• iOS/Safari issues when launching the site from mobile home screens should now be fixed! A2HS button compatibility on Android Firefox has also been fixed! Add some purple to your home screen today.

Magic: the Gathering |OT| Ravnica Allegiance - These 5 Lands Will SHOCK You!

Oct 27, 2017
375
California
Blue usually gets huge creatures as control finishers and to fill the defacto aquatic monstrosity slot with a whale, kraken, or sea serpent of some kind. Normally not quite as efficiently or frequently as green gets though, more of the 6 mana 5/5 to green's 5 mana 6/6.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,811
Blue usually gets huge creatures as control finishers and to fill the defacto aquatic monstrosity slot with a whale, kraken, or sea serpent of some kind. Normally not quite as efficiently or frequently as green gets though, more of the 6 mana 5/5 to green's 5 mana 6/6.
They would have Islandwalk or defender unless an opponent controls an Island.

I mean like green in the sense that green's commons were universally underpowered in Guilds. At least red has a few solid first picks, but it never has much depth.
Did we forget Golgari Rotwurm and Streetbreaker Wurm?
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
580
New York
Oh I thought you were talking about Ravnica as a whole.

In GoR, green still had Siegebreaker Wurm. I also remember I lost a few times to Vigorspore Wurm and Devkarin Dissident.
Siege Wurm is actually bad in the format because there's so many cheap deathtouchers at common. Vigorspore Wurm for similar reasons. The best mono green commons are probably The cat and the beetle.
 
Oct 25, 2017
789
Am I weird for feeling rather underwhelmed by this set from what we've seen? Like, not my first prerelease season at all, but my first time being into standard, thanks to Arena. And I mean... I'm just not seeing this set having a big impact there. Whereas Guilds had a number of exciting cards, even with the note that I was totally under rating some cards like like Arclight Phoenix and Experimental Frenzy pretty hard. I'm sure there will definitely be a splash there and it'll matter, but it just feels kinda... eh to me. I dunno.
 
Oct 25, 2017
18,166
Am I weird for feeling rather underwhelmed by this set from what we've seen? Like, not my first prerelease season at all, but my first time being into standard, thanks to Arena. And I mean... I'm just not seeing this set having a big impact there. Whereas Guilds had a number of exciting cards, even with the note that I was totally under rating some cards like like Arclight Phoenix and Experimental Frenzy pretty hard. I'm sure there will definitely be a splash there and it'll matter, but it just feels kinda... eh to me. I dunno.
I think this set has a lot of good stuff but they were obviously constrained by cards like Teferi and Phoenix and were afraid to really push hard into new territory after getting burned with Phoenix.

Like seriously, there's a billion Phoenix hate cards in this set.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,505
716
Am I weird for feeling rather underwhelmed by this set from what we've seen? Like, not my first prerelease season at all, but my first time being into standard, thanks to Arena. And I mean... I'm just not seeing this set having a big impact there. Whereas Guilds had a number of exciting cards, even with the note that I was totally under rating some cards like like Arclight Phoenix and Experimental Frenzy pretty hard. I'm sure there will definitely be a splash there and it'll matter, but it just feels kinda... eh to me. I dunno.
Nah it’s pretty lame.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,020
How much are y'all dropping for this set? I might put in $20 bucks on Arena.
Probably about $500. I'm a full set collector though and only play Commander. I'll get the Lavinia promo, the 2 planeswalkers decks, bundle box, booster box, and the mythic edition.

All the extras I turn in for store credit, so it comes out to be cheaper than 500 in the end.

I could come out on top buy just buying an MTGO full set on Ebay, but I really like opening packs with friends while having a few beers and getting foils here and there.
 
Nov 9, 2017
6,097
That doesn't sound promising. What seemed wrong with the set?
Honestly, the Limited looked kind of boring to me to begin with, and Azorius being very... Azorius is not helping. No one at the Pre-Prerelease looked like they were legitimately having fun or that happy with their decks, and none of the matches looked like ones I would have been interested in playing from either side of the table.

