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Bandini

Member
Oct 25, 2017
94
The Nissa Planeswalker card that turns lands into creatures makes me chorttle.
Mainly because I have cards to destroy creatures at the ready :V

Killing the lands alone doesn't beat Nissa, you have to have a way to get rid of her as well. I've won games where all I had left after a wrath was Nissa and 2 lands. Eventually she is going to get to 8 loyalty and have a ton of backbreaking top decks with only a few lands left in deck, or she'll just generate enough mana to power out a huge jellyfish. People talk about baby Teferi and Narset as the most broken cards in WAR, but I think she's up there as well.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Sorry to hear. Right now's a particularly tough time to get back into the game if you've been away as War of The Spark introduced a lot of powerful cards. Even the lower rarity Planeswalkers have their niche. My initial advice was to keep trying until you save up gold for a draft and try your hand at that, but if you're not ejoying the game there's no reason to play it.
Eh, I'll try to fight through it a bit and see how it goes. Magic is a good game underneath it all really, it's a brilliantly designed game, it's just sometimes the ugly head of CCGs showing itself and going "How much money have YOU spent!?"
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,236
Eh, I'll try to fight through it a bit and see how it goes. Magic is a good game underneath it all really, it's a brilliantly designed game, it's just sometimes the ugly head of CCGs showing itself and going "How much money have YOU spent!?"


I understand that. For what it's worth I haven't paid a penny so far and nearly got to Diamond rank last month. I hope you find your footing.
 

Serule

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,765
Decided to reinstall this game and give it another go.

Played two games.

Got beat hard by gimmick decks that I couldn't counter with anything.

Remembering now why I uninstalled this game.

If you are just trying to knock out some quests, you don't have to play on the ladder. You'll still run into finely tuned decks but not as often.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
If you are just trying to knock out some quests, you don't have to play on the ladder. You'll still run into finely tuned decks but not as often.
I've avoided Ranked and that stuff, I think I just had a really bad start cause I've played a couple of rounds now and actually done pretty well with a deck of my own that I built. A white/green one that tries to push out lots of tokens and overwhelm the opponent.

1 Angelic Reward (ANA) 1
2 Conclave Tribunal (GRN) 6
3 Camaraderie (GRN) 157
3 Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants (M19) 3
4 Hunted Witness (GRN) 15
1 Verdant Force (DAR) 187
2 Dawn of Hope (GRN) 8
2 Benalish Marshal (DAR) 6
1 Divine Visitation (GRN) 10
1 Trostani Discordant (GRN) 208
1 Leonin Warleader (M19) 23
3 Llanowar Elves (M19) 314
1 Llanowar Elves (DAR) 168
1 Finale of Devastation (WAR) 160
1 Tendershoot Dryad (RIX) 147
4 Settle the Wreckage (XLN) 34
4 Rising Populace (WAR) 29
1 Emmara, Soul of the Accord (GRN) 168
5 Forest (RIX) 196
15 Plains (RIX) 192
2 Light of the Legion (GRN) 19
4 Tranquil Expanse (M19) 259

Edit: Once a red/blue deck hits however, I am usually completely powerless.

Edit 2: Why are Blue and Black players so boring to play against? All they do is remove -everything- you have on the board or just say "no you don't get to play that" all the time".

"Okay, I play this then."
"No you dont."
"How about this?"
"Stop it."
"Oh, well, guess I am not playing the game then. I'm just sitting here doing nothing."
"Exactly."
"Cool."

Is there any counter to that playstyle within the white or green card lists? Do I focus more on cheap creatures and spells that isn't as worth to spend counter/murder spells on? The worry though is that I'll just run quickly out of cards then and have no stronger creatures for later.
 
