Magic the Gathering: Arena |OT| Now in Open Beta

Oct 27, 2017
3,567
Somewhere South
I don't think Magic is necessarily designed around sideboarding - there's little in the game that actually requires a sideboard to function - it's just that the competitive culture around the game - from deckbuilding to play strategy - was always based on Bo3.

Bo1 is as much of a different game from Bo3 as Limited is from Constructed. Bo3 decks trade flexibility for consistency and rely on the sideboard for resiliency. That's totally the wrong approach for Bo1 deckbuilding and I don't think we've yet developed the proper culture to really understand what an optimal Bo1 deck looks like.
 

Lyng

Writer at Joypad.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,595
We really need a way to report cunts that pull the plug resulting in a draw. Just had this happen again against some dimir mill player who, of course, couldnt handle being outplayed.
 

bardo

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,767
I don't think Magic is necessarily designed around sideboarding - there's little in the game that actually requires a sideboard to function - it's just that the competitive culture around the game - from deckbuilding to play strategy - was always based on Bo3.

Bo1 is as much of a different game from Bo3 as Limited is from Constructed. Bo3 decks trade flexibility for consistency and rely on the sideboard for resiliency. That's totally the wrong approach for Bo1 deckbuilding and I don't think we've yet developed the proper culture to really understand what an optimal Bo1 deck looks like.
Hmm... I'm going to have to disagree. If you are playing best of three, the sideboard allows for you to tech against their strat. But maybe I;m mistaken?
 
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Izzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
262
Went 4-2 in the event with Rakdos Knights. I even happened to have 3 actual games of magic, not against meta or complete non-games based on draw, so I consider it a success.

There might be a decent “fair” deck there with red black knights, cause the threat of embercleave is no joke. Even the flash knight is nice cause it lets you hold up mana for shenanigans. But it probably needs one or two extra cards to really push it into contention.
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,484
I don't think Magic is necessarily designed around sideboarding - there's little in the game that actually requires a sideboard to function - it's just that the competitive culture around the game - from deckbuilding to play strategy - was always based on Bo3.

Bo1 is as much of a different game from Bo3 as Limited is from Constructed. Bo3 decks trade flexibility for consistency and rely on the sideboard for resiliency. That's totally the wrong approach for Bo1 deckbuilding and I don't think we've yet developed the proper culture to really understand what an optimal Bo1 deck looks like.
The Bo1 system uses a shuffler that elevates all-in aggro strategies. Its a fundamental alteration of the game.
 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,235
Got to 5 wins in the event, then lost twice in a row. Oh well, I'll take the minor free stuff.

Also... I'm not surprised considering the cards that stuck around, but I really wish the power level on everything wasn't still so high coming out of rotation. I was excited to be free of nonsense to some degree for a bit... but then you get stuff like just Fires of Invention, then the deck goes off with Superfriends and Control and you're just kind of screwed at that point most likely. Just kind of wish we were rebuilding from a bit less intense of a start, I guess.

Really, I think I just vastly prefer limited to constructed. Bring on reasonable phantom drafts sooner than later, please!

Edit: Not to say that deck is definitely a particularly bad culprit or anything, as I honestly haven't settled into the meta yet to figure out power levels. Just that getting hit by that made me realize my dream of power levels really coming back down for a bit was very much dead.
 
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Chojin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,755
Went 6-2 with a modified Stax deck. Ravens Revenge worked wonders for the aggro decks surprised I didn't run into Bant Golos/Field once though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,152
I hate this game right now.

So much control, removal and interruptions. I don't even mind the effect, it is the constant lagging of opponents at every phase: both mine and theirs.

JUST PLAY THE FUCKING GAME
 

Habaneroguy

Member
Nov 4, 2018
82
Did anyone in here get remotely close to completing the event? I went 2-2. Won first 2 then ran into Izzet phoenix twice and got wrecked. 11 life on turn 4. Oof.
 

bardo

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,767
Up to Gold rank now. Red Fell Red smokes. I replaced one Light Up the Stage with an Act of Treason for those times that the game goes a bit long. But, honestly, games are usually done pretty quickly.

