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LTTP: Jak 2 (WTF happened)

Gevurztraminer

Gevurztraminer

Member
Dec 14, 2017
1,351
Also I'm the camp that likes jak2 the most. Even with the difficulty spikes, usually there are multiple missions at a time available, so you can do something else and come back. The edge smooths out really fast and the humor and goof comes out later.
 

Deleted member 51539

Banned
Jan 3, 2019
3,219
wrIH0mY.png
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,346
ckareset said:
This is the point Im making. When you talk about a game and it's notable for a lack of loading screens...how about the game itself?
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That IS a huge part of the game itself. Having a seamless open world vs having segmented levels fundamentally changes the experience of playing the game. Like you're saying "it's notable for lack of loading screens" as if that's like a simple thing and not something that was literally patented by the dev responsible for that accomplishment because it was such a new concept. The game controlled very well and was one of the tech marvels of the early PS2 era.
 
Nocturnowl

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,110
Continue and embrace the full awfulness of terrible whack a mole minigames, leery perv shots, the worst open world map layout of all time, a jarring difficulty curve, vehicles that control like shopping trolleys and break like glass, and so much more.
There are about two or three decent platforming segments within the quagmire, these are the only possible reason for any misguided love this game gets.
"sure it's all dreck but hey MAR'S TOMB GUYS"
 
bwahhhhh

bwahhhhh

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,162
there is a good game in there, with some actually cool levels and platforming

but it's destroyed by the awful overworld/city and traversal over it. and the races in it. and the time it takes to get from one side to the other to get to the next level. oh and they sacrificed vsync for this world and pedestrians and the game was constantly tearing on the PS2.
 
CrocoDuck

CrocoDuck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,287
What happened was that Naughty Dog released a masterpiece and people complained about it being too hard (yes, too hard), also that it's kind of like GTA (only way better).
 
Trace

Trace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,690
Canada
Jak 2 and 3 are better games than Jak 1 is. Yes the tone is different, no that doesn't make it worse.

IMO 2 is the best in the series, and collecting all the orbs to get cheats was great.
 
Orso

Orso

Member
Oct 28, 2017
631
I'd love to play through it again but I haven't got it in me to get through some of those escort missions. Don't suppose the hd version has checkpoints?

That hover-bike race through the city was the most lit thing naughty dog has done
 
Sonicfan059

Sonicfan059

Member
Mar 4, 2018
3,024
I remember being amazed at how good Jack II looked when it came out. Blew away Jack 1 and was one of the best looking PS2 games that year.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,346
CrocoDuck said:
What happened was that Naughty Dog released a masterpiece and people complained about it being too hard (yes, too hard), also that it's kind of like GTA (only way better).
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The thing about Jak 2 is that it's not a particularly difficult game, but there are quite a few encounters or set pieces that are poorly balanced. which when combined with an absolutely god awful checkpoint system, quite poor gun mechanics--->there's a reason many of the upgrades in Jak 3 auto target enemies and/or cause explosive damage, and middling driving mechanics, made for a frustrating experience.
 
StrappingYoungLance

StrappingYoungLance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,397
Melbourne, Australia
I don't even care about the tone shift, there's still plenty that was entertaining in the cutscenes. It's the horrible city and vehicle-based missions that I have to put up with when I just want to do some fucking platforming that make it a far worse game than its predecessor.
 

Deleted member 41520

Banned
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
There's a lot the game did right but I still can't believe how poorly the vehicles control

It's like controlling a kitten on ice

And the level design for on foot bits is nowhere near as tight as the first game, so the platforming feels half as fun
 
Brinksman

Brinksman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,182
Crossing Eden said:
That IS a huge part of the game itself. Having a seamless open world vs having segmented levels fundamentally changes the experience of playing the game. Like you're saying "it's notable for lack of loading screens" as if that's like a simple thing and not something that was literally patented by the dev responsible for that accomplishment because it was such a new concept. The game controlled very well and was one of the tech marvels of the early PS2 era.
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To be completely fair, a practically identical concept had already been implemented on PS1 in 1999's Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, and other variations existed prior e.g. King's Field. It's something which was weirdly glossed over in promotion and critical analysis alike until fairly recently, between the patent and the dubious Guinness World Record etc. I view it as important not to understate the quality of the execution in Jak & Daxter, but also feel it was rather overstated as a supposedly pioneering or revolutionary selling point.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,346
Aevum said:
To be completely fair, a practically identical concept had already been implemented on PS1 in 1999's Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, and other variations existed prior e.g. King's Field. It's something which was weirdly glossed over in promotion and critical analysis alike until fairly recently, between the patent and the dubious Guinness World Record etc. I view it as important not to understate the quality of the execution in Jak & Daxter, but also feel it was rather overstated as a supposedly pioneering or revolutionary selling point.
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Yes i'm well aware but it's another "Gears of War wasn't the first game to have a cover system" type of situation.
 
