Magic: the Gathering |OT| Guilds of Ravnica - We built this city on blocks of gold

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,710
This isn't wrong, but I also think it misses out on the fact that if there isn't a competitive circuit, there probably isn't a need/market for as many vendors as we currently have, and those "Invisible" players (especially the EDH crowd) rely on those same vendors.

It also seems crazy- in the era where heavy amounts of money is being spent on Esports by all sorts of corporate interest- to completely gut your "esports" product
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,458
This isn't wrong, but I also think it misses out on the fact that if there isn't a competitive circuit, there probably isn't a need/market for as many vendors as we currently have, and those "Invisible" players (especially the EDH crowd) rely on those same vendors.

It also seems crazy- in the era where heavy amounts of money is being spent on Esports by all sorts of corporate interest- to completely gut your "esports" product
Yeah, this aspect is very important. (Also, related to why expeditions were awful as it reduced the amount of singles buy/sell sales volume $-wise)

But the point about MTG being a bad spectator sport with unmarketable pros has been an obvious one for ages. The PT and OP are primarily for players.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,002
This isn't wrong, but I also think it misses out on the fact that if there isn't a competitive circuit, there probably isn't a need/market for as many vendors as we currently have, and those "Invisible" players (especially the EDH crowd) rely on those same vendors.

It also seems crazy- in the era where heavy amounts of money is being spent on Esports by all sorts of corporate interest- to completely gut your "esports" product
I’m not sure that stores need those super competitive players. At my local stores, most people attend FNM drafts just to have fun with friends. If anything, if I were Wizards I’d be looking to create a limited format that allows you to spend more time with friends. I have friends who only avoid FNM because they might get put in a table without any of the friends they went with.

It’ll be interesting to see what they do with Arena tomorrow. Besides kill Magic Online that is.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,383
I think if you're going to focus on the esports aspect you really do have to move everything over to digital, which is something they've understandably been reluctant to do.

The appeal of esports is the always-on nature of it. You can catch a stream whenever. If you ever happen to get good enough on the ladder, you transition "seamlessly" (not really, but in the perception of players) into pro play. There's no "gypsy life" chasing events around the world to grind out tournaments, there's no awkwardly-timed events in Hellsinki at 6 AM when you want to be watching someone play, there's no judges and no draws and no cheating. Basically, what people like about esports is that it's none of the things Professional Magic has been for the last twenty years.

And it could be that thing, if they moved it entirely to digital play for tournaments, but they won't.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,726
Speaking for myself, I got into Magic through a combination of desiring a play experience like Hearthstone (a game I got into mostly because of my previous love of Warcraft) while also being able to interact and play with people in a face to face setting IRL. I have no desires to attempt to play at the highest levels but I am perfectly fine playing competitively in a more intimate setting like my LGS where I know the people I am playing with. I will be going to GP Vancouver because I was just planning on being in Vancouver around this time anyway but I have no desire to play in the main event and instead I bought a Limited Fanatic package.

I pay very little attention to who is playing at the top tables and my only interaction with pro play is just looking at decklists after the fact. Or maybe I'll read some free articles on CFB or SCG. So if Wizards was to pump a lot more money into the pro scene, they probably wouldn't see that many extra dollars from me.
 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,128
Now see, there's a clear answer here. Yugioh already gave us an example of a world where a card game was the biggest thing around. And what did they have that we don't? That's right, holograms. Wizards just needs to make perfect, interacting holograms of all the cards. I'll leave it up to them whether or not they want to have the competitors feel physical pain when they lose life.

(But really, I feel like streamers are probably more important than the competitive environment, because it seems hard to get people invested in watching people play cards unless the personalities are interesting, too.)
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,383
I mean if AR ever gets good I would totally play a Yu-Gi-Oh AR game where you have to do dumb poses and act like an asshole to your opponent.

It would be the complete opposite of these phenomenally bland Arena emotes.
 

darkside

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,518
So uh MTGO not even being mentioned in this is pretty much the final death knell right? Theres like no reason for it to exist if the "serious" online Magic isn't being supported with this
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
209
So uh MTGO not even being mentioned in this is pretty much the final death knell right? Theres like no reason for it to exist if the "serious" online Magic isn't being supported with this
Depends how quickly Arena catches up with non-rotating formats and things like cube.

