LTTP: XCOM 2: This is almost not fair

[AnansiThePersona]

I started playing XCOM 2 (Ironman mode on Veteran) a week ago after it came out on PS+ and damn is this game fucking hard. I mean....I played the first XCOM reboot and beat it so I thought I knew what I was getting myself into. It's so fucking frustrating too. Like... I just reached the point where those poison dudes in the robot suits showed up and they launched a grenade that pushed my shit in and then the red mecha robot and the shieldtrooper get dropped in during the same mission. Jesus Christ and I just finally got the 3rd tier of armor and the rookies I send out to gain experience drop like flies. In my last mission almost all my good dudes got smoked and I only have a few dudes left.

I'm trying my fucking hardest to stop the Avatar Project but goddamn it between doing that and the Dark Events which pretty much guarantee 2 bad things are gonna happen to you because fuck you the aliens are playing for keeps goddamn.

And I'm 3 pips away from the Avatar Project being completed and my dudes keep dying and the ones I need to level are dying too.

God this is so fucking hard I'm going to have to take a break from this. I finally got Dark Souls 3 so I'm playing that instead.

Damn. What was y'alls experience with XCOM 2? Did y'all hate it as much as I did?

 

[-J-]

Yup, sounds like XCOM. Haven't fired it up yet but I absolutely loved the first one. Not messing around with Ironman mode though. aintnobodygottimeforthat.gif

 

[5taquitos]

that pushed my shit in

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Just jumping in here to say that I absolutely HATE this phrase (it's very homophobic fyi), and it was the worst part of Battlefield 3.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I finished it recently and yes, this game is much harder than the first one. Once you expand your team size, it helps a lot. It's still fucking hard though.

Edit : I didn't play Iron Man mode. Screw that.

 

[Masterspeed]

I love Xcom 2. My problem is that I've had it since launch, played 100+ hours and yet to beat it. I have the habit of restarting the game over and over again just to get it perfect.

 

[Grimsen]

Shoulda played on normal, OP.

I love XCOM 2. The expansion is even better.

 

[DocSeuss]

hahaha, only 3 pips away? I routinely got up to the end and fought my way back down. Don't worry about it too much. If you have War of the Chosen (and you should; XCOM 2 sucks without it), you can do faction missions to reduce avatar progress. Also, chill on the main story quests--they make things harder, so if you take 'em slow, you'll be okay.

 

[Deleted member 35011]

I loved XCOM2, but then again I was one of those psychopaths that played Long War for EW on Ironman Impossible so there must be something deeply wrong with me.

I didn't find the game too hard, especially with WotC installed since they balance up a lot of things.

Only mission I found unfairly hard is actually the first one you do if you don't have the tutorial enabled, Gatecrasher. That one is literally down to luck in higher difficulties.

 

[Roytheone]

XCOM 2 is great. It fixes a lot of the issues of the first one (thank God for target preview) and war of the chosen makes it even better. However I would never play Ironman in my first run and would advise to use savescumming to learn how stuff like concealment works. Especially with the addon there are so many systems to learn.

 

[Zocano]

XCOM 2 has a completely different flow of combat than Enemy Unknown (most of the time). You gotta be hyper aggressive while also manipulating the map so you don't trigger too many enemies at a time.

I will just say I've played a lot of XCOM 2 (nearly 200 hours) and I find even playing on commander to be... um... a bit easy? You definitely get better at the game. Know how to manipulate the AI and maps to minimize risks and just start breezing through missions. I play all my games on ironman unless it's a heavy mod that risks breaking.

 

[Deleted member 6263]

God this is so fucking hard I'm going to have to take a break from this. I finally got Dark Souls 3 so I'm playing that instead.

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Which I read as:

STUPIDSHITASS DAMMIT THIS GAME IS TOO HARD! I'll just play Dark Souls 3 to cool down some...

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Which is pretty impressive because I think I'd be the type to go straight for something like Abzu or Journey after a frustrating/unfair playing experience.

 

[Sblargh]

My favorite game in the planet. Just finished my 4th War of the chosen legendary ironman campaign today, so it is nice to see this thread.

Few tips:

The game is about managing pods primarily. I.e. you want to fight one little group at a time.