Is this a popular deck? as it seems to catch people by complete surprise. I'm thinking about buying the cards to craft it in Paper and going to play Standard at a local store to see how it stacks up.
 

Brian Damage

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,372
UK
I really hope the next set comes with something that can help deal with Field of the Dead. Pretty much all viable land hate disappeared post-rotation. I've been trying to run under such decks with aggro but unless I get an ideal hand it never really works out. Unmoored Ego seems to be the best bet if you can cast it before the first Field comes down but that kind of locks you into UB. That Dimir doesn't seem to be very prevalent suggests it doesn't fare well against many other decks either.
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,484
I really hope the next set comes with something that can help deal with Field of the Dead. Pretty much all viable land hate disappeared post-rotation. I've been trying to run under such decks with aggro but unless I get an ideal hand it never really works out. Unmoored Ego seems to be the best bet if you can cast it before the first Field comes down but that kind of locks you into UB. That Dimir doesn't seem to be very prevalent suggests it doesn't fare well against many other decks either.
Ego hitting all four copies just makes the deck a fair but very strong ramp deck.

Ashiok brought in from the board for an aggressive deck to shut down Golos tutoring and Circuitous Route is better... yet still very beatable.
 

Brian Damage

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,372
UK
Ego hitting all four copies just makes the deck a fair but very strong ramp deck.

Ashiok brought in from the board for an aggressive deck to shut down Golos tutoring and Circuitous Route is better... yet still very beatable.
Yeah, getting Ashiok early enough to shut down Circuitous Route could buy a fast deck enough time to beat them down before a board wipe or a big Krasis. I've never really had an issue with Golos though, most black decks I run aren't lacking in ways to remove him and with enough Fields on the board he's not always a necessary component anyway.

I've been trying to get Boros tokens off the ground, but it's too slow to get going to get under Fields and it's one of the few decks that can out-wide me. It's exactly the kind of deck where I'd run Memorial to War, if it was still in rotation.

Do you think Claim the Firstborn stealing a big Krasis for a big swing-out could be a viable move?
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,484
Yeah, getting Ashiok early enough to shut down Circuitous Route could buy a fast deck enough time to beat them down before a board wipe or a big Krasis. I've never really had an issue with Golos though, most black decks I run aren't lacking in ways to remove him and with enough Fields on the board he's not always a necessary component anyway.

I've been trying to get Boros tokens off the ground, but it's too slow to get going to get under Fields and it's one of the few decks that can out-wide me. It's exactly the kind of deck where I'd run Memorial to War, if it was still in rotation.

Do you think Claim the Firstborn stealing a big Krasis for a big swing-out could be a viable move?
In BO3? That card seems like it's too narrow. I think the decks that can run it, namely the Torbran Red lists, may not need the help, but that's admittedly a damn interesting solution I'll be trying out.

I'm so tired of the mirror and spending an hour to finish three boring ass games that I'm desperate for alternative
 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,235
...I know this is potentially overcorrecting in a way, but I've played for my four wins a day at minimum almost every day since Guilds released. Only a little money put in at the start, and can play any meta deck I want, and have a plenty meaty collection in general.

...And I think I'm quitting the game cold turkey. I've just come to realize... I don't like standard. I think the closest I came to really enjoying it with any solid frequency was at the very start, pre-Allegiances. I still hated Teferi tuck control with a passion (and quite frankly, I have never gotten any enjoyment playing against control decks the whole of my time with the game), but I was having an okay enough time... But looking back, the novelty then of having Magic on demand was still fresh, and that surely played a role.

Plus, there HAVE been a couple of decks I enjoyed piloting along the way. Boros Angels, Phoenix, Gates, Feather. But they all had plenty of games I hated because of the decks I was up against. Plus looking back, aside from kind of Phoenix, they all got crushed out of the meta and were second tier decks rather quickly. (There have been a few other decks I was okayish enough with, but again, lots of games I just didn't find fun.)

