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Larrikin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,740
My friend and I have recently made a deal to finish each other's #1 favourite games. His was Metroid Prime and so I just spent my Christmas holiday soldiering through that.

Some disclaimers: Firstly I am not a fan of ambiguity. I don't like being lost or having no direction. I cannot stand a game wasting my time. Metroid style games infuriate me for this reason. The only game in this genre I'd completed before was Headlander, and I loved that mostly for the relatively clear direction while still being able to explore should I choose and find secrets.

Secondly, I'm playing the Trilogy version on the Wii so expect complaints about controls. Thirdly, I played on the 'Normal mode' which I have since learned is actually an 'easy' mode made for the Trilogy version. I was unaware.

--------
The complaints that are almost certainly my own fault:
This was not the first time I had attempted to play Metroid Prime but it was the first serious attempt I'd given at finishing it. (previously having only just gotten Charge Beam before putting the game away). My biggest initial gripe is how clumsy the controls feel. You get used to it, and by the end of the game I had few problems but it never ever feels right. It made Samus feel more like a puppet I was handling via marionette rather than actually controlling a character. This is not the games fault however, and while it did exacerbate my frustration it was not the cause of it.

I also could not stand the slow meander whenever you get a new item and finding all the areas that it 'unlocks' and hoping that it's actually progress rather than another missile expansion. 5-10 minutes apiece going to each new place is just so much wasted time. But that's purely a preference thing and I get that fans love that stuff.

Complaints that are kinda my fault but the game is also at fault:
Primarily I felt the game lacked tension. This is very likely due to playing on the "Normal" mode, the enemies did practically no damage, and in turn I also did practically no damage so every fight is more a battle of attrition. Learning the enemy patterns is simple (for the most part every boss only had one or two that were recycled endlessly) and this is only further amplified by the lack of damage on all parties making fights feel tedious, and the sense of relief coming from a feeling of "finally this bit is over" rather than actual relief of tension from an intimidating scenario. Omega Pirate, Meta-Ridley and the final boss are particularly bad with only really having 2-3 attacks per form and incredibly predictable patterns. Dishonorable mention to Meta-Ridley's ground form that has "1/5" the amount of HP and yet takes several times the number of hits. Cheap and transparent artificial difficulty.

While the control issues stemming from the wii version are plentiful they are not the only ones. The grapple beam is absolutely borked with several grapple points simply not working except for very specific angles, and having to do multiple grapples in a row is a chore. I had my friend (a Metroid veteran) play these sections as well to confirm that there is definitely something fucky with how grappling works in some sections. Lock-on targeting also has several issues with locks sometimes disengaging for no discernible reason or even just not activating at all despite looking directly at the enemy. Switching beams and visors is nowhere near as snappy as it needs to be considering the types of problems the game throws at you (again, this is a Wii problem).

Complaints that are absolutely the game's fault:
Many enemies don't feel like obstacles to overcome but more nuisances to fill in the gaps. Fission Metroids, Jelzaps and Chozo Ghosts are the most egregious of these types of enemies, the latter of which is one of the laziest enemies in the game. There is a complete lack of threat with the Chozo Ghosts. They dim the lights which is more annoying than anything else and to defeat them you simply have to wait for them to stop zipping around while they fire single shots that will miss more often than not, and are beyond simple to dodge otherwise. Couple this with having them appear in every other room in the Ruins and it just reeks of careless design.

Many of the weapon upgrades seemed superfluous, particularly the Wave/Ice/Plasma upgrades. I found myself trying to use them against enemies and bosses and found they were near-useless in any combat scenario. Bosses seemed to take almost no significant damage from them, and considering the amount of resources it uses it was simply not worth it and I found myself ignoring them entirely.

Many times I found myself stuck on geometry as well which was especially annoying in boss fights. The entire water section on the Tallon Overworld was a nightmare (mostly due to the aforementioned Jelzaps) and I was able to get all the way deep into the area (thinking that you'd be rewarded with Gravity Suit at the end so that you could immediately see how useful it was) before the game politely informed me that the Gravity suit was not here, and only then did it inform me it was all the way back in Phendrana Drifts. That is not a fun trek and I don't know if I just got unlucky but that was a total ragequit moment. Fuck that.

