iono bro do i have a photographic memory that i remember every single specific thing in a movie i saw a month ago one time? *shrug* why dont you address some of the points winny made
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Luke Skywalker deserved better than The Last Jedi... (Read OP) (SPOILERS, obviously)
- Thread starter BossAttack
- Start date
iono bro do i have a photographic memory that i remember every single specific thing in a movie i saw a month ago one time? *shrug* why dont you address some of the points winny made
if he compeletely cut himself off from the force how was able to catch himself falling using the force when Rey attacked him??
Because there was a whole scene dedicated to him re-joining the Force.
OP
OP
Like, I've listed legit complaints about Luke but these things were actually explained within the film.
You must have missed the scene where he walks to the top of the island, puts his hand on the slab of rock and connects to his sister through the force, which happened a few scenes before he uses the force to break his fall. You sure you saw this movie?
uhh, Luke did get clowned on by Kylo Ren. Kylo destroyed 5 planets because of Luke, CLOWNED. Kylo caused luke to cut himself from the Force, CLOWNED! Kylo caused Luke to hide in an island to become suicidal and a wuss. CLOWNED. and in the end Luke dies with Rey having to fix his mess in episode 9. WEAK! Iono what movies u watching but Luke been taking L's from Kylo for a koo minute so iono what you talking about. Luke got clowned, all the way to the very end.
If you think Luke is suicidal you're just making stuff up. Nowhere in the film is that implied. All they wanted you to know from that quote is that his final destination is the island.
Lol this thread is out of control.
Because I've addressed the concept of whether Luke is similar to multiple times already.
But the short of it is that Luke's split second reaction was related to a flaw that was mentioned in the OT pretty damn frequently, and it wasn't a flaw that was resolved in the OT. He always looked to the future, and what tomorrow would bring. He also cared about Leia and his friends to a point that he nearly fell to the darkside over a verbal threat of their harm.
In this movie we are presented with him not only receiving a verbal threat, but what amounts to a video of the person in front of him murdering the things he cares most about, and he has a split second of defensive reflex. He immediately reigns himself in (showing growth from the OT) but it's too late.
This breaks him, because not only by this point was he believing his own legend and hype and managed to make a mistake, but the mistake resulted in him no longer being able to save Ben, who Leia and Han clearly love. Luke has now in his mind completely let down two of the most important people in his life, two people that he risked his life for over and over, and he feels that he failed them because he believed his own hype.
The reason for his exile is that this feeling of failure was compounded when he looked into the history of the Jedi, and saw that the Jedi's failure in the past ALSO resulted in a monster being created which directly resulted in billions of not trillions of deaths. At that point he feels that the Jedi need to end, because no matter what good they do, when they fail the entire galaxy suffers to an absolute extreme.
This is the saddest post I've seen, it's clear talking to you is a waste of time. The only people getting clowned was Kylo and yourself.
Luke literally HUMILIATES Kylo infront of his new army. He literally makes it that Kylo fucks up and doesn't manage to win the literal easiest battle that could have ever been presented to any commander of all time.
You might wanna watch the end of the movie next time, you missed a lot
I think TFA is a terrible film, but I disagree with this almost entirely. Frankly, Luke is the only reason this film is even worth considering on a thematic level. Everything else is some combination of trite, poorly developed, and incoherent. Granted, they didn't do quite enough justice to Luke's off screen development, but the character still works better than the rest of the cast.
This is my main critique of the character development as it stands in TFA. We're left with this question: how can a guy who was willing to sacrifice himself out of compassion for his father even consider (for even a fraction of a second) that killing his nephew is the right idea? Personally, I think it's entirely possible that Luke could become this person. I could go on about it, but the essential element is that being an adult with responsibility is emotionally taxing. It's one thing to be a gung ho kid, putting yourself at death's doorway for the cause, but another when you have multiple dependents looking to you for support and protection. Compound that with the fact that Luke never completed formal training. When shit starts going down, he has nothing but old religious texts to tell him what to do, and they may possibly suggested more strict practices than necessary.
