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Ryengeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,661
Georgia, US
OHWb7TC.gif


Please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy.
Or a Sci-Fi fantasy.
 

Renfran

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 28, 2018
3,325
Unlike Nomura's team, Luminous Productions\BD2 so far have proven they can get games out on time so this actually will be on PS5 and will actually come out. Now I'm absolutely sure this is why Tabata left cause this must be a Final Fantasy game. No way are they going right off the gate with one of the most powerful engines to make a new IP to showcase for PS5.

FFXVI on PS5.
 
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Renfran

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 28, 2018
3,325
Man i was hoping Square wont bring the same terrible behaviour for nextgen by ignoring Xbox..

They won't ignore Xbox because it'll still get the big AAA games like it has been this gen... PS5 is probably the lead platform anyway which is why nothing else is there. But it's pretty foolish to think PlayStation suddenly will lose all Japanese support and it will all go to Xbox next gen...that's never going to happen, any gen. Xbox will never get 90% of Japanese games PlayStation and Nintendo will always be guaranteed to get for obvious reasons. I don't know how this is surprising to you.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
You won't get full guaranteed Japanese support. Xbox May get a few here and there but PlayStation and Nintendo will always get the majority. So that's the way to go if you are a fan of Japanese games.


Let me rephrase, because the guy is obviously concerned about bug Japanese games that get western releases.

Making a game multiplatform will not hamper sales on the playstation platform in Japan...except for folks buying the Switch version.
 

bunkitz

Brave Little Spark
Moderator
Oct 28, 2017
13,523
Honestly I'd take any setting that isn't the boring modern world type setting of FFXV.
I kinda agree only in that I wasn't a big fan of the purely modern side of FFXV's world. The parts that were mixtures of fantasy and modern were cool, especially Altissia and the locations after it.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,565
Those games weren't made using Luminous Engine.

There has been no indication that the Luminous Engine has any issues.
KH3 and FF7R chose Unreal because back then Luminous wasn't completed. Now it is.
XV also didn't take that long to make on the Luminous. Development was main between 2012 to 2016, which is not that crazy in today's terms.

Possibility of it being a typo and they really meant to type "PS4"?

Even with Tabata around, they always called their new IP AAA project next gen. They wanted to start earlier this time.
 

Kumomeme

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
668
Malaysia
Im not suprise if the new ip will be next mainline Final Fantasy, something probably lot of people guess would happened where SE will force to change/rebrand the studio new ip into Final Fantasy

and I'm not even suprise if the new AAA title actually become FFXV-2 LOL
 

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,558
There has been no indication that the Luminous Engine has any issues.
KH3 and FF7R chose Unreal because back then Luminous wasn't completed. Now it is.
XV also didn't take that long to make on the Luminous. Development was main between 2012 to 2016, which is not that crazy in today's terms.
That still remain to be seen. While FFXV development was completed in 2016, they patched alot of significant changes to the gameplay in late 2017.

Unless this next game will be similar to FFXV gameplay wise, I don't see it taking less than 6 years.
 

Renfran

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 28, 2018
3,325
There has been no indication that the Luminous Engine has any issues.
KH3 and FF7R chose Unreal because back then Luminous wasn't completed. Now it is.
XV also didn't take that long to make on the Luminous. Development was main between 2012 to 2016, which is not that crazy in today's terms.



Even with Tabata around, they always called their new IP AAA project next gen. They wanted to start earlier this time.

There's nothing wrong with Luminous, which is Luminous Studios now, not engine. People just made up a narrative and kept going with it. The reason why it was so "troubled" is because the engine was never finished. It was being developed alongside XV so both finished at the same time. KH3 couldn't work with Luminous engine since it was stil in development alongside XV, made sense to switch that to another engine instead of waiting around for Luminous, same for FFVII:R.

Luminous Studios (Engine) is one of the most powerful engines around. FFXV on PC is a perfect showcase of just what the engine can do. It's up there with the RE engine, Decima engine, and other incredible engines. This whole narrative thinking it's some bad engine needs to stop. It's a legitimately one of the best engines around.
 