Things I loved:
Despite all of the above, I had a really good time with Metroid Prime for the most part. Enough to be open to continuing the trilogy and preparing for Prime 4 on the Switch as I become more familiar with the conventions of Metroid games and less frustrated by my perceived flaws in their fundamental design philosophy. I really loved some of the combat encounters, particularly anything and everything to do with the Space Pirates (with one exception mentioned above) and felt they were used to great effect and proper threats. Satisfying to overcome and resulted in a couple of close calls even on the very watered-down difficulty.

I absolutely adore the Scan mechanic, allowing the player to not only gain a knowledge of the world built but also glimpses of things to come, motivations for the bad guys, in-game context for why and when the difficulty is ramping up. Just lots of really good stuff here and something I'm eager to explore again in future entries if it stays. Something I'd love to see used in more games.

Things I liked:
Contrary to popular opinion I didn't find the music to be anything special but it wasn't bad. It just didn't hit the notes the same way for me. Pleasant enough though and suited the areas. I felt that the combat was decent when the enemy design was on point, and there were some neat puzzles to solve. Nothing mindblowing but it was competent.

Conclusion:
A game with many flaws. A halfway decent FPS, a halfway decent puzzle-platformer, great world-building but poor design choices result in a middling experience for me and definitely not a game that is turning me around on the wonders of exploration and Metroidvania/Adventure-Platformers in general.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,063
Melbourne, Australia
I don't like being lost or having no direction.
Props for finishing the game in spite of this. Hopefully Prime 2 will go smoother for you now that you're used to Metroid's charms.

A halfway decent FPS
It's better to think of the Prime games as First Person Adventures rather than Shooters, because combat is largely not the focus of the game. Most of the encounters are more about learning enemy patterns than what you'd do in a traditional FPS.
 

TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
I also don't like being lost and having no direction.

That said, I have been regretful about never having finished this or either of its sequels. I bought the first one cheap, but couldn't get into it and moved on, and probably bought the second alongside it. Got the third when it came out, paying full price, but never got to it either.
 

Duffking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,708
I played it fairly recently for the first time too. I generally liked it, but I had a few issues:

Of the 4 "real" areas in the game, only 2 actually felt properly "metroidy" to me - Tallon Overworld and Phendrana Drifts. Magmoor Caverns felt a bit like if the 2D games just had a giant, linear line shaped sequence of rooms stretching from one end of the map to the other. It felt like it was just there to provide a means of getting from one place in Tallon to another in Phendrana most of the time rather than being especially interesting in its own right, bar a few late pickups. Which is fair enough, honestly, but it takes up like 25% of the map on its own. The Phazon mines just seemed like a very linear area that was full of rather dull combat. And from what I remember on at least one occasion it makes you walk all the way back out to get something elsewhere, then all the way back again shortly after. Backtracking is a staple of metroid, but usually there's something new and interesting or a new route... this was just do the same stuff you already did, exactly as you did it. Thankfully you spend most of your time in the former two areas.

A lot of the bosses really bored me. I felt like after the Flaahgra a lot of them were just really tedious bullet sponges that offered next to no actual threat to me. I liked the design in general but they all just took so fucking long to kill. I almost fell asleep fighting Thardus.

The combat really began to grate toward the end of the game. I got a bit tired of switching beams so frequently for different coloured enemies. I imagine some people really enjoy that, and I do enjoy specialising weapon choices normally, but it felt a bit cumbersome and I'd have preferred it if you just did a damage boost or gained some kind of unique advantage by using the right beam rather than just making stuff nigh invincible.

My experience just kind of soured a bit toward the end. I liked it a lot for the first 75% and really had to force myself to finish it. I'd probably rate it lower than any of the 2D Metroids I've played (not played the original or 2).
 

Christine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
288
Gone
The entire water section on the Tallon Overworld was a nightmare (mostly due to the aforementioned Jelzaps) and I was able to get all the way deep into the area (thinking that you'd be rewarded with Gravity Suit at the end so that you could immediately see how useful it was) before the game politely informed me that the Gravity suit was not here, and only then did it inform me it was all the way back in Phendrana Drifts. That is not a fun trek and I don't know if I just got unlucky but that was a total ragequit moment. Fuck that.

This is the single most brilliant part of the game's pathing design. It is an entirely optional detour but it lures practically everyone inside so as not to miss the experience.
 