I KNOW I full on hated the meta from WAR on. And then I was hoping the rotation would solve it... But I hate playing against Golos, Fires of Invention, and Simic Flash already, so I just have to come to the conclusion... I don't like Standard in general.

There would be the hope of Brawl, but without multiplayer and being in person, I doubt the nice experience of casual commander is going to be captured there at all, and it'll just be like shifted standard.

The one thing causing hesitation was still enjoying limited formats... but honestly, with how little fun I get from standard, it's essentially like a job to fund that stuff for me, and a rather low "paying" one at that.

Plus frankly... I went to Eldraine prerelease in person. Didn't do great, not even sure I even think the format is quite great... But that was easily more fun than any of my time with Arena for me. So think I might just get back to being nice and casual, just hitting up prereleases and Commander now and again, rather than grinding it out digitally and frankly making myself hate the game.

(Sorry for the long rant, just kind of wanted to get out my thoughts and firm up my decision.)
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,152
...I know this is potentially overcorrecting in a way, but I've played for my four wins a day at minimum almost every day since Guilds released. Only a little money put in at the start, and can play any meta deck I want, and have a plenty meaty collection in general.

...And I think I'm quitting the game cold turkey. I've just come to realize... I don't like standard. I think the closest I came to really enjoying it with any solid frequency was at the very start, pre-Allegiances. I still hated Teferi tuck control with a passion (and quite frankly, I have never gotten any enjoyment playing against control decks the whole of my time with the game), but I was having an okay enough time... But looking back, the novelty then of having Magic on demand was still fresh, and that surely played a role.

Plus, there HAVE been a couple of decks I enjoyed piloting along the way. Boros Angels, Phoenix, Gates, Feather. But they all had plenty of games I hated because of the decks I was up against. Plus looking back, aside from kind of Phoenix, they all got crushed out of the meta and were second tier decks rather quickly. (There have been a few other decks I was okayish enough with, but again, lots of games I just didn't find fun.)

I KNOW I full on hated the meta from WAR on. And then I was hoping the rotation would solve it... But I hate playing against Golos, Fires of Invention, and Simic Flash already, so I just have to come to the conclusion... I don't like Standard in general.

There would be the hope of Brawl, but without multiplayer and being in person, I doubt the nice experience of casual commander is going to be captured there at all, and it'll just be like shifted standard.

The one thing causing hesitation was still enjoying limited formats... but honestly, with how little fun I get from standard, it's essentially like a job to fund that stuff for me, and a rather low "paying" one at that.

Plus frankly... I went to Eldraine prerelease in person. Didn't do great, not even sure I even think the format is quite great... But that was easily more fun than any of my time with Arena for me. So think I might just get back to being nice and casual, just hitting up prereleases and Commander now and again, rather than grinding it out digitally and frankly making myself hate the game.

(Sorry for the long rant, just kind of wanted to get out my thoughts and firm up my decision.)
The unseen casual downside of Arena: EVERYBODY HAS BEST CARDS AND TOP DECKS. The game only rewards your wins, so even the people who don't want to be pests cave-into the strong decks eventually.

Then the question is: why bother playing something sub-optimal if you are going to be playing 90% against those Simir fucks, Zombie Land, Red 1/1 and other no-fun decks.

And the kicker from limited is that... I have a shitload of wildcards from the past year. Any money that goes into the draft is wasted: cards are worthless when you don't need them. Needs phantom draft.

I hope Wizards are working on the 2vs2 and more multiplayer modes, because those might be way more fun and variance than the current queues. I also liked some experimental modes, the pre-made decks and commander were good.

I miss social interactions too. There are probably many instances where both players would laugh, meme or discuss the game, but instead you get to say "Nice" and that is it. Heartstone removed the social elements from the card game and MTG is following blindly...

