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Luke Skywalker deserved better than The Last Jedi... (Read OP) (SPOILERS, obviously)
- Thread starter BossAttack
- Start date
Just because the characters believe something doesn't mean it's true. Luke had a whole mythology built around his character by virtue of the writers doing it intentionally. Idk how you could watch TLJ and come to the conclusion Luke went to the island to do anything but live the rest of his life in relative seclusion.
?? Or he just thought that Luke was the only one who could destroy him since he was the Last Jedi.
Maybe it was just bad editing, but we hear the screams of people on the planets being blown up when Finn is onscreen at one point, then he turns around and looks up into the sky. To me, I took it as him feeling the large loss. Could be wrong, and maybe it is because I love Finn that I hope he is force sensitive.
There is a difference between feeling responsible, walking away from everything and seeking out the first Jedi Temple or fucking off to die.
The force is largely spiritual and Luke was seeking out ancient texts for guidance. This is like a story beat as old as time.
Why would they be facing certain death at that time. Luke would have disappeared because bringing along the Resistance would have drawn attention and danger to them (and he was on a journey of spiritual reflection as well). It would have made sense for the Jedi Master to have done this quietly and in a way that allowed for solitude.
Personally, I never took it this way because we never see anyone there scream by Finn, or hardly make a noise. After Finn, we see Han outside Maz place with a large group, and they are all quietly staring into the sky, then Finn runs over from wherever his ship was that he was boarding. The only time we see hear screaming that is matched with anyone on screen it is when we are on the one planet itself being blown up, watching them look at the death laser coming for their faces.
I'm surprised some people are so adamant about defending the movie that they don't get why many people believe Luke Skywalker, one of the most determined and heroic characters in Sci Fi, was simply not in The Last Jedi.
Is it really so unbelievable that it's weird to people that Luke would go to extreme lengths to save his father from the dark side, but apparently runs in fear of and even tries to kill his own nephew?
Why did Luke Skywalker even need to be deconstructed? Why did the farmboy that defeated the Sith with compassion end up spending the last years of his life hiding away on some rock because he didn't care? And don't give me some convoluted excuse about how he hid because he cared too much - Luke Skywalker, the guy that was integral to defeating the Empire, would not have just turned his back on the galaxy and allowed the First Order to rise up and nuke five planets.
Rian Johnson legitimately destroyed one of the most iconic Sci Fi heroes of all time and all we got for it was one badass scene that could have been in any version of the script.
I still don't get why Luke can't have been searching for some ancient Jedi knowledge or wisdom to help him rebuild the Order, only to realise through the course of the movie that he doesn't have to do everything himself. He saved the Force from being permanently corrupted by Palpatine, he played the part the Force had chosen him to play. Now it's up to Rey and Ben to decide what happens next.
There's nothing wrong with Luke being integral to taking out the First Order, either. The First Order, Starkiller Base, even Snoke himself was just background noise added to make the conflict seem bigger and flashier than it is, since obviously they couldn't figure out how to take a clash of ideologies about the future of the Force and make a trilogy out of it without basically bringing back the Empire and the Rebels.
I'm surprised it's a point of contention but the guy Mark Hamill plays in The Last Jedi is no more Luke Skywalker than the guy Henry Cavill plays in Man of Steel is Superman. I don't care if Luke had to be that way for the story to work, either - when you're working with legacy characters, you change the story around them and not them around the story.
Is it really so unbelievable that it's weird to people that Luke would go to extreme lengths to save his father from the dark side, but apparently runs in fear of and even tries to kill his own nephew?
Why did Luke Skywalker even need to be deconstructed? Why did the farmboy that defeated the Sith with compassion end up spending the last years of his life hiding away on some rock because he didn't care? And don't give me some convoluted excuse about how he hid because he cared too much - Luke Skywalker, the guy that was integral to defeating the Empire, would not have just turned his back on the galaxy and allowed the First Order to rise up and nuke five planets.
Rian Johnson legitimately destroyed one of the most iconic Sci Fi heroes of all time and all we got for it was one badass scene that could have been in any version of the script.
I still don't get why Luke can't have been searching for some ancient Jedi knowledge or wisdom to help him rebuild the Order, only to realise through the course of the movie that he doesn't have to do everything himself. He saved the Force from being permanently corrupted by Palpatine, he played the part the Force had chosen him to play. Now it's up to Rey and Ben to decide what happens next.
There's nothing wrong with Luke being integral to taking out the First Order, either. The First Order, Starkiller Base, even Snoke himself was just background noise added to make the conflict seem bigger and flashier than it is, since obviously they couldn't figure out how to take a clash of ideologies about the future of the Force and make a trilogy out of it without basically bringing back the Empire and the Rebels.
I'm surprised it's a point of contention but the guy Mark Hamill plays in The Last Jedi is no more Luke Skywalker than the guy Henry Cavill plays in Man of Steel is Superman. I don't care if Luke had to be that way for the story to work, either - when you're working with legacy characters, you change the story around them and not them around the story.