JCal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,352
Los Alfheim
Fair review. Definitely see why you'd find the game just okay. Metroid is all about exploring every nook and cranny.

What game is your friend playing? =)
 
OP
OP
Larrikin

Larrikin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,740
This is the single most brilliant part of the game's pathing design. It is an entirely optional detour but it lures practically everyone inside so as not to miss the experience.
But its then later required to do? How is it acceptable design (let alone brilliant) to allow the player to make a pointless, misleading 20+ minute round trip that is purposefully frustrating to play?

What game is your friend playing? =)
The Most Excellent Game Psychonauts.
 

bottledfox

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,576
When my friend played through Metroid Prime on the Wii, he had complaints about needless backtracking and long boss battles and the fucking Artifact quest at the end. It took him over 20 hours to beat the game.

Now, from my perspective, Metroid Prime is more respectful of players' time than nearly every other 3D action-adventure game. Compare with the GC Zelda games and it's pretty evident to me which game has less filler content, empty space, and cutscenes. Yes, Metroid Prime makes up for that somewhat by making navigation more of a challenge, but it's a game that becomes gradually less obtuse upon replay, until you're like me and you're beating the whole thing in under 3 hours. Meanwhile, the last time I tried to replay TP, I didn't even get halfway through the game because I can't skip through the filler with my superior knowledge of the landscape or anything like that.

I'm not saying Metroid Prime is a perfect game, because it definitely isn't. I'm just of the mind that it's still best-in-class for its genre.
 

honavery

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,369
Phoenix, AZ
Metroid Prime 2 maps make Metroid Prime 1 maps look very simple. If u don't like being lost....
The original normal difficulty was quite hard imo. I was never able to beat it on GameCube. Normal on Wii I beat no problem though.

Anyways possibly my favorite game of all time. Fair review, shame it didn't totally click for you.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Can't you just ignore the Chozo ghosts after your first encounters in an area with them? That's what I did. That music is so stressful though.
 

Treasure Silvergun

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 4, 2017
2,206
Hmmm. I don't think I can have a discussion here. Because if this is your premise:

I don't like being lost or having no direction. I cannot stand a game wasting my time. Metroid style games infuriate me for this reason.

then there's no way you can understand why a lot of people find the game outstanding. Metroid Prime never "wastes your time". The time you spend following a red herring or finding a minor reward is time spent familiarizing with the environment and learning the planet's amazing design. Having no direction is the point. Learning and finding your way forward, paying attention to detail and using your memory, is what the game is about. Combat isn't the point. "Halfway decent FPS" is probably even more that what Metroid Prime was ever meant to be, and it's how it was always seen even when it came out. But using the term "FPS" here is misleading. The game isn't about shooting finesse. Likewise, it isn't about "puzzle platforming". Platforming in MP is particularly lenient because it's not about precise jumping. So, you're judging the game by comparing it to something it has little in common with. Which was a common mistake even in 2001, and even "professionals" back then were more worried finding a way to file the game into a precise category and compare it to something else (ie: Halo), than they were understanding what the game is about and why it's great.

In the end, if you think MP "wastes your time", I think you've missed the point. If you like more linear experiences, drop the series now. You'll hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate Prime 2. Seriously, you will. Don't even bother.
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
Metroid Prime focus isn't combat, it is about exploring; finding new stuff, how to transverse the map.. You see those missile expansions or energy tank behind something you can't destroy right now. Well, get a new power-up later and return to that place for get it.

Like others have said, Metroid Prime isn't a First Person Shooter. Don't expect the games to have the best shooting mechanics. They do the job just fine for me.

As for controls, I have always found the Wii Controller made the game better with the aiming. Certainly, compared to the original Gamecube version, the Wii Controller scheme is way better.
 

RoboitoAM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,117
The title theme alone puts it in the best of Metroid music Btw.

Also thanks a lot, I want to replay them on Wii U again. Did anybody ever finish that Dolphin emulator mouse and keyboard hack?
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,939
fucking Artifact quest at the end.
The thing about this is that if you're even remotely exploring the environments to a decent degree as you play, you're going to have a good amount of the artefacts before the end anyway.

I find this element of the game has been massively exaggerated over time, it's not like the game suddenly springs it on you at the end and if you've visited the temple it makes it clear you should be collecting them.
 