The LRR guys are usually pretty good about bringing me up on a set because watching fun people have fun is a pretty easy way to sell anything, but whether it was just a fluke or an actual issue with the set, nothing about that stream looked worth the afternoon spent on it.
 
the set might not seem too exciting right away (outside of the shocklands), but it'll get a huge boost after 9 months

after the broken stuff like teferi / nexus of fate / search for azcanta rotate out we'll be able to play with more of the cards

a lot of the cards they make are really slow / fair / expensive, and these perform poorly when decks like creatureless control warp the meta towards the extremes of being either very fast or very slow

there's a chance that the mana is good enough where people can splash negates and spell pierces in their slower midrange decks, but control has enough tools between counterspells and removal to not really care about individual spells (like sweepers) resolving
 
Sep 14, 2018
284
after the broken stuff like teferi / nexus of fate / search for azcanta rotate out we'll be able to play with more of the cards
I have yet to hear a convincing argument of how it is that Teferi is broken. I think it's mostly hot takes by mediocre players and/or control haters, who get fogged into infinite turns and think it was Teferi's fault, just because he has a face they can associate with the admittedly obnoxious experience.

a lot of the cards they make are really slow / fair / expensive, and these perform poorly when decks like creatureless control warp the meta towards the extremes of being either very fast or very slow
What creatureless control decks are warping the meta? Jeskai was a small part of the last few standard GP top 8s (and isn't creatureless).
Are you talking about Arena's best of one meta? Cause that's almost not even worth talking about.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,057
I think this set has a lot of good stuff but they were obviously constrained by cards like Teferi and Phoenix and were afraid to really push hard into new territory after getting burned with Phoenix.

Like seriously, there's a billion Phoenix hate cards in this set.
Uh I doubt they'd have time to take the Phoenix meta shift in account between releasing grn and rna ?
There's gy hate because of golgari and izzet, simple as that
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,811
Honestly, the Limited looked kind of boring to me to begin with, and Azorius being very... Azorius is not helping. No one at the Pre-Prerelease looked like they were legitimately having fun or that happy with their decks, and none of the matches looked like ones I would have been interested in playing from either side of the table.

The LRR guys are usually pretty good about bringing me up on a set because watching fun people have fun is a pretty easy way to sell anything, but whether it was just a fluke or an actual issue with the set, nothing about that stream looked worth the afternoon spent on it.
I understand this sentiment. Guilds of Ravnica had cool keywords you could build around. Mentor was more complicated than it looked at first glance. Undergrowth needed a few Surveil cards to work properly. Surveil was good by itself but a Spybug or Campaign mattered a lot. Izzet could go both tempo or control with spells matter. Convoke probably ended up being the least exciting keyword.

In Allegiance, Afterlife and Addendum are one note. I would say Riot is too since 90% you will choose the +1/+1 counter. Spectacle is more interesting because you need to force damage for it to work. And Adapt has some cool interactions with a bunch of cards.

Not sure if they were designed by different teams, but Guilds easily comes out on top. I really have no idea how Attendum is Azorius flavour wise. Such a bust.
 
I have yet to hear a convincing argument of how it is that Teferi is broken. I think it's mostly hot takes by mediocre players and/or control haters, who get fogged into infinite turns and think it was Teferi's fault, just because he has a face they can associate with the admittedly obnoxious experience.

What creatureless control decks are warping the meta? Jeskai was a small part of the last few standard GP top 8s (and isn't creatureless).
Are you talking about Arena's best of one meta? Cause that's almost not even worth talking about.
teferi makes all the expensive sorcery speed stuff unplayable unless it has a clause like niv mizzet or carnage tyrant

there's no realistic opportunity to tap out. either you pass the turn and get buried in card advantage or your play gets countered/answered (or ignored in the case of nexus fog) and teferi gets to resolve and untap lands

i've played plenty of teferi since dominaria. the +1 invalidates almost all the counterplay that's in the card pool. every other 5 mana sorcery in recent memory can get answered somehow on the opponent's next turn. untapping 2 lands can nullify all those answers

it's so trivial to stop eldest reborn or ixalan's binding or vraska's contempt or immortal sun or sorcerer's spyglass or 5 haste damage or whatever else would normally kill a planeswalker. the only soft blind spot that might sometimes work is plagucrafter, but nobody is playing that. also your draws become complete shit if you put those cards in your deck against control.

that's why nobody even tries to actually let you play teferi and then answer it. because it doesn't work. they just lean on duress, some negate variant, or try to win with a low curve.

the card is so broken that you don't even have to draw it or be able to cast it to win games because of it. simply the threat of playing land #5 and teferi is enough to make people skip their turns

the types of decks that play it are beatable. control has its own variance and weaknesses. but the existence of the card doesn't just hate on a few things. it hates on anything that has a high mana cost, which is too many cards, and therefore broken in my opinion
 
Oct 25, 2017
884
The entire set is a mess. From Rosewater’s articles it seems none of the original guild mechanics that design came up with survived through to the end, which seems a really bad indicator to me. I’d be interested to know what the reason was behind this, because this set now feels like another ‘we made a huge change to how we do things and it broke a set’ experience.
 