I love Finn too, but my point still stands.
The only thing in TFA that can kinda be hinted at Finn being Force sensitive is this moment.
But then we find out that the awakening wasn't hidden Finn but with Rey, so Kylo wasn't sensing Finn's awakening but probably just saw or sensed that he was acting differently than the others. I think it would be cool if he was and Rey ends up helping him out but there really isn't much there to assume he is Force sensitive.
But then we find out that the awakening wasn't hidden Finn but with Rey, so Kylo wasn't sensing Finn's awakening but probably just saw or sensed that he was acting differently than the others. I think it would be cool if he was and Rey ends up helping him out but there really isn't much there to assume he is Force sensitive.
I agree a ton with some of this BUT because of all of this and what Luke used to be is why I think Luke from The Last Jedi can be so damn interesting. I think TLJ's biggest fault was not giving us enough time with Luke to make me really feel for him and his fucked up situation, and understand how he went from one to the other. I wanted more Luke.
But what about my reason above?! I'm not pulling that out of my butt!
Imagine doing the worst thing you've ever done (or almost did) to family. The catastrophic effects of that action and then having to face the rest of your family afterward. Anyone would run from that. That's something real that happens every day. It's why people we know have bad relationships with their families.
Some people complain that these movies are mindless popcorn action movies, but overlook the fact that these are some really messed up characters who have been through some shit. People call Rey Ms. Perfect while ignoring the fact that she spent the majority of her life blocking out a childhood trauma which lead to her naively waiting for people that didn't give a fuck about her and were long dead.
Sorry Vincent Alexander but we got bamboozled with the marketing. They wanted to make it a twist that Rey was the Force sensitive one, so they marketed it as Finn being the new main character who would be the new Jedi.
Don't say it like that...you make it sound like all hope is lost. I have to hold onto hope.
Maybe that's a picture of him in a theater about to finally watch it.
Wait. You legit haven't seen it? I will buy your movie ticket if you just go see the damn thing.
Yo!
Thank you, I guess I couldn't get these words out right when I tried to explain.
Even the script direction for the final scene of TFA ends the movie by being ambiguous as to Luke's purpose dude. You guys are hinging on one line from Han and ignoring the rest of the movie around it.
But if Luke ran off without a word, even to figure out some sort of plan, that's really pretty shitty of him. He owes Leia and Han more than that, even in TFA terms.
If he did tell them what's up, then that one line of Han's is accurate. Han said he left it all behind.
In self defense, why not?
Obi-Wan cut Darth Maul in half. No one seems to have a problem with that.
It's not so hard to believe that people end up becoming a shell of their former selves. Obi-Wan and Yoda went and peaced out for 20+ years and did nothing while letting the Empire grow because they were caught up in their own failures. The same can be said for Luke. These characters were at a peak until something really fucking bad happens and then they come back down to earth and realize that they're not who they thought they were. Luke even says it in the movie. His hubris lead to believe he can train a whole new group of Jedi. Because he was a legend. He was wrong.
You can't expect characters to be constantly climbing up or else they would just become boring. Seeing them hit a low point and then us seeing them find a way to learn again makes for a better storyline. This is why Luke imo shows to be more powerful than the legends of Yoda and Obi-Wan because he actually learned something. No one knew about Obi-Wan following his death, but damn well everyone knew of Luke Skywalker when he died. He wasn't just some 'myth' anymore.
Heroes fall. All the time. It's just a matter of how they come to rise from it. Luke Skywalker is no exception.
Awesome thoughts here.
Made me think, what if others heroes fall? Which have?
Then my mind wandered to Spider-Man. Is Luke dying the new Peter Parker being married/single????
Some of you hold Luke to an unbelievably weird standard, elevating him far above the faults human beings normally display.
People have done far weirder and worse things when it comes to family in reality, yet I'm supposed to believe it's impossible for Luke to exhibit anything remotely similar?
Give me a break.
People have done far weirder and worse things when it comes to family in reality, yet I'm supposed to believe it's impossible for Luke to exhibit anything remotely similar?
Give me a break.
Hmmmm, not so sure about that.
They could've done anything. Even that false rumor that Luke is stuck on an island guarding the tomb of an ancient sith being. This is why he cannot leave, if he does this being will awaken. And using the force to keep him sleeping means he cannot reach out or sense anyone. Could make it a cave on an island. Its a fantasy magic universe where anything is possible.
Or they could've just made Luke a powerful jedi master once he opened himself back up to force. And sacrifice himself for real at the end.
I like the way it plays out better, but they could've given the fans what they wanted just a bit, but not making him a weakling when he opened himself back up to the force.
My question wasn't to how some could feel the legends were made up, but who doubted he existed at all in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi beyond Rey (who is so far removed it's easy for her to not know anything) and Finn to a degree who was just a few months prior a fully brainwashed individual who was never educated beyond tasks needed for duty.
