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MafiEra Mafia |OT| The Day of the Conspiracy

Fantomas

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,884
I think a lot of attention has been brought to Ketkat because she's an easy target to distract people and mislead them, so I need to go back and see who actually started the scumread train on her.
I can answer that for you right now actually. It was Natiko. He was suspicious of her as early as post #127. He also made it clear in post #146. Post #258, again he's on Ketkat for a new reason now. Mentions her again in #320. And finally, he said if he were elected he would kill Ketkat in post #571.

I then entered the game, and I had already been reading Ketkat as scummy while following from the sidelines, for a lot of the same reasons as Natiko, and announced her as my top scum read.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,049
I will say this about KetKat:

If I was in her position as town, and people were saying they were gonna kill me for only self defending, I would move my ass and try to get something done. Even just asking questions or poking around.

My first thought, in response to Bae's big post was, well, if KetKat was scum surely her team would tell her to post more, right? Maybe Bae's observations have something to them. But to be honest, I've seen plenty of scum players just refuse to change their game simply because they were getting some heat on low/not activity in the hopes the team would turn attention away (or that they could be bussed). So really, I don't know. I will say KetKat isn't being pro-town.

Fantomas - Fantomas feels so subsided in this game compared to what I expect from town!Fantomas that it's actually making me wonder if everything's alright. He's usually in everyone's faces making blunt reads. But in this game he's mostly been scumreading people with low activity (Ketkat, turmoil), and feels generally displaced. He also reacted in a very belligerent and overly defensive way to those early malus/Monkey posts. To be fair, however, his weird read of Terra had me drawing a connection between the two as possible scummates, but that's out the window now, making him look a little better.
see also: how I feel about Faddy. I've been wondering if the restrictions and modifiers haven't cause some adjustments, though. I don't think cabot's the only one feeling a bit hamstring by the events these first two days. It chafes, having the whole game relegated to advisory roles. Faddy at least has been beating his own drum in Faddy style, though. Just less.

What's going on with Blarg today? Blarg, yesterday you were giving us something to work with and while I do enjoy your gifs, I'm not sure I follow what's up today.

I would really like to hear from absolutbro today.
 

Fantomas

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,884
Fantomas feels so subsided in this game compared to what I expect from town!Fantomas that it's actually making me wonder if everything's alright.
not having actual vote records to parse through on D2 makes me feel like a blind man during a shootout. I feel very unmotivated right now.
This is part of my issue I think. WE HAVE NO VOTES. There are no votes for who people want to see lynched anywhere to be found in this game so far. I always love looking at the vote tool. I see who's voting who, I see who changed votes, I see when they did it, I go back to their posts and look for their reasons. I've got none of that. All we can do is tell each other who we think is scummy for hours and hours, and then at the end of D1 you got to kill someone, and now at the end of D2 Fran will get to kill someone. Maybe on D3 we'll be able to finally vote for each other and pressure each other and have a normal day of Mafia, that's my one wish.

In other words, this is another read on me that I agree with, and I fully agree with how you are feeling right now on D2.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,049
Anyone else reloading the vote tool and eyeballing post counts? Just me?

Feeling a little unhappy that FluxWaveZ and CeeCee have not answered my questions.

Really not sure how I'm feeling about Fando and Febe right now at all.

Fran, if Chuggs and CeeCee and KetKat, the popular trio, did not exist, and you had to shoot right now, who would you shoot? And where did Chuggs go anyhow?
 

Pirate Bae

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,782
??
I can answer that for you right now actually. It was Natiko. He was suspicious of her as early as post #127. He also made it clear in post #146. Post #258, again he's on Ketkat for a new reason now. Mentions her again in #320. And finally, he said if he were elected he would kill Ketkat in post #571.

I then entered the game, and I had already been reading Ketkat as scummy while following from the sidelines, for a lot of the same reasons as Natiko, and announced her as my top scum read.
Remind me again, is she still your top read?
 

Brazil

(tofubeats Remix)
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
6,190
São Paulo, Brazil
Faddy please answer this

I've also noticed that Sorian, Monkey and Natiko occupy a very similar portion of my brain in all the games we play together. I don't know if it's due to respect or what, but I just can't settle on one particular way to feel about them, so I end up suspecting them non-stop. I was wrong about this in Mini Mafia IIII, but here I am once again. These are the only three players that always throw me for a loop like this, and I frankly hate that they're all here together.

I thought that Monkey reacting to cabot's (?) observation about Fandorin's joke about Sophia felt forced, and it's crossed my mind a couple of times that Natiko may be trying to pocket me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
733
Tomato
ok now imma read the thread and make dank notes

Turmy (yeah, there'll be a lot of nicknames) saw PR hints and mentions that with names. Town / neutral cuz meanies woundn't dare to mention such a thing.

Ketkat is a kk vote but EHHH there are some serious hints of ez there too. Ez in terms of how easy it is for people to attach to that. Though Ketkat hasn't done that much to change the electorate's impression of her. What does that then tell of her? Town / scum. Realizes the desperate position she's in and/or is unable/unwilling to act up to the point to change this position.

Fire equates Geno with AB and nin. Scum. Invalid comparison. Focuses on opinion only instead of observing the whole of the character, missing the actions. Needs to show something to change opinion.

Oh damn it now I have to think about Chuggs' claim in detail...

...

TheChuggernaut you mention that you suspected Cee because he said that he had three shots. Where, during day one, do you mention this? I am not seeing it.
 

Brazil

(tofubeats Remix)
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
6,190
São Paulo, Brazil
This is part of my issue I think. WE HAVE NO VOTES. There are no votes for who people want to see lynched anywhere to be found in this game so far. I always love looking at the vote tool. I see who's voting who, I see who changed votes, I see when they did it, I go back to their posts and look for their reasons. I've got none of that. All we can do is tell each other who we think is scummy for hours and hours, and then at the end of D1 you got to kill someone, and now at the end of D2 Fran will get to kill someone. Maybe on D3 we'll be able to finally vote for each other and pressure each other and have a normal day of Mafia, that's my one wish.

In other words, this is another read on me that I agree with, and I fully agree with how you are feeling right now on D2.
*Long-winded sigh* yeah, that's fair.

and I frankly hate that they're all here together.
On second thought, this is not a nice way to put it. I like playing with you all. It's just that I'd like to be able to get a proper grasp on at least one of you, and I wasn't able to so far.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,049
No, Brazil, I think it's fair. I have been re-reading and looking at things and frankly that's how I feel about a lot of people. I think the vote data is part of it, as y'all pointed out, but I also think a lot of people are being reserved, and the combination of the two is creating some stagnation. I don't even know what I have to say that's new at this point. Feels like a holding pattern.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,230
Fran, if Chuggs and CeeCee and KetKat, the popular trio, did not exist, and you had to shoot right now, who would you shoot? And where did Chuggs go anyhow?
I'm leaning to Turmoil. He had rac as scum because of an interaction that never existed and when I pointed that out he said he still didn't trusted rac anyway. Then there were a lot of weird votes with almost non justification D1. D1 votes didn't meant as much as usual because we weren't voting for a lynch but Turmoil's vote are all over the place with some weird conections.

And this post after CeeCee killed Stan is weird:

I see no reason to kill ceecee, I think he is likely town, the biggest pushes for killing him were from Geno and Fran, although I have more experience with Geno than Fran, I could see both town them doubling down on it for some reason. OTOH I have problems with Geno's reason, he goes "you never let them go(possible neutrals/scum)"(I don't recall the exact wording) when arguing with Sorian. That motive doesn't sit well with me, looks like pushing a revealed truth down our throats. Kind of forced. Makes me think Ceecee is town, he is scum and wants to kill a power who could swing the game towards town. Also, if he is so keen on best plays, why didn't he vote for Brazil or Stan? Town abdicating from voting gives more power to scum in taking the decision.
He says that he could see both Geno and I doubling down on CeeCee as town but then he says that Geno could be scum. I find that read kind of forced. Like he was trying to have an opinion on the matter and needed to call someone scum.

Brazil What do you think about CeeCee now that he said that he don' have 3-shots?

Pirate Bae I read your read about Ketkat but there is an important part that you are missing. Do you think that she is doing anything to find scum? Because I don't mind much with how much she is defending herself but it's the lack of intention to find scum that is worrying me.

Ketkat You had a scum lean on Fantomas and a weak lean on CeeCee. What do you think about the other posters that I have in my "Like to lynch" list? (Pirate Bae, FluxWaveZ, nin, TheChuggernaut, Zubz, turmoil7)

rac and absolutbro Who do you think I should lynch today and who do you think I shouldn't lynch?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,744
This post might be long, realized I grabbed a lot of quotes and few of them are jokes but rolling with it anyway.

Thanks for that.

Moving Malus for "Could lynch" then.



Did you preferred that I kept that to myself and just surprised everyone near EoD?

I was planning to use the role today anyway so why would I keep quiet about it? I thought that best course of action was sharing what would happen today.



Your avatar is fine.
On the day of the resurrection of our lord and savior Tales of Vesperia, you are just going to say it’s fine? Disgusting.

You have good taste in games.
Thank you, I accept this one.