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Habaneroguy

Member
Nov 4, 2018
154
Is there any counter to that playstyle within the white or green card lists? Do I focus more on cheap creatures and spells that isn't as worth to spend counter/murder spells on? The worry though is that I'll just run quickly out of cards then and have no stronger creatures for later.
Usually its a war of attrition, right? You make them waste their counters on lower threats. Otherwise you can go the route of hexproof with stuff like Teyo the shieldmage, paradise druid, shalai voice of plenty, etc. The wanderer cuts out non-combat damage. Theres also cards like smothering tithe to make stuff more difficult for your opponent by cutting into their mana or giving you treasure. Use green to ramp into early plays (stomp/tokens) or setup defenses/hexproof and make thing more difficult? Use instants to give creatures indestructible? I know tons of cards are rotating soon, but cards that increase the costs of things for the opponent, shut down etb effects, make creatures enter tapped, shut off activated abilities, shut off artifacts, shut off planeswalkers etc are worthwhile too. If they're making it difficult you have tools to as well. Someone told me that old school magic was basically about how much pain you could put your opponent through. Maybe thats a good mentality in the meta? White is good at changing the rules and laying down the law. Green is good for stompy and ramp. So I guess in general say "no" with white control, then stomp/token flood them with green.
 

Yeef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,439
New York
If you're playing a midrange deck the normal strategy applies. Make sure you're playing resilient threats and don't overextend. Counter spells and wraths are actually seeing a lot less play than they were last season. The former because of lil Tef and the latter because they don't deal with planeswalkers.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Gonna look into that then, cheers!

2 Teyo, the Shieldmage (WAR) 32
9 Forest (RIX) 196
2 Shalai, Voice of Plenty (DAR) 35
4 Blinding Fog (XLN) 177
10 Plains (RIX) 192
1 Carnage Tyrant (XLN) 179
1 Arboretum Elemental (GRN) 122
4 Resolute Watchdog (RNA) 19
2 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn (RIX) 30
4 Assure // Assemble (GRN) 221
1 Nissa, Who Shakes the World (WAR) 169
2 Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants (M19) 3
1 Ajani's Last Stand (M19) 4
4 Settle the Wreckage (XLN) 34
2 Dawn of Hope (GRN) 8
2 Divine Visitation (GRN) 10
4 Llanowar Elves (DAR) 168
4 Tranquil Expanse (M19) 259
1 Sunpetal Grove (XLN) 257
1 Paradise Druid (WAR) 171
2 Camaraderie (GRN) 157
2 Druid of the Cowl (M19) 177
2 Plummet (RIX) 143
Feel like I might be overcompensating...

VYlHPhb.png


Is there a way to shut her the fuck up? She is really aggravating and annoying. Especially when she says that shit right after a really massive loss. :P
 
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Draggyrider

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,334
I've avoided Ranked and that stuff, I think I just had a really bad start cause I've played a couple of rounds now and actually done pretty well with a deck of my own that I built. A white/green one that tries to push out lots of tokens and overwhelm the opponent.



Edit: Once a red/blue deck hits however, I am usually completely powerless.

Edit 2: Why are Blue and Black players so boring to play against? All they do is remove -everything- you have on the board or just say "no you don't get to play that" all the time".

"Okay, I play this then."
"No you dont."
"How about this?"
"Stop it."
"Oh, well, guess I am not playing the game then. I'm just sitting here doing nothing."
"Exactly."
"Cool."

Is there any counter to that playstyle within the white or green card lists? Do I focus more on cheap creatures and spells that isn't as worth to spend counter/murder spells on? The worry though is that I'll just run quickly out of cards then and have no stronger creatures for later.

For White and Green, you have several options. Against Red & Black creature destruction If you are focused going wide with tokens, thats usually good enough since single target spells are generally bad against tokens. Against sweepers (stuff like Ritual of Soot), one option is to include cards like Unbreakable Formation & Sheltering Light to protect your army. Also try not to over-commit to the board. If you have 2+ creatures already and doing acceptable damage to them every turn, save your creatures till they wipe the board, then reload and force them to have another one.

