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Magic: the Gathering |OT| Ravnica Allegiance - These 5 Lands Will SHOCK You!
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Alright, read it. The part that stuck out to me is the discussion about the conflict between making the game as good a game as it can be, and making a game that sells well. Someone covered that topic too when reviewing Masters 25, though I don't remember who. To Jeff's credit, he points out that Richard Garfield is all aboard the "the game has to sell well" side and thus doesn't romanticize him too much.
Much of the article is about how Pro Tours / Mythic Championships need to get better coverage again, and, well, yeah.
Modern Horizons name leaked
Premium pricing seems like a real mistake. Part of the allure of the Battlebond and Conspiracy sets is that they're different but affordable. 7 a pop means drafts are $25 or more, which means stores are going to run one or two and then move on. Disappointing.
We still don't know what the set contains so it's difficult to say whether the premium price is justified or not.
Let's be honest. Lots of people complained about the super high pricepoint on Ultimate Masters, but there was so much ridiculous reprint value and the set sold so well that tons of Modern staples cratered in value.
Let's be honest. Lots of people complained about the super high pricepoint on Ultimate Masters, but there was so much ridiculous reprint value and the set sold so well that tons of Modern staples cratered in value.
I think 96% of people complaining about prices would have gone away if they had announced MSRP as "$9.99 for individual booster packs, $335 for sealed booster boxes with Ultimate Box Toppers". The issue I (and likely a lot of people had) was that they thought the MSRP for packs was going to be $14 (335/24)
I think they were pretty clear about ending the premium priced booster reprint product. It's probably the entire reason they retired the masters series, so they could lower the price on future such products and still maintain the masters brand as an expensive thing. The thing to realize is that anything brought to any market in a signifigantly broad manner will never be able to maintain initial buy in price. That is to say, modern masters was able to command a high price as long as its print run was extremely limited, almost no matter what was actually in the set. As soon as they started sending masters boosters to big retailers the bottom fell out and values just weren't able to be maintained. They should have lowered prices on masters products a while ago, and they're probably going to wind up *essentially* doing just that. The product just wont be called masters.
A fantastic read and the report format (and Cunningham's not-ever-changed profile picture) brought back a lot of nostalgia.
Clicking the bookmark "brainburst" always gives me a nostalgia hit, as well.
EDIT: to add something more, I thought this was a concise way of summing up something I've thought but couldn't quite put into words.
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I still use "brainburst.com" to access Magic TCGplayer TO THIS DAY lol
I've always typed that in if I'm on a browser where it's not bookmarked haha.
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Since the event was taken down, here's an image.
Modern Horizons definitely makes me think this will be like Future Sight. It was odd that MaRo would be so excited about a set that just put cards directly into Modern, and the way he worded things before made it seem like it wasn't necessarily in the nature of his design for it to be a Modern product, but it being Future Sight 2: Electric Boogaloo makes a lot more sense for his excitement.
Modern Horizons definitely makes me think this will be like Future Sight. It was odd that MaRo would be so excited about a set that just put cards directly into Modern, and the way he worded things before made it seem like it wasn't necessarily in the nature of his design for it to be a Modern product, but it being Future Sight 2: Electric Boogaloo makes a lot more sense for his excitement.
Since the event was taken down, here's an image.
Modern Horizons definitely makes me think this will be like Future Sight. It was odd that MaRo would be so excited about a set that just put cards directly into Modern, and the way he worded things before made it seem like it wasn't necessarily in the nature of his design for it to be a Modern product, but it being Future Sight 2: Electric Boogaloo makes a lot more sense for his excitement.
Now this is exciting. I really hope so.
Presumably it would be future card types and generally abilities that they're interested in testing without burning up standard with them.
As long as we don't get the horrible future shifted frame I'll be happy
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Future Sight was a wacky experimental set filled with "cards from the future", along with the "mix and match" cards from the rest of the Time Spiral block that combined mechanics from all throughout Magic. Mechanics like delve and several individual cards made their debut here. It proved to be too complex for most players, but many experienced players liked it a lot, including the developers. It's been a common request to have another set like it, and I imagine this is it. Check the link for the cards.
I know what Future Sight is. I was just curious to what extent you think a set called "Modern Horizons" can be like that.
The cards in the set have to be applicable to the Modern format in order for the set to be called "Modern Horizons" so any new cards by definition can't slide into Modern without WotC simply stating that this set is an exception to the rule. Do you think the product is Modern reprints + Timeshifted cards? Because that's more like "Modern and Horizons", not "Modern Horizons", if that makes sense.
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They've been hinting at a Modern product that inserts new cards without going through Standard for a while. Given the fact that Mark Rosewater, someone who's shown very little interest in reprint-only products, is hyping this up and it's a product he himself proposed, I can't imagine it's reprint-only.