Mr Jones

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,747
I kind of agree with your assessment. And I'll say this:
In the end, if you think MP "wastes your time", I think you've missed the point. If you like more linear experiences, drop the series now. You'll hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate Prime 2. Seriously, you will. Don't even bother.

Follow this man's advice. You will NOT like Prime 2.
 

Christine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
288
Gone
But its then later required to do? How is it acceptable design (let alone brilliant) to allow the player to make a pointless, misleading 20+ minute round trip that is purposefully frustrating to play?

When you go back the entire experience is different. Different visuals, different audio design, different jump mechanics. They want you to experience both and the way they nudge you into doing it without forcing it is pure genius. It would have been very easy to gate your progress so that you had to go to the bottom of the crashed frigate to open the way to the GS, but they didn't do that at all. It's one of the most impressive things I've ever seen a video game do, I love it so much.

It's not optional...

I think you're misunderstanding, you do have to go through the frigate but you don't have to enter the frigate before getting the GS.
 
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RoboitoAM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,117
The thing about this is that if you're even remotely exploring the environments to a decent degree as you play, you're going to have a good amount of the artefacts before the end anyway.

I find this element of the game has been massively exaggerated over time, it's not like the game suddenly springs it on you at the end and if you've visited the temple it makes it clear you should be collecting them.
Yeah. If anything, the complaint is more about Prime 2 and the 7 or 9 keys or whatever at end game.
 

bottledfox

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,576
The thing about this is that if you're even remotely exploring the environments to a decent degree as you play, you're going to have a good amount of the artefacts before the end anyway.

I find this element of the game has been massively exaggerated over time, it's not like the game suddenly springs it on you at the end and if you've visited the temple it makes it clear you should be collecting them.

That's more or less what I told him. It didn't trouble me much at all. Prime 2's fetch quest is an order of magnitude worse.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
As others have said, Metroid isn't meant to be all that tough by means of random enemies that patrol the areas. It's more about world exploration, atmosphere, and plenty of backtracking to find how best your new abilities can unearth parts of old zones.

Your Gravity Suit and Chozo Ghost points hit home with me in a big way, however, considering I had those same grievances when I first completed the game, just over a year ago. That whole underwater platforming part was a tedious slog without the Gravity Suit, and the ghosts are a tremendous waste of everyone's time.

I'm kind of worried for you, if you plan to play Prime 2. It introduces parallel versions of its areas for the player to switch back and forth from, only the layouts of the maps are more convoluted, and it can be hard to keep track of what you've got to do to progress next. The entire game is like that, and it's actually one of my least favorites, as a result. Prime 3 is good, and it's more linear than 1, so you may end up really enjoying it.

Of the 4 "real" areas in the game, only 2 actually felt properly "metroidy" to me - Tallon Overworld and Phendrana Drifts. Magmoor Caverns felt a bit like if the 2D games just had a giant, linear line shaped sequence of rooms stretching from one end of the map to the other. It felt like it was just there to provide a means of getting from one place in Tallon to another in Phendrana most of the time rather than being especially interesting in its own right, bar a few late pickups. Which is fair enough, honestly, but it takes up like 25% of the map on its own. The Phazon mines just seemed like a very linear area that was full of rather dull combat. And from what I remember on at least one occasion it makes you walk all the way back out to get something elsewhere, then all the way back again shortly after. Backtracking is a staple of metroid, but usually there's something new and interesting or a new route... this was just do the same stuff you already did, exactly as you did it. Thankfully you spend most of your time in the former two areas.
You neglected to mention the Chozo Ruins. One of the coolest areas in the game, imo.
 

K' Dash

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
4,156
OP will not finish Echoes, I guarantee it.

Shame cause it is the best Prime.

Also, where the fuck is my Prime trilogy for Switch, Nintendo?
 
Dec 2, 2017
3,435
I've been trying to finish this game since the day Trilogy hit Wii U. Metroid has been one of my favourite series over the years and I've finished plenty of (2D) metroidvanias, but this one really does get kinda boring.

It's really hard to just find a hint for where you need to go next sometimes without wading through let's plays on youtube or something. Scanning everything everywhere all the time gets tedious as well. Hopefully one day I'll be able to get back into it.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
"Normal" difficulty in the trilogy version is the easy difficulty from the original game. Retro fucked up when naming the actual normal difficulty "Veteran".
 