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Renfran

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 28, 2018
3,325
That still remain to be seen. While FFXV development was completed in 2016, they patched alot of significant changes to the gameplay in late 2017.

Unless this next game will be similar to FFXV gameplay wise, I don't see it taking less than 6 years.

The engine is finished....it's going to be used on most if not all their AAA games next gen, despite what people keep spreading. It won't take 6 years. FFXV was in development since 2013, came out in 2016. That's a normal development cycle. Type-0 was also made in a similar time frame. I don't know why you keep thinking this is like KH3 or FFVII:R. They are completely different teams and LS is a very powerful engine. You only need to look at FFXV on PC to see what the engine is really capable of.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,565
That still remain to be seen. While FFXV development was completed in 2016, they patched alot of significant changes to the gameplay in late 2017.

Unless this next game will be similar to FFXV gameplay wise, I don't see it taking less than 6 years.

Postgame support is the way to go these days. I don't disagree completely and I felt that the game needed another year in the oven. This game probably started development after XV was finished so I'm expecting it to be ready by 2022 or even earlier.

There's nothing wrong with Luminous, which is Luminous Studios now, not engine. People just made up a narrative and kept going with it. The reason why it was so "troubled" is because the engine was never finished. It was being developed alongside XV so both finished at the same time. KH3 couldn't work with Luminous engine since ti was stil in development alongside XV, made sense to switch that to another engine instead of waiting around for Luminous, same for FFVII:R

Luminous Studios (Engine) is one of the most powerful engines around. FFXV on PC is a perfect showcase of just what the engine can do. It's up there with the RE engine, Decima engine, and other incredible engines. This whole narrative thinking it's some bad engine needs to stop. It's a legitimately one of the best engines around.

Yup. There's a small minority that always thinks that Japanese companies should stop building their own engines but there really hasn't been any known issues, unlike with Crystal Tools.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,541
Cross-posting from the other thread:

Why does it say "PS5" instead of "next-gen"? I really doubt that Square Enix is suddenly starting again to make console-exclusive games.

This could imply that they already have very specific information about PS5, maybe even devkits. And it also seems that they don't have the same for Xbox Next. Which is interesting, because we kind of know that Xbox Next is planned for 2020. So why do they have information about PS5 and not Xbox Next? Maybe because PS5 will launch earlier than the next Xbox? Looking at the timing, it seems Luminous Productions was created at the beginning of 2018. Could this be when Sony told them about their next-gen plans?
 

Renfran

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 28, 2018
3,325
Postgame support is the way to go these days. I don't disagree completely and I felt that the game needed another year in the oven. This game probably started development after XV was finished so I'm expecting it to be ready by 2022 or even earlier.



Yup. There's a small minority that always thinks that Japanese companies should stop building their own engines but there really hasn't been any known issues, unlike with Crystal Tools.

Exactly. Crystal Tools was definitely a mess but Luminous isn't. The other issue here is that the engine is too powerful for current gen consoles. Even Pro and X can't showcase what it can actually do correctly. PC version does and that's what the engine was always intended to be like. Next generation hardware will be able to handle the engine so they're going full step forward and most, if not all their AAA games next gen will utilize it despite what people may think with naturally this being the first proof right here. PS5 AAA title being developed by Luminous.
 

Ryengeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,661
Georgia, US
Cross-posting from the other thread:

Why does it say "PS5" instead of "next-gen"? I really doubt that Square Enix is suddenly starting again to make console-exclusive games.

This could imply that they already have very specific information about PS5, maybe even devkits. And it also seems that they don't have the same for Xbox Next. Which is interesting, because we kind of know that Xbox Next is planned for 2020. So why do they have information about PS5 and not Xbox Next? Maybe because PS5 will launch earlier than the next Xbox? Looking at the timing, it seems Luminous Productions was created at the beginning of 2018. Could this be when Sony told them about their next-gen plans?
Or...it could be an exclusive Sony money-hatted deal with SE. Isn't Octopath traveler a Switch exclusive game? Sure there are more 3rd party games being made for all platforms now...but exclusives are still important.
 