I do wonder if modern will be played on this circuit, even if just paper. If not it's putting a lot of pressure on the R&D guys to keep standard engaging.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,383
MTGO will be a place for people to play Commander, Legacy, and Modern for potentially a pretty long time depending on how on-the-ball they are with working through the back catalog of old sets in Arena. (Assuming that's even ultimately the plan.)
 

darkside

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,518
Depends how quickly Arena catches up with non-rotating formats and things like cube.

I do wonder if modern will be played on this circuit, even if just paper. If not it's putting a lot of pressure on the R&D guys to keep standard engaging.
Its basically impossible for them to get modern on MTGA there are just too many cards. Like if they did 1 old set a month (ignoring the logistics - theres no way to do that with the current economic model) it'd still take them like 5+ years to catch up.

They'll probably do a neo-Modern format starting with Kaladesh (or maybe a couple blocks before that which is feasible) and everything from there forwards. Or just add in Modern via Modern Masters type of sets where they are only adding in cards people actually play.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,458
Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast announce huge esports investment for 2019
Just today, at the Games Awards, Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast unveiled exciting futures for Magic: The Gathering fans and players. Millions of online viewers tuned in for the Awards and saw the big announcement — a huge investment into Magic esports.

The year 2019 brings a newly restructured Magic esports program. The competitive program is for Magic: The Gathering and Magic: The Gathering Arena. Not only are we seeing a complete restructure, but a huge investment of money backs these tournaments — $10 million to be exact.

Magic esports
Magic esports encompasses both Magic games — Magic: The Gathering Arena and tabletop Magic. The new program is designed to appeal to Magic‘s 20 million players around the globe. The pool of money will be divided among all Magic esports tournaments. A total of 10 tournaments are played each year. These are called Mythic Championships along with other partner-run events. The 10 million will be split equally between Magic Arena and tabletop Magic.

The esports program will kick off at PAX East in Boston next year. The tournament will be a hefty $1 million invitational. This Mythic Championship will be the first $1 million tournament held at PAX East for 2019.

Chris Cocks, the President of Wizards of the Coast, commented on the importance of Magic esports and its commitment to esports:

Today is an extremely important day for Magic: The Gathering as we announce our commitment to esports and our Magic players by introducing a new tournament structure with a $10 Million prize pool. We have worked diligently to create a program that will establish Magic as a major player in esports, particularly with Magic: The Gathering Arena in the collectable card game category.​
Magic Pro League
The restructure of Magic esports also ushers in the launch of the Magic Pro League. This league will feature the 32 top ranked Magic players. These players are automatically qualified for each Mythic Championship. Each player will receive a competitive pro contract and a shot at the $10 million prize pool over the course of the year.

This program was designed to support players and push the game to new heights. The Vice President of Esports at Wizards of the Coast, Elaine Chase, is excited to bring the game to a broader audience:

The past 25 years of Magic competition has led us to design this comprehensive esports program that would support Magic: The Gathering Arena, while increasing our investment in tabletop Magic. Magic Esports will catapult the game to new heights while providing support to the players by giving them the platform to build their brand and bring Magic to a broader audience.​
Wizards of the Coast
The organization that brings people together through Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons is Wizards of the Coast. They strive to build a community of players for both tabletop and digital games. Wizards of the Coast is a subsidiary of Hasbro Inc., the company behind Magic: The Gathering. Hasbro is also responsible for other such popular series including Monopoly, My Little Pony, and Transformers. Both companies have been working to bring Magic esports to more players and celebrate esports.
The Leek btw.
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
The fact that Ultimate Masters is specifically a graveyard themed set is something I didn’t notice until right now
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,726
Absolutely guaranteed that streamers will be invited to the Arena events for visibility.
Blizzard doesn't invite the biggest streamers to their most important tournaments just for visibiilty. Usually they just get invites to exhibition type stuff. I don't think WotC will necessarily be all that different. So you might see Trump/Amaz/Day9/Kibler at some exhibition events.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,383
To be honest it probably makes as much or more sense to have major streamers at MagicFests as artists.

