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Oct 25, 2017
5,608
So yesterday I beat Yakuza Kiwami, and wow, I don't think I've ever played a sequel to a game, that does absolutely everything worse than it's predecessor. Like I know it's a remake, but still, I don't think there's a single aspect of this game that is done better or hell even on par with 0.

If I were to describe Yakuza 0, it'd be a game with an amazing story and mediocre gameplay. If I were to describe Kiwami, it'd be a game with an ok story and bad gameplay.

Let's start with the story, because it's the only redeeming quality about this game. And even then it's still a step down from 0's. I liked seeing Nishikiyama's decent into darkness especially considering how much of a friend he was in 0, and I like how the flash backs show just how much life hit him after Kiyru went to jail. One issue I did have is that he's pretty much sidelined for most of the game despite being the main antagonist. Especially towards the end when they introduce Jingu and he just takes all the focus away. It's like they completely forgot Nishki was the main villain till the final fight.

Now let's talk about the game play. Now I wasn't big on 0's gameplay either, but I thought it was at least serviceable. The gameplay loop here is honestly pretty trash. It mostly consists of you talking to someone in purgatory for a minute then running back to Serena's to talk to someone for a minute then back to purgatory rinse and repeat. The game also conveniently made both these two areas as far apart from each as possible. Yakuza 0 had the same issue but at least with that game you were frequently going to many different locations instead of just 2 primary ones.

Now for the combat. The combat is what really soured me on this game. It's straight up garbage imo. You do way too little damage. Weapons are annoying as fuck even with items like the bulletproof vest. and way too many attacks in this game cause hard knockdown. There's been situations in this game where every other hit has me on the floor mashing x. Also when fighting groups of enemies it's way to easy to be locked into constant hit stun with no way to break free. I also dislike the upgrade system as well.

Boss fights especially are fucking tedious as hell. They last way too long. Like most of the boss fights in this game took me upwards of 20 - 30 mins to beat. And this is with me pumping most of my exp into health/damage boosts and Heat moves. Also fuuuuck the Kiwami system. It's so stupid how bosses will regain health while doing it. It makes boss fights, which were already tedious and repetitive even longer. Not too mention that they can regain a nearly a full bar of health within a few seconds. So if you aren't ready, minutes worth of progress can be wiped out just like that. What's even worse is that on some occasions you can't even use a kiwami attack on a boss, so you have to sit there and watch them regen helplessly. This happened to me twice, once against Shimano in chap 3 (because the game never told me that you had to buy an upgrade in order to use a kiwami attack against a boss) and again against Nishkiyama, because his heat style was dragon and I didn't fight Majima enough to unlock the Kiwami attack for this apparently. I can safely say that this game has the worse collection of bosses in any game I've ever play. Whenever I get to a boss and think "this is the worst boss in the game" The game goes "hold my beer" and introduces an even shitter one in the next chapter.

I really wanted to like this game but it didn't do anything for me. In fact if I'm being honest, I think this is just straight up a bad game. A lot of shitty design decisions imo. I wasn't really a fan of Yakuza 0s gameplay either but it's amazing story kept me going. So for this game to not even have that good of story but with even worse gameplay mechanics, frustrated me to no end. Honestly this game's one saving grace was that it's pretty short. I was able to beat it in less than half the time 0 took me. I already own Kiwami 2 and am hoping that it plays nothing like this, otherwise I might have to cut my stint with the Yakuza series short here....
 

aisback

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,741
I agree with you.

To me it felt more like an expansion.

It essentially is a remake with added content. I think you'll like K2 more
 

Giever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,756
I agree 100%. It's funny because I understand people thinking Yakuza 0 is a great entry to the series, but then you follow it up with Kiwami and it's just such a sharp decline. It's kind of understandable given that you're going from almost their latest game and a culmination of their skill as developers in Yakuza 0 to literally their first go in Kiwami, but yeah.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,165
I've never played the series but wasn't 0 made significantly after the game Kiwami is remade from? I don't know if you can call it an awful follow up in that case.
 

Kolx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
It's not a sequel tho so I don't feel criticizing it as such is fair. Still agree with how the game is a huge step down from 0, but it's the first game in the series. 0 came after many games and they perfected the formula. Kiwami 2 while not as good as 0 is still a huge improvement and you should enjoy it a lot more than 1.
 
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CharlesAznable
Oct 25, 2017
5,608
I've never played the series but wasn't 0 made significantly after the game Kiwami is remade from? I don't know if you can call it an awful follow up in that case.