Recent catch-ups and then going back to hit things I missed.


man, okay, Fando, I'm about to be Pedantic Monkey, Queen of Nitpicks here (but also your English is more than fine from all the times I've played with you, btw). nin often says he's going to have big catchup posts; sometimes they happen, sometimes they don't. You also post a lot more than nin, usually, in terms of volume-in-post and volume-by-post, so your struggles aren't nin's struggles. That's fine, though; I get what you're saying and I'd write it off here but then you basically say JK IT WAS USELESS WE'LL GET A REPLACEMENT LA LA LA which begs the question: if what you were saying doesn't matter, why say it at all?

side-eye engaged.


Please tell me why Flux is town. Draw a picture, something. I have plenty of ideas on both sides but if you're gonna say this I wanna see more support.

This is interesting but that would be a lot of wide open powerwolfing and I don't know if I see that.

Can we keep malus? I like him.

I'm hoping for Zeke. ZEKE ZEKE ZEKE

I think you are a pretty okay dude, Sorian.
I'm such a natural qualifier that this was really difficult for me, for the record.
I don’t accept this one though, pretty okay sounds a bit forced :P

To real posts now:

Right now I think the more likely explanation is power role hunting or a low info kill, but I feel reads from mafia killed players are often forgotten too quickly. This early in the game it's more a general observation than an accusation however.
I can’t see him being low info. He had such a loud opinion on CeeCee and Kawl/nin exists, Kyan exists, I feel like I’m forgetting someone obvious which kind of serves my point even more.

Okay, pure 100% God's honest truth.

I am town day vig, that’s all true. However, I only had the one shot.

The stuff about having 3 shots was to try and bait scum to NK me rather than someone valuable.
Not shocked in the least. Kind of makes you harder to parse now though in terms of the neutral vs. town debate.

With town like this, who even needs truth. We could try wringing the truth out of him but nooo. Hugs and kisses only here. Geno was the one strong voice for Cee's death and why few experiences with him give me the feeling that he would not have given it up any time soon either.

Can we try to solve this game pls. I know seeing a Cee lynch is at least a moderate longshot but it ain't exactly helping when nobody is trying to offer an alternative to it. It is hard to be the bad cop when the suspect is protected by an eternal hugbox.

But yeah, more serious conclusion: Cee is neutral or something. Geno could be a juke to get us to kill Cee, as scum would be afraid of a three-shot vigi, unbeknownst that he is not even that. Still, squeeze the truth out of Cee instead of letting him just be around.

5/30
Geno was not the only voice, he was the loudest. There’s a big difference. There have been plenty of people calling for CeeCee’s lynch.

Why would scum kill a 3 shot vig when you already used your first shot to kill the most trusted townie?

With those credentials they would let you live so you keep doing their work for them.



Between us, you are a scum JOAT, right?
Killing Stan would never bait a kill obviously, the worry that he could go rogue at any time and shoot whoever would have been the worry since that’s just as likely to be turned on scum next time.

I will say this about KetKat:

If I was in her position as town, and people were saying they were gonna kill me for only self defending, I would move my ass and try to get something done. Even just asking questions or poking around.

My first thought, in response to Bae's big post was, well, if KetKat was scum surely her team would tell her to post more, right? Maybe Bae's observations have something to them. But to be honest, I've seen plenty of scum players just refuse to change their game simply because they were getting some heat on low/not activity in the hopes the team would turn attention away (or that they could be bussed). So really, I don't know. I will say KetKat isn't being pro-town.


see also: how I feel about Faddy. I've been wondering if the restrictions and modifiers haven't cause some adjustments, though. I don't think cabot's the only one feeling a bit hamstring by the events these first two days. It chafes, having the whole game relegated to advisory roles. Faddy at least has been beating his own drum in Faddy style, though. Just less.

What's going on with Blarg today? Blarg, yesterday you were giving us something to work with and while I do enjoy your gifs, I'm not sure I follow what's up today.

I would really like to hear from absolutbro today.
Quoted this because I keep meaning to talk about Blarg in one of my posts then kept forgetting. Usually around now is when I’m starting to get a clearer picture on his alignment but I feel like this post restriction is going to delay that a bit because both town and scum Blarg are going to spend more air time joking. He was peeking through a bit with reads and what he wanted Brazil to do yesterday which is still a step in the town direction but I can’t see anything at this point that moves that needle more anywhere.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,221
Faddy please answer this

I've also noticed that Sorian, Monkey and Natiko occupy a very similar portion of my brain in all the games we play together. I don't know if it's due to respect or what, but I just can't settle on one particular way to feel about them, so I end up suspecting them non-stop. I was wrong about this in Mini Mafia IIII, but here I am once again. These are the only three players that always throw me for a loop like this, and I frankly hate that they're all here together.

I thought that Monkey reacting to cabot's (?) observation about Fandorin's joke about Sophia felt forced, and it's crossed my mind a couple of times that Natiko may be trying to pocket me.
They don't occupy the same portion of my brain. In ease of reading them I go Natiko, Monkey, Sorian.

I put Natiko in my town because there have been a couple of occassions where he posted something that i was thinking which is usually a good sign. Posting reads lists is something else I expected even in a big game like this. Natiko thinks similarly to me but is usually more analytical than evidence based than I am.

Monkey I am not sure. She is quite an even player and will hammer you with logic and reasoning that feels correct but I always feel she might do these things as mafia. I'm not surprised she didn't want to be leader on day 1. She is generally indecisive as town.

Sorian. He is pushing all the right buttons to get a town read. He seems like he is solving the game, his comments on Blarg are townie Sorian. The way he is pushing on a variety of people and giving unique reads is fine too. I think if he was scum he would actually have pushed for the leadership role or at least tried to give it to a team mate rather than fob it off on Stan. I also like to give him a little push early and see how much he wants to fight me.

All 3 could easily be town. If I was pushed to shoot between them today then I would kill Monkey. When they are town mafia usually save you the trouble reading them. Like Sorian died N1 in mini mafia. I know because we got into a dumb argument in spec.
 

Brazil

(tofubeats Remix)
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
6,190
São Paulo, Brazil
Brazil What do you think about CeeCee now that he said that he don' have 3-shots?
I never believed that he had 3-shots (I think the most powerful vig I've seen was Gorlak in Buffy as a 2-shot, and that already felt absurdly powerful), so the revelation itself didn't move me at all.

I'm feeling worse about him, however, because of the reasoning behind his lie. If he really wanted to draw a NK to himself, he should've said that he had no more shots when questioned. That was the only possible answer that would potentially give scum pause. Even not revealing whether he had more shots or not would clearly indicate to scum that he was bluffing. Saying he was 3-shot is even more out there.

And then you have this post:

I will answer this, but tomorrow morning. I’m not trying to cop out, I just really badly need to go to sleep and I don’t want to get involved in a discussion and suddenly drop.
Which sounds fabricated because even after waiting until today to reveal his true claim he hasn't been "involved in a discussion" at all. He claimed and then disappeared just like he would've if he'd claimed before going to bed.

Sorry, Stan.
 

Brazil

(tofubeats Remix)
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
6,190
São Paulo, Brazil
They don't occupy the same portion of my brain. In ease of reading them I go Natiko, Monkey, Sorian.

I put Natiko in my town because there have been a couple of occassions where he posted something that i was thinking which is usually a good sign. Posting reads lists is something else I expected even in a big game like this. Natiko thinks similarly to me but is usually more analytical than evidence based than I am.

Monkey I am not sure. She is quite an even player and will hammer you with logic and reasoning that feels correct but I always feel she might do these things as mafia. I'm not surprised she didn't want to be leader on day 1. She is generally indecisive as town.

Sorian. He is pushing all the right buttons to get a town read. He seems like he is solving the game, his comments on Blarg are townie Sorian. The way he is pushing on a variety of people and giving unique reads is fine too. I think if he was scum he would actually have pushed for the leadership role or at least tried to give it to a team mate rather than fob it off on Stan. I also like to give him a little push early and see how much he wants to fight me.

All 3 could easily be town. If I was pushed to shoot between them today then I would kill Monkey. When they are town mafia usually save you the trouble reading them. Like Sorian died N1 in mini mafia. I know because we got into a dumb argument in spec.
I appreciate you taking the time to type all of that, but there's a link behind the word "this" in that post.

I will say, however, that I completely disagree with you on what scum!Sorian would do if he was scum. He'd 100% say that there'd be no point in risking scum's skin in the leadership game when town's most likely going to miss a shot like that on D1 when left to its own devices.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,049
I freaked out after realizing a potential consequence of the modifier and Fran's claim: I had the horrible thought of people quickly placing votes for their top scum reads as a way of getting a head start on those lynches, and galactic brain Fran incentivizing voting until the point where he can't be lynched anymore because there aren't enough players with their votes not cast. It lead me to be hasty and tell my read ASAP, the delivery could had been better I admit.

Take into account at that time it wasn't clear that Fran would use the Override and I at the time I doubted anyone would had voted for him so even as town he could had gotten away with.



Right now I'm leaning town on Flux so from my POV that list doen't look good, also zubz is last, who I don't have reasons to trust.