So when you find a pod (small group of aliens) create an imaginary line right in front of your soldier closest to them and DO NOT CROSS IT

As much as flanking or melee attacks are tempting, they are that: temptation. The thing you are trying to avoid the most above everything else is activating more enemies while fighting the ones already active, so stay your ground, blow covers, do whatever you want, but unless you are pretty sure you are fighting the last group on the map, do not advance. Ever.

 

[Zocano]

Which is pretty impressive because I think I'd be the type to go straight for something like Abzu or Journey after a frustrating/unfair playing experience.

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Experience with hard games can be weird because frustration tends to just fall away and become zen instead. You know how to play it and how to excel so you just *do* it.

 

[RedlineRonin]

totally thought the "almost not fair" part was going to be about how later abilities let you just steamroll in that game. Banish is so OP it's hilarious.

 

[Deleted member 35011]

totally thought the "almost not fair" part was going to be about how later abilities let you just steamroll in that game. Banish is so OP it's hilarious.

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Reapers in general are the most broken thing in the world, I love them so much haha

 

[Brawndo Addict]

It's definitely one of those games where you need to lose and gain knowledge before you're really going to be in a position where you can succeed. If you don't know how certain mobs or mission mechanics work, what upgrades are worth pursuing first, what skill builds/combinations work well, etc, then you're going to have a really bad time if you're expecting to beat it on a blind first play-through.

 

[Sblargh]

Reapers are a map hack, which boderline break the game (tho you are sacrificing firepower), but I am assuming OP isn't playing with the expasion or DLCs.

 

[Starlatine]

I have bad news for you: on anything but Impossible the game straights up cheat.... but for the player

Your 80% shots actually have increased chance to hit and the 80% shots of enemies decreased chances. Specially on Veteran.

But wouldnt recommend iron man on any mode. The game is too buggy , its a disaster waiting to happen when you throw a grenade and something weird happens and you lose your best soldier for no reason. Play bronze man instead, don't risk your patience like that

 

[Aztechnology]

XCOM 2's fairly strict time enforcement was something I modded out immediately. I didn't get rid of it, but I found a mod that would delay the countdown timer until I engaged/was sighted, extended on some missions or got rid of it on others that made sense in context. It made me enjoy the game alot more on the harder difficulties.

Do they have any options to change timer values or disable them on console?

I did my first playtrhough on vanilla veteran outside the mods that were developed alongside the game for release in a partnership though. I looked at those as though they were free dlc.

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

Remember thinking that the vanilla final encounter felt pretty unfair, you think this game is done with difficulty spikes by then, but the final boss is its own set of new difficulty spikes. Loved it though.

 

[peepers]

It's actually pretty crazy that you are playing the same games as me (xcom2 and dark souls 3) lol. Yes, I'm finding it harder than the first one but so far I think it's because I'm not used to the new mechanics and am not able to use the stealth mode in every mission to its fullest. Also the accuracy when you have the higher ground feels broken and it pisses me off sometimes. The poison snakes are bs too but we gotta keep pushing man humanity needs us

 

[Ebullientprism]

Save scum like a motherfucker bro.

 

[RumbleHumble]

Having beaten both games, XCOM 2's normal difficulty is a significant jump harder than XCOM 1's. This jump carries over to the higher levels of difficulty as well. Prepare to lose. Its one of the few games that feels legitimately balanced to kick you while you're down.

 

[Sanctuary]

I haven't bothered to play XCOM 2 yet, despite constantly waffling on the idea. I enjoyed the reboot mostly, but I didn't care for missing 90% of the time with an 85% chance to hit. Shit got old fast, and from what I had read about the second game, the RNG was even worse.

 

[GeoGonzo]

XCOM 2's fairly strict time enforcement was something I modded out immediately. I didn't get rid of it, but I found a mod that would delay the countdown timer until I engaged/was sighted, extended on some missions or got rid of it on others that made sense in context. It made me enjoy the game alot more on the harder difficulties.

Do they have any options to change timer values or disable them on console?

I did my first playtrhough on vanilla veteran outside the mods that were developed alongside the game for release in a partnership though. I looked at those as though they were free dlc.