Vs counters, if you think they have one, but you already have enough creatures, again, you can just wait them out. If they don't cast anything, you'll win. If they cast something, then they have no mana to counter (at least initially). Uncounterable creatures are also an option, I think you get a Carnage Tyrant for free with the beginner decks, which is also immune to many kill spells

EDIT: Saw the decklist. I think you need to decide if you are aggressive or more controlly, and pick a theme. You can go for tokens with Dawn of Hope, Divine Visitation, Shalai and Ajani and cut the big creatures like Zetalpa, Or you can go ramp with Llanowar elves and Druids and giant creatures. Whichever one you pick, add in a few things to mess with your opponent's game plan or protect your own. Prison Realm / Seal Away / Titanic Brawl / Conclave Tribunal etc are all pretty good, and you'll want around 6 such effects
 
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Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,236
For White and Green, you have several options. Against Red & Black creature destruction If you are focused going wide with tokens, thats usually good enough since single target spells are generally bad against tokens. Against sweepers (stuff like Ritual of Soot), one option is to include cards like Unbreakable Formation & Sheltering Light to protect your army. Also try not to over-commit to the board. If you have 2+ creatures already and doing acceptable damage to them every turn, save your creatures till they wipe the board, then reload and force them to have another one.

Vs counters, if you think they have one, but you already have enough creatures, again, you can just wait them out. If they don't cast anything, you'll win. If they cast something, then they have no mana to counter (at least initially). Uncounterable creatures are also an option, I think you get a Carnage Tyrant for free with the beginner decks, which is also immune to many kill spells

EDIT: Saw the decklist. I think you need to decide if you are aggressive or more controlly, and pick a theme. You can go for tokens with Dawn of Hope, Divine Visitation, Shalai and Ajani and cut the big creatures like Zetalpa, Or you can go ramp with Llanowar elves and Druids and giant creatures. Whichever one you pick, add in a few things to mess with your opponent's game plan or protect your own. Prison Realm / Seal Away / Titanic Brawl / Conclave Tribunal etc are all pretty good, and you'll want around 6 such effects


Just to add to this. Cards like Seal Away look appealing for their cost, but for removal I'd prioritize cards that exile or otherwise remove target "permanent" instead of target "creature" just because there are so many Planeswalkers around. Also a few problem enchantments.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Hm, I see, so you rather wanna go for a broad card effects rather than narrow ones in general? Cards that can target as many things as possible?

Gonna have to save up some Wildcards then for those other cards suggested!

I would be proper tilted playing against 4 Settle the Wreckage right now

I did have one round where I got all 4 of them in my hand during the beginning of the game.

Don't think my opponent found that as nice.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
BTW, are you using the deck that you just posted? Because 67 cards might be a tad too much. You should try to have 60 cards at best to optimize the chance to draw the cards you need.
Nah, this is a new one, I've scrapped and rebuilt 2-3 times since by now trying to figure out the formula. :P
3 Paradise Druid (WAR) 171
9 Forest (RIX) 196
4 Llanowar Elves (M19) 314
1 Verdant Force (DAR) 187
1 Tendershoot Dryad (RIX) 147
3 Spore Swarm (DAR) 180
1 Thorn Lieutenant (M19) 203
2 Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants (M19) 3
11 Plains (RIX) 192
2 Divine Visitation (GRN) 10
3 Conclave Tribunal (GRN) 6
3 Settle the Wreckage (XLN) 34
1 Trostani Discordant (GRN) 208
2 Camaraderie (GRN) 157
3 Selesnya Guildgate (GRN) 255
2 Carnage Tyrant (XLN) 179
1 Siegehorn Ceratops (RIX) 171
1 Sunpetal Grove (XLN) 257
2 Shalai, Voice of Plenty (DAR) 35
2 Teyo, the Shieldmage (WAR) 32
3 Hunted Witness (GRN) 15
1 Nissa, Who Shakes the World (WAR) 169
2 Assure // Assemble (GRN) 221
2 Sheltering Light (XLN) 35
Dunno how the SIegehorn got in there.

TkNdkkp.jpg


He ONLY had fucking counter spells!

ONLY COUNTER SPELLS CONSTANTLY!

Do I just NOT play anymore at that point? How the fuck do you deal with this bullshit? The ONE spell I was allowed to play giving me those saproling he just copied. I feel so rattled and confused what the point is...
 
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Phoenix944

Member
Oct 28, 2017
925
He ONLY had fucking counter spells!

ONLY COUNTER SPELLS CONSTANTLY!