However, I don't think TFA adequately explains this. I think it hints at it, but I still have to make more assumptions than I'd like to. I think it would have been better established if the Jedi books had actually been destroyed, signalling the end of rigid teachings which supposedly lead Luke astray. Frankly, I also would have preferred screen time go to that story than any of the pointless meandering side plots that TFA is currently composed of.
This is where I think you're totally wrong. Why did we need to deconstruct old icons? Because that's practically what they're there for. What happens when the nimble hero gets old? What happens when their straight-forward ideology meets a more complex reality? These are important questions, and personally, the ones I find more interesting.
Have you ever seen Logan? Good deconstructions of known characters are fantastic.
I really hate sentiments like this. The version of Luke you know and love still exists. He exists in the old films which still exist, and he also exists in shitty porn parodies which disrespect his character far more than and official adaptation probably would. Just because Rian's Luke is technically canon, doesn't mean the Luke you know is gone. He's just as there as he would have been had Luke not been in the new trilogy at all.
Probably because a film needs to have some interesting main characters, and Rey wasn't holding up her end of the bargain, so Rian had to inject all the flaws into her would-be master. That may sound like a joke, but it's pretty much true. There's really no plot if miss perfect moral compass met with wizened Luke and they just hit it off. Rey would need to have actual difficulties in using her powers for that dynamic to work, and hell, even then, you'd just be rehashing the plot of Empire.
That's sort of the problem too. Since they couldn't bear to divorce themselves from good-guy underdogs vs. big bad evil guys, the only way to inject any unique thematic content into the new trilogy was to muddy the waters around the Light side.
Why? Do people only ever have one story's worth of development to go through? Why do creators have to treat people's idols with baby gloves? If the character premise is sound, then I say go for it. Art should be free to do what it wants.
Snyder's Superman is terrible not because it changes the character and attempts to complicate his morality, but because it changes Superman's morality to something that's just idiotic and then touts that as the message of the film. Luke, on the other hand, may have been morally wrong, but the film goes to the effort show why he's wrong and then even changes him back to being right.
The poster's argument is literally that because Luke is dead at the end, that means Kylo wins.
I'd actually make the argument that lots of people missed the significance of the end of the film
I haven't read this whole thread but I'm pretty confident this is the best post in it.
(I kind of agree with you)
Luke in TLJ is arguably the most human character I've ever seen in a star wars movie. I thought his finale and send off were perfectly for him,
it was resolved in the OT when he looked at his father's sliced off hand and looked at his own hand, realized that what was what he was becoming, threw away the lightsaber, and said "Never, i'll never turn to the darkside. I am a jedi, like my father before me"
So unless you're telling me in the 30-40 years since then that Luke hasn't perfected the way of the Jedi if he hadn't already on the 2nd deathstar, then sure, but then what the fuk has luke been doing all this time. It only makes sense for luke to want to kill Kylo because RIan says so
You literally just identified two different flaws my man.
Looking to the future/impulsiveness , resisting anger, over protection of people he cares about are all separate aspects of a character. Luke barely turned away from the Dark Side because he saw that he would become the new vader (which he always feared).
So unless you're telling me that Luke should have no flaws despite being human, it makes perfect sense.
Also if Luke got clowned because he's dead at the end, I'm sure you feel the same way about Obi-Wan and Yoda right?
Obi-wan got OWNED
Damn it Einchy you beat me to it!
I disagree. Leia was at least trying to save the galaxy even if her resources were extinguished.
Luke scoffs at the idea of facing the First Order even though he's faced the Empire alone like 3 times.
BTW I loved Leia in this movie. She got a lot to do and actively interacted with the main cast.
Here's a hot take.
Luke was even failing at turning Vader to the light side. Freaking Palpatine had to step in and do his damn job for him.
Luke was even failing at turning Vader to the light side. Freaking Palpatine had to step in and do his damn job for him.
So a character that isn't trying to fight against impossible odds isn't human?
Also err no he didn't? He faced Darth Vader solo twice with one of those times against the emperor.
Pretty much every time Luke had to deal with the empire directly he always had backup.
Luke totally got clowned by Palpatine. It's like Street Fighter, he was down for the count from lightning.\
Edit:
And I explained why he wouldn't after what happened. He literally saw himself as what would harm the people he cared about the most.