Kiwami came out a year after 0. I understand it was a remake so they were constraint a bit in that sense. But that really only covers the story. There's no reason the rest of the game needed to be as dated as it was.
 

Fire Bocchi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,648
always play through a series in a original release order,especially if the chronological order jumps around a lot
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,352
It's only a sequel chronologically/canonically speaking, lending itself to some constraint I think. It's still basically a remaster of the original game that came out over a decade ago.
 

chrisPjelly

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
10,496
I hate to admit, but even as a Yakuza fan, I agree with almost all of your points. I'm sorry guys, but the core gameplay loop of Yakuza (haven't played 6 or Kiwmai 2) can be incrediiiiibly mundane and repetitive. PLEASE don't sell the Yakuza franchise on its "thrilling combat", you're only going to turn off people away from the franchise. Sure it has some flashy moves, but once you've seen them all, you've basically experienced what the whole game has to offer in terms of combat. Yakuza games live and die by it's story, both in the main quests and the amazing goofy/emotional subquests, and its atmosphere. Unfortunately, by virtue of being a remake of the first game, Kiwami is kinda restricted in that sense.
 

jacks81x

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,460
NYC
0 and K2 are definitely better. They didn't really add much enhancements to K1. So it's basically just a pretty version of Y1, which is why it's far inferior to Y0, a game that was made with the knowledge and experience of 10 years worth of Yakuza games.
 

boris_

Member
Mar 19, 2018
455
I agree, then again I don't really care about the combat system and minigames in the series.

I just want to know how to story progresses.

... and date some new escorts of course.
 

Normal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,296
Only completed Kiwami, but I agree with you. The only interesting character was the best friend who turns evil.
The boss fights are bullshit especially the ones that use guns, and I found the combat to be weak. I'll still pick up 2 when it's cheaper though.
 

LAM09

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,210
It was the team's first go at the series while Zero was built upon four other iterations (2-5).

Also, the game supposedly had the budget of a Vita title, so they did the bare minimum with it and the launch price was an indicator of that (ÂŁ24.99).
 

convo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,377
Kiwami 1 is pretty much a mediocre game and considered a story expansion to Zero so you could know what happened in Yakuza 1.
Not buying the upgrade to have the kiwami attacks to stop the health regen is one of the pitfalls you fall into, and it sucks for everyone who doesn't know about it and no new game after that has it.
Wanting more Majima interactions i craved i fought him to exhaustion till the next story event so keeping up my power is just what i do with these games. Content wise you can't do much with one town but it's just that in the original which really just radiates the mid-2000s for me,
it's the start of the franchise but far from anyone's favorite story.
Kiwami 2 having the two towns you're used to and having a whole different engine than the game's you've played may be more to your liking as the moveset is pretty straigtforward and throwing people around with actual physics is pretty fun and people who didn't like Zero's combat tend to like the feel of it more.
 

McNagah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
454
Yakuza Kiwami is not a sequel to Yakuza 0.
Isn't it a game that is based off of the system that 0 made? In that case it's a gameplay sequel to 0.

I tried Kiwami earlier this year and it wasn't as good as 0. I wish that you would have mentioned the system to change your combat style in the OP though. That was a really nice addition added to the combat.
 
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CharlesAznable
Oct 25, 2017
5,608
Only completed Kiwami, but I agree with you. The only interesting character was the best friend who turns evil.
The boss fights are bullshit especially the ones that use guns, and I found the combat to be weak. I'll still pick up 2 when it's cheaper though.
Returns1.jpg

This mother fucker was the worst. I almost had an aneurysm fighting him without a bullet proof vest.
 

jacks81x

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,460
NYC
It is almost universally suggest by the fanbase to play Kiwami after 0. Also Kiwami was released after 0... so in both release order and chronological order I'm following the correct path.

As a huge Yakuza fan, that's not the order I would recommend someone to play the series in. I would recommend K1, K2, 3, 4, 5, 0, 6. 0 is infinitely more impactful if you know who Majima becomes and where his life ends up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
I rank Kiwami 1 really low in the series and would always recommend Yakuza 0 as an entry point as it gives a far better impression of the franchise.

That said, I presume it was made with a tiny fraction of the budget and time spent on Yakuza 0. It is also still using the framework and story of a game from 10 years ago, one that that was their first attempt at a lot of the stuff that they had heavily improved upon by Yakuza 0.

Edit: That said, I really dig the gameplay and outside of a few boss fights I think it shines.
 