Do I just NOT play anymore at that point? How the fuck do you deal with this bullshit? The ONE spell I was allowed to play giving me those saproling he just copied. I feel so rattled and confused what the point is...

Yea I'm having difficulty dealing with control deck. Actually I find the blue/red control to be easier to deal with than say black/blue. I don't know how you could have win this because I'm not familiar with white/green but don't you have removal? You need to get rid of that gobelin at the very least. And keep your big spell when he doesn't have mana to throw a counter.
I know, easier said than done :p
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Yea I'm having difficulty dealing with control deck. Actually I find the blue/red control to be easier to deal with than say black/blue. I don't know how you could have win this because I'm not familiar with white/green but don't you have removal? You need to get rid of that gobelin at the very least. And keep your big spell when he doesn't have mana to throw a counter.
I know, easier said than done :p
I did have removal.

Until he swatted my hand, ripped the card apart and said "No." to my removal. :P
 

Deleted member 29293

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,084
They do 4 standard legal sets each year, so everytime they do a non-standard legal set like Modern Horizons you will end up with these release schedules.

Edit: It is true though that between WotS and Core 20 it was only 2 1/3 months so it's slightly closer than the usual 3 months.
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
12,290
Is Core 20 going to introduce another Lightning Strike? What's the largest number of Lightning Strike-esque cards a given standard environment has ever had?
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Should they add a filter to matchmaking to let players exclude control decks, or rather specific types of decks?
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
12,290
Should they add a filter to matchmaking to let players exclude control decks, or rather specific types of decks?

I feel like that's just going to lead to "exclude decks which are difficult matchups", which is hardly fair. You'll get no one matching up because everyone is always avoiding anything they can't easily counter. How would the game recognise what is and isn't a control deck, in any case?
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
I feel like that's just going to lead to "exclude decks which are difficult matchups", which is hardly fair. You'll get no one matching up because everyone is always avoiding anything they can't easily counter. How would the game recognise what is and isn't a control deck, in any case?
Itd base it on # of type of cards that have a particular effect. If that vlue of a specific amount itd treat it as a control deck.
Just an example :x
 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,966
I feel like that's just going to lead to "exclude decks which are difficult matchups", which is hardly fair. You'll get no one matching up because everyone is always avoiding anything they can't easily counter. How would the game recognise what is and isn't a control deck, in any case?
Clearly the answer is check "does this deck at least have a single damn creature?" and if no off to the pit for them to annoy one another instead of me.

(I don't believe it's actually a good idea to try to deal with things in that way, even if I'd personally prefer design to shift so that creatureless heavy control crap is less pushed.)
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Again with a red,black, blue fucking deck that forces me to discard everything, kills everything I have, then play Nicol fuckingBolas who just removes EVERYTHING ELSE and then goes "lol you lost the game.".....

I fucking HATE black and blue players.

Such boring cunts...

Edit: I tap out, I gave it what I could but this game is too much, I am an idiotic fucker who can't play it. I don't have the brain capacity to go through thousands of cards for optimal strategies in deckbuilding, I don't have thousands of dollars to afford said cards, I can never beat the bloody meta of this shit. And I can feel my depression flaring up like a sun with every loosing streak I build up.

I'm done. I'm too stupid for this.
 
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Sep 14, 2018
4,615
Again with a red,black, blue fucking deck that forces me to discard everything, kills everything I have, then play Nicol fuckingBolas who just removes EVERYTHING ELSE and then goes "lol you lost the game.".....

I fucking HATE black and blue players.

Such boring cunts...

Edit: I tap out, I gave it what I could but this game is too much, I am an idiotic fucker who can't play it. I don't have the brain capacity to go through thousands of cards for optimal strategies in deckbuilding, I don't have thousands of dollars to afford said cards, I can never beat the bloody meta of this shit.

I'm done. I'm too stupid for this.

Well, from next set on you can try Leyline of Sanctity!

Or just take a break, whenever I get tired of the meta (so all the time) I just stop playing, I lasted all of 2 weeks in WAR standard before I got annoyed at PW whack a mole.

At this point I'm just waiting to see if the new format is worth sticking around for cause Standard certainly never is.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Well, from next set on you can try Leyline of Sanctity!