OP
OP
Larrikin

Larrikin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,740
When you go back the entire experience is different. Different visuals, different audio design, different jump mechanics. They want you to experience both and the way they nudge you into doing it without forcing it is pure genius. It would have been very easy to gate your progress so that you had to go to the bottom of the crashed frigate to open the way to the GS, but they didn't do that at all. It's one of the most impressive things I've ever seen a video game do, I love it so much..
...... are you sure? I literally just played it and there are no differences to the audio or visuals. Are you thinking of a different game or maybe is this something that was exclusive to the GC version? None of what you are saying sounds remotely familiar.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,304
I've heard lots of things to describe Metroid Prime.... "a game with many flaws".... that's a first.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,865
Metroid Prime Trilogy is not the definitive version to play. metroid prime 1&2 are meant to be played with a controller SO much. That's why controls don't feel right on the wii.

I got a trilogy copy for myself then sold it again after discovering how much it is night and day compared to the GameCube version
 

Christine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
288
Gone
...... are you sure? I literally just played it and there are no differences to the audio or visuals. Are you thinking of a different game or maybe is this something that was exclusive to the GC version? None of what you are saying sounds remotely familiar.

Yes, I'm absolutely certain. The Gravity suit changes the underwater visuals dramatically and this is even described in-game as an improvement to your visor.
 

Deleted member 15125

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
417
Okay, one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone dismisses criticism of Metroid Prime's combat by saying, "Oh, it's not really an FPS but rather a first person adventure." I'm sorry, but Metroid Prime has a lot of combat, especially in the Talon Mines. If someone thinks that the combat is super boring, then they're not going to just get over and "think about the game differently." It's not Myst. Doesn't the game even lock you into rooms occasionally and force you to fight the enemies? Combat is a big part of the game.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,304
Okay, one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone dismisses criticism of Metroid Prime's combat by saying, "Oh, it's not really an FPS but rather a first person adventure." I'm sorry, but Metroid Prime has a lot of combat, especially in the Talon Mines. If someone thinks that the combat is super boring, then they're not going to just get over and "think about the game differently." It's not Myst. Doesn't the game even lock you into rooms occasionally and force you to fight the enemies? Combat is a big part of the game.
Combat is far from the focus of the game though. It works for the type of game Prime is.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
Metroid's always been the case of leaving it up to the player whether they want to go around killing everything or just running past everything because you don't want to risk the loss of health or time. You kind of treat the Chozo Ghosts that way. There are fights where they really force you to disperse them in a few cases, but in the latter cases where they just roam around the Ruins you can just run past them. I could see it being annoying if you thought you had to deal with them every time.

This game is the GOAT for me. It's been too long since i played it too (2012, i want to think).
 

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,596
I get the impression you're not going to be a fan of Prime 2 at all. It basically takes all your complaints and issues and expands on them.

In order to compensate for the power of non-power beam weapons they both added a questionable ammo system and made enemies damage sponges. Those Chozo Ghosts that take forever to kill? Yeah, that's like every other enemy in Prime 2 once you get the beam upgrades.

And the game is also incredibly labyrinthine. It makes Prime 1 look like a linear romp. The backtracking is mostly better, but the world itself is much more difficult to navigate.

Overall I love the complexity of Prime 2's world, the atmosphere, and the fantastic bosses. Dark Aether is actually pretty great apart from the lack of visual variety. The whole design of the world is uncomfortable, then you add in the environmental damage you take and it just becomes a place that you legitimately do not want to be. But the dark world actually makes up a relatively small portion of the game world, it's not 1:1 with the much larger light world. And once you get the dark suit (pretty early in the game) the damage is basically negligible, but you still take it so you still have that fear of staying out of the safe zones. And the late game upgrades are some of the most liberating and powerful feeling in the trilogy.
 

dead souls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,317
I concur with everyone telling OP to skip Prime 2, I sure wish I had. What a frustrating game. Stick with Prime 1 and 3.
 