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Normal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,296
This mother fucker was the worst. I almost had an aneurysm fighting him without a bullet proof vest.
Him and this dude
With his two body guards. This is not how you design bosses.
Attack ->Get Shot and fall on the ground -> Get up and attack -> Get Shot and fall on the ground
Repeat until your health gets low and you need to spam items.


The only "good" boss fight in the game was against him.
 

Viale

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,616
I think of yakuza kiwami more like a decent expansion to zero vs full sequel. I do heavily disagree on gameplay though, switching and fighting felt notably by better in kiwami vs zero for me. The only ehh thing was that bosses required heat actions to beat, but I didnt think it was *that* bad.

I've so far played 0, k, k2, and 6 and kiwami is easily the worst of the bunch. I still enjoyed it a lot though.
 

DVCY201

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,166
I'm actually glad I played Kiwami first. I got through that slog, and then 0 helped cement my interest. I've heard Kiwami 2 is an improvement, so I'm looking forward to it.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
0 is far and away the best game in the series, but then Kiwami is set chronologically after and intended to be played next, and that's a real shame. The quality disparity between both games is ridiculously wide, because you're going from the highest peak, to one of the lowest points.
 
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CharlesAznable
Oct 25, 2017
5,608
Him and this dude
maxresdefault.jpg


With his two body guards. This is not how you design bosses.
Attack ->Get Shot and fall on the ground -> Get up and attack -> Get Shot and fall on the ground
Repeat until your health gets low and you need to spam items.


The only "good" boss fight in the game was against him.
latest


Agreed 100%. The worst part about Jingu was that he wasn't even that hard himself. It was his two goons that fucking ruined it. My dumbass wasted my time killing the goons first only to realize that if you do that, then they just get back up, so you have to take out Jingu first.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,909
No fucking shit Kiwami isn't as good as 0.

It's a remake of a 13 year old game. Of course it's not going to be as good as a more recent entry in the series, and it's stupid to compare them that way.
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,283
Playing Kiwami 1 after 0 was jarring as hell. I give it a modest pass for really just being a remaster but man, it's rooough. Awful boss fights, terribly paced story, Majima Everywhere system turning just navigating the city into a chore, etc.

Thankfully Kiwami 2 is MUCH better.
 

Hazzaku

Member
Oct 25, 2017
310
Felt like a budget DLC expansion pack for Y0.
The boss fight in the night club with the capoeria dude and bulky guy if you don't have the Kiwami moves ... wasn't fun.

I prefer 1 HD because I could stock up on weapons for boss fights like Amon (yeah I'm a scrub).
 

HeeHo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
476
I had some complaints about the difficulty and then I somehow became efficient at counter attacking to the point where Ievery time I was struck I could retaliate right away.

I managed to abuse that to avoid knockdown and keep damage up on bosses regaint health. I was pretty over powered near the end due to Majima fights too. I like Kiwami, not as much as 0 though
 
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CharlesAznable
Oct 25, 2017
5,608
No fucking shit Kiwami isn't as good as 0.

It's a remake of a 13 year old game. Of course it's not going to be as good as a more recent entry in the series, and it's stupid to compare them that way.

Here's the thing. My main issue with the game isn't that it isn't as good as zero. it's that i just think it's a bad game point blank regardless of how it stacks up to zero. Also it's a remake not a remaster. There's no reason why they couldn't have updated the game play mechanics to be more inline with recent games. Which I think they did do to some degree, which is why it's baffling how it still came out so poor.
 

kenta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
857
Disagree... While the game is obviously not as fleshed out as 0, I still loved playing through it. The story beats had that much more impact thanks to playing 0 which I thought was really cool. Sorry to hear that you didn't like it as much but your vitriol about it is kind of weird
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
As a huge Yakuza fan, that's not the order I would recommend someone to play the series in. I would recommend K1, K2, 3, 4, 5, 0, 6. 0 is infinitely more impactful if you know who Majima becomes and where his life ends up.

Making people start with Kiwami might honestly turn off some of them from the franchise.

I found it mostly enjoyable because it advanced the story, I was already attached to some characters and because I knew what the writers could achieve in future installments. But taken as a single game, and worse, a first introduction to the franchise ? It pains me to say it, but it's just not that good.
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
0 was the pinnacle of the series. The team truly put its best work into the game and the engine was at its best. Kiwami is a remake of 1, when the team had no experience in writing or story and hadn't fleshed out the characters.
 
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CharlesAznable
Oct 25, 2017
5,608
Making people start with Kiwami might honestly turn off some of them from the franchise.

I found it mostly enjoyable because it advanced the story and because I knew what the writers could achieve in future installments. But taken as a single game, and worse a first introduction to the franchise ? It pains me to say it, but it's just not that good.


