Magic: The Gathering |OT| Throne of Eldraine - Will and Rowan's Excellent Adventure

TAFAE

Member
Aug 27, 2018
109
Michigan
With recent trends, may I suggest:
  • Don't print any planeswalkers at 4 cmc or lower.
  • Just to reiterate, make sure the hate cards work against the things they are supposed to hate out.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,001
Played against someone with Oko again in draft and yep, still unbeatable. I managed to do 7 damage and he still lived with one loyalty.
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,486
I beat a turn 3 Oko yesterday. It required:
- Two of the 1/5 turtle that gives non-humans unblockable when attacking, so they could make each other unblockable
- Before the second turtle came online, an initial 3 creature attack where I suicided a creature to do enough damage to Oko to put him in range
- That 4G instant Overrun spell for non-humans to buff both my unblockable turtles
- Recurring that spell with that blue land to swing for lethal with turtle power and a couple other dudes who trampled over juuuust enough

It was the literal only line of play available and I got lucky to draw the cards necessary in time.

Super fun.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,967
Phew finally hit mythic with my 2nd (!) decklist heavily targeting golos field decks, the first one sucked it turns out. Agent + Quasiduplicate + Fae of Wishes to get Jace from the SB was the primary wincondition otherwise it was an elemental ramp deck.

Now I can finally stop playing this terrible standard format.
 

IceMarker

Member
Oct 26, 2017
613
United States
From what I've seen, no one is complaining about The Royal Scions being a 3 CMC PW and all... I think it's more they need to balance PWs better and stop giving them catch all effects.

Oko's 3/3 Elk ability should have at least been a 0 ability.
 

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,531
Japan
Unsanctioned sounds... weird. Super curious about the lands tho. I was just thinking about buying a couple packs of Unstable for the lands since a shop near me has em
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,904
mrpopogod asked: How excited should we be about Unsanctioned?
I’m very proud of how the new cards turned out. And it’s a lot of fun to finally get to reprint some silver bordered cards.

October 10, 2019

mgmegadog asked: Will the new cards in Unsanctioned function well in a draft format? My Un-cube needs to know!
The new cards were designed very much with Commander and Cube in mind.

October 10, 2019

jonpaulcardenas asked: I'm pretty excited for a new un Product!!! Its defiently a product for me!!! Now I am anxious to see if I can get it... fingers crossed!!!!. Did you design all 16 New cards yourself? How happy are you with the jokes in the new cards?
I did some of the design, but I worked with a lot of very talented designers. The jokes are top notch and one of the cards might be the name I’m proudest of in all silver border.

October 10, 2019

bisexuhellvevo asked: This is probably super obvious, but just to clarify, is there one Unsanctioned deck for each colour?
Yes.

October 10, 2019

heleor asked: Was Unsanctioned in response to Unstable doing well, or was it developed in parallel?
It was made after Unstable did well.

October 10, 2019

jeffsachs asked: What was your involvement in the "Mystery Booster" product?
I had very little involvement. Not zero though as you’ll see. : )

October 10, 2019
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,645
The cynic in me wonders if the B&R wasn't pushed up mostly in response to sales.

My honest problem with the recent cards dropping onto the ban list is there's nothing surprising about them. Hogaak combined with exactly the cards any person reasonably would expect it to, there was no "secret sauce" tech or surprise combo, it was a crazy by-the-numbers deck and should have been easy to test against. Urza is only slightly more oblique in the way you build around him. Golos, Fields, and Oko really are not going into unusual decks to be used in unexpected ways, they're doing exactly what you would expect them to in exactly the decks you would expect to see them in.

These aren't weird edge cases like some obscure interaction no one thought to test against or a value engine that seems unplayable on the face of it. They're decks that should have been readily apparent and easy to test against. What happened?
 

Metal Slugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
814
Minneapolis, MN
Commander makes the most money for WotC so having pushed Commander chase cards is more important than making sure Standard/Modern are "fair" for grinders. The people who play those formats will find the most broken by-the-numbers deck anyway so having to ban a pushed card within a year of it being released really isn't that big of a deal.

It's not 1998 anymore, a broken Standard isn't going to kill the game. Consistently printing boring Limited/Standard cards for the sake of "balance" will.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,049
716
Commander makes the most money for WotC so having pushed Commander chase cards is more important than making sure Standard/Modern are "fair" for grinders. The people who play those formats will find the most broken by-the-numbers deck anyway so having to ban a pushed card within a year of it being released really isn't that big of a deal.