Early game vig isn't very pro town, I think scum would had gambited on keeping ceecee despite the risks.
I dunno how to read the first half of this, as in I don’t get it. Second half is eh, maybe. Depends on too many factors.

Sawneeks, why did you ask the people you asked?

not sure if I should be flattered or insulted that Faddy would kill me over Sorian, but it is the Faddyest thing he’s said all game to my eye, so....

Still have small concern Sorian is neutral.

Am I the only person who thinks rac is fine? Do I have a pro-rac bias?

I know this might sound a bit unreliable coming from me, but I really think you need to branch out and consider your other options a little more closely. Your reasons for voting for me are mainly that I'm fairly inactive, which while I can admit isn't great, isn't this end-all be-all scum tell that you're thinking that it is.
KetKat, if you were the godking, what would you do today? What if you had to choose among the top ten posters so far (since day one) by volume?
Very close to locking in on CeeCee, but there's no real point to do it now. I'll wait.

7/30

Btw, Grizzly, your post #2,436 said I had 5 posts, but my fifth post was right below that one. I think I've been counting correctly.
I still really want an answer to this and I want to hear more post Ceecee’s update.
These make no sense

Why would you expect Flux or Fran to die over a proven day vig? Or someone with far more town cred than either of those two?


If they wanted a low info kill there were players like myself that would give literally 0 information about anything due to a lack of meaningful interactions. Geno had actual conversations.


I voted for this one because on Wednesday night's I'm playing in a Call of Cthulhu game. My character died last week, eaten by a Hunter in the Sky. Good a reason as any, right? Right.

There is 0 indication of what each modifier is based on game title, so I'm not sure why you're discussing it like it is.


Yes, I would have seen that without you wasting a post...


I'm suddenly having Batman Mafia flashbacks, to a sniper that took days to set up a shot that never came, because it was all a lie... granted, Stan did die so that's at least something. But a day vig that can't shoot twice in a day, can't shoot consecutive days and doesn't claim in thread? crazy


I did say it wasn't a great use of BP or a day vig shot.


Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one questioning the Geno pick instead of being all "that makes sense". No, it doesn't. I'm going to be the one to say it: It makes me wonder if Geno was the actual target.
Anyone want to close read this with me? Other than the speculation on a switcher it feels like mostly summary. I know we are circling but the thread is slower - surely we could now get more analysis?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,049
Will waste another precious post to add: I would really like to push hard on the lower posters here, even my boy rac, because we need fresh perspectives.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,221
I appreciate you taking the time to type all of that, but there's a link behind the word "this" in that post.

I will say, however, that I completely disagree with you on what scum!Sorian would do if he was scum. He'd 100% say that there'd be no point in risking scum's skin in the leadership game when town's most likely going to miss a shot like that on D1 when left to its own devices.
The this. I think you went very heavy handed on Fran after Chugg had given his scum read on him. I am of the belief that was Town/Town and am accusing you of trying to capitalise on the situation. What is your opinion on Chuggernaut right now?

I don't think you should doubt Sorian's brazenness as scum but maybe you know better since you were with him in HvV and Buffy iirc?
 

Pirate Bae

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,782
??
I don't have any specific reads, but I am pretty confused on why people are voting for Stanley as the leader. It feels like there has been a crap-ton of discussion on who would be best to pick and who we can trust and then all of the people on his vote seemed to just pick him for no particular reason or in Sorian's case liking the idea that he's a wild card and can make things predictable. Why are you all jumping onto this train in particular after all of this discussion?
I'm more interested in seeing what Brazil does with the leadership position than stan. And the votes on stan are all too wishy-washy for me as it is.

Vote: Brazil
Scum
You, fantomas. There's something off about the way that you've been spreading doubt around on others. You are right that this is how I played conspiracy, but before when I was acting goofier, you were already talking about how similar it was. It feels like you've been throwing out a lot of reasons and seeing what others will latch onto. And I'm not sure I like it.
Ceecee - same sentiments as others here, I don't know how ceecee plays though so this might just be strange normal plays
I don't like the idea of leashing someone that we think is a neutral or scum. We're just giving them more opportunities to harm town more than anything. They can go along with the plans when it's beneficial to them, but the instant that it's not, they can just turn around and go against what everyone is saying. There's no risk for this person because they were already on the chopping block so any extra kills that they get are beneficial for them.
Fran

She has been scumhunting, in her own way. They're not particularly strong reads, which also concerns me slightly, but with everything else taken into consideration that I already mentioned previously, I think she's just lazy town. Her strongest one so far has been Fantomas, which I think has a little bit of merit to it.

Most of her reads yesterday were regarding the leader, but I think this is fair when you also remember that A) It was D1 with little to no information and B) only gut reads, plus a limiting voting mechanic that took power away from town and the majority.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,576
Feeling a little unhappy that FluxWaveZ and CeeCee have not answered my questions.
What does this mean? I assume you wanted someone to ask you or you wouldn't have left this hanging.
This what you're referring to? I wasn't intent on having anyone ask me about that. It was the usual threat of voting for CeeCee because he's the one I wanted to see lynched the most, and his nebulousness regarding his role made me just want to go ahead and do it there.

Point's moot now, though. I don't think lynching him would be worth it after his role claim.

Those I wouldn't want to see lynched:
  1. CeeCee: The whole thing's a mess. So much so, that there's no proper indication of scumminess, either. The shot on Stanley was said to have been OMGUS driven, and the lie for number of shots so that scum would potentially target him for a night kill (also why he continued being vague about it). He basically claimed his shot, when he didn't even need to, because it was a way of trying to wave his towniness flag to everyone when suspicion on him had already been piling up, to the point that he could very well have been D1's target. It would have looked pretty good if Stanley did end up being scum. In the end, it was just a terrible plan.
    1. The only thing that still makes me wonder is that the shot didn't need to have a command associated with it in the thread. Would a day vig. really just be able to stealth kill like that in a game like this?
    2. Blah blah flip flopping. I know.
  2. Ketkat: Clearly operating solo, like I am. There's no guiding hand there. Combined with her lack of presence (despite still having several posts) and hard stances, this makes her an easy target for scum to gun for without looking suspicious themselves. I find this push towards her unconvincing, when the main reasons are the aforementioned, but when there are other players here that would also fit or be even more appropriate. Her responses haven't conveyed ulterior motives, and they've been pretty open and brash.
  3. Sawneeks: Agree with her reads and most of her arguments.
  4. Pirate Bae: Agree with her reads. Particularly regarding Ketkat, while many others are calling for her head.
  5. Brazil: Have had town vibes for the most part, and I like his reads list.
Have a thought for who I'd want to see lynched. Right now, Fantomas is looking like the one. But that's kind of a passing thought, I'll elaborate later.

Also, Sorian, I find it odd that you've had two posts asking for where I might have specifically hinted at a PR during the previous day phase. You really want evidence of that, huh.

8/10
 

Fantomas

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,884
Ok, I have returned from an ISO on Zubz. Overall I'd say I have some townie thoughts, but there are some concerns more recently.

Posts #1133 and #1631 in particular I felt pretty good about. First one was giving some responses to me and Monkey. It just reads townish to me, I actually kind of like they just admitted they voted Stan because Monkey and Sorian were. Second one was their first post on 1.5 and it felt like a genuine "Ok, let's sit down and play some Mafia" post to me. Lots of thoughts and opinions poured out in that one.

There are some spots where I do feel like they have been kind of shamelessly sheeping me though. Like in posts #1636, and maybe a bit in #1657 as well, just because I was having that conversation with Saw and it felt like Zubz was trying to pop in to give towny thoughts to go along with the crowd maybe.

One other concern I have is that they had not been mentioning Ketkat as a "source of suspicion" until today really. They kind of sheeped along when Ket first responded to me and gave her scum read on me in #1673 by asking for her two top Town (still no where to be found I might add. Is this going to be a meme?) But then today, after I had quoted them in a post that also included a quote with rac about my read on Ket, they decide now that Ketkat is one of their biggest suspects in post #2499. And just a slight correction for that last post, they meant to thank me because I was the one who quoted them there, but they said Brazil instead.

Would like to hear other thoughts on this for sure. I'm going to be going through Flux next most likely.

------------------------------------------------

Now just to hit some quotes here in the same post:
Remind me again, is she still your top read?
Until she can do something that shows me why she shouldn't be, yes.
No, Brazil, I think it's fair. I have been re-reading and looking at things and frankly that's how I feel about a lot of people. I think the vote data is part of it, as y'all pointed out, but I also think a lot of people are being reserved, and the combination of the two is creating some stagnation. I don't even know what I have to say that's new at this point. Feels like a holding pattern.
Yep, it's all just a waiting game until D3 honestly. Your point earlier about how this is like the first few days in GoT is so spot on, Scum loves this shit where Town just has decisions and normal voting taken out of their hands.
Am I the only person who thinks rac is fine? Do I have a pro-rac bias?
Nah, I feel pretty good about him honestly. Could use a full reread to see everything in context, but it seems like he's coming from a pro-Town point of view when he comes in to ask some questions. Like when he asked me last night about why he wouldn't fall under the same spot as Ketkat does in my mind, felt legit, like he wanted to get me to point out why I think Ketkat is different from someone else not posting a whole lot, like him.
Will waste another precious post to add: I would really like to push hard on the lower posters here, even my boy rac, because we need fresh perspectives.
Yeah, I definitely want to hear from Zubz after looking back on their posts.