The biggest draw at SGC Con is honestly probably the Commander VS group. The (misplaced) feeling of personal relationship viewers feel like they have with streamers makes them a huge draw for meet-and-greet type of events.
 

Crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,462
Here's the trailer for this I guess:


A bit cringeworthy TBH. But this sounds like they are injecting a lot more money into the scene which is good. Maybe it will actually profitable to play pro Magic.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,685
From the MTGA thread:

Here's what it unlocks based on what MTGA Tracker shows that I gained after using the code:
Conclave Tribunal
Cleansing Nova
Ghalta, Primal Hunger
Search for Azcanta
Sinister Sabotage
Vraska's Comtempt
The Eldest Reborn
Lava Coil
Risk Factor
Merfolk Branchwalker

Someone on reddit is claiming it is 4x of the Uncommons and 1x of the rares. I can't be sure cause I already had some copies of all these uncommons. It's definitely 1x of the rares.
The code is GAMEAWARDS and it seemed to work for me. :D
 
Major changes to competitive Magic
OP
OP
SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,549
Article going over the eSports changes, including Pro Tours being changed to Mythic Championships.

Despite being announced only a month ago, they're changing up the upcoming Pro Tour events as a result of this.

There are plenty of angry tweets from Magic pros about this.

And Arena will have a "Standard+" format, likely what people have nicknamed "Arena Extended" and "Arena Modern" with all sets that were on Arena being legal.
 

voOsh

Member
Apr 5, 2018
528
This announcement is a mix of good and bad IMO. It's great that more money is being invested into the competitive scene and it's undeniable how successful MTG Arena is. The game wasn't going to grow without a better digital presence and they have succeeded there.

I don't like completing gutting the Pro Tour. It's been around forever and has a good name -- better than Mythic Championships. Why are they always renaming stuff that doesn't need to be renamed? It's a little worrying to see that they are making this up as they go along and there is no serious future plan. They announced the 2 additional PTs just 3 months ago. Now they're cancelled. What kind of planning is that? It feels like they saw the cash rolling in from Arena and have decided to go all-in.

Modern and Legacy are probably dead right? Maybe SCG and Magicfests will keep them alive but I'm doubtful. I don't play Modern but I very much enjoy watching it as I do with Legacy. Since competitive is now being pushed mostly through Arena how can the eternal formats seriously survive? You can't have those formats at these Mythic Championships if you're funneling in players from Arena who may not have ever even seen a card older than Amonkhet.

I'll confess that I like the paper Magic product. Sure maybe it's not the friendliest spectator sport and it's got all it's own problems. But paper MTG is a unique social gaming experience. I thought Arena was supposed to bring new players into the game and eventually to paper. I don't think we're that many steps removed from WotC abandoning paper altogether. It's not likely but it's not out of the question. Cut all the manufacturing and distribution costs and just make people pay for digital.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,383
I don't like completing gutting the Pro Tour. It's been around forever and has a good name -- better than Mythic Championships. Why are they always renaming stuff that doesn't need to be renamed? It's a little worrying to see that they are making this up as they go along and there is no serious future plan. They announced the 2 additional PTs just 3 months ago. Now they're cancelled. What kind of planning is that? It feels like they saw the cash rolling in from Arena and have decided to go all-in.
I think, to be more specific, they saw the streaming and YouTube numbers for Arena content and realized their potential audience basically dwarfs what they get from live PT coverage. Which probably made it a lot easier to bite the bullet on changes that you have to assume have been rattling around in concept for the better part of five years, at the least.

But, yeah, they're reacting to the market; it's kind of a nice change for Wizards, to be honest.

Modern and Legacy are probably dead right? Maybe SCG and Magicfests will keep them alive but I'm doubtful. I don't play Modern but I very much enjoy watching it as I do with Legacy. Since competitive is now being pushed mostly through Arena how can the eternal formats seriously survive? You can't have those formats at these Mythic Championships if you're funneling in players from Arena who may not have ever even seen a card older than Amonkhet.
Legacy's going to be as dead as it's been. I mean it's essentially been a novelty format for years now, I don't see any particular reason for that to change. You already had people looking at you like you grew a second head if you asked, "Hey anyone here have a Legacy deck to play against mine?" at your LGS.