Niosai

Niosai

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,925
So Jak 2, while not a bad game by any stretch, is kind of a transition/growing pain-type game. In all honesty, I'd highly recommend skipping over it and going into Jak 3 because Jak 3 really instills that sense of wonder you got from the first game. It doesn't take itself so seriously, either. Definitely catch up on the lore from 2, though.
 
Electricb7

Electricb7

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,314
Tired of preaching this but Jak 2 gets way too much shit.
I can make a argument for Jak 2 being Naughty Dogs best game.

Just keep playing it. Its better than Jak 1 even though they are completely different and Jak 3 is far too easy and less impressive.
Jak 2>1>>3.

Niosai said:
So Jak 2, while not a bad game by any stretch, is kind of a transition/growing pain-type game. In all honesty, I'd highly recommend skipping over it and going into Jak 3 because Jak 3 really instills that sense of wonder you got from the first game. It doesn't take itself so seriously, either. Definitely catch up on the lore from 2, though.
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Jak 2 is too impressive to skip imo. Great level design and this is the first time we see Naughtydogs world building chops. Haven City feels like a cohesive place and an actual city that can actually exist. Fun characters, and glorious platforming with actual difficulty.
once you get the reflector blaster mod for the morph gun in Jak 3 the game is over. The bullets will find all the targets in any room.
 
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Robotoboy

Robotoboy

Member
Oct 7, 2018
1,071
Tulsa, OK
I liked Jak 2... All the Jak games have this uniqueness to them. J&D was your lovable collectathon platformer with cool lore... Jak 2 is the darker, edgier story about a slightly older Jak dealing the expanded lore from the first game - while keeping the lovable Daxter to keep things light hearted. Jak 3 is somewhere in between. then you have Jak X which is this awesome death race story, and then the Frontier game which is bad.
 

Wiped

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,096
Fuck off Jak 2 was one of my favourite games of all time. But then I was 14 when it came out after being 12/13 when i got Jak 1. I aged up with it.
 
RockmanBN

RockmanBN

Visited by Knack - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,982
Cornfields
2=1>3 imo. I enjoyed both a lot. I get the checkpoit issue in 2 but I don't really die anymore in the games.
 
spad3

spad3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,125
California
Jak 2 and Jak 3 are among Naughty Dog's pedestal of fucking amazing ass games. Not even kidding, Jak 2 and 3 are fucking phenomenal and are better than the first game in every way, shape, and form aside from the dock escape in the second one.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
Jak 2 having Big Tiddy furry waifu is honestly hilarious.

Literally everything with the setting and lore of the last two games is bad.

Liked the linear platforming sections a lot more than the platforming in Jak 1.

Jak 1 was reviewed much better than the last two so I'm confused by the "revisionist history" posts. Jak 1 was like an 89-91 while Jak 3 got an 83-84 IIRC.
 
sn00zer

sn00zer

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,093
I like it far more than the first. The open world is very weak, but the individual levels and characters are huge step up from 1. In the first game none of the side characters have any impact on anything and largely stand around to give you orbs. The characters in Jak 2 had motivations and the character relationships changed in interesting ways.

I just felt like Jak 2 made thing feel like they mattered. I love it and it's still one of my favorite games
 
SNRUB

SNRUB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,009
New Jersey
I own the PS3 collection and the Precursor Legacy is the only game of the bunch that I completed. It's just so much fun compared to what had followed.

The sequel is a piece of shit and I never did bother with the third game.
 
Maffis

Maffis

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,314
I fucking love Jak 2 and 3. Jak 1 was good but the change to the sequels were amazing. I hope one day they will make a Jak 4.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
sn00zer said:
I like it far more than the first. The open world is very weak, but the individual levels and characters are huge step up from 1. In the first game none of the side characters have any impact on anything and largely stand around to give you orbs. The characters in Jak 2 had motivations and the character relationships changed in interesting ways.

I just felt like Jak 2 made thing feel like they mattered. I love it and it's still one of my favorite games
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... The characters are real bad in Jak 2.

The fact that Daxter wants to fuck an elf with huge, heaving breasts sums up most of the story/lore/setting.
 

dose

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,462
I played through Jak II not so long ago and it's a poor game compared to the first one. There is far too much travelling to get to the next mission.
 
vypek

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,552
There are so many shitty designs and stupid crap in Jak 2. Maybe if I played it when it first released I would have liked it. But I played it in the collection and I did not enjoy it at all. For the type of game it was, Jak 3 was executed better.

