Magic: the Gathering |OT| Ravnica Allegiance - These 5 Lands Will SHOCK You!

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Steve Winwood

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Oct 31, 2017
2,192
They legitimately don't have to worry about retiring MTGO from a Standard market perspective. It's only about Modern/Legacy/Vintage. What they should do is open up Modern Masters/Vintage Masters/Eternal Masters/etc drafts on a non-stop rotating basis at regular pack prices to just progressively tank the value of every card in every format on MTGO, then close it down.
I mean, there still needs to be a place to play Modern online. You can make the cards cheap, I'm all for that, but I don't get why you'd retire MTGO afterwards.
 

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
970
I mean, there still needs to be a place to play Modern online. You can make the cards cheap, I'm all for that, but I don't get why you'd retire MTGO afterwards.
It's a poorly developed legacy system held together by force of will and bubble gum. At some point (sooner rather than later) it'll cost more to maintain than it makes in profits.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,685
1. Gilded Sentinel is "last card in the pack" material. Cut it.
2. Imperial Lancer is also terrible. You don't have enough dinosaurs or significant pump.
3. Gruesome Fate is generally a trap. You want "one-of" at best. You want to think of a card like that kind of like an Act of Treason effect. It's only good with specific synergies or on the last turn of the game.
4. Cleansing Ray is a sideboard card. Cut both.
5. Blazing Hope is a terrible card and arguably the worst uncommon in RIX. Cut it.
6. Majestic Heliopterus is weak here. You don't have a lot of dinosaurs and your biggest ones already fly. So you're just paying 4 for a 2/2 flier which is weak.
7. Strider Harness is better if you have big creatures that can really benefit from haste. Like Colossal Dreadmaw. You don't have those so it's not worth including.

I think that leaves only a couple cards left to cut?
Thanks. I'll give it a shot.
 

Steve Winwood

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,192
It's a poorly developed legacy system held together by force of will and bubble gum. At some point (sooner rather than later) it'll cost more to maintain than it makes in profits.
Without knowing details, it'd surprise me if this were true. Modern and cube are two popular, lucrative offerings that they're nowhere close to having available online anywhere else. (And that's leaving aside the massive PR hit they'd take by failing to offer modern online.)
 

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
970
Without knowing details, it'd surprise me if this were true. Modern and cube are two popular, lucrative offerings that they're nowhere close to having available online anywhere else.
The cost comes from updating the platform with several new standard/supplemental sets a year, which seems to be seeing diminishing ROI now that Standard has shifted almost entirely to Arena. Cube drafts aren't going to float that boat forever.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,563
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They need to find a digital solution for eternal formats for sure. It really does feel like Arena is here to stay. They’d do well to eat the cost up front and get Modern working on the platform and Legacy too — I’d buy in to that.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
1,806
They need to find a digital solution for eternal formats for sure. It really does feel like Arena is here to stay. They’d do well to eat the cost up front and get Modern working on the platform and Legacy too — I’d buy in to that.
It sounds like a logistical nightmare just to get Modern into Arena. Are you going to implement every card legal in Modern, or just a subset? Go set by set or do several "Modern Masters" sets? Spend several years to get a giant pool and say "dump all your wildcards if you want to play"?

Then you have to think about Legacy and Vintage!
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,563
716
It sounds like a logistical nightmare just to get Modern into Arena. Are you going to implement every card legal in Modern, or just a subset? Go set by set or do several "Modern Masters" sets? Spend several years to get a giant pool and say "dump all your wildcards if you want to play"?

Then you have to think about Legacy and Vintage!
I’m sure it would be a nightmare, but there’s money to be made.

If you do it you put all the cards in. They could do it set by set or block by block, once a month, letting people experience the draft format for that set/block, then enable Modern when the format is all caught up. That’s a long path (16 blocks not counting Core sets) but I don’t know how else you introduce the cards, as 16 blocks all at once would be a disaster.

You could then probably create an eternal format that includes everything on Arena that will eventually become Modern when they’re all released.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,300
The problem is when people obtain all the Eternal cards, there's not much reason to spend any more money. Whereas Standard will always bring in money.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,563
716
The problem is when people obtain all the Eternal cards, there's not much reason to spend any more money. Whereas Standard will always bring in money.
People would just have to invest money to get new cards. Arclight is a desirable standard card I could see people grind for. They just need to print stuff that’s eternal playable a little bit more often is all.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,384
They need to find a digital solution for eternal formats for sure. It really does feel like Arena is here to stay. They’d do well to eat the cost up front and get Modern working on the platform and Legacy too — I’d buy in to that.
That seems possible but hard to work. I think for the near future (5 years, at least), there's no chance of that happening. They can save all this old stuff until post-modern hits a point where players are buying into standard less.
 