ULTROS!

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,474
Exactly. Crystal Tools was definitely a mess but Luminous isn't. The other issue here is that the engine is too powerful for current gen consoles. Even Pro and X can't showcase what it can actually do correctly. PC version does and that's what the engine was always intended to be like. Next generation hardware will be able to handle the engine so they're going full step forward and most, if not all their AAA games next gen will utilize it despite what people may think with naturally this being the first proof right here. PS5 AAA title being developed by Luminous.

I do wonder... What were the issues with Crystal Tools?
 

Renfran

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 28, 2018
3,325
Or...it could be an exclusive Sony money-hatted deal with SE. Isn't Octopath traveler a Switch exclusive game? Sure there are more 3rd party games being made for all platforms now...but exclusives are still important.

Sure, Sony would get most of Square's exclusives like they always have but that depends. If this is Final Fantasy XVI, it's not exclusive to PS5. If it's something else, which doesn't seem likely, then yeah, you've got a point.
 

Renfran

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 28, 2018
3,325
I do wonder... What were the issues with Crystal Tools?

That one goes real back. But you'll have to dig through the development of FFXIII to really get the gist of all that. They also lost a lot of money on that engine and those three lightning games were to recuperate all those costs. They also couldn't afford to make much else but that, which is why you barely saw anything outside of the FFXIII trilogy from Square that gen.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,565
I do wonder... What were the issues with Crystal Tools?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Tools#Development

While Final Fantasy XIII was in production, the development of Crystal Tools caused significant problems and delays. The programmers spent much time on taking all demands from staff into account. Based on this feedback, Murata's team tried to adapt the engine to the needs of several game projects, which proved to be virtually impossible and prevented the engine's specifications from being finalized.[12] Furthermore, as separate groups were working on the individual tools of the engine, there was no comprehensive software documentation to ensure usability and compliance.[13] Unable to wait any longer, the Final Fantasy XIII team had no choice but to begin creating assets to keep to the game's production schedule. However, the lack of specifications resulted in these assets being incompatible with the engine. In the end, it was decided that Final Fantasy XIII was to be the principal focus of Crystal Tools and the game's team began cooperating with the Research and Development Division more closely to receive the required tools and specifications.[12] While preliminary support of Crystal Tools was developed for the Wii, the console did not fully support all components.[3] In 2008, Murata said that Square Enix might license the engine out to other companies at some point in the future, although the limited documentation and the impracticality of supporting licensees posed great problems in doing so.[1][5] Two years later, Final Fantasy XIII producer Yoshinori Kitase stated that developing an engine from scratch to go with a new game may have been a mistake and a likely cause for the long period between the title's announcement and release.

This is why they decided to use Unreal for FF7R and KH3 and focused on completing a game with Luminous before using it for other games. For Crystal Tools, it was too late and Versus 13 was constantly delayed and XIV was a mess. Strangely Dragon Quest X seem to escape the technical issues.

Also a bonus Post Mortum of FFXIII that talked about the problems.
http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/GD_Mag_Archives/GDM_October_2010.pdf

I feel that despite Toriyama's story shenanigans, he managed to learn a lot on team managing from making XIII and managed to churn out the 2 lower budget sequels quite smoothly.
 
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Renfran

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 28, 2018
3,325
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Tools#Development



This is why they decided to use Unreal for FF7R and KH3 and focused on completing a game with Luminous before using it for other games. For Crystal Tools, it was too late and Versus 13 was constantly delayed and XIV was a mess. Strangely Dragon Quest X seem to escape the technical issues.

Yep. They didn't force every game to use an unfinished engine this time around and learned from their past mistakes. They let Tabata and his team finish the engine and XV alongside it while putting KH3 and FFVII:R on UE4 because the engine wasn't finished to avoid additional problems like Crystal Tools. Now the engine has been finished and is a beast of an engine on PC. It's prime ready for next gen and they're going to use it everywhere because it's a legitimately powerful engine that has insane potential. The lighting and particle effect is second to none for example. A good demonstration of the capabilities of the engine aside XV PC, is the Agni's Philosophy demo which I'm 90% sure is either the concept for XVI or the new IP that Tabata was making, considering it was made by Luminous and his team.