Luke even tells you directly to your face "i fucked up and i broke down". He doesn't scoff at the idea of fighting the first order because they're who they say they are, he is just done being who everyone else wants him to be and it takes seeing Rey's determination and willingness to be good and do good to rekindle that passion inside him, which is why he makes his projection an image where he looks at his most heroic to everyone, even giving himself the classic blue lightsaber instead of his green one. He's finally embraced being an icon, being a symbol for hope even when he's defeated and broken.
Luke is magnificent in TLJ.
I mean Kylo did kill a shit ton of people including most of Luke's friends and loved ones all because Luke wanted to stay exiled instead of hurrying up and becoming one with the force to prevent all the destruction that happened in finding him.
Leia's sense of despair was more palpable because of shit that was going on right around her. Her Force 'conversation' with Ben, losing the bombers and several fighters, demoting Poe, having their escapes foiled several times. It just gets worse and worse for her. She is forced to fail and adapt multiple times.
See above.
I'm not going to argue about the "broken Luke" angle because I would rather it not have been written at all. It's okay I guess. I just found Leia more relatable, even her early exchange with Poe nailed it: "There were heroes on that mission." Leia: "Dead heroes."
Leia doesn't like her heroes dying either.
I don't see what's wrong with pointing out that Kylo did in fact throw Luke's entire life into near permanent disarray. His force hologram trick doesn't change that.
I swear some of you guys take this stuff way too seriously.
Wut
I swear some of you guys take this stuff way too seriously.
I mean, it really seems like there are some people who just didn't want Luke to die no matter what, and that just doesn't make sense to me. Yoda is dead. Obi-wan is dead. Qui-gon is dead. I guess we can assume that many people's favorite EU characters like Ahsoka are dead. They're all still great Jedi who accomplished great feats of the Force. Dying is not failure. In fact, Luke's death led to fantastic success.
its worse that Luke wasn't able to resolve the problems that were created like in the OT trilogy, we are instead relegated to a defeated Luke who has to pass the torch on to another person to fix his problems. Luke has now become Death, the destroyer of 5 worlds.
Jeez, no Yoda jokes allowed?
And no one is arguing that Kylo fucked up Luke's world. But when Kylo's final goal is to wipe out everything in his past (aka the Resistance, his mom, Luke) and then Luke stops him from doing so by stroking his ego and making a fool of him, and also kickstarting a reinvigorated Resistance, you can't argue that Luke got the better of him in that instance.
Here's the most recent one where he directly talks about the quality of the movie:
After this he is also on record for laughing his ass off on the male only "fan" edits that were recently released.
There are also plenty of videos on youtube now of interviews where Mark where he admits he had trouble agreeing with the direction initially but that he (mark) was wrong.
I won't link those because the vast majority I found so far are done really obnoxiously (repeating the line over and over to hammer it home etc).
Damn, I missed that reference.
And fair point, which is why that's my favorite scene in the movie.
Finally got to see the movie again for the first time since opening night. There are a handful of questionable scenes I could never deny, but goddamn that's a good movie. And I'm doubling down on every point I made here previously today.
Caught a lot of foreshadowing this time, even down to Rose's "save the things you love" line.
Caught a lot of foreshadowing this time, even down to Rose's "save the things you love" line.
Eh in more recent interviews he did say he felt he was wrong about feeling Luke was wrong, but I imagine interpretation could go either way.
I love Hamill but I wouldn't say he's always had the best ideas for the character.
Honestly I didn't mind much of Luke and though his end was fitting. Ultimate power was never part of his character, he gained power as a means to save his friends and family. Him going Hells Bells and fighting his way though the FO wouldn't have been satisfying.
I do think Rian missed the mark on the lens in which Luke retreating was based in. He explains to Rey that the connective force between light and dark is balance. Yet he has cut himself off from the Force and allowed the Dark to gain dominance. Now that he removed himself, the Force needed light to rise and balance it out. It makes Luke knowingly toss the weight of fighting the Dark Side on someone else. Something I don't think is in his character. He was never one to tell someone else to fight in his stead as Rian wrote him to do. If he came to his nihilism from the lens of no longer wanting to fight the endless conflict that no matter what he did with the Force in him it would continue, makes sense. If Luke thinks by removing his own power from the equation that the conflict of balance would correct itself and turn Ben back toward the Light I think is stronger justification than him just leaving because of failure. Instead this Luke seems more of a coward wanting to throw his responsibility on someone else.