I'll also give a shout out to absolutbro to get some reads from him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
I'm working from both ends of the thread, so there will be new post responses then old quotes for basic reads. Which will be basic, because there is no chance I'm going to read back through 2,000+ posts.

AbsolutBro - About midway through Day 1 I felt alright on AB. He hadn't been much of a presence, but he seemed to be putting in work to catch up. He was posting some catch-up thoughts and overall while it didn't seem particularly useful, it felt like something scum wouldn't do when it wasn't gaining much of a response from other players. Where it falls apart though is he not only stopped that approach, but that time didn't get re-invested anywhere else. I've played with a scum AB before and this is starting to feel more and more like that.
Going to be honest, I do not remember which game you're talking about. I vaguely remember being on a scum team with you, but I can't remember which game it was.

I don't think you should doubt Sorian's brazenness as scum but maybe you know better since you were with him in HvV and Buffy iirc?
Never, ever think that scum!Sorian won't try some ridiculously insane gambit or lie. From town hooker to the "two-day prep sniper shot", Sorian can and will give you the most bold faced lie and people will believe it. This isn't shade. This is speaking from pure shameful experience of being in both of those games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,651
Okay, pure 100% God's honest truth.

I am town day vig, that’s all true. However, I only had the one shot.

The stuff about having 3 shots was to try and bait scum to NK me rather than someone valuable.
Groan intensifies. I just..can't.

if you listen closely, you can hear Stan yelling all the way from the spec chat

the sweet sound of fucks on the wind

I am gonna have to agree with GodKing Fran here - shooting Stan probably was not the best move if you wanted to bait a night kill, though I can certainly buy this reasoning. Will you give us your name? (ftr, I don't think everyone should, but I want to know who CeeCee is to see if he will just answer).

Anyway, Fran and my opinion aside, that does make me wonder - if CeeCee is telling the truth - if scum had a concrete reason to think CeeCee would be more likely to shoot town (numbers? the scum pool?). But that gets into a lot of speculation.
What relevance does someone's name have? Not a fan of this when it's not uncommon to have a hunter-like role in games with assigned names.

This, to me, screams town. Of course, it could be interpreted as careful scum, but then why announce it to the thread? Ketkat in general doesn't seem overly concerned with the many scum reads coming her way, and to be frank, I think she's low hanging fruit for people to latch on to. Her posts and reads are so vague (I don't think it's intentional, if GoT is anything to go by this is her posting style but that's just a guess) that it would be so easy to call her lazy, coasting scum, but she has enough of a presence to put her on many people's radars anyway.




To be honest, I think this is a fair point. Again, it's such a brash post for scum to make that it makes me believe she is town. I don't think there is a scenario in which scum would make a post as brazen as this. Several people even brought it up about how scummy it was for her to tell them how to play the game, but I'm really not seeing Ketkat as some evil mastermind because of it. This reads like she's just playing the game at her own pace without the fear of repercussions, which is usually a town behavior in my experience.

I think she also has a fair point about activity and how it's NAI. There should be more concrete proof that she's scum, otherwise she's just an easy target and I'm not super comfortable with the people who are so quick to scumread her.



These are the two main posts that make me lean town on Ketkat. My overall theory is this: her posts are SO suspect, so few and far between, that I can't imagine scum making them. Of course, this is a completely meta read, but scum are usually more careful than this. With their own chat to bounce ideas and reads off each other, scum posts are typically more refined instead of knee-jerk reactions or thoughts. All of Ketkat's post seem unpolished, unedited, just like she's jotting her thoughts down without any direct course of action. The rest of her observations aren't really worth bringing up, IMO, since they involve already discussed mechanics / balance. There are few reads in her posts, minus one to Fantomas (which seems very reactionary considering he had just finished a lengthy post in which he scumread her hardcore,) but I'm not sure if that's a town defensive maneuver or a scum one. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and say that it was out of frustration, but I don't know for sure. I can't answer that.

I think a lot of attention has been brought to Ketkat because she's an easy target to distract people and mislead them, so I need to go back and see who actually started the scumread train on her.
I'm not sure I could disagree more with a post. We both oversaw GOT and the Ketkat I've seen thus far this game is not the one we saw in GOT. There has been nearly zero attempt to solve whatsoever. I have no idea what benefit there even is to bringing activity up again when that is not the issue.

Why is it that you have only half been paying attention yet you come out with such a thorough, long-winded defense of Ketkat? Honestly this is maybe the biggest red flag I've seen from you yet.

Faddy please answer this

I've also noticed that Sorian, Monkey and Natiko occupy a very similar portion of my brain in all the games we play together. I don't know if it's due to respect or what, but I just can't settle on one particular way to feel about them, so I end up suspecting them non-stop. I was wrong about this in Mini Mafia IIII, but here I am once again. These are the only three players that always throw me for a loop like this, and I frankly hate that they're all here together.

I thought that Monkey reacting to cabot's (?) observation about Fandorin's joke about Sophia felt forced, and it's crossed my mind a couple of times that Natiko may be trying to pocket me.
Sorian: Nearly a MU Champion
Monkey: Nearly a MU Champion
Natiko: Uhhh

At least I'm getting better then lol

This what you're referring to? I wasn't intent on having anyone ask me about that. It was the usual threat of voting for CeeCee because he's the one I wanted to see lynched the most, and his nebulousness regarding his role made me just want to go ahead and do it there.

Point's moot now, though. I don't think lynching him would be worth it after his role claim.

Those I wouldn't want to see lynched:
  1. CeeCee: The whole thing's a mess. So much so, that there's no proper indication of scumminess, either. The shot on Stanley was said to have been OMGUS driven, and the lie for number of shots so that scum would potentially target him for a night kill (also why he continued being vague about it). He basically claimed his shot, when he didn't even need to, because it was a way of trying to wave his towniness flag to everyone when suspicion on him had already been piling up, to the point that he could very well have been D1's target. It would have looked pretty good if Stanley did end up being scum. In the end, it was just a terrible plan.
    1. The only thing that still makes me wonder is that the shot didn't need to have a command associated with it in the thread. Would a day vig. really just be able to stealth kill like that in a game like this?
    2. Blah blah flip flopping. I know.
  2. Ketkat: Clearly operating solo, like I am. There's no guiding hand there. Combined with her lack of presence (despite still having several posts) and hard stances, this makes her an easy target for scum to gun for without looking suspicious themselves. I find this push towards her unconvincing, when the main reasons are the aforementioned, but when there are other players here that would also fit or be even more appropriate. Her responses haven't conveyed ulterior motives, and they've been pretty open and brash.
  3. Sawneeks: Agree with her reads and most of her arguments.
  4. Pirate Bae: Agree with her reads. Particularly regarding Ketkat, while many others are calling for her head.
  5. Brazil: Have had town vibes for the most part, and I like his reads list.
Have a thought for who I'd want to see lynched. Right now, Fantomas is looking like the one. But that's kind of a passing thought, I'll elaborate later.

Also, Sorian, I find it odd that you've had two posts asking for where I might have specifically hinted at a PR during the previous day phase. You really want evidence of that, huh.

8/10
Not sure what I think about this reads list. It's interesting in that it takes a few of the more discussed players that people are leaning scum on and pushes for them to all be in the clear. Would scum include multiple scum in a list like this? My mind wants to say no, but Flux might be at the stage where he thinks his death is getting likely and is hoping to throw people on a 'would he or wouldn't he' type of thing. Not really super relevant right now, but it could be a good post to come back to in the future.

Overall I'm liking what I'm seeing from Fantomas since my reads. Feeling even more positive in that read. The modifier sucks because I feel like between that and Fran this day is overall very subdued. Few posts = few fresh thoughts and interactions to gain insightful reads from. Plus so many mega posts it gets harder to really pull out pertinent chunks as it can blend together (I know I'm super guilty of this but playing on mobile does not fit well for breaking them up into multiple chunks). I think I saw Fran say he was leaning towards turmoil for the kill which is a good choice. He's one of my top scum and his explanation for his PR post honestly made so little sense to me I didn't even know what to say.

Post #8
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,651
I'm working from both ends of the thread, so there will be new post responses then old quotes for basic reads. Which will be basic, because there is no chance I'm going to read back through 2,000+ posts.


Going to be honest, I do not remember which game you're talking about. I vaguely remember being on a scum team with you, but I can't remember which game it was.


Never, ever think that scum!Sorian won't try some ridiculously insane gambit or lie. From town hooker to the "two-day prep sniper shot", Sorian can and will give you the most bold faced lie and people will believe it. This isn't shade. This is speaking from pure shameful experience of being in both of those games.
Dangonronpa 3 I believe. Feels like an eternity ago tbh, I think you died fairly early.

Post #9
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,576
You know what I find interesting, Natiko? You've mentioned me multiple times—mainly about how much you want to see me lynched—yet you've never once addressed me directly. Everything from you is always addressing me in third-person, as if you'd rather not interact directly but voice to the populace how suspect I might be instead. I wonder if this has been the case with other people you've been targeting; would need to look back.