Or just take a break, whenever I get tired of the meta (so all the time) I just stop playing, I lasted all of 2 weeks in WAR standard before I got annoyed at PW whack a mole.

At this point I'm just waiting to see if the new format is worth sticking around for cause Standard certainly never is.
A really, really long break is probably for the best then. Or wait until someone makes a digital version of Android: Netrunner.
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,615
Keasar wait a sec, those counterspells aren't even playable! What format was that? It may be your deckbuilding, if you show me your list I can help, I'll only recommend commons and uncommons, just tell me what you're going for.

Ok I just saw it and it's kind of a mess, have you tried other color combinations? I don't think this is going anywhere without some amount of Loxodons, March of the Multitudes, Emmara, Benaelish Marshall, History of Benalia, Unbreakable Formation, Legion's Landing, etc.

I tried GW stuff a little early this year and I remember getting a ton of value out of Shaper's Sanctuary, maybe throw that in.

And in general your gameplan needs more focus, you're either ramping into something with all those mana producing creatures, or you're filling up the board with tokens, you want everything to work toward the same goal, not pull you in different directions.
 
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Izzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
683
Man, sorry about the frustrating matches. Lord knows I've had my share of tilted nights queueing into loss after loss. If I could do change one thing about the game I'd force it to make me wait at least a minute before queuing up again after a loss in Bo1.

I know it doesn't feel like it, but I guarantee those Esper/Grixis players have drawn bricks. They can't always have it, and sometimes you get to just smash their faces in for three turns and watch them sigh and hit that concede button. And those days are pretty nice :)
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,542
The game can definitely be frustrating. Oh look no lands, oh look nothing but lands, mono red with a perfect hand, multiple erasures in opening hand, perfect top deck, and etc.

You just have to roll with the punches. It eventually balances out.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Keasar wait a sec, those counterspells aren't even playable! What format was that? It may be your deckbuilding, if you show me your list I can help, I'll only recommend commons and uncommons, just tell me what you're going for.

Ok I just saw it and it's kind of a mess, have you tried other color combinations? I don't think this is going anywhere without some amount of Loxodons, March of the Multitudes, Emmara, Benaelish Marshall, History of Benalia, Unbreakable Formation, Legion's Landing, etc.

I tried GW stuff a little early this year and I remember getting a ton of value out of Shaper's Sanctuary, maybe throw that in.

And in general your gameplan needs more focus, you're either ramping into something with all those mana producing creatures, or you're filling up the board with tokens, you want everything to work toward the same goal, not pull you in different directions.
I....dunno? I've just clicked "New Deck" and it shows me what I got, didn't know there was also formats. Standard I guess, seems to be the default one?

I've usually aimed at White or White/Green because of just sheer principle of wanting a deck that plays creatures that works with each other. Makes each other stronger. Puts out large armies that become more powerful in synergy. I tried getting some token cards in and then some larger more stronger cards/card draws cause my hand would always run out, either because I tried to desperately build a defense or because they make me loose what I have on hand. This while avoiding with all my power to play Black or Blue (Red being acceptable, but not really favored) because I just hate those kinds of players and don't wanna fall into their category.

Might as well go out now and say I only got 13 Common, 1 Uncommon, 1 Rare and 1 Mythic Rare Wildcards, I spent a bunch earlier trying desperately to get cards I thought would work...
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,615
Keasar I think it matches based on deck strenght in that default mode, judging by that hideous deck you were up against, which means you can win against similarly hm shakily built decks.

Cards that can help: Snubhorn Sentry, Saproling Migration, Adanto Vanguard, Dauntless Bodyguard, Skymarcher Aspirant, Martyr of Dusk, Law Rune Enforcer, Flower // Flourish.

Cards that need to go: Camaraderie, Spore Swarm, Ceratops.

You could consider Green/Red if you want creatures, or just mono red if you're more budget conscious. There's also those 50 pack pre order bundles that give you a bunch of wildcards, obviously no one actually cares about the Core Set so you can just use them on whatever you want!
I'm not sure how I'd try to catch up cause most decks these days have cards from every expansion so buying boosters is pretty low value. Probably drafting I guess.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Keasar I think it matches based on deck strenght in that default mode, judging by that hideous deck you were up against, which means you can win against similarly hm shakily built decks.