Serule

Member
Oct 25, 2017
275
Just introduce Super Standard. We all know it's coming.
Will probably happen this fall when Ixalan and Dominaria rotate. I’m guessing they will make Khaladesh and Amonkhet cards available then as well (they were usable in the alpha). They will probably never implement the full modern cardpool but maybe they could get Frontier (back to Tarkir block / M15)?
 

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
970
Will probably happen this fall when Ixalan and Dominaria rotate. I’m guessing they will make Khaladesh and Amonkhet cards available then as well (they were usable in the alpha). They will probably never implement the full modern cardpool but maybe they could get Frontier (back to Tarkir block / M15)?
Shadows block is also programmed into Arena, so it's a possibility--especially if they want to add a splash of chase cards specifically for Super Standard that are separate from current Standard.
 

keeblerdrow

Member
Dec 17, 2017
39
Including Kaladesh in any non-rotating format would be a mistake. It's like putting a rotting apple at the heart of your pie.
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
778
Kaladesh block better be in. I wanna be able to play with Walking Ballista. It's my favorite.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,563
716
They'd have a banned list and would hopefully not be afraid to use it.

Energy sucks a turd though so I dunno, I sort of wish they'd just ban the mechanic and all of the cards that use it entirely if I'm being honest.
 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,192
I really do feel like they'd be smart to start slowly introducing older sets, as quite frankly I don't think it's that hard to stabilize and just have everything you want in Arena with the current economy. I did it with $40 and consistent play, and I'd imagine they'll have more and more of their playerbase in that position as time goes on, and I'd much prefer they add more things to spend on in that way, rather than make their economy less generous. I guess cosmetics are likely coming eventually and will at least be something else to get people spending on, but still IMO it'd be good for them to, say, get on a schedule of releasing an old set in between each new set. (Regardless, this would all almost certainly wait for rotation and the introduction of the new eternal format, which I'm assuming will bare minimum contain the sets that were actively in use before open beta. Since, y'know, it'd be a pretty damn dull way to kick off their exciting new format by it just being "oh hey, it's the same standard you've been playing up till now, just with the newest set allowed too!")
 

IceMarker

Member
Oct 26, 2017
514
United States
I've been tossing this idea around in my head that if I were in some seat of control at Wizards, I'd probably do a nice refresh to the formats that are based on age of cards. Probably do something like merge Vintage and Legacy, keep Modern as is going back to 8th Edition when the frame was changed, have a new in-between format that has cards stretch back to when the M15 card frame was added, and then normal 2-year Standard. Of course with Arena in the mix the most likely as many have already mentioned will be some sort of Standard+ that only goes back as far as Arena has had cards programmed into it. Again, just my opinion, and I am by no means a veteran player. If I'm way off the mark here please tell me.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,563
716
I've been tossing this idea around in my head that if I were in some seat of control at Wizards, I'd probably do a nice refresh to the formats that are based on age of cards. Probably do something like merge Vintage and Legacy, keep Modern as is going back to 8th Edition when the frame was changed, have a new in-between format that has cards stretch back to when the M15 card frame was added, and then normal 2-year Standard. Of course with Arena in the mix the most likely as many have already mentioned will be some sort of Standard+ that only goes back as far as Arena has had cards programmed into it. Again, just my opinion, and I am by no means a veteran player. If I'm way off the mark here please tell me.
There’s such a huge power AND price gulf between Vintage and Legacy it would just kill Legacy.

I think an eternal format between Modern and Standard would just kill Modern.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,300
Vintage has more than a few cards banned in Legacy.