Sep 14, 2018
284
teferi makes all the expensive sorcery speed stuff unplayable unless it has a clause like niv mizzet or carnage tyrant

the types of decks that play it are beatable. control has its own variance and weaknesses. but the existence of the card doesn't just hate on a few things. it hates on anything that has a high mana cost, which is too many cards, and therefore broken in my opinion
Why do you assume it's Teferi that's making "expensive sorcery speed stuff" unplayable?

Standard has plenty of hyper aggresive decks permanently pushing that good stuff out of the meta, but it's somehow not their fault but Teferi's.

It's funny you mention Eldest Reborn, a good expensive sorcery speed enchantment that saw absolutely no play until rotation because of the insanely powerful aggresive decks, and now that the format slowed down with rotation it's not ridiculous to run it even though Teferi exists (and is pretty much the primary target of it).

So rotation weakens aggro, teferi still there and now a 6cmc Planeswalker like Vraska is seeing play after being ignored for a year, so what was it keeping cards like that out of play? Teferi? (still there), or Hazoret/Heart of Kiran/Bomat? (gone)
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,764
I have yet to hear a convincing argument of how it is that Teferi is broken. I think it's mostly hot takes by mediocre players and/or control haters, who get fogged into infinite turns and think it was Teferi's fault, just because he has a face they can associate with the admittedly obnoxious experience.
Do you think it's a coincidence that most of the new Azorius cards are creature focused? There's a reason Dovin isn't a control focused PW. When an entire guild has to be designed in a way so it doesn't compliment a single card too much, you can consider that single card broken.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,057
Teferi is a PW that costs virtually 3 mana (meaning you can cast him + have a counter spell up on turn 5) and draws a card every turn while significantly exploding your mana. His + just does way too much and his ult is a 99% auto win button.
 
Sep 14, 2018
284
Do you think it's a coincidence that most of the new Azorius cards are creature focused?
Are they? I'd say an even amount fit right into a control shell. I think the consideration was specifically to not make Dovin compliment Teferi, they're not exactly shying away from control tools, a 4cmc wrath is being printed and it will lead so well into Teferi, so clearly they aren't that worried about draw go.

Everyone knows creatures have been getting better and answers have been getting narrower and overcosted, they've only recently started trying to correct that. Teferi wasn't some oversight by R&D/PlayDesign, they knew what they were doing (maybe a little mistake on the minus).
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,023
Teferi is obnoxious, not broken. Jeskai control is certainly a big deck but it's hardly dominant and Turbo Fog is not that common. There wasn't a single copy of Teferi in the T8 of the last standard MOCS. Teferi's impact feels outsized because the matches where he gets loose are so annoying.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,764
Are they? I'd say an even amount fit right into a control shell. I think the consideration was specifically to not make Dovin compliment Teferi, they're not exactly shying away from control tools, a 4cmc wrath is being printed and it will lead so well into Teferi, so clearly they aren't that worried about draw go.

Everyone knows creatures have been getting better and answers have been getting narrower and overcosted, they've only recently started trying to correct that. Teferi wasn't some oversight by R&D/PlayDesign, they knew what they were doing (maybe a little mistake on the minus).
I mean the wrath costs BBWW, so it actually might be the case that you can't drop it t4 and Teferi t5.
 
Nov 9, 2017
6,097
Not sure if they were designed by different teams, but Guilds easily comes out on top. I really have no idea how Attendum is Azorius flavour wise. Such a bust.
Another possible problem is that the cards necessary to "complete" these guilds may be tucked away in the third set of the block.

Like, with Set #1 you can't design too much around having to have the full block present because that set's going to be defining the new Standard for a long time. That one has to have relatively complete guild archetypes entirely self-contained to the set. This second set, it feels like maybe they felt more comfortable pushing half-complete guilds that need another set's worth of cards to really become interesting, since the set that will complete them is closer at hand, and Standard doesn't technically need any of them to function to begin with.

That's my theory, at least: there's just less pressure for this set to actually stand on its own as complete product, and it's leaking into both the Standard and Limited design of it. On some level it's allowed to just be mediocre and forgettable as long as it doesn't mess Standard up.