This. I honestly almost gave up even on zero a few times, but the story kept me hooked. If I had started with Kiwami, I definitely wouldn't have become a fan of the franchise.
 

hwarang

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,452
Here's the thing. My main issue with the game isn't that it isn't as good as zero. it's that i just think it's a bad game point blank regardless of how it stacks up to zero. Also it's a remake not a remaster. There's no reason why they couldn't have updated the game play mechanics to be more inline with recent games. Which I think they did do to some degree, which is why it's baffling how it still came out so poor.

I thought 1 and 2 was shit but loved the setting. (Not going to prevent me from playing all of them. lol) I guess the series improved? I might have to try 0 out.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,128
Sydney
Yeah as someone who also entered the series with 0, Kiwami was a big step down. I even think the story absolutely shows it's age, the first few missions are all over the place.

You start in media res with Kiryu standing over a dead body, then you jump back to what is supposed to be the narrative present at a bar, and then you go into a flashback at the same bar months earlier, and then there's a time jump forward of ten years.

It's all over the place. You get whiplash, and I can only imagine how much more confusing all this would be if I had no clue who Kiryu or what his character was like was if I was playing this a decade ago without having played 0.

This was their first game and it showed. I actually put it down for a few months after adoring 0.

I forced myself to finish it as Yakuza 6 was approaching. I was glad I did, because I really enjoyed 6 and felt a lot of the same magic I felt for 0. On top of that, having started Kiwami 2 after getting the platinum in Spiderman, I'm similarly enjoying that much more in line with 0 and 6 in both story and gameplay.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,164
playing through 0 right now. it's a great game but i'm very much on the fence about going through all of them, my expectations are way tapered for Kiwami 1, but assuming it'll be on PC soon for about $20 i guess it's not a huge loss if i don't dig it.
 

Butch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,438
I loved the game in PS2 and I thought Kiwami was just that but with better graphics? Maybe I just forgot about the bad stuff idk
 

Deleted member 8860

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,525
I strongly disagree with the premise. Yakuza 0 had an absolutely awful (both predictable and boring) story that was far too drawn out, with Majima being another generic "good Yakuza", and was filled to the brim with go to area X, talk to someone/trigger a cutscene, go to area Y monotony. Certainly the mini-games were more plentiful in 0, but I have zero interest in any of them in either game. Kiwami had a more straightforward Yakuza narrative, but it was also a much more personal story with stronger characters (making more than cameos) and wasn't nearly as padded as 0.

I'll give you that there are some poorly balanced combat (and one shooting) sequences in Kiwami, though.

As a huge Yakuza fan, that's not the order I would recommend someone to play the series in. I would recommend K1, K2, 3, 4, 5, 0, 6. 0 is infinitely more impactful if you know who Majima becomes and where his life ends up.

The Majima in the 0 might as well be a different character altogether, apart from his eyepatch and his fighting style. Y0 didn't aid his characterization any more than the SW prequels did Vader's.

I thought 1 and 2 was shit but loved the setting. (Not going to prevent me from playing all of them. lol) I guess the series improved? I might have to try 0 out.

It's the same deal but with more padding and more minigames.
 
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Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
I have bad news man. You'll have a hard time finding newer Yakuza games doing much stuff better than 0, remakes or otherwise.

But yeah I understand the sentiment, Yakuza 1/Kiwami is technically the worst mainline game so playing it after 0 for a newcomer must be pretty jarring.
 

sschol

Member
Oct 27, 2017
455
OP, did you beeline for the ending? The way you talk about it makes it seem like it.
I loved the game in PS2 and I thought Kiwami was just that but with better graphics? Maybe I just forgot about the bad stuff idk
I mean, I would imagine the feeling of playing Y1 is pretty different between a version where it's age is immediately apparent or where it looks brand new. I love Yakuza 1, will probably enjoy Kiwami when I get to it, but I can kinda understand all this.
 

jacks81x

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,460
NYC
This. I honestly almost gave up even on zero a few times, but the story kept me hooked. If I had started with Kiwami, I definitely wouldn't have become a fan of the franchise.

Making people start with Kiwami might honestly turn off some of them from the franchise.

It might, but remember, fans who were with the franchise from the very beginning all started with Y1. It definitely didn't turn me off when I first played Y1 in 2006. I thought it was awesome and now Yakuza is one of my favorite franchises of all time. Y0 resonated so much with me on an emotional level because I played Y1-Y5 first. I don't know if I would've had the same emotional response if I was meeting Majima for the first time in Y0.