Cards that can help: Snubhorn Sentry, Saproling Migration, Adanto Vanguard, Dauntless Bodyguard, Skymarcher Aspirant, Martyr of Dusk, Law Rune Enforcer, Flower // Flourish.

Cards that need to go: Camaraderie, Spore Swarm, Ceratops.

You could consider Green/Red if you want creatures, or just mono red if you're more budget conscious. There's also those 50 pack pre order bundles that give you a bunch of wildcards, obviously no one actually cares about the Core Set so you can just use them on whatever you want!
I'm not sure how I'd try to catch up cause most decks these days have cards from every expansion so buying boosters is pretty low value. Probably drafting I guess.
I have tried drafting in multiple games and they all rely on having knowledge about everything that is the game in question, all the cards, all the values, all the effects, calculate constantly which cards are worth taking and which are not cause it's not like you can build towards a theme in drafting, everything is just random. I have tried drafting and it's rare I ever go above 1 victory, so it's a extreme loosing proposition cause in the end I'll just have more worthless cards I thought was good and i have spent money that could have gone towards boosters instead that could just give me some cards that, by chance, are the actual good ones instead of based on my shitty decisions.

Also, it's funny, out of all those cards suggested I only got Saproling Migration and 2 Law Rune Enforcers. People never seem to suggest any of the cards included in those theme decks the game gives you. And when you say "budget" red, I've tried looking up "budget" decks and when putting them into the game, they suddenly asked for 40 common wildcards or another wild bunch that I just don't have anymore.
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,615
Keasar You may want to spend some money, as unsavory as that sounds cause if you are having trouble even scrounging up commons, youre gonna have a hard time. I understand being frustrated vs that archetype, there are many ways to improve your decks against it, but you have to be able to access those cards.

WotC is usually pushing better threats vs control and giving them worse answers, blue based control is not particularly good or bad right now, you will know what to do with experience against it, no need to throw in the towel because of it :)

I get not wanting to spend money on a game youre not enjoying at the moment but the good cards are not just gonna fall into your lap. And there is always useful stuff coming out for most decks:

veilofsummer1.jpg
leylineofsanctity.jpg
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
Keasar You may want to spend some money, as unsavory as that sounds cause if you are having trouble even scrounging up commons, youre gonna have a hard time. I understand being frustrated vs that archetype, there are many ways to improve your decks against it, but you have to be able to access those cards.

WotC is usually pushing better threats vs control and giving them worse answers, blue based control is not particularly good or bad right now, you will know what to do with experience against it, no need to throw in the towel because of it :)

I get not wanting to spend money on a game youre not enjoying at the moment but the good cards are not just gonna fall into your lap. And there is always useful stuff coming out for most decks:

veilofsummer1.jpg
leylineofsanctity.jpg
Would Leyline of Sanctity work in a non-white deck with a bit of luck?
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,236
Keasar You may want to spend some money, as unsavory as that sounds cause if you are having trouble even scrounging up commons, youre gonna have a hard time. I understand being frustrated vs that archetype, there are many ways to improve your decks against it, but you have to be able to access those cards.

WotC is usually pushing better threats vs control and giving them worse answers, blue based control is not particularly good or bad right now, you will know what to do with experience against it, no need to throw in the towel because of it :)

I get not wanting to spend money on a game youre not enjoying at the moment but the good cards are not just gonna fall into your lap. And there is always useful stuff coming out for most decks:

veilofsummer1.jpg
leylineofsanctity.jpg


Can Veil of Summer itself be countered? I wouldn't think its effect er, goes into effect until it resolves. It's a nice cantrip for Bo3 I suppose given it's situational.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
I have tried drafting in multiple games and they all rely on having knowledge about everything that is the game in question, all the cards, all the values, all the effects, calculate constantly which cards are worth taking and which are not cause it's not like you can build towards a theme in drafting, everything is just random. I have tried drafting and it's rare I ever go above 1 victory, so it's a extreme loosing proposition cause in the end I'll just have more worthless cards I thought was good and i have spent money that could have gone towards boosters instead that could just give me some cards that, by chance, are the actual good ones instead of based on my shitty decisions.