9/30
 

Brazil

(tofubeats Remix)
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
6,190
São Paulo, Brazil
The this. I think you went very heavy handed on Fran after Chugg had given his scum read on him. I am of the belief that was Town/Town and am accusing you of trying to capitalise on the situation. What is your opinion on Chuggernaut right now?
You've got the order of events completely wrong. Chugger x Fran only started being a thing after I criticized Fran for the turmoil/malus thing. If anything, Chugger was the one trying to capitalize on that.

This is a weird conversation. Right off the bat turmoil7 figured that that's what Natiko and Sorian were both proposing (it reads to me that Sorian was just weighing the possibility, though), and you even seemed supportive of the idea.
Okay, this all is real intresting
People like Monkey and Kyan even accused Chugger of parroting others. Chugger's big post on Fran was a few pages after that. Look at how Fanto puts it:

And to follow from this, Chugg first started really paying attention to Fran following Brazil's read on Fran, which was the following morning after he mentioned Fran to me when I subbed in. Later that day is when Fran started scum reading Chugg, and then they had some back and forths, which quieted down a bit until Chugg came back with the big post after a few hours of nothing.

Just wanted to get this timeline all sorted out, because I am still scum reading Chugg here.
I even told Chugger to cut it out with that forced "thunderdome" talk.

Regarding how I feel about him today, this about covers it. He's giving me mixed signals, but leaning more to the negative side. I don't like his claim, and the fact is that he hasn't yet shown up to leave his reads behind to help town as he said he would.

I don't think you should doubt Sorian's brazenness as scum but maybe you know better since you were with him in HvV and Buffy iirc?
That's right. Sorian is definitely brazen with reads and stances inside the thread, but when it comes to strategizing for the whole scum team around mechanics (and HvV was full of those), I find him way more careful and shrewd.
 

Pirate Bae

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,782
??
I'm not sure I could disagree more with a post. We both oversaw GOT and the Ketkat I've seen thus far this game is not the one we saw in GOT. There has been nearly zero attempt to solve whatsoever. I have no idea what benefit there even is to bringing activity up again when that is not the issue.

Why is it that you have only half been paying attention yet you come out with such a thorough, long-winded defense of Ketkat? Honestly this is maybe the biggest red flag I've seen from you yet.
Tons of people have been bringing up activity levels. For me, for other posters such as AB, rac, KetKat, Zubz, malus, etc. So I addressed it. To see it as a moot point is just wrong. It's always a constant point of contention in this community, no matter what.

I am defending Ket because I believe this is very similar to how she played in GoT. I think she's town. Maybe we just have different perspectives on it, which is fine. But to call me flat out wrong and a "red flag" is just obtuse.

Why are you suddenly so defensive about it, anyway? Did I strike a nerve somewhere?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,744
Will waste another precious post to add: I would really like to push hard on the lower posters here, even my boy rac, because we need fresh perspectives.
Quoted this one since it’s shorter. race isn’t really pinging me completely as town. He’s not doing any follow through at all and I can usually expect at least a little something. I’m not condoning his lynch today though. It feels too much like a guess and there’s nothing to really gain from it either if wrong.

This what you're referring to? I wasn't intent on having anyone ask me about that. It was the usual threat of voting for CeeCee because he's the one I wanted to see lynched the most, and his nebulousness regarding his role made me just want to go ahead and do it there.

Point's moot now, though. I don't think lynching him would be worth it after his role claim.

Those I wouldn't want to see lynched:
  1. CeeCee: The whole thing's a mess. So much so, that there's no proper indication of scumminess, either. The shot on Stanley was said to have been OMGUS driven, and the lie for number of shots so that scum would potentially target him for a night kill (also why he continued being vague about it). He basically claimed his shot, when he didn't even need to, because it was a way of trying to wave his towniness flag to everyone when suspicion on him had already been piling up, to the point that he could very well have been D1's target. It would have looked pretty good if Stanley did end up being scum. In the end, it was just a terrible plan.
    1. The only thing that still makes me wonder is that the shot didn't need to have a command associated with it in the thread. Would a day vig. really just be able to stealth kill like that in a game like this?
    2. Blah blah flip flopping. I know.
  2. Ketkat: Clearly operating solo, like I am. There's no guiding hand there. Combined with her lack of presence (despite still having several posts) and hard stances, this makes her an easy target for scum to gun for without looking suspicious themselves. I find this push towards her unconvincing, when the main reasons are the aforementioned, but when there are other players here that would also fit or be even more appropriate. Her responses haven't conveyed ulterior motives, and they've been pretty open and brash.
  3. Sawneeks: Agree with her reads and most of her arguments.
  4. Pirate Bae: Agree with her reads. Particularly regarding Ketkat, while many others are calling for her head.
  5. Brazil: Have had town vibes for the most part, and I like his reads list.
Have a thought for who I'd want to see lynched. Right now, Fantomas is looking like the one. But that's kind of a passing thought, I'll elaborate later.

Also, Sorian, I find it odd that you've had two posts asking for where I might have specifically hinted at a PR during the previous day phase. You really want evidence of that, huh.

8/10
Yeah, absolutely, the was a really weird pull from turmoil and I want to know why it came about. The weak shade is worthless, if I were scum I’d just ask what the fuck he was talking about in scum chat. More eyes means odds are likely someone noticed it or felt inclined enough to go back and search. Aside from Fanto, do you have any other scum leans? Your not lynch list removes a lot of people that others are interested in.


I'm working from both ends of the thread, so there will be new post responses then old quotes for basic reads. Which will be basic, because there is no chance I'm going to read back through 2,000+ posts.


Going to be honest, I do not remember which game you're talking about. I vaguely remember being on a scum team with you, but I can't remember which game it was.


Never, ever think that scum!Sorian won't try some ridiculously insane gambit or lie. From town hooker to the "two-day prep sniper shot", Sorian can and will give you the most bold faced lie and people will believe it. This isn't shade. This is speaking from pure shameful experience of being in both of those games.
Hey now, it only took one day of prep, I just got roleblocked and had to start over.

It makes complete sense!
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,230
On the day of the resurrection of our lord and savior Tales of Vesperia, you are just going to say it’s fine? Disgusting.
I think it's the white background. Also I miss the beanie.

I will say, however, that I completely disagree with you on what scum!Sorian would do if he was scum. He'd 100% say that there'd be no point in risking scum's skin in the leadership game when town's most likely going to miss a shot like that on D1 when left to its own devices.
100% agree with this.

She has been scumhunting, in her own way. They're not particularly strong reads, which also concerns me slightly, but with everything else taken into consideration that I already mentioned previously, I think she's just lazy town. Her strongest one so far has been Fantomas, which I think has a little bit of merit to it.

Most of her reads yesterday were regarding the leader, but I think this is fair when you also remember that A) It was D1 with little to no information and B) only gut reads, plus a limiting voting mechanic that took power away from town and the majority.
But after the leader was decided and we began 1.5 there was little content from Ketkat besides defending herself. Maybe it's just me. I think this is the first game I played with Ketkat.

I would love to read your answer to this question that Monkey made to Ketkat:

KetKat, if you were the godking, what would you do today? What if you had to choose among the top ten posters so far (since day one) by volume?
Have a thought for who I'd want to see lynched. Right now, Fantomas is looking like the one. But that's kind of a passing thought, I'll elaborate later.
Someone else besides Fantomas? Besides that, your list is interesting. How do you feel about Zubz, Pirate Bae and Rac.

Would like to hear other thoughts on this for sure. I'm going to be going through Flux next most likely.
Honestly, even with those post, Zubz content is really lacking. To me is in a grey zone where if I try to recall any of his opinions I have nothing.

I'm working from both ends of the thread, so there will be new post responses then old quotes for basic reads. Which will be basic, because there is no chance I'm going to read back through 2,000+ posts.
At this point you need to start posting anything because there is barely anything to look from you. Having barely any opinions during D2 is no good in my book.

What relevance does someone's name have? Not a fan of this when it's not uncommon to have a hunter-like role in games with assigned names.
I agree with this and Monkey, as a veteran, should know better. In a cosplay game like this it wouldn't be too weird to have some killer that needs to find a target.

Why is it that you have only half been paying attention yet you come out with such a thorough, long-winded defense of Ketkat? Honestly this is maybe the biggest red flag I've seen from you yet.
Did I told you that I like your posts? Because this is a really good post.
 
Oct 25, 2017
733
Tomato
Outsider POV says that Yarr Bae is scum and she is sucking up to a townie (yumyum chocolate Ketkat is now kitkat).

Insider POV says that this ain't impossible. Though when it comes to actual alignment casting and Yarr Bae, she inhabits a strange position of ???.
 

Brazil

(tofubeats Remix)
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
6,190
São Paulo, Brazil
Ok, I have returned from an ISO on Zubz. Overall I'd say I have some townie thoughts, but there are some concerns more recently.

Posts #1133 and #1631 in particular I felt pretty good about. First one was giving some responses to me and Monkey. It just reads townish to me, I actually kind of like they just admitted they voted Stan because Monkey and Sorian were. Second one was their first post on 1.5 and it felt like a genuine "Ok, let's sit down and play some Mafia" post to me. Lots of thoughts and opinions poured out in that one.

