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Magic the Gathering: Arena |OT| Now in Open Beta

Izzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
250
The only thing I would want in this current arena economy is some kind of wildcard exchange. Combining multiple commons into uncommons, then into rares, etc. And being able to use a higher rarity wildcard to craft a lower rarity card (looking at you shocklands). Even if the exchange rate is terrible, it would give a lot of perceived relief to folks trying to get by without a real cash investment.

As an aside, this is the first month I've played mostly for fun and using decks even slightly behind tier one has been brutal in ranked. I suppose that's partly due to the card pool being so high right before rotation. There's just no room for anything less than perfect at the moment.
 

Brian Damage

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,151
UK
God I love Goblin Ringleader after Settle the Wreckage. Not only do I get to filter out a ton of lands from my deck and almost guarantee a 4-goblin draw, I can also afford to play them all next turn.
 

Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
411
Went 6-1 with a Cavalcade deck in this event. That went fast.

Only lost to another Cavalcade deck, which went first.

I'm part of the problem. People are gonna hate this. :D
 

Draggyrider

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,002
Hearthstone has dusting and requires 2/1 copies.

MTG Arena saddles you with garbage and requires 4-of, including the punishing Mana base requirements.

Dusting has been a demand since the days of early closed beta in December 2017. They've never seem interested, much to the closed beta community's angst.
The only thing I would want in this current arena economy is some kind of wildcard exchange. Combining multiple commons into uncommons, then into rares, etc. And being able to use a higher rarity wildcard to craft a lower rarity card (looking at you shocklands). Even if the exchange rate is terrible, it would give a lot of perceived relief to folks trying to get by without a real cash investment.

As an aside, this is the first month I've played mostly for fun and using decks even slightly behind tier one has been brutal in ranked. I suppose that's partly due to the card pool being so high right before rotation. There's just no room for anything less than perfect at the moment.
On the economy, I think it depends on the type of player you are. If you are the kind who doesn't mind net-decking and am solely concerned with finding one or two good decks to rank up the ladder to Legendary/Mythic, HS style economy is great since you can just demolish everything unneeded and aim solely for that. You'll have a bare collection besides that one deck but you do get that one deck.

If you want variety, Arena is probably better, especially if you can rare-draft while still doing decently in Limited. Its probably harder to keep up with the most optimized decklists especially sideboard-wise, but if you are willing to put up with downgrades its not so bad.

That said constructed in both games suck. Just about every game is against the same 5-6 optimized decks and a single stumble means you probably lost the game by turn 3. I want to play my weird Zombie Deck against other interesting stuff, not Scapeshift / RDW / Vampires / Simic Flash / Simic Ramp / Esper for the zillionth time.
 

Lyng

Writer at Joypad.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,535
People just playing standard vampires and winning in the event because that deck is beyond broken.
 

Brian Damage

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,151
UK
Vampires dies in a month's time, I don't blame people for getting their time in with it while they can.

I'm excited for rotation, depending on Eldraine most big meta decks are going to need a massive overhaul if they want to survive (Simic Flash excepted, of course). The first couple of weeks after rotation ought to be the best time to get janky with it. Meta shifts are my favourite time to play.
 

Lyng

Writer at Joypad.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,535
It's a good aggro deck, it's not broken. I doubt you're going to enjoy any competitive format if you think it's that bad.
Knight of the Ebon Legion is not just good its broken. The cost to value ratio is of the charts.
If it was a 1/1 then it would maybe be balanced. But as its stands now its insane. Especially with the current tools to keep it alive and get it back. And I enjoy competitive BO3 very much. Having issues with a decks balance doesnt mean you cannot enjoy competitive.
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,347
Vampires isn't broken, and I don't think it's the best deck in the format, but it's no worse than second. The problem is it's a Tier 2 or Tier 3 aggro tribal deck... that has one grossly overpowered card (Sorin) and one overpowered card (Knight one drop).

Games against Vampires with Sorin and games against Vampires without Sorin are so different it's stupid.

It's the same with Nissa decks. Those decks aren't "Bant Ramp" or whatever; they're Nissa decks. Games with Nissa versus games without Nissa. I liked and played UG/UGW ramp strategies for a few months, but every time I played Nissa on curve, I thought it was dumb, and every time I couldn't find Nissa, I thought the deck was also dumb.

Every deck has its single best card, but those two decks are decks that aren't very good without their best card. And that's an annoying design problem.

With a brief stop-in during Zenikar through Scars blocks (great timing huh), I missed competitive Magic from Onslaught until Arena's launch. I read enough to kow about good decks between then, at times, but I don't know know nearly enough to say if this is a recurring problem or just an immediate one. I'd guess it's not a common problem and it's just an issue right now with some very dumb, single overpowered cards in the format (little Teferi), some of which produce entire deck archetypes (Nissa, Sorin).

