• To celebrate the release of Halo: The Master Chief Collection on Steam, Xbox Games Studios has provided 5 Steam copies of the game and 5 Xbox One copies of the game! We will be giving these away in the Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Some Steam copies will also be given away to the PC Gaming Era community.
  • An old favorite feature returns: Q&ERA is back! This time we'll be collecting questions for Remedy Entertainment, makers of Max Payne, Alan Wake, Quantum Break, and Control. Members can submit questions for the next 4 days, 19 hours, 41 minutes, 19 seconds. Submissions will close on Dec 12, 2019 at 12:00 AM.

Magic: the Gathering |OT| Ravnica Allegiance - These 5 Lands Will SHOCK You!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Justin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
851
Seattle, Washington
You still need to ban out the core energy combo that caused Emrakul (part way), Marvel, and Felidar Guardian to get banned in the first place. It was clearly proven that the combo was just a great shell of extra value that you could slot ANY color win conditions into. It was flexible and also just powerful enough to add on a certain percentage of free wins every now and then.

With a few years of additions to the format, the power of that shell would level out to the rest of the format. But at the beginning, it would just dominate. Like it did in standard.
If they include Kaladesh in the new format there will be five sets it will be joining since it rotated. It’s possoble that with these sets the energy shell won’t be as powerful as it was in standard and because the shell is so specific to the sets mechanic it’s unlikely it picks up much new in sets going forward. We will obviously know more once we know the cards in the next thee sets but it’s possible it is just a tier 1 deck instead of the tier 0 it was before.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,650
Attune must be banned.
I think marvel is fine actually. Especially with bedevil around too ?
 

Justin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
851
Seattle, Washington
I’m not really worried about the energy cards because the mechanic is parasitic so unless they do another energy set it isn’t going to get any better. The ones that I would be worried about would be things like Scrapheap Scrounger, Bomat Courier and anything that slots into RDW like the desert or Hazoret.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,154
Yeah, this is the big thing against adding Kaladesh/Amonkhet/etc to the game. Remember when they brought Kaladesh to Arena in beta? They gave everyone a playset of every important rare/mythic and a playset of all commons/uncommons. That's what you would have to do in order to make these old sets work in the older format. You can't just add a half dozen sets to this and have it work- you don't want to confuse newer players who don't understand that they should buy whatever the new set is instead of these packs
Hearthstone makes old packs available for purchase but you have to buy them off their website. They're not available in the client.
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
839
I feel like they'll do "flashback" drafts but not make the sets purchasable otherwise. This doesn't feel like that big a deal to me since you'll want what, maybe 10% of the rares or mythics from any specific set for "Arena Modern"? So you might get lucky and spike one if you're opening a Kaladesh pack instead of a current set pack, but in the majority of cases it's just gonna be ramping up your wildcard meter and hoping for random wildcards.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,154
Hearthstone also only requires 1 copy of any given Mythic, allows dusting, and has generally about half as many cards per set as MTG
Well yes, I do agree Hearthstone has the better economy. But I only brought up the issue to point out that there are ways of offering old card sets while not pushing them out to new players. Not sure if you were actually making a point against that?
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,960
Well yes, I do agree Hearthstone has the better economy. But I only brought up the issue to point out that there are ways of offering old card sets while not pushing them out to new players. Not sure if you were actually making a point against that?
What I'm saying is that the system that Hearthstone allows for Wild isn't something that you can reasonably port to Arena.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,154
What I'm saying is that the system that Hearthstone allows for Wild isn't something that you can reasonably port to Arena.
Unless you think they're going to delete Ixalan Block, Dominaria, and Core Set 2019 from the client at rotation (they're not), they're going to need a system like it.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,960
Unless you think they're going to delete Ixalan Block, Dominaria, and Core Set 2019 from the client at rotation (they're not), they're going to need a system like it.
What I'm talking about is that they aren't brining back cards that were exclusively in the closed beta (Amonkhet/Kaladesh), or cards that were found programed via datamining (such as SOI) but never actually released. The start of "Super Standard" will be Ixalan, Dominaria, and Core 2019. Those sets will be avalible only through wildcard redemption and maybe as prize support for more unique formats like Pauper, throwback drafts, etc.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,154
What I'm talking about is that they aren't brining back cards that were exclusively in the closed beta (Amonkhet/Kaladesh), or cards that were found programed via datamining (such as SOI) but never actually released. The start of "Super Standard" will be Ixalan, Dominaria, and Core 2019. Those sets will be avalible only through wildcard redemption and maybe as prize support for more unique formats like Pauper, throwback drafts, etc.
They can still offer Ixalan block, Dominaria, and Core 2019 packs for sale and not just stick to wildcards. They can do that without confusing new players by making the option harder to access. The differences between Hearthstone's and Arena's economies aren't significant enough that this option can't be done.