Imagine Mishra's Workshop or Bazaar of Baghdad in Legacy.
 

darkside

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,641
All for super standard but the current economic model barely works as a F2P game on Arena with the current sets, I hope they're not expecting people to pay the going rate for non-standard sets
 

Yeef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
803
New York
I've been tossing this idea around in my head that if I were in some seat of control at Wizards, I'd probably do a nice refresh to the formats that are based on age of cards. Probably do something like merge Vintage and Legacy, keep Modern as is going back to 8th Edition when the frame was changed, have a new in-between format that has cards stretch back to when the M15 card frame was added, and then normal 2-year Standard. Of course with Arena in the mix the most likely as many have already mentioned will be some sort of Standard+ that only goes back as far as Arena has had cards programmed into it. Again, just my opinion, and I am by no means a veteran player. If I'm way off the mark here please tell me.
Merging Vintage and Legacy doesn't really mean anything. Every card that's legal in Legacy is already legal in Vintage, so what you're really saying is "get rid of Legacy."

The in-between format you're talking about is called Frontier and was minorly popular in Japan for a few months before it died off.
 
Oct 25, 2017
203
Vancouver
Inspired by the "cast X spells of Y colour" quests in Arena, I try to keep one mono-coloured deck of each colour that I enjoy. My mono-Black deck has easily become my favourite, maybe even favourite deck that I have haha.

4 Drill Bit (RNA) 73
4 Kitesail Freebooter (XLN) 110
2 Dead Weight (GRN) 67
4 Diregraf Ghoul (M19) 92
4 Grasping Scoundrel (RIX) 74
4 Gutterbones (RNA) 76
3 Pilfering Imp (GRN) 81
3 Cast Down (DAR) 81
4 Burglar Rat (GRN) 64
4 Moment of Craving (RIX) 79
2 Vraska's Contempt (XLN) 129
17 Swamp (XLN) 268
3 Costly Plunder (XLN) 96
2 Divest (DAR) 87

There is something special about turn 1 creature into turn 2 Drill Bit + Drill Bit :)

Overall plan is to take relevant cards often and plant a few creatures that will, turn by turn, chip away. Eventually, you are both top-decking but ideally you can loop the Gutterbones out of the grave later on. Maybe the Reassembling Skeleton has a place just for pure grindiness.

I'm certain it can be improved. This is geared for Best of 1 if you couldn't tell from 17 lands. Ran with 18 for a bit and I felt compelled to drop another. I would honestly be tempted by 16 lands but I think that's probably a mistake. 18 might be right and maybe go down a Moment of Craving.

Anyway, I've had fun with it and have had pretty reasonable success just jamming games in the unranked coin-queues; getting any quests around attacking / Black spells.

If anyone has thoughts on improvements, I would love to hear them :)

Better view: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/monoblack-bits/

PS: Friends don't let friends play with Basics they didn't choose: https://aetherhub.com/Article/Here-is-how-you-change-basic-land-art-in-MTG-Arena (arena reference guide to picking your Basic lands)
 
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Oct 28, 2017
4,384

keeblerdrow

Member
Dec 17, 2017
39
You still need to ban out the core energy combo that caused Emrakul (part way), Marvel, and Felidar Guardian to get banned in the first place. It was clearly proven that the combo was just a great shell of extra value that you could slot ANY color win conditions into. It was flexible and also just powerful enough to add on a certain percentage of free wins every now and then.

With a few years of additions to the format, the power of that shell would level out to the rest of the format. But at the beginning, it would just dominate. Like it did in standard.
 

Justin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
784
Seattle, Washington
They can obviously change their mind but they pretty clearly said in the state of the beta when they moved to open beta that Kaladesh and Amonkhet would be back in the future.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,384
You still need to ban out the core energy combo that caused Emrakul (part way), Marvel, and Felidar Guardian to get banned in the first place. It was clearly proven that the combo was just a great shell of extra value that you could slot ANY color win conditions into. It was flexible and also just powerful enough to add on a certain percentage of free wins every now and then.

With a few years of additions to the format, the power of that shell would level out to the rest of the format. But at the beginning, it would just dominate. Like it did in standard.
That would be the other reason not to do it. Starting out with bans would suck.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,164
All for super standard but the current economic model barely works as a F2P game on Arena with the current sets, I hope they're not expecting people to pay the going rate for non-standard sets
Yeah, this is the big thing against adding Kaladesh/Amonkhet/etc to the game. Remember when they brought Kaladesh to Arena in beta? They gave everyone a playset of every important rare/mythic and a playset of all commons/uncommons. That's what you would have to do in order to make these old sets work in the older format. You can't just add a half dozen sets to this and have it work- you don't want to confuse newer players who don't understand that they should buy whatever the new set is instead of these packs
 
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