Also, to my utter lack of surprise, the three cards I just bitched about are planeswalkers. I hate planeswalkers. /oldmanrant.
 

Habaneroguy

Member
Nov 4, 2018
80
Pretty excited for brawl to get on arena. I think F2P players will flock to that format as well seeing as how you only need 1 copy of each card. Im preparing to see janky persistent partitioner decks, however. Can also use planeswalkers for their commander I think. I know y'all are running into vamp decks but every other deck i hit up against are elementals.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,563
Watching my opponent

Take thirty seconds

with one island untapped

to attack with their flier

into my tapped out board
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,347
Mythic decay rate has been much kinder to me so far. I've only lost 90 spots since Sunday morning, when I called it quits at #160.
 

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,767

In order to spice up Historic, they'll add 15-20 older cards to the format in November, with more coming later. They don't intend to add entire old sets.
Starting November, cards from Historic sets will require two wildcards of the appropriate rarity instead of one.
You can only buy booster packs of Historic sets in 45-pack bundles

Here's the roadmap

September 26, 2019

  • Ixalan, Rivals of Ixalan, Dominaria, and Core Set 2019 rotate out of Standard.
  • Players will still be able to play with rotated cards in the Best-of-One Play Queue and Direct Challenge.
  • Players can continue to craft any card using Wildcards, at a rate of one Wildcard per card (1:1).
  • Players will still be able to purchase the 45-pack bundle with the Buy-A-Box promo for older sets; all other purchase options will be removed.
November 2019

  • Fully introduce Historic format.
  • Around 15–20 cards from Magic's history will be initially added to MTG Arena for use in Historic play.
  • Special Historic event focused on the additional new cards.
  • Additional Historic events, at least once per month.
  • Crafting Historic cards will increase to a rate of two Wildcards per Historic card (2:1).
December 2019

  • Historic Ranked play begins, and Historic Traditional Ranked queues will be available for play. Wins in Historic Ranked play will contribute to that seasons Constructed Rank (there is currently no separate Rank for Historic and Standard Constructed play).
 

Xequalsy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
263
Not a fan of the half measure of not letting us play with older sets in their entirety but I do like that they are implementing ranked modes at least. Furthermore since Ranked is coming in Dec, we'll have 2 new sets so that it's not just Standard+
 

Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
411
Yeah, double wildcard cost is garbage.

Even more so if they end up changing it after the outrage that I assume is already underway. Just fuck this nonsense already.
 

ZeroCoin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
216
I feel like the double wildcard cost is going to get walked back after the backlash. Just seeing that killed any interest I had in checking out historic.
 

Brian Damage

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,151
UK
I feel like the double wildcard cost is going to get walked back after the backlash. Just seeing that killed any interest I had in checking out historic.
They walkback enough stuff that I'm half convinced it's deliberate at this point. Decide to do something that goes too far, then scale it back and get praised for "listening to the fanbase". Makes for a better image than just going straight to the endpoint. Call me cynical, by all means.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,579
I'd be fine with the double cost for cards we actually had a chance to purchase in sets or craft 1:1 in the game at some point, but for the ones that are being introduced for Historic?
 

Actinium

Member
Oct 27, 2017
598
California
Isn't historic the only way to use cards from sets that rotate out of standard so far? So essentially when promised we would have a forever format to use our old cards in they instead made it into a reverse progression path where of course the handful of 'new' cards from magic history will be utter killers you HAVE to have to be competitive. So in reality there is no eternal format, you have to spend twice as many wildcards as keeping up with standard for the privilege of playing with the cards you already bought or be relegated to a like <40% win rate forever aka not actually getting to play that mode.

What an utterly atrociously dick move.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
350
Isn't historic the only way to use cards from sets that rotate out of standard so far? So essentially when promised we would have a forever format to use our old cards in they instead made it into a reverse progression path where of course the handful of 'new' cards from magic history will be utter killers you HAVE to have to be competitive. So in reality there is no eternal format, you have to spend twice as many wildcards as keeping up with standard for the privilege of playing with the cards you already bought or be relegated to a like <40% win rate forever aka not actually getting to play that mode.

What an utterly atrociously dick move.
Apparently you get 4x all the new cards by entering one of the historic special events, but not clear what the cost for that event is. Basically sounds like a bundle you can buy to get all the new ones.

They've completely fucked the language behind this, when they say historic cards they mean both rotated cards and the "new" cards being dropped in batches. This is going to be confusing for a while, the "new" cards need a separate term.

They've given examples of cards they might include in the historic drops as Brainstorm, Firebolt, Wurmcoil Engine, and Dark Confidant... I don't think they're equipped to manage their own format if that's their first idea.
 