Also, it's funny, out of all those cards suggested I only got Saproling Migration and 2 Law Rune Enforcers. People never seem to suggest any of the cards included in those theme decks the game gives you. And when you say "budget" red, I've tried looking up "budget" decks and when putting them into the game, they suddenly asked for 40 common wildcards or another wild bunch that I just don't have anymore.

Drafting does require knowledge of the set, it's true, but once you have it there is a lot of skill to drafting and you can do quite well without needing to worry about whether someone simply spent more and played more to get a better deck. But knowledge of everything is certainly not required. In fact, at the beginning of a set, most people won't have any knowledge of it at all.

You say you can't build towards a theme in drafting but that's incorrect -- you should always build towards a theme in drafting. Each set has certain draft archetypes. They're officially announced and you can look them up. For instance, in War of the Spark I often try to go UR spells. Someone else might try Green 4+ power or RB sacrifice. There are GWU proliferate decks. In the upcoming Core 2020 set, the themes will be based on wedges with a focus on allied colors. I realize that means nothing to you right now, but it's a pretty simple concept you could learn and use to your advantage.

I'd recommend you watch videos on how to draft. Then watch more complicated videos on how to draft. You need to learn how to read the cards you're being given and when to pick what. Just because something is a good card doesn't mean you should pick it. Those videos will help, the rest will come with experience. Core 2020 will be a pretty simple drafting environment so it'll be an excellent time for you to jump in and learn the ropes. You'll undoubtedly still lose more than you win, but with a bit of experience you'll slowly start to do better.

Regarding control, I know you're short on wildcards now but I really recommend you try to play control yourself sometime. Control is not nearly as good as you think it is. Playing control is a great way to see that. You'll lose a lot and, if you keep your mind open, you'll learn a lot about how to beat control.

For your current deck, you should get 4x Adanto Vanguard as soon as possible. I believe one of the starting decks had a History of Benalia -- you should add that in immediately. GW tokens isn't a super strong deck, but it should be more than okay for casual play like you're doing. I would also add in Knight of Autumn if you have some already. I would save your rare and mythic wildcards.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Drafting does require knowledge of the set, it's true, but once you have it there is a lot of skill to drafting and you can do quite well without needing to worry about whether someone simply spent more and played more to get a better deck. But knowledge of everything is certainly not required. In fact, at the beginning of a set, most people won't have any knowledge of it at all.

You say you can't build towards a theme in drafting but that's incorrect -- you should always build towards a theme in drafting. Each set has certain draft archetypes. They're officially announced and you can look them up. For instance, in War of the Spark I often try to go UR spells. Someone else might try Green 4+ power or RB sacrifice. There are GWU proliferate decks. In the upcoming Core 2020 set, the themes will be based on wedges with a focus on allied colors. I realize that means nothing to you right now, but it's a pretty simple concept you could learn and use to your advantage.

I'd recommend you watch videos on how to draft. Then watch more complicated videos on how to draft. You need to learn how to read the cards you're being given and when to pick what. Just because something is a good card doesn't mean you should pick it. Those videos will help, the rest will come with experience. Core 2020 will be a pretty simple drafting environment so it'll be an excellent time for you to jump in and learn the ropes. You'll undoubtedly still lose more than you win, but with a bit of experience you'll slowly start to do better.

Regarding control, I know you're short on wildcards now but I really recommend you try to play control yourself sometime. Control is not nearly as good as you think it is. Playing control is a great way to see that. You'll lose a lot and, if you keep your mind open, you'll learn a lot about how to beat control.

For your current deck, you should get 4x Adanto Vanguard as soon as possible. I believe one of the starting decks had a History of Benalia -- you should add that in immediately. GW tokens isn't a super strong deck, but it should be more than okay for casual play like you're doing. I would also add in Knight of Autumn if you have some already. I would save your rare and mythic wildcards.
Huh, if Green/White isn't that good for token decks, what is the gameplay strengths of a white/green combo?