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For what its worth, if you haven't tried War of the Chosen they dialed it back quite a bit. Most missions still have a timer of some sort, but they're usually a lot more generous. Also, they actually do the delayed countdown you describe from that mod.

 

[semiconscious]

My favorite game in the planet. Just finished my 4th War of the chosen legendary ironman campaign today, so it is nice to see this thread.

Few tips:

The game is about managing pods primarily. I.e. you want to fight one little group at a time.

So when you find a pod (small group of aliens) create an imaginary line right in front of your soldier closest to them and DO NOT CROSS IT

As much as flanking or melee attacks are tempting, they are that: temptation. The thing you are trying to avoid the most above everything else is activating more enemies while fighting the ones already active, so stay your ground, blow covers, do whatever you want, but unless you are pretty sure you are fighting the last group on the map, do not advance. Ever.

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while i completely understand what you're saying, a strategy game that basically punishes you if you melee or flank? it just sounds miserable :) ...

i loved the original, but, after hearing about stuff like this, & the turn limit aspect, i've never really been tempted to play the sequel...

 

[hannuraina]

cleared x1 on normal and it was super challenging. in 2, which i finished a couple weeks ago, i was getting annihilated. with the pressure of the advent project and all my peeps dying, i started over on easy. had a much better time, and still enjoyed a challenging experience

Spoiler

i suck at strat games

 

[AncientReptileBrain]

You really want to get those covert missions going. You can SIGNIFICANTLY lower the avatar project progress by sending troops out on the missions that do so. I think advancing the chosen hunts helps unlock those missions but I could be mistaken.

another big bit of advice I can give is remember that cover is destructible. A well thrown grenade that blows open a wall can completely change the tide of battle.

Also, don't forget to prioritise enemies that are guaranteed to do damage this turn, particularly if you can kill them. Some of the more intimidating psychic or hulking enemies look scary, but will actually take an extra turn to do their signature non-damage dealing move, or get closer to you or something. Sometimes prioritising the grunts pays off.

Also, I don't know who would ever not pick Haywire Protocol for their specialists. The extra turn it grants you against mechs is a ridiculous buff.

I'm playing it now on PS4 with WOTC for the first time since it launched on PC, and I'm in awe of this game. I'm playing on Ironman for the first time in any of these new xcom games, and the feeling of losing some of my best people but still managing to call in an evac and stem the losses and ultimately claw my way back is just... *chef's kiss*.

Oh, word of warning: if you're on Ironman, and on console, don't do the lost+advent mission that pops up as a guerilla that grants you like two majors and a scientist plus some loot. It looks sexy, but it will crash your game and delete your auto save. It's no fucking joke, and I'm thankful I had a cloudsave from just before hand. If you're playing on console, make sure you're keeping backups in the cloud. :|

Edit; the timer issue is not really any issue in WOTC. In general, they're far more forgiving, but you unlock a faction perk that extends the timer by two turns across the board early on and that makes things incredibly manageable. You can't cheese the cooldown timers between combat encounters in countdown missions, true, and you have to advance somewhat quicker than all overwatch always mode, but you still have some breathing room. Ymmv, but the amount of timer missions seem lower in general too.

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

It is one of the few games that tries to make a reality out of "a new threat we were not anticipating appeared, we should think about aborting the mission" . A mission going bad in almost every other game it is just window dressing to make it more dramatic, in xcom 2 a mission going bad is probably going to fail.

 

[Kimura]

are they making a second expansion? And is there any of the DLC besides War of the chosen that is worth getting. Some of the DLCs have bad reviews on steam!

 

[Starlatine]

while i completely understand what you're saying, a strategy game that basically punishes you if you melee or flank? it just sounds miserable :) ...

i loved the original, but, after hearing about stuff like this, & the turn limit aspect, i've never really been tempted to play the sequel...

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Melee and flanking are perfectly viable. You just dont want to rush for it and then activate five pods at once. when the enemies are already spread out and the battle is happening, you definitely should look for flanks every shot and ranger sword attacks are OP as hell with the proper setup

are they making a second expansion? And is there any of the DLC besides War of the chosen that is worth getting. Some of the DLCs have bad reviews on steam!

