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Magic: the Gathering |OT| Guilds of Ravnica - We built this city on blocks of gold

Oct 25, 2017
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$5, first ever reprint. New art by Terese Nielsen, unfortunately.



So that art everyone thought was for Dig Through Time is just packaging art.
How often do they do packaging-only art?

Also, I wonder how long WotC will continue to work with Nielsen. She's one of their most iconic artists, but considering their progressive and inclusive stance as a company, I can't see that there's a fit there outside of art already commissioned.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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"Artist who works for game that focuses heavily on social inclusion found to be a fervent supporter of politicians that oppose those values" isn't "politics", it's just news.

She likely won't be used for future art without a massive mea culpa which is unlikely to come, and she probably doesn't need the game for income.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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The politics of figures in the game are eminently discussable especially when people involved in the game have been chased out for their politics and the company producing said game is at least fronting like they care about certain hot button cultural issues.

Terese Nielson getting a free pass because her art is good is super hypocritical given some of the other things people (of varying positions) have gotten chased out of the community for. It's also largely a subject that's been kept hush hush which is again, very hypocritical.

Her name is on the cards. We're allowed to talk about her here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I agree.

I also agree that politics these days gets completely exhausting and can completely empathize with the position of “can there please be a place I can forget about it.”
 
Oct 31, 2017
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I can understand the opposite perspective, but I don't think it's particularly inclusive to blacklist people for liking bad tweets. I don't think "we've chased other members of the community out" is a great precedent, either. IMO, as long as she likes bad politics on her own time and isn't practicing intolerance or saying intolerant things, then she meets my standard of community acceptance.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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I can understand the opposite perspective, but I don't think it's particularly inclusive to blacklist people for liking bad tweets. I don't think "we've chased other members of the community out" is a great precedent, either. IMO, as long as she likes bad politics on her own time and isn't practicing intolerance or saying intolerant things, then she meets my standard of community acceptance.
they can stop to commisioning her artworks thought.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I can understand the opposite perspective, but I don't think it's particularly inclusive to blacklist people for liking bad tweets. I don't think "we've chased other members of the community out" is a great precedent, either. IMO, as long as she likes bad politics on her own time and isn't practicing intolerance or saying intolerant things, then she meets my standard of community acceptance.
It was a lot more than generic republican stuff.

And she really doesn't need MTG, IIRC she's expensive to commission.
 
Oct 31, 2017
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they can stop to commisioning her artworks thought.
Yeah, it's a fine line for me. Wizards are certainly within their rights to stop commissioning, and I wouldn't protest, but I'd prefer them to keep doing it under the principle of "I think a tolerant community should also tolerate some level of bad politics if they aren't acted on."

It was a lot more than generic republican stuff
Fair enough, if it's that bad then defenses probably don't apply.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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Yeah, it's a fine line for me. Wizards are certainly within their rights to stop commissioning, and I wouldn't protest, but I'd prefer them to keep doing it under the principle of "I think a tolerant community should also tolerate some level of bad politics if they aren't acted on."



Fair enough, if it's that bad then defenses probably don't apply.
"Why do tolerant people don't tolerate intolerance" is a terrible attitude.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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The funny thing about Masters sets is Yugioh basically does sets a few times a year with much needed reprints (eg. Battle of Legends) and they don't cost nearly as much and are the price of a standard YGO box set. Reprints are always done in sets and structure decks and i honestly think it's a joke we have to wait like over 20 years for a card like Mana Drain or over 10 years for Shadowmoor reprints. I would honestly have a cheap game to play than worry about people in the MTG Finance community getting shitty about losing money on their cards.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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The problem is that it inevitably goes exactly where it did: an ethical debate about blacklisting someone. Why does everything have to turn into an ethical debate?

There has literally never been a productive ethical debate on ERA, or GAF for that matter.
Pizzagate is far beyond the pale of acceptable discourse. Fox News won't touch that shit.

It's not really a debate from WotC's perspective. It's a "stop commissions because holy shit that's toxic waste."
 