It's not 1998 anymore, a broken Standard isn't going to kill the game. Consistently printing boring Limited/Standard cards for the sake of "balance" will.
I don’t know about this, I think it might be having an effect already.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but is BFZ still the best selling set? Up until then from OG Zendikar on, wasn’t each first set in a block the best selling set of all time? I might be off base on this, but I think I read that. If so, it could be reasoned that poor decisions and care with balance has hurt the continued growth the game saw up to that point. We went from BFZ block (which shook Modern) into Shadows block (which wasn’t immediately a problem), then into Kaladesh block where balance issues hit Standard harder than they have in a long time. And things haven’t felt like they’re on solid ground since in my opinion. I have to wonder if the player base at large feels something similar.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,216
Drafted a good GB deck, went 3-0
Then lost to turn 5 great henge
Then next game turn 6 loyalty circle

Top design
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,967
I don’t know about this, I think it might be having an effect already.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but is BFZ still the best selling set? Up until then from OG Zendikar on, wasn’t each first set in a block the best selling set of all time? I might be off base on this, but I think I read that. If so, it could be reasoned that poor decisions and care with balance has hurt the continued growth the game saw up to that point. We went from BFZ block (which shook Modern) into Shadows block (which wasn’t immediately a problem), then into Kaladesh block where balance issues hit Standard harder than they have in a long time. And things haven’t felt like they’re on solid ground since in my opinion. I have to wonder if the player base at large feels something similar.
There was confusing messaging regarding that until recently where MaRo confirmed once again that BFZ was the best selling set of all time since. Supposedly Dominaria and WAR broke the streak of fall sets being the best selling sets but don't quote me on that.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,645
Commander makes the most money for WotC so having pushed Commander chase cards is more important than making sure Standard/Modern are "fair" for grinders. The people who play those formats will find the most broken by-the-numbers deck anyway so having to ban a pushed card within a year of it being released really isn't that big of a deal.

It's not 1998 anymore, a broken Standard isn't going to kill the game. Consistently printing boring Limited/Standard cards for the sake of "balance" will.
I actually don't think "pushed for Commander" is the problem. Commander doesn't give a shit about 3 CMC walkers or piles of zombie tokens, so it's not like Fields or Oko were printed for it. Hogaak is a boring do-nothing Commander and was very obviously printed for Modern Dredge (you know, exactly where it got played). The only arguments I could really see would be Golos (probably actually a Commander plant) and maybe Urza.

Like I said, these aren't "oh wow guys we never thought this card would be used this way" situations. These aren't Brawl precon cards sneaking into Standard relevance or Commander plants in Modern Horizons shocking everyone by being actually, factually Modern-playable. Most of these cards aren't honestly even very good in Commander to begin with, it's really just Urza.
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,904

* Bonecrusher Giant's Stomp preventing damage preventing was to combat the Turbo Fog decks that were coming out of Guilds of Ravnica. Another one of those cases where the deck being fought against is long dead by the time the card comes out.
* Robber of the Rich was originally legendary, but it was taken off due to (1) wanting to fit both archer and rogue in the type line, and (2) the decision to only make story characters legendary. His attack effect was originally an adventure.
* The Garruk tribal text on Cursed Huntsman is something they will do more of going forward. The article just mentions rewarding planeswalker tribal decks, but I imagine a bit part of it is also the text saved.
* Lucky Clover was originally a green artifact, but the effect didn't make sense in green.
* Torpor Orb was originally going to be reprinted instead of Sorcerous Spyglass, but then that faerie was printed instead.
* Stonecoil Serpent originally could only be cast with one color of mana, but that was making it not see any play. Thus, strictly better Endless One (and strictly better Dreadmaw Colossus).
* The Castles were originally legendary and always came in untapped. After they decided they wanted players to have multiples, they lost legendary and sometimes came in tapped.
* They have nothing to say about Oko. Cowards.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,967
I actually don't think "pushed for Commander" is the problem. Commander doesn't give a shit about 3 CMC walkers or piles of zombie tokens, so it's not like Fields or Oko were printed for it. Hogaak is a boring do-nothing Commander and was very obviously printed for Modern Dredge (you know, exactly where it got played). The only arguments I could really see would be Golos (probably actually a Commander plant) and maybe Urza.

Like I said, these aren't "oh wow guys we never thought this card would be used this way" situations. These aren't Brawl precon cards sneaking into Standard relevance or Commander plants in Modern Horizons shocking everyone by being actually, factually Modern-playable. Most of these cards aren't honestly even very good in Commander to begin with, it's really just Urza.
Well actually, ;), field of the dead is kind of an issue in EDH imo. It's just too free to run and does too much. I've been slowly updating my decks to include it and mixing regular basics with snow basics and the new spell lands now to get to 7 different named fetchabl lands while also keeping a healthy amount of basic lands.