Jak 2 city design and vehicle use was terrible.
 
Brinksman

Brinksman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,182
Robotoboy said:
Eh, Deadlocked was still SUPER goofy.
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RockmanBN said:
Deadlocked was jokes almost all the time. Ratchet 1 had more serious moments than this.
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Crossing Eden said:
It was still an example of a game trying to appeal to the edge of the era.
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There's a conversation with Ratchet designer Mike Stout which addresses these topics in some depth:



Mike Stout said:
This game, though, the story's a lot more serious than the other games are, and that was a response to the success of the Jak games, after they had gone more serious. Like, you know how Jak, the first thing he says in Jak II, like the first words that character ever says is "I'm gonna kill Praxis!" and he gets his hardcore goatee? You know what happened in between Jak 1 and Jak II? Grand Theft Auto 3. And that game was more successful than any game had ever been in the history of games, pretty much, right? So, everyone was thinking, "oh my god, we're all making mascot platformer games – what are we gonna do?" Right? Overnight. It was really scary.
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Mike Stout said:
... the Jak games always beat us every year. Jak 1 did not sell very well, and then they made the change, and than Jak II and Jak 3 sold better than Ratchet 2 and Ratchet 3. Not by a ton, but they did outsell us. And so, we had all done three Ratchet games at that point, we were all ready to try something different, so we thought we'd try something different on the story front also, which is one of the reasons why it's not named Ratchet & Clank: Something About Butts.

Ratchet: Deadlocked (or Gladiator in the UK), changing the way the title was structured, changing the format, making Clank an NPC – like all of those things were, we wanted to try something different, because we'd spent four years trying to make Ratchet 3, and in the process we made Ratchet 2 and Ratchet 1, right? So a lot of us had been doing it for a long time, so we just really wanted to try something different. It wasn't really that we thought it would sell better. It was just that we thought, you know, this had a good response from gamers when Jak did it, so maybe we could do something similar.

We didn't really want to make it dark - you know? Like that's not very Ratchet & Clank. We just wanted it to be a serious story with high stakes.
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Rockodile

Rockodile

Member
Dec 7, 2018
1,151
I recently platniumed the PS4 version of Jak & Daxter and had a blast. Jak 2, on the contrary, has been a miserable experience so far. It has got to have the fucking worst open worlds I have ever traversed, especially with those vehicles. That said, yes, there are some great platforming sections, but they don't make up for the utter shitshow that is Haven City.
 
Sagroth

Sagroth

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,838
I tried really hard to like Jak 2 after loving the first game, but the difficulty was ridiculous in some spots, the city was a chore to traverse (it was impossible to get around without getting the authorities all up in your shit), and the whole thing was a huge tonal shift. I rather hated the game in the end.
 
AniHawk

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,162
jsnepo said:
So I never got to play much of the three PS2 first party mascot platformers except for the first Sly game. It was only last week that I finished the first R&C game and currently going through J&D. I really love J&D so far. The egg collecting is fun and reminds me so much of Banjo and Kazooie. Anyway I was curious to see what Jak 2 and heard it was kind of an open world game and decided to play it along J&D but my God. What happened? It's tonally different. Jak speaks now and the firat thing I heard him say is he is going to kill. I played a few missions and I am disappointed. None of the charm of the first game is here. Should I continue? Am I going to be disappointed throughout the game?
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i was really into finding out what happened back then, and as a result a lot of the information was retained because i hate this stupid game so fucking much.

it was essentially the goal of naughty dog to make a platformer with a story. the example they used was that they felt there wasn't any motivation to complete super mario 64 because all the player was going to get at the end was a cake.

the level design and the presentation essentially speaks for itself. the creators were embarrassed of the genre they created for the first game and believed they were better than their contemporaries (they weren't) in that they found the 'missing ingredient' to finally make platformers engaging (they didn't).
 
sn00zer

sn00zer

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,093
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
... The characters are real bad in Jak 2.

The fact that Daxter wants to fuck an elf with huge, heaving breasts sums up most of the story/lore/setting.
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That definitely doesn't sum it up. Daxter was created when Van Wilder was cool. The time jump was very exciting at the time. Not many kids franchises nuke their old world and grow up with their audience. I was 14 at the time and it came out just the perfect time for me as it felt like the first franchise that aged with me.
 
qaopjlll

qaopjlll

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
Jason Rubin hit his head and decided to make a game to satiate his inner teen angst. Thankfully it's still an amazing game with tons of awesome platforming gameplay, you just have to look past the edgy facade.
 
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