Oct 25, 2017
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New York
yeefbear.com
The funny thing about Masters sets is Yugioh basically does sets a few times a year with much needed reprints (eg. Battle of Legends) and they don't cost nearly as much and are the price of a standard YGO box set. Reprints are always done in sets and structure decks and i honestly think it's a joke we have to wait like over 20 years for a card like Mana Drain or over 10 years for Shadowmoor reprints. I would honestly have a cheap game to play than worry about people in the MTG Finance community getting shitty about losing money on their cards.
The thing is, there's a spectrum between "Magic Financier" and "I don't care about the value of my cards at all" and most people fall toward the middle leaning toward the financier side. Nobody wants to spend a bunch of money on a deck only to have it lose 80% of it's value in a month. We've seen this effect in standard when they were doing masterpieces. Standard prices were super low, but it ended up actually discouraging people from jumping in because, even though it was cheap to build a deck, it was basically impossible to sell those cards down the road and impossible to trade/sell cards that you acquired but didn't want since basically everything was bulk.

My understanding is that the price on Yugi-oh singles crashes because they reprint them into oblivion, which isn't really good for the player base or the company.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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yu gi oh need to have costant reprint cause it doesn't have a standard format, if older and powerful cards weren't easily available the competitive scene could die in a heartbeat.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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The large problem with the financier side of Magic is the Reserve List, at the end of the day. Ever since Modern Masters 2, Wizards has (despite some issues here and there) done a good job utilizing Standard sets, Masters sets, and supplemental products to keep the prices of Modern decks down. If the eventual goal of the company is to essentially kill off Legacy and have Modern as the de facto Eternal format, they're doing a great job. I just don't see Modern as a truly viable investment anymore as a result.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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if only the dual lands weren't on the reserved list...
They shouldn't be. Having them on the List quite literally violates the rules of the List. They were reprinted in Revised. Reserve List cards are supposed to have been never been reprinted.

Honestly, if they just took the duals off the List, the issues would largely be minimal with it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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The large problem with the financier side of Magic is the Reserve List, at the end of the day. Ever since Modern Masters 2, Wizards has (despite some issues here and there) done a good job utilizing Standard sets, Masters sets, and supplemental products to keep the prices of Modern decks down. If the eventual goal of the company is to essentially kill off Legacy and have Modern as the de facto Eternal format, they're doing a great job. I just don't see Modern as a truly viable investment anymore as a result.
modern deck prices were way up this year despite 2 masters sets.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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modern deck prices were way up this year despite 2 masters sets.
That's largely because of the disaster that was Masters 25. That's what I was referring to when I mentioned "some issues". Following up Iconic Masters (which itself had some issues) with an outright molten disaster was highly problematic.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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modern deck prices were way up this year despite 2 masters sets.
That was 100% because Jace and BBE being unbanned blew up the meta and basically reset prices as everyone shifted around decks.

Isn't the thing with YGO that they have rotating banlists? Things are banned until they release a product with the card in it then unban the card to promote the product. I don't follow it too closely so I might be wrong there. On the WotC end they have this completely weird notion that they shouldn't reprint anything ever, despite also being concerned about design space usage over time.

The problem is that it inevitably goes exactly where it did: an ethical debate about blacklisting someone. Why does everything have to turn into an ethical debate?

There has literally never been a productive ethical debate on ERA, or GAF for that matter.
I thought you weren't engaging with this discussion? The intent of the subject was to inform people who didn't know. Anything in this thread can devolve into ethical debate, this reprint convo could devolve into an ethical debate. Acting like ethical debate is the end of the world is an easy out to avoiding subjects that make you uncomfortable.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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This is because Iconic Masters and Masters 25 did nothing to help the situation
Iconic Masters tried. It did. It had some much needed reprints within. The problem with it was simply that the Mythic slot was not packed with enough value.

Masters 25, however, is an oddity. I'm not sure how Wizards bungled a Masters set so badly. The Limited was trash, there was barely any real value, and it was too close to a previous Masters set.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Every time a new, big reprint is revealed for Ultimate Masters, I'm left saying "Wow, I had no idea that card was so expensive!"

Some of the reprints have been spicy. Though there are still a good number of dollar cards in the rare slot (no way to avoid that) which is going to make busting packs a rollercoaster >_<
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Iconic Masters tried. It did. It had some much needed reprints within. The problem with it was simply that the Mythic slot was not packed with enough value.

Masters 25, however, is an oddity. I'm not sure how Wizards bungled a Masters set so badly. The Limited was trash, there was barely any real value, and it was too close to a previous Masters set.
"they still buyed an underwhelming iconic master, we can literally put crap in those sets and they will still buy" most likely.
 
Dec 12, 2017
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Ebay has code PICKFAST that gives 15% off your order if anyone is looking to buy a box of Ultimate Masters. Boxes come to a little under $240 with the code.

The code is through the app only.