Christine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
288
Gone
That whole underwater platforming part was a tedious slog without the Gravity Suit

This is true. To be clear, I'm not saying that you and the OP are wrong to dislike it. It's a very divisive and extreme design element. If the subsequent payoff of revisiting the area with enhanced mobility and awareness doesn't transform your frustration into satisfaction, you might not find it rewarding. The one thing you can't do is think of it as an oversight or as sloppy design or a mistake. It's a deliberately crafted psychological machine composed of multiple parts. It uses both planting and recency bias to good effect, creating a consistent emergent play narrative for one of the few real choices you have. Unless you sequence break it, Prime is a far more linear game than most people acknowledge. Sure, you can do a lot of wandering around not knowing what to do in places you've already been, but for the most part everything is gated behind a route through the weapon and traversal powers that open new paths. The game save file size was one of the tiniest on Gamecube, because literally all it stores is A) What pickups do you have B) Which save station are you at C) Uh I forget exactly how many but something like 4 to 6 binary world triggers that recorded whether or not you'd walked over a certain line. The game world is largely static and only your capabilities with respect to it change.

It might help if I break it down in detail. Once you get through the Chozo Hall of the Elders you go into a room called Reflecting Pool. This has three doors, two of which are missile doors and the third is an ice beam door. One of the missile doors has a small room containing the ice beam. A small note here is that to get back out of the room you have to equip the ice beam, which is a normal priming pattern that you've already experienced with the wave beam. The second missile door contains a room with a save station and a further path leading ultimately to a cliff overlooking the frigate entrance. You've probably already looked across the lake at this area, but if you tried to go through the water to get there you'll have found it inaccessible, so this looks like progress. If they'd left it at that, it might have worked well enough but the head games don't end there. You JUST got that ice beam so you're probably going to want to use it on the door. You might even backtrack to it rather than jumping down the cliff, because you know you can't get back up.

The ice door leads to an elevator taking you to a dead end. It's a new, distinct part of Tallon overworld that you obviously haven't seen before and you can tell that there's more to it but you're blocked by a set of bars that can only be opened from the other side with a spinner. When that's open this becomes the short route around the frigate but you don't know that yet. The purpose now is to make you doubt the ice beam as the path to progress and to forget about the ice door that you saw in the room where you got the thermal visor as well as the ice door you saw after using the spider ball to exit Thardus' cage. It almost always works. You chose to go into the frigate. You chose to open all those normal beam doors and go all the way to the bottom.

Here's the real question. Why'd you choose to jump back out? If you reset the console you'll almost certainly be at Save Station 3 in Chozo Ruins East, but I've never heard of anyone doing that.
 

Yoshimitsu126

The Fallen
Nov 11, 2017
14,709
United States
You should probably replay it in veteran if you want a tougher experience. Hard is pretty dumb though. It just makes enemies take more hits and some boss battles (adult Sheegoth...) very boring weapon sponges. However, Meta Ridley was super fun in Hard.

Yeah I got baited into the frigate too. The funny thing is, I didn't really understand why the doors of the are looked so familiar until my second playthrough of the game. And at least the music in the water section sounded nice!

Also I echo other's opinion in skipping Prime 2 if you don't like getting lost. I love Prime 1 for its back tracking and even I didn't like Prime 2 for a very long time.
 

Papaya

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,475
California
Really cool to hear your opinion.

Metroid Prime 1 and 2 are my favorites games of all time. You will hate 2, absolutely. Skip and go to 3. You may like that more.
 
OP
OP
Larrikin

Larrikin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,740
Can't you just ignore the Chozo ghosts after your first encounters in an area with them? That's what I did. That music is so stressful though.
That's kind of another problem unto itself. You can ignore them, but then why bother with the darkening the room, why bother with the scary music? It's at odds with its own design choices. You can't present them as this "holy crap what is this" moment and then also have them be some of the least important enemies in the game. The only "threat" they pose is that they darken the room... which is just a nuisance since you're mostly skipping the rooms with them.

Metroid Prime focus isn't combat
*snip*
Don't expect the games to have the best shooting mechanics.
*snip*
Certainly, compared to the original Gamecube version, the Wii Controller scheme is way better.
To address these points, you can't just say 'that's not the focus of the game' to excuse why a significant portion of the game isn't interesting or fun? It's the same way that people criticize Sonic games for being 'too fast and uncontrollable'. Yes, they're "playing it wrong" because going fast isn't the focus of the game, it's the exploration and memorisation of levels, but that doesn't mean that the initial complaint isn't valid and something that could be greatly improved through better design.