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Two dlcs are just cosmetic shit. Pick them or not if its something that suits you.
Shens Last Gift and Alien Hunters are good DLC but the way they're implemented is.... odd. Basically, they're super tough missions that appear super early and if you dont know about it, you will basically screw yourself over. Specially if you start alien hunters which makes the three super aliens start appearing every mission and with an undertrained squad in your hands, you're going to get smashed every mission they do so

 

[jtb]

Never got around to WOTC but the AI activation mechanics really soured me on any attempts to replay through XCOM 2. Felt like I was cheesing the system.

 

[Fubar]

I got probably halfway through the game and put it down, this thread it making me excited to play again.

Where is the cheapest place I can get WOTC PC?

 

[GeoGonzo]

I haven't bothered to play XCOM 2 yet, despite constantly waffling on the idea. I enjoyed the reboot mostly, but I didn't care for missing 90% of the time with an 85% chance to hit. Shit got old fast, and from what I had read about the second game, the RNG was even worse.

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As Starlatine mentioned, the game actually cheats to help, not the other way around. We often take 80% shots as if they were a certainty but 1 in 5 isn't an unlikely scenario at all. At the same time, XCOM 2 teaches you to sometimes "fish" for hits, by taking shots you usually wouldn't but are still worth attempting if some luck means being able to save an ability or explosive for later.

 

[Sblargh]

while i completely understand what you're saying, a strategy game that basically punishes you if you melee or flank? it just sounds miserable :) ...

i loved the original, but, after hearing about stuff like this, & the turn limit aspect, i've never really been tempted to play the sequel...

Click to shrink...

You can do it, but you have to know what you are doing. Or you have to know what risk you are taking.
Flanking and melee increase your % significantly; but it carries a risk.
Managing pros and cons are what good strategy games are built around.

 

[Serenity Lotus]

I heard this game is rather buggy on consoles. Was I misled?

 

[komaruR]

i have to be the

Spoiler

save

scum of the universe. :S

 

[atamize]

I just reached the point where those poison dudes in the robot suits showed up and they launched a grenade that pushed my shit in and then the red mecha robot and the shieldtrooper get dropped in during the same mission.

Click to shrink...

If you know you're not gonna be able to kill the Andromedon in one turn, spread out your units if possible. He'll grenade you if you're clumped up. Same goes for the Advent mecs.

You really shouldn't be training rookies late game. You definitely want a good A-team early on, but you need to build a B-team as well; try taking a rookie on Easy missions.

 

[Chopchop]

I'd avoid Ironman and play "honorman" just to be safe. That is, play with Ironman mode off but just make sure to not save scum. Ironman mode itself is too buggy to be reliable. You could lose your save.

The game is hard, and it changes up the formula from XCOM 1 enough that experience in 1 doesn't necessarily translate to certain mission conditions in 2. So starting a new game on Normal might be better than starting 2 in hard mode. I imagine harder difficulties are much more doable once you know how to handle each of the new alien types.

Going in blind greatly raises the chances of getting wrecked, since most enemy types have super nasty tricks that need to be handled in specific ways.

 

[Deleted member 984]

It's also kicking my ass. I never really had much problem with reboot though I never actually i completed it due to messing up my resources. Still trying to get into the gameplay flow. I'm only on the black site mission and just using that to experiment to find out how the enemies work. I keep wanting to finish missions with the full squad but feel like it's a given that you are going to lose at least one member, whereas I'd usually finish with a full squad until later in the game in the reboot.

 

[Noema]

It's hard as nails. It's designed for people who though Xcom 1 in the hardest difficulty on Ironman was easy. And it's pretty unapologetic about it.

I like Xcom and I like hard games, but it was just to much for me. I think I'll finish Xcom 1 again on a harder difficulty and then try 2 again because other than the brutal difficulty I was enjoying the game.

I heard this game is rather buggy on consoles. Was I misled?

Click to shrink...

I can only speak for myself since I only played for 15 hours or so, but I think the bugs have mostly been fixed

Shens Last Gift and Alien Hunters are good DLC but the way they're implemented is.... odd. Basically, they're super tough missions that appear super early and if you dont know about it, you will basically screw yourself over. Specially if you start alien hunters which makes the three super aliens start appearing every mission and with an undertrained squad in your hands, you're going to get smashed every mission they do so

Click to shrink...