I don't see many control decks in Bo1, it's usually Mono Red, Simic Flash, and some form of Rakdos or Mono Black aggro.
Fuck those Simic Decks, that 3/2 Elf is holding the priority together with other Flash creatures.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,660
Standard has always sucked. It’s a money treadmill that just isn’t interesting when the best decks are found so quickly.

Limited is where it’s at.
 

Copenap

Member
Nov 1, 2017
625
Something similar to the beginner leagues in paper would be fun, e.g. start with a sealed deck and each week you can buy up to lets say 3 booster to add to that card pool. Sure, there would be a lot of variance and some pools would suck but at least you would not just play meta decks while still being stronger than normal limites decks as time goes bye. Could be Gems only entry so it's a win-win...
 

JustinBailey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
887
Standard has always sucked. It’s a money treadmill that just isn’t interesting when the best decks are found so quickly.

Limited is where it’s at.
I loved standard during emrakul the promised end days but before the energy decks took off. And I hadnt played constructed in the 20+ years I had played magic. The problem isnt standard its that they are pushing standard into a format where the best decks break the format. Also Arena is hugely problematic for the game IMO.
 

Izzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
262
I know I'm late to the standard party but holy hell what an absolutely stupid night to try and get some ladder work in. I'll absolutely never understand the folks try-harding silver 4. Like seven straight matches at the rank floor against bant fields or oko (including a turn 3!!!), and a Jeskai fires peppered in for good measure. It's dumpster tier, i'm just trying to get a few pips while I clear quests, but naaaah we gotta pretend we're at the pro-tour. I can't even roll my eyes across the table here.

Man, where's my brawl queue?
 

Brian Damage

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,372
UK
Eh, I'm not going to judge people for playing competitive decks in ranked no matter how low. When the whole point of ranked is to try and climb the ladder, naturally you're playing to win. Where else are they supposed to play those decks? I sure as hell don't enjoy seeing them in the casual queue.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,701
I know I'm late to the standard party but holy hell what an absolutely stupid night to try and get some ladder work in. I'll absolutely never understand the folks try-harding silver 4. Like seven straight matches at the rank floor against bant fields or oko (including a turn 3!!!), and a Jeskai fires peppered in for good measure. It's dumpster tier, i'm just trying to get a few pips while I clear quests, but naaaah we gotta pretend we're at the pro-tour. I can't even roll my eyes across the table here.

Man, where's my brawl queue?
I don't see the problem with this. You'd have a valid complaint in casual queue.
 

Chojin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,755
Ladder is ladder. Lots of people are moving up from a new rotation so you'll see a lot of tier 1 decks in the first month of a release.

Standard unranked is another story. It's lame but people's defense is usually to get their dailies in. Which honestly is bunk cause no daily requires actual wins. But yeah it's magic. Just how it is.

A real fix will be when they finally implement friends lists. It'll make kitchen table magic much easier if you can play games with your friends and establish ground rules.
 

Izzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
262
You guys are right. And thinking about it in the morning, I’m pretty sure the cost of the decks messed me up. In RNA and going into WAR, all ranks were filled with meta too, but a huge chunk of that was cheap mono blue tempo and only slightly more expensive mono red. I think it felt less bad when I could come up with a narrative that someone was doing the best with the uncommons they pulled and crafting 4-8 rares.

In reality, there’s still the same amount of spikes and now I don’t get to pretend it’s something else because the cost of this meta is higher. Lol, I really need to not post for 12 hours after playing ladder.
 

Yeef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
863
New York
Ladder is ladder. Lots of people are moving up from a new rotation so you'll see a lot of tier 1 decks in the first month of a release.

Standard unranked is another story. It's lame but people's defense is usually to get their dailies in. Which honestly is bunk cause no daily requires actual wins. But yeah it's magic. Just how it is.
Daily quests don't require wins, but daily wins do. Some people use "daily" to mean both.
 

bardo

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,767
Went on a 5 game win streak, one win away from Platinum, and yup terrible draw/mulligan. How come the last win in a rank is the absolute worst to actually complete?