The metroid games have a habit of combining the tools for combat and exploration. It's a smart play and it allows for some neat level design and secrets, but in other games in the genre the combat doesn't have to suffer just because "thats not the focus". Almost all of the enemies in Super Metroid pose some form of significant threat or obstacle to overcome. Frankly, an enemy shouldn't be included unless it creates interesting problems for the player to solve. They should never be thrown in because 'this room needs something to stop it being a big empty room'.

I cannot agree on the wii controls being better. Swapping visors/beams is simply too cumbersome and imprecise. Anything is an improvement.

Enemies are never an issue in any metroid, it's usually only bosses that are any challenge
Samus is a badass after all
You should probably replay it in veteran if you want a tougher experience. Hard is pretty dumb though. It just makes enemies take more hits and some boss battles (adult Sheegoth...) very boring weapon sponges. However, Meta Ridley was super fun in Hard.

I believe Yoshi will solve Neptonic's thing. If I do decide to play Echoes it'll be on Veteran. Samus doesn't feel like a badass on lower difficulties since you do less damage. That being said, It's not so much that the enemies need to all be doing so much damage or be complex and uniquely special encounters, but that they need to pose problems to solve (as stated above). For example, the spikey dudes that attach to surfaces. The flowers that shoot fire. The swarms of hornets, the reaper vines, the gas bomb things, every space pirate. These are all interesting problems to solve, even if they aren't the most threatening fights. They create a space that has at least a sense of danger. They make the planet feel alive and dangerous. Even non-enemy obstacles like lava/phazon pools create this. But many enemies in Prime fail at this, only posing a superficial threat or creating a problem that isn't interesting to overcome e.g infinite fission metroids causing frequent and unavoidable platforming falls and Jelzaps gravity-ing you off of platforms in the water areas. They only serve to slow you down in ways that aren't really a solvable problem, it just makes you waste time.

I just checked a longplay of the trilogy version. It does. There's a major "fog" effect restricting how far you can see until you get the upgrade.
I honestly couldn't notice. Link/timestamps?

C) Uh I forget exactly how many but something like 4 to 6 binary world triggers

It might help if I break it down in detail.
*snip*
Here's the real question. Why'd you choose to jump back out? If you reset the console you'll almost certainly be at Save Station 3 in Chozo Ruins East, but I've never heard of anyone doing that.
To each section:

1. Probably your map progress?

2. I don't mean to be reductive but it essentially boils down to "It subverts expectations and therefore is clever". I have so many problems with that line of thinking. It seems like such reverse engineering of "this must be good, how can I explain it". But your post fails to get at the heart of things. Why, is all of that, a good thing? You say it's a head game and psychological manipulation but what part of that makes it good. How does it enhance the player experience? In any way?

3. Because I genuinely believed that at some point the game would've given me a reason to go down there? Maybe I'd missed something? Maybe something happens on the way out? Maybe something changes? The game can't be that poorly designed to allow such a massive and pointless waste of time right?
 

AndreGX

GameXplain
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
1,815
San Francisco
Metroid Prime Trilogy is not the definitive version to play. metroid prime 1&2 are meant to be played with a controller SO much. That's why controls don't feel right on the wii.

I got a trilogy copy for myself then sold it again after discovering how much it is night and day compared to the GameCube version

So much this. Metroid Prime was designed entirely around the GameCube controller. It just didn't feel right when with the pointer controls and it does change the experience in ways not originally envisioned.

Plus the missing water ripple effects bug me way more than it should.
 
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Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,813
Brazil
You don't need to be so apologetic just because you didn't like popular game that much, OP.

Also played the Trilogy version on normal, which is meant to be easy. Even so, i got a hard time with Omega Pirate.

Anyway, never played the GC version and the motion controls feels perfect imo.
 

NuclearCake

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,867
The Chozo Ghosts become completely trivial with super missiles you can just blast them with one and they are pretty much dead at that point. I agree with some here as well, the Trilogy version is not the definitive version of the game. The motion controls are the definition of tacked on and fly in the face of how Prime and Prime 2 were meant to be played. You can also get 11/12 Chozo artifact before you hit the end point if you just spend a decent amount of time exploring and once you know where they are they become a none issue. Prime 2 is where this type of fetch quest gets annoying because they withheld you from finding them until the very end of the game. OP i just think these types of games are not for you if you think the game wastes your time.