The door to putting Amonkhet/Kaladesh back into the game isn't fully closed even if they may refrain from doing so initially. And they can put them into the game the same way they offer other post-rotation sets like Ixalan, Dominaria, and Core 2019.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,108
I’m not really worried about the energy cards because the mechanic is parasitic so unless they do another energy set it isn’t going to get any better. The ones that I would be worried about would be things like Scrapheap Scrounger, Bomat Courier and anything that slots into RDW like the desert or Hazoret.
If you look at the final energy decks that got cub and attune banned you'll see the density of energy cards wasn't so high you had to only play energy cards. There was plenty of room to run generically good cards. Like there's no reason 4c energy wouldn't run Krasis for instance.
 
Last edited:

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,130
If you look at the final energy decks that got cub and attune banned then you'll see the density of energy cards wasn't so high you had to only play energy cards. There was plenty of room to run generically good cards. Like there's no reason 4c energy wouldn't run Krasis for instance.
A big problem with Energy is that the main package was so small and consistent that any deck in those colours played it. Kind of like the Wildgrowth Walker/Explore package in Standard right now, but without any way to interact with it. Power level was an issue, especially with Aetherworks Marvel/Emrakul, but it was the way it homogenized deck building that was the real problem, imho.
 

Justin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
851
Seattle, Washington
If you look at the final energy deck that got cub and attune banned then you'll see the density of energy cards wasn't that high. There was plenty of room to run generically good cards. Like there's no reason 4c energy wouldn't run Krasis for instance.
Going off Hueys worlds deck 19 out of the 22 main deck creatures used energy (Servent, Cub, Refiner, Whirler, Hydra) you also had Attune, Confiscation Coup, Harnesed Lightning and Aether Hub. Aside from the lands you only had 9 total cards without the energy symbol on them main deck.
 

keeblerdrow

Member
Dec 17, 2017
54
Going off Hueys worlds deck 19 out of the 22 main deck creatures used energy (Servent, Cub, Refiner, Whirler, Hydra) you also had Attune, Confiscation Coup, Harnesed Lightning and Aether Hub. Aside from the lands you only had 9 total cards without the energy symbol on them main deck.
Right. And then the archetype inserted its win conditions in that last 9 slots. And it could be ANYTHING powerful and it worked. Scarab God? Sure. Phoenix? Ya. Marvel and some Ulamogs, yep. Saheeli and Guardian? Happened.

It didn't matter what colors or mana costs, you could just slot in your most powerful stuff. The shell let you play it and could sometimes win without it. You could just fill half those final slots with ways to shut down your likely opponents if the meta stagnates and just come to a tournament pre-sideboarded.

It would take a LOT of sets added to make this incredibly consistent and flexible core not the best thing to do.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,108
Going off Hueys worlds deck 19 out of the 22 main deck creatures used energy (Servent, Cub, Refiner, Whirler, Hydra) you also had Attune, Confiscation Coup, Harnesed Lightning and Aether Hub. Aside from the lands you only had 9 total cards without the energy symbol on them main deck.
More than I remembered off the top of my head can probably cut that down to get to up to 12 slots they didn't always run the full set of whirlers, lightning and Hydras.
 
Feb 16, 2018
1,001
a larger range of decks means the energy deck can't have a perfect sideboard like it could in standard

and all the sideboarding will reduce the energy-card density of the deck. remember that attune is still a tapped land, so that would quickly become a costly include in a larger format
 

Justin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
851
Seattle, Washington
Right. And then the archetype inserted its win conditions in that last 9 slots. And it could be ANYTHING powerful and it worked. Scarab God? Sure. Phoenix? Ya. Marvel and some Ulamogs, yep. Saheeli and Guardian? Happened.

It didn't matter what colors or mana costs, you could just slot in your most powerful stuff. The shell let you play it and could sometimes win without it. You could just fill half those final slots with ways to shut down your likely opponents if the meta stagnates and just come to a tournament pre-sideboarded.