There are some spots where I do feel like they have been kind of shamelessly sheeping me though. Like in posts #1636, and maybe a bit in #1657 as well, just because I was having that conversation with Saw and it felt like Zubz was trying to pop in to give towny thoughts to go along with the crowd maybe.

One other concern I have is that they had not been mentioning Ketkat as a "source of suspicion" until today really. They kind of sheeped along when Ket first responded to me and gave her scum read on me in #1673 by asking for her two top Town (still no where to be found I might add. Is this going to be a meme?) But then today, after I had quoted them in a post that also included a quote with rac about my read on Ket, they decide now that Ketkat is one of their biggest suspects in post #2499. And just a slight correction for that last post, they meant to thank me because I was the one who quoted them there, but they said Brazil instead.

Would like to hear other thoughts on this for sure. I'm going to be going through Flux next most likely..
If Zubz sheeping other people seems to be your biggest concern, how come you consider it a good look when they outright said that they're voting for Stan because Sorian and Monkey are doing the same?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,651
You know what I find interesting, Natiko? You've mentioned me multiple times—mainly about how much you want to see me lynched—yet you've never once addressed me directly. Everything from you is always addressing me in third-person, as if you'd rather not interact directly but voice to the populace how suspect I might be instead. I wonder if this has been the case with other people you've been targeting; would need to look back.

9/30
The reasoning being the read on you developed over the course of discussion with other players - I don't have to interact directly with you to analyze your posts. It also comes from your push to kill CeeCee while justifying it even if he's town which I had already explained in detail regarding Geno.

Tons of people have been bringing up activity levels. For me, for other posters such as AB, rac, KetKat, Zubz, malus, etc. So I addressed it. To see it as a moot point is just wrong. It's always a constant point of contention in this community, no matter what.

I am defending Ket because I believe this is very similar to how she played in GoT. I think she's town. Maybe we just have different perspectives on it, which is fine. But to call me flat out wrong and a "red flag" is just obtuse.

Why are you suddenly so defensive about it, anyway? Did I strike a nerve somewhere?
I'm not defensive about it - I'm pointing out that I believe your argument to be A) Flawed and B) An outlier compared to a large majority of your posts.

I'm going to take notice when someone has a post that seems counter to the tone of a majority of their previous posts. You put more work into defending Ketkat then you have for most (all?) of your scumreads.

Post #10
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,368
I just wanted to point out that these are the reads on me that I agree with the most right now. Not Ketkat's, she's Scum and that's just OMGUS, but Faddy's own observation on me there I like. I have been playing things safe, mainly because when I look around the room I see a lot of veteran players and a lot of situations I have not found myself in yet, so I'm trying to lean on my Town reads a lot more than I normally would, especially this early.
I'm just going to ignore the stuff you're asking me and focus elsewhere for now Fanto. This is the most tunnely post I've seen from someone in a while, where someone shares my sentiments but mine doesn't count for some reason. There's no way to argue against that when you're 100% set.


Ketkat You had a scum lean on Fantomas and a weak lean on CeeCee. What do you think about the other posters that I have in my "Like to lynch" list? (Pirate Bae, FluxWaveZ, nin, TheChuggernaut, Zubz, turmoil7)
nin - No opinion really. He wasn't in the game very long, and he's dropped out. I'm very much on a wait and see attitude with whoever his replacement ends up being.

Pirate Bae - I feel pretty good about her really and she's definitely moving into a town read from me. It feels like she's willing to actually look past the easy answers that people are jumping on and try and solve the game.

FluxWaveZ - Feels fine to me? I'm reading through a lot of his posts and nothing really negative stands out to me.

TheChuggernaut - I'm not really sure how I feel about him honestly. Claiming a BP is certainly interesting, but I can understand his reasons for doing it. An override is hanging over his head, so it does make sense to claim. I probably wouldn't have claimed immediately but it does give us time to question it and look elsewhere at the same time. If he does have a BP, killing him would be a big mistake.

Zubz - I have no real opinion on them at all either, and can't really recall any of their posts. That might be a cause for concern, but I'll read back over them later too.

turmoil7 - There's not much here to be honest, so I'm not sure I understand what exactly people are scum reading on outside of primarily activity.

CeeCee - I'll add this one here too in light of the further claim. I had a pretty strong feeling that he wasn't really a 3-shot DayVig that can PM his commands, but this doesn't clear him as just a 1-shot for town either. It's entirely possible that he's a JOAT, or just lying to get us off his back for a bit. As it stands, I still don't feel too great about him, but he's not at the top of my list. A 1-shot DayVig that can PM commands is strong, but not completely out of the realm for town imo.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,576
Yeah, absolutely, the was a really weird pull from turmoil and I want to know why it came about. The weak shade is worthless, if I were scum I’d just ask what the fuck he was talking about in scum chat. More eyes means odds are likely someone noticed it or felt inclined enough to go back and search. Aside from Fanto, do you have any other scum leans? Your not lynch list removes a lot of people that others are interested in.
Scum chat reasoning for missing it yourself and being able to have others check it for you works. But there could also be other reasons for bringing it up, like trying to subtly alter the flow of conversation or point more attention to potential breadcrumbs.

Anyways, I agree that I still don't like Turmoil's opening statements regarding it, or his reasoning for having made them in the first place.
The reasoning being the read on you developed over the course of discussion with other players - I don't have to interact directly with you to analyze your posts. It also comes from your push to kill CeeCee while justifying it even if he's town which I had already explained in detail regarding Geno.
That reasoning doesn't work when it applies to innocuous posts like even this one:
Is it a scum tell to talk about yourself in the third person? Someone help.
It's essentially nothingness, yet you still had to call it out in public referring to me in third-person. Again, key word is "interesting."
Someone else besides Fantomas? Besides that, your list is interesting. How do you feel about Zubz, Pirate Bae and Rac.
Pirate Bae's in my list of those I wouldn't want to see lynched. Preliminary list for those I'd like to see lynched are:
  1. Fantomas
  2. turmoil7
  3. Faddy
But, again, these are vague in my mind right now, and I want to make a follow-up post for why those 3 are the ones I'm thinking about.

10/30
 
Oct 25, 2017
733
Tomato
Faddy is so inoffensive that he must be town

bear pls give post count is hard to count

On other ppl list Kyaaa inhabits strange slot of somewhat of a town. Kyaaa thinks Natiko is that for Kyaaa. Mabby townie should be hopefully mabby.

...

Overall, fuck this day. I'd blame Stan for dying if it wasn't hella mean. Seeing votes would be nice.

Ketkat Please, do something that is not asked of you. Answering to what is asked of you is kk. Really, Kitkat is that meme where anything she does is offensive.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,049
This is probably my last one for a while since I want to leave ample room for tomorrow and I'm sweating the limit again. I know you're laughing, Grizzly. I can feel it.

Please let us state for the record that AbBro showed up and didn't do much again. Re: rac - I didn't grab the Sorian quote but to Sorian: he's not being an active scumhunting town, no, but he's had some fair shots out there. I do hope he returns and does more today but he's pinging on town side for me for sure.
What relevance does someone's name have? Not a fan of this when it's not uncommon to have a hunter-like role in games with assigned names.
That's why I don't want anyone else's. But I'd like to see CeeCee just do something straightforward and that seemed like a safe thing to ask of just one person. Sometimes I get the sense that CeeCee thinks he has been mostly forthcoming while trying to gambit a little and since I don't feel that way, I just wanted to ask him a straightforward question. But nada.
Regarding how I feel about him today, this about covers it. He's giving me mixed signals, but leaning more to the negative side. I don't like his claim, and the fact is that he hasn't yet shown up to leave his reads behind to help town as he said he would.
Same. I think I'd have been much more likely to put him townside but the naked self pres and lack of anything else today makes it hard to see anything pro-town coming out of this whole situation, especially the way it all happened.
Honestly, even with those post, Zubz content is really lacking. To me is in a grey zone where if I try to recall any of his opinions I have nothing.
Partially that's because Zubz was openly sheeping, so not only has there been little content, a lot of it has been recycled.
This what you're referring to? I wasn't intent on having anyone ask me about that. It was the usual threat of voting for CeeCee because he's the one I wanted to see lynched the most, and his nebulousness regarding his role made me just want to go ahead and do it there.

Point's moot now, though. I don't think lynching him would be worth it after his role claim.