I do think Rian missed the mark on the lens in which Luke retreating was based in. He explains to Rey that the connective force between light and dark is balance. Yet he has cut himself off from the Force and allowed the Dark to gain dominance. Now that he removed himself, the Force needed light to rise and balance it out. It makes Luke knowingly toss the weight of fighting the Dark Side on someone else. Something I don't think is in his character. He was never one to tell someone else to fight in his stead as Rian wrote him to do. If he came to his nihilism from the lens of no longer wanting to fight the endless conflict that no matter what he did with the Force in him it would continue, makes sense. If Luke thinks by removing his own power from the equation that the conflict of balance would correct itself and turn Ben back toward the Light I think is stronger justification than him just leaving because of failure. Instead this Luke seems more of a coward wanting to throw his responsibility on someone else.
First of all, Luke not being there meant he didn't get automatically killed by the barrage of First Order gunfire. The point here was to give the Rebellion a chance to escape.
As for his philosophical outlook, his "training" of Rey, and his dialogue with Yoda, I simply took it completely different than you. If you take a step back and view the Jedi Order, it actually has some pretty messed up tenets, and quite frankly their ideology of suppressing all emotions is essentially what created Vader and one could argue is pretty integral in many joining the Dark Side. They simply aren't equipped to handle severe emotional duress or trauma. And he wasn't supposed to train Rey, he was supposed to subvert Jedi teachings to show Rey how flawed the Jedi Order was in their teachings. Lastly, it's not that Luke suddenly changes his mind on the Jedi after talking to Yoda, but rather it is impressed on him that he doesn't have to shut out the universe to the teachings of the Order, both philosophical as well as how to control/use the force properly, but rather it's up to him and those that follow him to learn from the failures of the Jedi and create a new, better future.
All three things tie in perfectly with the overall themes of the movie - that heroes can fail. And what's more, all three have moments that have a specific line that underscores the main them.
So to me, not only was I excited to see this take on a broken Luke Skywalker which I feel humanizes him and the greater Star Wars universe going forward, but I also feel like it was executed quite well because it's well supported by the writing and characters and fits in with the main theme.
As for his philosophical outlook, his "training" of Rey, and his dialogue with Yoda, I simply took it completely different than you. If you take a step back and view the Jedi Order, it actually has some pretty messed up tenets, and quite frankly their ideology of suppressing all emotions is essentially what created Vader and one could argue is pretty integral in many joining the Dark Side. They simply aren't equipped to handle severe emotional duress or trauma. And he wasn't supposed to train Rey, he was supposed to subvert Jedi teachings to show Rey how flawed the Jedi Order was in their teachings. Lastly, it's not that Luke suddenly changes his mind on the Jedi after talking to Yoda, but rather it is impressed on him that he doesn't have to shut out the universe to the teachings of the Order, both philosophical as well as how to control/use the force properly, but rather it's up to him and those that follow him to learn from the failures of the Jedi and create a new, better future.
All three things tie in perfectly with the overall themes of the movie - that heroes can fail. And what's more, all three have moments that have a specific line that underscores the main them.
So to me, not only was I excited to see this take on a broken Luke Skywalker which I feel humanizes him and the greater Star Wars universe going forward, but I also feel like it was executed quite well because it's well supported by the writing and characters and fits in with the main theme.
What's the movie reference? I don't recognise it so I don't get if it's mocking the clowned post or agreeing with it.
Kylo dropped a roof on Luke. CLOWNED. Clowned. Kylo killed Luke's students. CLOWNED. Clowned. GREEN MILK. Green Milk. Kylo's lightsabre is way cooler than Luke's dorky green one. CLOWNED. Clowned. GREEN MILK. Clowned. Luke's an old man, Kylo a strapping young muscle daddy with pecs for days. CLOWNED. Clowned. Why don't you repeat that three times? Muscle daddy with pecs for days. Muscle daddy with pecs for days. Muscle daddy with pecs for days.
Dammit! It seemed familiar but for some reason it didn't click lol. Great movie.