By Return of the Jedi and a year into it he was immediately recognisable to Storm Troopers on sight. Wanted posters, news articles, official documents, public statements, etc.
In the following decade people were telling stories about him as a real person on top of the "I heard about this guy from a friend who met a trader who got the story from a ex-soldier who...". In that same decade, he visited numerous planets and interacted directly with them.
People who helped him locate old Jedi artefacts knew him. We meet one at the start of The Force Awakens as a big plot point.
A decade after that, people knew about him enough to talk about him in public, in passing, and in front of an entire political assembly that becomes major news shared across the New Republic and various other nation states outside of that.
Nearly half of the Resistance had served with Luke Skywalker and it was a clear and understanding mandate to locate him for the other half.
Poe himself knew he existed because his parents knew him.
The high command of The First Order and their political supporters in the New Republic knew of his existence and was hunting him down.
I question people in this thread believing that everyone in the known universe doubted his existence. His legends people believing to not being true, that's one thing, just like Han Solo not believing in the legends of the Jedi, but Han Solo still acknowledge they existed as a political entity and fought in the Clone Wars.
For in universe reasoning, Luke Skywalker was a known person to a lot of people.
Why? It's canon to the story. Everything Disney is putting out for Star Wars is canon.
It's not expanded universe, it's a shared media universe where the novels, comics, games, and animated shows are all part of the story that the movies both take from and build up from. Finn's story in those early missions matter to his mission in Force Awakens, Leia's fall politically in the Bloodlines novel matters to The Force Awakens.
It's not old Lucas Star Wars where only the movies (and eventually Clone Wars and Rebels) for his canon story telling, everything Disney/Lucasfilm puts out matters for the overall story. Star Wars is now the comics, novels, games, animation, and movies as one universe.
You can ignore it, just like you can ignore the prequels or someone can ignore half of Empire Strikes Back, but when they make the movies, but Disney/Lucasfilm isn't.
Which actually I think is part of the problem for The Force Awakens as a film, it slipped past them I believe that people wouldn't know the information from Aftermath trilogy about how the First Order formed or where they got all their ships, and that annoyed people by feeling unexplained.
Good thing g Luke was still consistent with his OT portrayal then!
The nice thing about this though, if people want, Legends as a separate universe still exists. People can go back re-read or play all of that with just the original trilogy and there are numerous points it it people can say it "ends" and feel like a complete story of epic mythology.
Lots of great stuff, and I wish more people (not talking to you personally, just a general thought) realised that they have the option to do just that. To stick with just what they enjoyed because it's not like Disney broke into any of our houses and burnt all our books down when they took over.
It's not like what would have happen had George Lucas made his 7 and 8, because that would have thrown away all post Return of the Jedi EU/Legends story telling fans had created for all these decades and force drastic changes around all of it just like they had to Boba Fett after Lucas made the prequels.
I personally choose to end it at The Young Jedi Knights series because fans making Jacen (a Solo child) a great evil worse than Vader, endless cycles of civil wars and an Empire winning, and five hundred plus super weapons grew tiresome for me over there. Which is why I can understand people's issues with these movies about Luke even if I'm fine with what they did.
They made it clear force projection from the distance of where Luke was and roughly the point in space the entirely of Last Jedi took place for Kylo was too much could kill a person. The fact he was an old man who hadn't used those "muscles" required to do the Force as well was a great strain
The end of the movie, and I hope people realise spoilers are in this conversation, he faded away just as Obi-Wan and Yoda had at their physical deaths. Leaving behind only their outer loose clothing.
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not really, even mark hamill said as much, and i quote "I said to Rian, Jedi's dont give up. I mean, even if Luke had a problem, he would maybe take a year to try to regroup. But if he made a mistake, he would try to right that wrong, so right there, we had a fundamental difference. But its not my story anymore. It's somebody else's story, and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective."
I mean, u can disagree that TLJ Luke isn't the same as OT Luke, but the guy who actually played Luke's Character disagree's with you.
What's evident is that A LOT OF PEOPLE had the same sentiment as Mark Hamill when they watched the TLJ so they changed the character to fit the story of the movie. Done and Done.
Disagree entirely.
I care too much for my family that Im ashamed to see them after I also cared so much about my family that I came within an arm's reach of killing my family over a moment's feeling of the dark side.
I'm soo glad you mention that actually! Because he's recently gone on record multiple times backing on his statements and saying that he was wrong. He also says he regrets ever voicing such opinions because people like you try to use it against the movie.
Btw did you end up actually watching the movie yet?
That's fine that you do, but he had plenty of flaws in the OT, and he certainly didn't conquer them all by the time the OT finished. It makes sense that one of his flaws might cause issues.
i watched it opening night with the T-mobile Tuesday buy ticket for 5 dollars. is that how you discredit or dismiss people, by saying if they even watched the movie?
Right so just trolling then? Your previous arguments all boiled down to "he got clowned" and then getting corrected on stuff that was all mentioned in the movie.
I don't have to discredit you because you did it yourself.