I'll confess that I like the paper Magic product. Sure maybe it's not the friendliest spectator sport and it's got all it's own problems. But paper MTG is a unique social gaming experience. I thought Arena was supposed to bring new players into the game and eventually to paper. I don't think we're that many steps removed from WotC abandoning paper altogether. It's not likely but it's not out of the question. Cut all the manufacturing and distribution costs and just make people pay for digital.
As a professional (ie, career) competitivel environment the paper game is terrible. It's rife with cheating, both blatant and accidental, which in turn makes it prone to being petty and childish when things (often) break down. It's incredibly slow, requiring entire weekends to play a few hours worth of actual meaningful games, and many of them needlessly going to draws. It's a horrible way to live, engendering this sort of gypsy caravan that chases the tournaments from state to state and country to country, making it almost impossible for the people doing it to have a decent quality of life even if they are winning, which most of them aren't.

It's a huge mess, and it should be abandoned for professional play, though I honestly still doubt that's going to happen. I don't think Wizards has the guts.

(This is in reference purely to paper professional play, and not whether or not paper as a format should exist at all. That's a different issue entirely, but it is absolutely wrong-headed to have players still playing paper for money matches when it demonstrably harms the integrity of the competition.)
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
Article going over the eSports changes, including Pro Tours being changed to Mythic Championships.

Despite being announced only a month ago, they're changing up the upcoming Pro Tour events as a result of this.

There are plenty of angry tweets from Magic pros about this.

And Arena will have a "Standard+" format, likely what people have nicknamed "Arena Extended" and "Arena Modern" with all sets that were on Arena being legal.
In fact, they are not pros anymore. They have actual pros now.

I’m guessing the timeline here is because they came up with this idea and figured they’d do it after the next year of Pro Tours and someone came up and told them they need to push esports NOW while Arena is still getting popular and not put it off.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
209
I think it's good they are changing the system, but they are still having their usual issue of leaving out a lot of detail in the initial announcement when it will have a huge effect on some people.
 

Irate Bandit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,157
Article going over the eSports changes, including Pro Tours being changed to Mythic Championships.

Despite being announced only a month ago, they're changing up the upcoming Pro Tour events as a result of this.

There are plenty of angry tweets from Magic pros about this.

And Arena will have a "Standard+" format, likely what people have nicknamed "Arena Extended" and "Arena Modern" with all sets that were on Arena being legal.
Article doesn't say anything about the Kaladesh and Amonkhet blocks ever coming back. I don't understand why they even made the effort to even add them to closed beta only to get rid of them completely from the game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,105
I wonder if Artifact's release moved up their timetable. Either way cementing MtG as a legitimate esport before more competitors get a foothold is probably a good idea. I think we all saw the move to esports/streaming as their central way of promoting the game coming, it's just a little surprising how quickly they're ripping the band-aid off. Hopefully they invest in production because even the minor tournaments that happened for Artifact's release looked more professional than most MtG events.
 

Copenap

Member
Nov 1, 2017
551
Article doesn't say anything about the Kaladesh and Amonkhet blocks ever coming back. I don't understand why they even made the effort to even add them to closed beta only to get rid of them completely from the game.
Because at that time they were in standard. There is no need to have them now because an Arena modern just for those sets would be silly especially as players already have enough cards they need to collect.

The only question now is if they bother to bring them back with next rotation. I currently don't think so because there is no reason to immediately fuck up your format with those terribly overpowered cards.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,105
Because at that time they were in standard. There is no need to have them now because an Arena modern just for those sets would be silly especially as players already have enough cards they need to collect.

The only question now is if they bother to bring them back with next rotation. I currently don't think so because there is no reason to immediately fuck up your format with those terribly overpowered cards.
Those sets were also already in the game for their internal testing and development. It wasn't much work to include them in the closed beta. Internally they had sets going back to SoI in the game.
 

Copenap

Member
Nov 1, 2017
551
Just heard about the Upper Deck / Konami / Yugioh drama. Can someone point me to a place where I can read up on some details?
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,710

The rare dumb meme that I feel actually has some validitiy. Had they even mentioned this as a Graveyard set before?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.