I don't think "experimental product" and "print directly into modern" go together all that well. Designing a card to go specifically into a "directly into Modern" set means the cards have to be designed in such a way that's it's powerful enough to see play in an eternal format without warping the format. And to do so with experiemental designs? Risky as all hell. Especially when you don't have a Play Design team available that can adequately test a format as big and complex as Modern.
I don't think the set will be reprint-only but I can't see how you call a set "Modern" without reprints at all.
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Sorry, I don't think you did. I think I just misread you.
Here's what we know so far.
1.) It's an innovation set.
2.) It will "impact" Modern. (Whatever that means.)
3.) It's called "Modern Horizons" and will presumably cost more than a normal booster product.
4.) It's not a "Masters" set.
5.) MaRo thinks there will be near-unanimous consent that this will be an exciting product.
Personally, I have no idea how all five of these elements fit together to create a single product. Maybe I don't have the necessary imagination. Maybe MaRo is wrong about what he expects our response to be. The more I think about it the more problematic a set designed to be printed directly into Modern while skipping Standard seems, so I'm skeptical about that direction. My best guess is that it's some kind of Battlebond/Conspiracy-type set with a unique format while also containing a significant amount of Modern reprints.
Modern Horizons stream
Modern Horizons - Cabal Therapist
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Modern Horizons - Serra the Benevolent
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It's a four-mana Serra Angel that can do more next turn, or an unremoveable Worship over two turns.
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Since the set is including a bunch of new, pushed cards for Modern, the expensive cards are going to be in the new cards. Not the reprints.
Is the ink twice as expensive? Maybe a new paper pulp madre from a premium base? Last time I checked 15 cardboard cards are 15 cardboard cards. In Masters sets the pricing was still very gross but you were at least guaranteed a expensive rare/mythic since they were 100% reprints and they knew what actually played staples they were getting in there, but we still don't know where will the new cards sit in the Modern metagame and if they will be worth anything at all or just be 0.50€ bulk rares
I don't like paying more but it's extremely likely that there will be enough cards in this set that see play in Modern that the value of the set is going to stick more than a Standard set would. Also this will have a lower print run than a Standard set which will also push prices up since the cards in this set are unlikely to get reprinted any time soon.
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theoreticalspace asked: Can you explain to someone who doesn't play modern what's so innovative and exciting about modern horizons? Not trying to be adversary, just curious as a non modern player;
I think the best way to explain why this set is applicable to more than just Modern players is to go back to where the set began. When Ethan and I first pitched this set in the Hackathon, here's what we said, "One of the cool things about a supplemental set is that we can focus on ideas that we're unwilling to do in a Standard-legal set. What if we took off the shackles and just made a set full of cards that we know players would love, but are hard to do with all the limitations that come with a normal Magic set. What if we dove deep into the creative and mechanical elements of Magic's twenty-five year history and just had a blast designing cards? We could make something really awesome." It took us the week of the Hackathon to put together our proof of concept, but once everyone saw it, we were given the green light. And then we had a lot of fun making a very interesting set. You don't have to be a Modern player to love Modern Horizons just a Magic player.
February 28, 2019
I think the best way to explain why this set is applicable to more than just Modern players is to go back to where the set began. When Ethan and I first pitched this set in the Hackathon, here's what we said, "One of the cool things about a supplemental set is that we can focus on ideas that we're unwilling to do in a Standard-legal set. What if we took off the shackles and just made a set full of cards that we know players would love, but are hard to do with all the limitations that come with a normal Magic set. What if we dove deep into the creative and mechanical elements of Magic's twenty-five year history and just had a blast designing cards? We could make something really awesome." It took us the week of the Hackathon to put together our proof of concept, but once everyone saw it, we were given the green light. And then we had a lot of fun making a very interesting set. You don't have to be a Modern player to love Modern Horizons just a Magic player.
February 28, 2019
I'm curious about what this means for Modern as a format. I feel like they've done a pretty awful job shaping and cultivating the metagame via bans and printed answers if I'm being 100% honest. Maybe this set will be the start of them taking it seriously.
Would also love a Legacy Horizons as well... but I guess we gotta walk before we run.
Would also love a Legacy Horizons as well... but I guess we gotta walk before we run.
I have a suspicion that introducing a product that contains cards designed specifically for Modern, en masse, is going to be a net negative in the same way introducing EDH-centric cards has been a net negative for EDH.
But I don't play Modern so what do I know.
But I don't play Modern so what do I know.
Cut to the chase. Give us reserve list horizons where everything is printed straight into the reserve list. Wait...
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