Those I wouldn't want to see lynched:
  1. CeeCee: The whole thing's a mess. So much so, that there's no proper indication of scumminess, either. The shot on Stanley was said to have been OMGUS driven, and the lie for number of shots so that scum would potentially target him for a night kill (also why he continued being vague about it). He basically claimed his shot, when he didn't even need to, because it was a way of trying to wave his towniness flag to everyone when suspicion on him had already been piling up, to the point that he could very well have been D1's target. It would have looked pretty good if Stanley did end up being scum. In the end, it was just a terrible plan.
    1. The only thing that still makes me wonder is that the shot didn't need to have a command associated with it in the thread. Would a day vig. really just be able to stealth kill like that in a game like this?
    2. Blah blah flip flopping. I know.
  2. Ketkat: Clearly operating solo, like I am. There's no guiding hand there. Combined with her lack of presence (despite still having several posts) and hard stances, this makes her an easy target for scum to gun for without looking suspicious themselves. I find this push towards her unconvincing, when the main reasons are the aforementioned, but when there are other players here that would also fit or be even more appropriate. Her responses haven't conveyed ulterior motives, and they've been pretty open and brash.
  3. Sawneeks: Agree with her reads and most of her arguments.
  4. Pirate Bae: Agree with her reads. Particularly regarding Ketkat, while many others are calling for her head.
  5. Brazil: Have had town vibes for the most part, and I like his reads list.
Have a thought for who I'd want to see lynched. Right now, Fantomas is looking like the one. But that's kind of a passing thought, I'll elaborate later.

Also, Sorian, I find it odd that you've had two posts asking for where I might have specifically hinted at a PR during the previous day phase. You really want evidence of that, huh.

8/10
I'm torn here. On the one hand, I like actually seeing Flux go through how and why he's getting to things. On the other, I don't know that I actually like what I'm seeing. I'll go through it.
The explanation of the weird quote about CeeCee is okay, though I can't believe you didn't think anyone would ask you about it. The explanation of your questions about CeeCee is weird, though. So what about the command? Why do you think that matters and why should we speculate on the setup? Almost every time I've seen people making assumptions about gamerunner's commands or small decisions, it's been wrong and led people down the wrong path. What's the point anyway? Do you think something else killed Stan? Because if not, I'm not sure why this matters.

Second, the defense of KetKat is honestly a defense for you in part - that rhetorical slyness of adding in the bit about you does not go unnoticed. I'll also add that all KetKat really has to do for most people, I think, is engage. Why do you think she hasn't? If you want to defend her, why don't you engage her? Your critique of Natiko cuts both ways. Not much good to just file someone as town if no one else is going to, but if you think they are and it helps to create more people who can be filed one way or another... why not engage directly?

Third, Sneeks wanted to lynch CeeCee; are you saying you agreed with that in the past, or...? Which arguments of hers are you agreeing with? How do you feel about the discussions she's fostering around Febe and Brazil?

I feel like if I could talk to you more, I could figure you out, and then I do, and I am in the middle again.

Yep, it's all just a waiting game until D3 honestly. Your point earlier about how this is like the first few days in GoT is so spot on, Scum loves this shit where Town just has decisions and normal voting taken out of their hands.
yes, and now I have a renewed empathy about that whole set of shenanigans and why everyone was in a bad mood.

Oh, a wild KetKat has appeared while I was typing! I gotta go send some emails so I'll look into that more closely later. I think there was also something else I wanted to get to but I have forgotten. Oof, megaposts.

post count
cabot: 19 brazil: 15 dr. monkey: 14 thechuggernaut: 13 fran: 11 pirate bae: 11 fantomas: 11 sorian: 10 fluxwavez: 10 natiko: 10 kyanrute: 9 ceecee: 8 faddy: 8 sawneeks: 8 ketkat: 7 rac: 7fandorin: 6 blargonaut: 6 grizzly: 5 fireblend: 5 malus: 5 zubz: 4 turmoil7: 4 absolutbro: 3 geno: 1
 

Pirate Bae

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,782
??
But after the leader was decided and we began 1.5 there was little content from Ketkat besides defending herself. Maybe it's just me. I think this is the first game I played with Ketkat.

I would love to read your answer to this question that Monkey made to Ketkat:
That's what I'm trying to figure out. I know that's vague but it's partially why I made the read in the first place. See response to Kyan / Natiko below.

Outsider POV says that Yarr Bae is scum and she is sucking up to a townie (yumyum chocolate Ketkat is now kitkat).

Insider POV says that this ain't impossible. Though when it comes to actual alignment casting and Yarr Bae, she inhabits a strange position of ???.
Maybe it's less about the read and more about how people react to it. Like this:

I'm not defensive about it - I'm pointing out that I believe your argument to be A) Flawed and B) An outlier compared to a large majority of your posts.

I'm going to take notice when someone has a post that seems counter to the tone of a majority of their previous posts. You put more work into defending Ketkat then you have for most (all?) of your scumreads.

Post #10
Ketkat is low hanging fruit. She's a fairly inactive target with little to no strong, concrete posts. Easy for people to call her scummy just because of this.

I've never even mentioned Ketkat before today, so I don't know why you're trying to say I'm contradicting myself. I genuinely town read her.

Do you have a response to this?

I can answer that for you right now actually. It was Natiko. He was suspicious of her as early as post #127. He also made it clear in post #146. Post #258, again he's on Ketkat for a new reason now. Mentions her again in #320. And finally, he said if he were elected he would kill Ketkat in post #571.

I then entered the game, and I had already been reading Ketkat as scummy while following from the sidelines, for a lot of the same reasons as Natiko, and announced her as my top scum read.
 

rac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
823
rac and absolutbro Who do you think I should lynch today and who do you think I shouldn't lynch?
i have a lot of catching up to do but id probably go with fanto, just a weird feeling there

im not sure what to do concerning the chugg/ceecee/fran situation

and i feel like most of the thread is falling into easy lynches
flux, zubz, pirate bae and ketkat seemed to be the most agreed upon lynches correct?
im not sure how i read that
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,230
Pirate Bae - I feel pretty good about her really and she's definitely moving into a town read from me. It feels like she's willing to actually look past the easy answers that people are jumping on and try and solve the game.
What makes you think that she is trying to solve the game? Because all I'm seeing is she defending you mostly. And that is not how we win the game, finding scum is.

Pirate Bae's in my list of those I wouldn't want to see lynched. Preliminary list for those I'd like to see lynched are:
  1. Fantomas
  2. turmoil7
  3. Faddy
But, again, these are vague in my mind right now, and I want to make a follow-up post for why those 3 are the ones I'm thinking about.
You aren't anwering some of my points: How do you feel about Zubz and Rac?

Seeing votes would be nice.
You know that you can't change your vote after you made them, right?

Noone would tie their vote this early, even if I said that I would use an override.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,368
What makes you think that she is trying to solve the game? Because all I'm seeing is she defending you mostly. And that is not how we win the game, finding scum is.
She's trying to get some people to stop aiming for low activity posters and look towards actual arguments. It might not be directly solving the game or calling out who scum are, but trying to get people to focus on the larger picture is important to solving the game imo.

While there is a possibility that there's scum among low activity posters, the fact of the matter is, it's pretty NAI. It's something that both sides do for various reasons, but there have been plenty of town players in the past who are low activity. It's something to keep in mind, but that shouldn't be such a large crux of the argument towards anyone unless it's combined with something else.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
I'm sorting this first group out because I have the least meta information about them. I'm also not sure how to link a direct post, since the new boards seem to rely on page and post.

People with whom I have never played before (at least, I don't think I have):


Pirate Bae: I will call out that I was in Bar 1, but if you check the game I'm not even positive I posted more than a dozen times before dying. It was pretty shameful on my part. Anyway

Early on cautious discussion of the vote mechanic, with a decent back and forth with Fran. Interesting views on the leadership vote, wanting the ultimate leader to be able to go off-script (which is a stance I would have agreed with). Despite getting on Fran for avoiding leadership, sides with him over Chuggernaut in that spat. Not sure why. Leans town on and almost defends Ketkat, which could be scum knowledge but it seems a pretty genuine defense to me. Town lean, stronger than Ketkat, but not as strong as Fandorin. (i'm writing this sort of in reverse list order)


KetKat: Very cautious on D1, which is reasonable to me. Does call out the votes (including my own) that just pop-up on Stan with no explanation. Doesn't really do much beyond call them out though; no specific questions of those players (again myself included). Gets questions in on Ceecee after the Stan murder and calls out Fantomas for shade throwing, but no follow up on Fanto's response. Does comment on lack of RL sleep, with which I can heavily sympathize. Continues to question Ceecee on his role D2. Result: tentative town read, just above null. While lots of mechanical type questioning can be seen as easy scum posts, it's one of those thing I myself latch onto because mechanics tend to be solid


Fandorin: I lean pretty heavily town on Fandorin. He's been fairly open about either the reasoning or lack-thereof. #537 starts things and then when he agrees with Monkey later (559) he doesn't just say "I agree", it includes an explanation. 686 he points out that Fantomas comes in throwing shade at Ketkat, but nothing really comes from it. No follow up from either Fandorin or Fantomas; likely just an off-hand comment but it caught my eye. His back and forth with Terra (rip) seems town/town to me, since it would have been very easy for a scum player to really put Terra even more on the defensive than he already was. 1,046 doubles on the "votes should require an explanation", echoing Dr. Monkey from earlier. He's also one of the earlier voices in asking for votes, which is one of the few concrete trackable things (1,260). Stays hard on Ketkat himself (by which I mean keeps a solid suspicion, not relentlessly asking questions or anything), making the Fantomas call-out a little weird. Day 1.5 brings a small slowdown, but not much. Basically the way his posts come across he's helpful and reasoned out.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,049
I absolutely see nothing wrong with aiming toward low activity posters who also give us information about others - defending them, targeting them, whatever. It's why I don't advocate flipping AbBro or Kawl/nin/LP but I don't think you'd be a bad flip, Ketkat. Nothing personal here - it's a pragmatic take and I think a better shot in the dark than lynching someone like Febe or Fandorin. And with a stagnant game and no votes, that kind of thing becomes more viable. (That said, while you'd be in my lynch pool, I don't think you'd be my top lynch choice today if I were making it.)