I'll save up some gold then to try on drafting later once that Core Set 20 releases.
 

ZeroCoin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
431
I'll save up some gold then to try on drafting later once that Core Set 20 releases.

Just keep in mind that drafting is a specific skill that takes practice. The allure of not running into a tier 1 deck is tempting, but you have to deliver on your picks. I've given up drafting for a bit because I have a bad habit of drafting cards that are good in constructed but aren't going to help me win matches in the event.

Also, remember that the unranked play mode will match you up against opponents that have a similar deck strength and skill level. You should be fine playing one of the starter decks in order to complete challenges and earn some wins for coins and extra packs. I know a lot of people here haven't spent any money and can put together competitive high tier decks because they've put a lot of time in. Eventually you will reach a point where you have more common and uncommon wildcards than you really know what to do with.

FInally, don't get to frustrated trying to craft a meta-deck. Start with something simple and learn how it plays, and don't stress about it not getting wins every time you go out. Plenty of people enjoy playing their weird combo or gimmick decks that only win 1 out of 10 matches, but boy does it feel great when you get that 1 win. Also, don't get too frustrated when you run into a deck that doesn't seem fair. It may seem like control or rdw or whatever always has a perfect run against you, but that's just how the game goes sometimes.
 

Izzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
683
Eh there's also a factor of cost. Every rare/mythic in arena has the same cost, one wildcard. Its not unnatural for a large part of the arena player base to gravitate to the meta if the difference in crafting cost between that and jank is so little.

Plus, there's a non zero amount of people playing highly tuned meta decks in arena because they aren't able to buy in on paper.
 

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,450
Offering support for Keasar as well, I wouldn't let the game get to you. Esper, Grixis, and monored are giving everyone trouble right now, even top streamers (Noxious, Merchant, etc).

Like others have said, I would suggest taking a break until the new set drops (there's a good amount of cards coming that are giant middle fingers to those aforementioned meta decks), or just walk away until the meta has settled into something way different than it looks now. We're here for you of course for advice.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
Eh there's also a factor of cost. Every rare/mythic in arena has the same cost, one wildcard. Its not unnatural for a large part of the arena player base to gravitate to the meta if the difference in crafting cost between that and jank is so little.

Plus, there's a non zero amount of people playing highly tuned meta decks in arena because they aren't able to buy in on paper.

This is it for me. I'd love to brew some random jank and see how well I can do with it. I've spent over $200 on the game and get my quests down probably at least 25 days a month. I don't have even close to enough wildcards to build that jank. My standard collection will be fairly complete this coming rotation, but I hardly own any Ixalan to Core 19. I'd love to brew up a a scapeshift deck based around the new landfall guy or the landfall zombie land that are coming out in Core 2020, but I don't own Scapeshift and I can't afford to waste rare wildcards on trashy rares. That's just the way it is, I guess.

I can't wait til Brawl or whatever comes out. Hopefully it's Standard Plus. I'll be able to brew some fun stuff with that.
 

Spiritreaver

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,234
I dunno if it's for everyone, as a lot of people like to rush to Mythic or grind extensively to hit top ranks. However I just play to get my 4 wins every day and climb slowly over the month. It helps keep myself from getting burned out or tilting often. I'll play more if I feel like it, but if it's a bad day I just quit and do something else.

Also take advantage of limited and events if you're into that. Anything to spice up the game. Plus M20 is coming in a couple of weeks, perfect time to just play casually until that hits.
 

etiira

Member
Oct 25, 2017
327
I dunno if it's for everyone, as a lot of people like to rush to Mythic or grind extensively to hit top ranks. However I just play to get my 4 wins every day and climb slowly over the month. It helps keep myself from getting burned out or tilting often. I'll play more if I feel like it, but if it's a bad day I just quit and do something else.

Also take advantage of limited and events if you're into that. Anything to spice up the game. Plus M20 is coming in a couple of weeks, perfect time to just play casually until that hits.

That's me, but I mostly draft. I'll hop on constructed if I have quests to finish that my current draft deck can't handle, and I've been doing the recent events, but I typically stick to 1-5 won games/day.