It would take a LOT of sets added to make this incredibly consistent and flexible core not the best thing to do.
What is sounds like is you are one or two cards away from completely replacing the energy package which is something more sets will help with.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,154
Suncleanser also seems like a powerful sideboard option against the energy decks. People forget about that card because it was printed after Attune/Rogue Refiner were banned.
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,641
I only played Kaladesh when I got on the early beta in Arena and they added the set eventually in closed.

I remember immediately thinking "why the fuck did they think printing a ton of Chimeric Idols was a good idea?" Granted I'm biased from running UW Control during that era but fuck that card was annoying to play against from any angle.
 

Matsukaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,430
As someone who did not play Kaladesh and who heard nothing but bad things from his friends who did, I have no great urge to see Kaladesh on Arena.

Unlike my great desire to see Innistrad 1.0 on Arena. :P
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,108
What is sounds like is you are one or two cards away from completely replacing the energy package which is something more sets will help with.
why would you replace it when you want to keep being a midrange deck? Of course you could run the explore package instead or another array of creatures to curve out but the question is whether energy won't just remain superior to most things going through standard.

Getting a cub to scale out of control is easier than a wildgrowth walker or a notion thief. It's also not like red removal gets any better than harnessed lightning for so little cost.

If you compare the Sultai Midrange deck that's the midrange deck du jour it's almost the same deck as temur energy was. Replace your explore package and elves with energy creatures including a manadork, your hostage takers/chupacabras with glorybringers, your cast downs with harnessed lightnings, your carnage tyrants if you run them with hydras, krasis/vivien/find with card advantage cards of your choice and a couple lands with Attune.
 
Last edited:

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,297
I never want to see Bomat Courier, Heart of Kiran, or Scrapheap Scounger ever again.

Fake edit: Or Torrential Gearhulk either, shit.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,960
EDIT: This was supposed to go in the Manga thread, but because i'm dumb i put it here instead. But, because its still relevent, i'm not deleting

Destroy all of Humanity. They can't be regenerated 4

RIP being Tradewind locked. I very much apprciate anyone who thinks that Statis-locking someone is Fun (as someone who's favorite card is Blood Moon).
Also, glad that they are increasing the focus on the two main protagonists relationship. Seeing how she is actually hated by all the other girls because she is "too perfect" was good, as was seeing him stand up to them for talking behind her back
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,166
EDIT: This was supposed to go in the Manga thread, but because i'm dumb i put it here instead. But, because its still relevent, i'm not deleting

Destroy all of Humanity. They can't be regenerated 4

RIP being Tradewind locked. I very much apprciate anyone who thinks that Statis-locking someone is Fun (as someone who's favorite card is Blood Moon).
Also, glad that they are increasing the focus on the two main protagonists relationship. Seeing how she is actually hated by all the other girls because she is "too perfect" was good, as was seeing him stand up to them for talking behind her back
I really need to get back to reading that. I enjoyed the pilot and first chapter.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,415
716
Could you explai nthis?
It’s an infamously awful Eminem lyric and this thread sometimes likes hip hop references in their thread titles. Given the trailer, it seems fitting.

Personally I liked my “Up from the 36 walkers!” suggestion as it’s a Wu Tang reference and great song off a seminal album. As always they’re just suggestions. I’m sure we’ll have a vote at some point.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,401
I like 'Black Hole Sun woncha come' because Soundgarden is dope and invokes what the majority of us want from the set: mass genocide of PWs.
 

darkside

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,984
So what deck do you guys consistently have the most success with in BO1?

I'm consistently grinding 7-x in event with UR Drakes running 4 Treasure Map / 4 Niv-Mizzet. It really is untap and win in a lot of matchups. Mono Red matchup sucks but not much I can do about that.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,401
As Jace lies helpless among the ruins of Ravnica's battlegrounds, after being utterly defeated by Bolas, he hears a faint but distinct, deep voice.



Jace resists the force entering his mind, but gradually gives way as the one-sided battle with the Elder Dragon took its toll. He lets his guard down after a slight lapse, giving Bolas an opening to penetrate his mind. Without a way to escape as the Immortal Sun binds Jace to this plane, he sees no way out and succumbs to the forces of darkness, becoming a slave of Bolas.

With his body partially restored, Jace sets out on the mission to bend the Multiverse to Bolas's will.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.