It's probably worth noting though that I'm almost always in favor of clearing out lower posters in early game because they are harder to read and more difficult to deal with late game when we don't want to "waste" a lynch so I am meta-biased there for sure.

okay now for real I'm going to go finish these emails and not burn my posts
 
Oct 25, 2017
733
Tomato
Maybe it's less about the read and more about how people react to it.
Of course. Kyaaa too is influenced by others, he would not otherwise complain about mean Geno saying obvious things. But Kyaaa must mention that Yarr, Kyaaa feels, is going against the consensus here. Combined with the fact that she alone is entertaining this alternative and as seriously as she is, it, to Kyaaa, feels opportunistic. There is a hint that you know what others do not. Just a possibility, sure. I, for one, am not advocating for your lynch. I am merely concerned.

You know that you can't change your vote after you made them, right?

Noone would tie their vote this early, even if I said that I would use an override.
:(

Is Kyaaa that confusing? Kyaaa knows and laments that he has less data to work with. What was supposed to be of great Kyaaa of day was less than expected. That was point of message.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,651
That reasoning doesn't work when it applies to innocuous posts like even this one:

It's essentially nothingness, yet you still had to call it out in public referring to me in third-person. Again, key word is "interesting."
I know you didn't just quote a clear joke post as if I legitimately scumread you for it lol I've never once referenced this as part of my read on you. Hell - even in the post you're quoting I don't say it's scummy. Give me a break.

Lone_Prodigy has replaced nin

Please welcome Lone_Prodigy
So..guess that player slot isn't getting anymore useful.

Ketkat is low hanging fruit. She's a fairly inactive target with little to no strong, concrete posts. Easy for people to call her scummy just because of this.

I've never even mentioned Ketkat before today, so I don't know why you're trying to say I'm contradicting myself. I genuinely town read her.

Do you have a response to this?
If I read a defense based on "inactivity = NAI" again I'm going to implode. That. is. not. what. I'm. saying. Plenty of players are low activity - my problem with Ketkat is that when she IS here, she is doing nothing to advance the game. What about that is townie?

I'm not sure what you want me to respond to? Ketkat was the first person to ping my radar as potential scum. That read only deepened as time went on. Or are you asking me to comment on Fanto agreeing with my read?

She's trying to get some people to stop aiming for low activity posters and look towards actual arguments. It might not be directly solving the game or calling out who scum are, but trying to get people to focus on the larger picture is important to solving the game imo.

While there is a possibility that there's scum among low activity posters, the fact of the matter is, it's pretty NAI. It's something that both sides do for various reasons, but there have been plenty of town players in the past who are low activity. It's something to keep in mind, but that shouldn't be such a large crux of the argument towards anyone unless it's combined with something else.
I'm dead.

But seriously, we get it - activity does not equal alignment. A lack of attempting to solve, being overly defensive, and generally seeming anti-town though all ARE signs of scum. Just yelling "ACTIVITY IS NOT ALIGNMENT" doesn't solve shit. All it does is work to reduce reads players have had by trying to treat them as purely based on activity which I don't think anyone here is doing.

Post #11? 12?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,744
Lone_Prodigy has replaced nin

Please welcome Lone_Prodigy
Nailed it lol

I don’t think we are going to solve this slot via reads.

——

Dr. Monkey I don’t see the hits from rac to be honest. Anything he’s brought has been one liner shade or reaction posts.

FluxWaveZ Faddy in third on your lynch list. Is that a new read? And can you talk about it more? (Also want to hear more on that Fanto read but you said you’d get to it.

Pirate Bae I’d counter that Ket is playing the same way she was in conspiracy where she was scum. Not saying you’re wrong and not saying meta isn’t useful (obviously since I lean on it so much) but the inoffensive play dominated by defense and sideline sitting is what made me ignore her in that game and it’s here again.

It was conspiracy right? I lose track of games but that sounds right.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
Zubz - Going through Zubz's posts didn't take long. There's a lot of fluff, a few follow ups and a whole lot of nothing. Zubz does mention that D1 was during a crazier than expected RL day (again, totally understand). That said, where Ketkat or Pirate Bae get town credit for their thoughts or reads, Zubz's aren't strong enough to pull out of null read. Does have an interesting bit with Fantomas around 1,636 where Fantomas is actually responding to Sawneeks about Chuggernaut/Fran. Kind of amplifies the flame fanning Fanto is working on Chuggernaut/Fran, but I don't know if it's enough to being telling on alignment. Mostly a null read, slightly scummy.

Question for you Zubz : Your last post mentions Turmoil and Ketkat as your top "sources of suspicion", but doesn't elaborate. Ketkat has enough shade that following on that doesn't take much, but can you explain your feelings on Turmoil? There's basically nothing in your posts before this one that I can see. I may have missed it?

I was going to get more in here but it's feeding time and this will take awhile.
 

Fantomas

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,884
Ok, first thing that stands out to me about FluxWave right away, is that he was very bold with his opinions right away through the first couple pages of the thread, and did not back down from them when people got on his back for it. It reads towny to me, but since it was also such minor shit in the long run, it could be a way to seem Town from the get go by dropping out somewhat controversial opinions and baiting people into dumb arguments about it. I'd probably lean in the Town direction based just on how he handled that, feels like Town digging their heels in to me. But of course, it was the very start of the game, I don't hold a lot to just that.

There were some interesting interactions between Fireblend and FluxWave on 1.5. I don't know how to read that entirely though, so since people are giving out some side-eyes to FB today I figured I'd like to get thoughts from people on that. It starts here at post #2113 where FB criticizes Flux for posting catch up thoughts that are no longer relevant to current discussions. Monkey also got on Flux about that, just for the record. It led to a kind of passive-aggressive response from Flux here in #2120. It continues on for a while after that, with FB going back and forth with Flux for a while.

Reading through the rest of 1.5, Flux generally just reads as someone who has a lot of opinions that stand out because they don't go along with what other people were saying, and since he finds himself on quite a few scum lists too, I think that makes people side eye his differing opinions. Overall, I'd say this honestly hasn't changed my view on Flux a whole lot, and I'd probably still stay at a Null on him here. I do think Fandorin made a good point that he wasn't doing much scum hunting, but it looks like there is more effort that's going to be coming today from him now after that read list (even if I disagree with a lot of it). Also I think Sorian has solid points, and that's definitely something for me to weigh as well in my thoughts on him. But I think after the reread I still land on Null personally, would want to wait and see I guess, not someone I'd want to see gone today.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

And now for Part 2, the quotes!
I'm not sure I could disagree more with a post. We both oversaw GOT and the Ketkat I've seen thus far this game is not the one we saw in GOT. There has been nearly zero attempt to solve whatsoever. I have no idea what benefit there even is to bringing activity up again when that is not the issue.

Why is it that you have only half been paying attention yet you come out with such a thorough, long-winded defense of Ketkat? Honestly this is maybe the biggest red flag I've seen from you yet.
I certainly don't agree with her post on Ketkat either, but I wouldn't call it a red flag from her. I read this as her being more thorough now that the game is forced to go at a slower pace, and so she's taking the time to go through and get her opinions down on the hot topics, especially the scum reads.

Pirate Bae I would like to see a more formal read list from you at some point as well, just so I can see how you are sorting people out right now.
If Zubz sheeping other people seems to be your biggest concern, how come you consider it a good look when they outright said that they're voting for Stan because Sorian and Monkey are doing the same?
That post just felt more genuine to me than the later ones that read like more sly attempts at sheeping. Like there they just basically said "Yeah, my town reads were voting there, so I figured I'd do it too." With the other posts, it feels more like inserting other's opinions about who is Scum into the conversation as their own I guess. I guess that's probably the difference to me there, but it is all sheeping nonetheless, so yeah, I see your point.
Lone_Prodigy has replaced nin

Please welcome Lone_Prodigy

A lack of attempting to solve, being overly defensive, and generally seeming anti-town though all ARE signs of scum. Just yelling "ACTIVITY IS NOT ALIGNMENT" doesn't solve shit. All it does is work to reduce reads players have had by trying to treat them as purely based on activity which I don't think anyone here is doing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,744
Burning a post to say that I was wondering who would break the vote embargo first and I assume it wouldn’t be scum so I’ll give cabot that point.
 
OP
OP
Grizzly

Grizzly

Bear of Love
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
1,447
11. In order to vote for another player to be lynched, you must present it on its own line and in the following format with no spaces: [ HIGHLIGHT ]VOTE: playername[ /HIGHLIGHT ]. Misspelt votes are only accepted within reason. Any other format will not be accepted.

I assume this was a mistake so I'll let it slide, but don't intentionally go around a loophole to subvert rules. This vote isn't counted by vote tool right now.