EDIT: Now lost four in a row. UGH
 

Justumhm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
377
Wow! yall weren't kidding with all those Golos decks on Bo3.
That being said, I tilted them to hell and back with my self mill deck, won back to back just now :>
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,371
These 28 land Grazer decks would spend a lot of time flooding out and dying without Field though. Normal ramp decks don't get to have lands be such live draws in the late game.
You can do insane things without Field though. Krasis, Agent of Treachery, Mass Manipulate etc.

You can't do insane things with Field if ramp isn't already out of control.

For me that makes ramp the problematic part, which Field takes over the top in power and consistency.

Also worth pointing out that almost none of the current ramp loses any card advantage.
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,484
You can do insane things without Field though. Like Agent of Treachery on 4 or Mass Manipulate their whole board whenever.

You can't do insane things with Field if ramp isn't already out of control.
Agent on 4 is a tempo swing.

Field is inevitability.

Any big spell you can power out with ramp in current Standard doesn't have the power of sheer inevitability of Field. It's a difference in kind, not just degree, of power.
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,371
Agent on 4 is a tempo swing.

Field is inevitability.

Any big spell you can power out with ramp in current Standard doesn't have the power of sheer inevitability of Field. It's a difference in kind, not just degree, of power.
Of course. I don't think there's anything wrong with inevitability. Only when "inevitably" means turn 6. Which is caused by ramp.
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,484
Of course. I don't think there's anything wrong with inevitability. Only when "inevitably" means turn 6. Which is caused by ramp.
If you ban Circuitous Route and Growth Spiral and Arboreal Grazer, Golos Field would still be a stupid deck.

And none of those cards are overly powerful for the general concept of ramp strategies. They're overpowered because the strategy they're fueling just wants a bunch of lands in play for the sake of having lands.
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,371
If you ban Circuitous Route and Growth Spiral and Arboreal Grazer, Golos Field would still be a stupid deck.

And none of those cards are overly powerful for the general concept of ramp strategies. They're overpowered because the strategy they're fueling just wants a bunch of lands in play for the sake of having lands.
It's true that Field is the easy hit if you just want to nuke the whole archetype. And maybe they'll have to. Redundancy is so high among ramp that hitting one or 2 doesn't do all that much like you said.

But to me the fundamental issue is still how strong ramp is right now. Field is this janky little tapped land that becomes a monster when you can just smash all your lands on the table like it's nothing.
 

Brian Damage

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,372
UK
By design there is no way to prevent lands from being played. So when you have a land that rewards lands entering the battlefield for no mana cost and very little in the meta that can get rid of it, there's not much interactivity beyond dealing with the fallout (on your turn, given that there's only one instant speed board clear in standard afaik).
 

IceMarker

Member
Oct 26, 2017
613
United States
Iirc the only things you can't really respond to normally in Magic is mana abilities, playing lands, the first activation of a PW loyalty ability (as long as priority isn't passed by it triggering an ability by entering the battlefield) and turning a morph face-up. I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,701
Iirc the only things you can't really respond to normally in Magic is mana abilities, playing lands, the first activation of a PW loyalty ability (as long as priority isn't passed by it triggering an ability by entering the battlefield) and turning a morph face-up. I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple.
PW abilities can responded to.

You can’t respond to permanents entering or leaving the battlefield (but you can respond to triggers based on ETB). That’s why PW can be used immediately.
 

SonicXtreme

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,282
azorius flyers so good, 30-10 with it so far, only budget deck i like since cavalcade feels more repetitive, i think sephara is the only rare/myth and rally of wings is super strategic when you realize the defensive windows it opens up as well as the charge victories, or things like turn 3 sephara + rally for huge blowouts
 

Izzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
262
Maaaan, mainboarding 4x hushbringers should never be a correct build, but it’s managed to turn insta losses into winnable games. This meta is wonky.