This happened to me. Interestingly, toggling the DLC in settings actually makes it harder since it'll trigger the Super Vipers regardless of what you do and pretty early as well. The only way to delay or avoid fighting them is to enable the DLC, but not do the mission.

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

i have to be the

Spoiler

save

scum of the universe. :S

Click to shrink...

 

[Stoze]

Yeah the first playthrough I had of XCOM 2 was brutal, but mainly because there's so much new stuff added that I didn't know what to expect.

while i completely understand what you're saying, a strategy game that basically punishes you if you melee or flank? it just sounds miserable :) ...

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That's not what they're saying. You can get flanking shots and shotgun/melee kills often just by good positioning, but you want to prioritize tackling one mob at a time above all else. You should be punished for sprinting your assault to flank an alien way in the back when you have no clue what's behind him. The concealment mechanic (which is a big reason why I think 2 is better than 1) makes it so you can understand the enemy sight-lines and position before engaging.

 

[Roytheone]

Also, I don't know who would ever not pick Haywire Protocol for their specialists. The extra turn it grants you against mechs is a ridiculous buff.

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I thought this until a stun lancer knocked my best soldier unconscious and I didn't have revive protocol.......

 

[Sblargh]

It's not that hard, but it requires knowledge.
You have to know who is the biggest threat, develop a set of good practices that will lead you not to activate extra pods, knowing how to balance moving and scout to beat the timer with holding back.
Also knowing good research paths and base building, and stuff. So yeah, you will fail sometimes. But then straight up saying the game is hard and unfair doesn't sit good with me. Once you know what's up, the risk is actually becoming way too easy.

 

[99humanity]

Playing Ironman/veteran is a mistake unless you are asking for a very frustrating time

The game is still challenging and unfair at lower difficulties lol. Game fucking owns.

 

[Serenity Lotus]

I can only speak for myself since I only played for 15 hours or so, but I think the bugs have mostly been fixed

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Thank you. It is the only reason I didn't pick it up yet. :)

 

[semiconscious]

You can do it, but you have to know what you are doing. Or you have to know what risk you are taking.
Flanking and melee increase your % significantly; but it carries a risk.
Managing pros and cons are what good strategy games are built around.

Click to shrink...

like i mentioned, i really enjoyed the first game. i was just responding to this advice:

So when you find a pod (small group of aliens) create an imaginary line right in front of your soldier closest to them and DO NOT CROSS IT

As much as flanking or melee attacks are tempting, they are that: temptation. The thing you are trying to avoid the most above everything else is activating more enemies while fighting the ones already active, so stay your ground, blow covers, do whatever you want, but unless you are pretty sure you are fighting the last group on the map, do not advance. Ever.

Click to shrink...

which says that, whatever the possible advantages, melee/flanking are fundamentally risks never worth taking...

 

[Sandersson]

The game is borderline broken. Getting accident pulls because a random mob sees you through the roof etc is just so fucking horrible design. The stealth system makes no sense and you cant really counter accidental pulls that well. On top of those the timed missions... jesus fucking christ..I would love to know whos idea they were.

"Hey, lets force the player rush through the level with very strict time windows! Hey, lets throw in 15 mobs strolling around the map and make them magnetic towards the player! Hey, on top of that we should add infinite backups for the enemy! And we have got a home run!"

Like 90% of my deaths happened because of accidental pulls. Its not fun, not really even hard since it a numbers game after all. I will never touch that POS again.

 

[Sblargh]

like i mentioned, i really enjoyed the first game. i was just responding to this advice:



which says that, whatever the possible advantages, melee/flanking are fundamentally risks never worth taking...

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Melee I stand by it. If it's not the last pod, just don't it; but you can flank without moving forward, you can blow cover, you have options without moving rushing ahead and putting yourself in a bad spot.
Good strategy is knowing how to do this without the obvious moving point-blank and shooting.
-
And I'll repeat until the end of my life. The game is really not that difficult, what you need is knowledge of how to do things properly.
You are not being punished by the game being unfair, you are being punished for not knowing how to play it properly. But it is a turn-based game, you are not being punished for not knowing combos or messing up timings, you are making wrong decisions that you can stop and think about it.