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robox

Member
Nov 10, 2017
495
So will there be quick play queues for both standard and historic? There should be at least a standard one to practice and try jank out without the competitive pressure of ranked play

Also should I just bite the bullet and craft the rest of the check lands? I held off since they were rotating out
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
350
So will there be quick play queues for both standard and historic? There should be at least a standard one to practice and try jank out without the competitive pressure of ranked play

Also should I just bite the bullet and craft the rest of the check lands? I held off since they were rotating out
The quick play will let you queue with anything, but the deck matching algorithm they have will match you against someone playing the same format in the same way it currently tries to match intro deck players together.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,051
Mastery deadline on September 26


It means we have 4 new weeks to collect the weekly win XP: 15000
28 Daily Quests XP: 14000
Probably one or two events: 1000-2000

I am level 71, so if I devour all of the quest/weekly rewards, I am getting to 100 and no more. Any special event reward gives me the headroom in case I miss a day :(

If you are below 71 (no stacked quests or weekly rewards left), you will have to rely on events to boost you to the 100.
 

jph139

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,274
Massachusetts
Historic sounds like a mess. Give me Brawl.

Mastery deadline on September 26


It means we have 4 new weeks to collect the weekly win XP: 15000
28 Daily Quests XP: 14000
Probably one or two events: 1000-2000

I am level 71, so if I devour all of the quest/weekly rewards, I am getting to 100 and no more. Any special event reward gives me the headroom in case I miss a day :(

If you are below 71 (no stacked quests or weekly rewards left), you will have to rely on events to boost you to the 100.
They also mentioned "2020 Standard Preview" queue that will net you 200 XP for every two wins or whatever, if you want to grind over that hill.

I'm at 70 exactly right now, so in theory that wouldn't be too bad if I'm vigilant about it... but I'm also going on vacation on the 20th so I'm probably losing out on that last week of rewards, which sucks.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,563
I'm really curious how they're going to address the Wildcard issue that isn't just getting stingier with them or doubling the cost of everything. Like its just the nature of Magic that in a given Standard season you're only going to build a small number of decks
 

ZeroCoin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
216
How many people are actually in danger of finishing up the mastery pass well ahead of the end date? I play pretty much every day and I still feel like I'm barely going to max the pass out. I just can't believe that they actually brought that up during the Q&A from yesterday.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,796
How many people are actually in danger of finishing up the mastery pass well ahead of the end date? I play pretty much every day and I still feel like I'm barely going to max the pass out. I just can't believe that they actually brought that up during the Q&A from yesterday.
Their battle pass structure doesn't seem to understand why they're popular.
 

Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
411
How many people are actually in danger of finishing up the mastery pass well ahead of the end date? I play pretty much every day and I still feel like I'm barely going to max the pass out. I just can't believe that they actually brought that up during the Q&A from yesterday.
You aren't able to max it out by default, so it shouldn't come as a surprise.

No idea who cooks up this stuff. I'm obviously out of touch with gaming.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,796
If this continues SFM is not going to be around for more than a few months because it's creating the Splinter Twin problem all over again. (a combo in a can that decreases diversity because you can just slot the same 7-8 cards into any archetype.)


 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,216
...A little late here, I know, but what in the world are they smoking with those Historic details? You're supposed to, y'know, make the older unlimited format only stuff LESS expensive because it has more limited use, not MORE. Double wildcard costs is absolutely insane, as is in turn locking old packs to needing to buy massive bundles. It already had the stink of "we don't actually want you to play this," but now it REALLY feels that way.

Even if you don't want to risk people buying packs they can't use in standard and stuff, you just make a subsection of the store that clearly marks that fact.


Just... really disappointed in all that.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,796
I've never really played a game with one before, what's wrong with this one?
A big part of the appeal is flexibility with how you complete it. That's not there with the Arena pass.
...A little late here, I know, but what in the world are they smoking with those Historic details? You're supposed to, y'know, make the older unlimited format only stuff LESS expensive because it has more limited use, not MORE. Double wildcard costs is absolutely insane, as is in turn locking old packs to needing to buy massive bundles. It already had the stink of "we don't actually want you to play this," but now it REALLY feels that way.

Even if you don't want to risk people buying packs they can't use in standard and stuff, you just make a subsection of the store that clearly marks that fact.


Just... really disappointed in all that.
Jon Loucks came out on twitter and said that when stuff like this comes out, it's 100% deliberate as the result of the team disagreeing internally on the economy, and it's basically a test of which group is correct internally.
 

Habaneroguy

Member
Nov 4, 2018
80
So no more brawl details huh? Hope it hasn't been shelved. It seemed like before it was going to coincide with the eldraine release.
 

fuzzyset

Member
Oct 25, 2017
943
So no more brawl details huh? Hope it hasn't been shelved. It seemed like before it was going to coincide with the eldraine release.
Definitely hasn't been shelved. They just haven't revealed any more cards. There's an event Sept 4 for Throne so maybe some news will be there. IIRC, the mythic 3color cycle from Core 2020 (Kethis, Kaalia, etc) was designed with Brawl in mind.