People should expect all their major AAA games moving forward next gen running on Luminous. The engine was literally designed to be utilized by high end PCs. FFVII:R, verdict is still out on that one. KH3 is currently the only exception since it's on UE4 but it's still using remnants from when it was on Luminous as is evident by the lighting and particles system.

For people unaware

 
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Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Unlike Nomura's team, Luminous Productions\BD2 so far have proven they can get games out on time so this actually will be on PS5 and will actually come out. Now I'm absolutely sure this is why Tabata left cause this must be a Final Fantasy game. No way are they going right off the gate with one of the most powerful engines to make a new IP to showcase for PS5.

FFXVI on PS5.
Only because one is a game that gets the developmemt time it needs and the other was a forced super rushed production (which, to be fair, was mandated from higher up). KHIII looks more like a complete game that doesn't need 2 years of updates and two season passes to be a more fully fleshed out product. FFXV could've used another year or two in the oven.
 

Vaser

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,004
Oh God, please don't let this be Final Fantasy XVI, after 10 years of shit I want to be hyped for a FF game again.
 

Renfran

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 28, 2018
3,325
Only because one is a game that gets the developmemt time it needs and the was a super rushed production (which, to be fair, was mandated from higher up). KHIII looks more like a complete game that doesn't need 2 years of updates and two season passes to be a more fully fleshed out product. FFXV could've used another year or two in the oven.

Sure, but point still stands. KH3 took much longer despite this but that was due to management and other issues like engine changes...still, even if XV did take another year in the oven, which it should or shouldn't have, doesn't really matter at this point. They proved they can ship out a AAA game to critical and commercial success in normal development time. That makes sense why they're making a PS5 game already and why Luminous is being used next gen because it's capable.

FFXV's situation will always remain a unique one due to the development cycle that game went through. KH3 had a few setbacks, such as engine change and management issues...but even it was effected by delays and the offset of FFXV. Going towards next gen they'll have a better foot forward because now they have a finished AAA engine ready for next gen systems and after KH3 ships, they'll only have FFVII:R to worry about and a different team, this team, will be working on FFXVI potentially. Now getting into FFVII:R....is a whole other matter entirely. Who knows what's going to happen there so we'll have to wait and see but at least XVI might actually have a normal development cycle. This will be the first time in a very long time for a proper FF since FFX to have a normal development cycle, and that's definitely thanks to Tabata and his team for their efforts that they contributed on XV and more importantly, the Luminous engine.

This will also be the second gen where only one main FF comes out. They used to at least have two or even three per generation. Hopefully with now an established engine going forward they can make at least two main FF's per generation. Regardless, I think XVI is going to be a big showcase for Sony's PS5 reveal but I don't think we're seeing that until 2020.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,600

OHWb7TC.gif


Please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy, please let FFXVI be a medieval fantasy.

I don't have any faith in SE anymore but i would kill for a good old classic FF.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
I do wonder... What were the issues with Crystal Tools?
I've gotten the impression that content creation was just slow & clumsy and it was poorly optimized so it was very limiting to what could be done at any given moment without performance immediately going to the shitter. Like, XIV had some large open spaces but it was a repeathaton of assets, lack of proper lighting and there weren't a whole lot of NPCs or enemies around and even then it was a resource hog that require a lot of you from your PC. Lightning Returns didn't look so bad just because it was rushed. That's all the Crystal Tools could do on PS3 if they wanted to retain some resemblance of semi-playable performance in an open world-ish setting.
 

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member
Jul 30, 2018
14,505
United States
So we could have PS5 be revealed in February and it be released in November just like this gen...
 

Renfran

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 28, 2018
3,325
So we could have PS5 be revealed in February and it be released in November just like this gen...

Not happening. 2019 Sony has big 1st Party releases that will be spread throughout as one last pull for PS4 to hit over 100 million next year. You're looking at 2020 for PS5.