Once it's live it's just much harder to pressure you and you get to build up a board that will eventually pressure opponents and their PWs.



Heck even before eldraine I played a monored deck with both valakut and field of the dead. Since you could already run 4 differently named mountains there, which is now 5.
 

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,142
Limited on arena is pretty lame thanks to one fucking deck.

I see this same god damn mill deck like in half my matches and i can't beat it because the primo mill card is just too good of an early blocker and thanks to the bots every drafter has like 4 of them and always has one in the opening hand. All of my threats get removed or countered while they just sit back and mill me with a bunch of commons, then take my best card with that freakin uncommon 4 color spell.

Mill should be a nice challenge and an alternative win con. Not the best fucking limited deck.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,645
Well actually, ;), field of the dead is kind of an issue in EDH imo. It's just too free to run and does too much. I've been slowly updating my decks to include it and mixing regular basics with snow basics and the new spell lands now to get to 7 different named fetchabl lands while also keeping a healthy amount of basic lands.

Once it's live it's just much harder to pressure you and you get to build up a board that will eventually pressure opponents and their PWs.
I mean, you can run it if you want, but I've never been in a game where a zombie token (or honestly anything short of 50+ zombie tokens) actually made any real difference. I guess getting a 2/2 is optimal over not getting a 2/2, but it's not going to beat any hardcore decks you were losing to otherwise.

Like if you want a zombie engine run Undead Alchemist and Altar of Dementia or something. If you're buying up ELD cards for their EDH value you ought to be investing in Fabled Passages, those biznotches are going to shoot up once ELD has been out of print for a bit. FIeld of the Dead's probably going to be pretty cheap to amass once it's out of Standard.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,967
I mean, you can run it if you want, but I've never been in a game where a zombie token (or honestly anything short of 50+ zombie tokens) actually made any real difference. I guess getting a 2/2 is optimal over not getting a 2/2, but it's not going to beat any hardcore decks you were losing to otherwise.

Like if you want a zombie engine run Undead Alchemist and Altar of Dementia or something. If you're buying up ELD cards for their EDH value you ought to be investing in Fabled Passages, those biznotches are going to shoot up once ELD has been out of print for a bit. FIeld of the Dead's probably going to be pretty cheap to amass once it's out of Standard.
the difference is I ran 1-2 tap lands so all my lands are also 2/2s. I didn't have to occupy multiple nonland slots to create a consistent stream of creatures and any resources you spend dealing with them that isn't coming from lands is virtual card advantage for me.

Idk what hardcore decks are supposed to be but I'm not talking about cEDH, I'm done with that, but high powered interactive EDH.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,001
Limited on arena is pretty lame thanks to one fucking deck.

I see this same god damn mill deck like in half my matches and i can't beat it because the primo mill card is just too good of an early blocker and thanks to the bots every drafter has like 4 of them and always has one in the opening hand. All of my threats get removed or countered while they just sit back and mill me with a bunch of commons, then take my best card with that freakin uncommon 4 color spell.

Mill should be a nice challenge and an alternative win con. Not the best fucking limited deck.
This is why I don't play Arena. It's a farcical version of draft. A long time ago I experienced how drafting with bots would be with Cockatrice and it never simulated real drafting in a million years. They really should implement draft pods in the future.

Heck even before eldraine I played a monored deck with both valakut and field of the dead. Since you could already run 4 differently named mountains there, which is now 5.
Dual lands in mono color decks is a huge nono to me. They should update the rules on this.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,967
Dual lands in mono color decks is a huge nono to me. They should update the rules on this.
do you mean off colour fetches? I was speaking of Mountain, Snow-Covered Mountain, Madblind Mountain, Dwarven Mine which I just now realized are only 4 not 5.
Regarding off colour fetches only way to update the rules on this would make for really weird legality.
 

fulltimepanda

Member
Oct 28, 2017
265
the difference is I ran 1-2 tap lands so all my lands are also 2/2s. I didn't have to occupy multiple nonland slots to create a consistent stream of creatures and any resources you spend dealing with them that isn't coming from lands is virtual card advantage for me.

Idk what hardcore decks are supposed to be but I'm not talking about cEDH, I'm done with that, but high powered interactive EDH.
Eh, I'd agree with Imperfected here. Sure it generates you stuff but how valuable is it actually?

To get your zombie you need to have 7 differently named lands on the field and you need to hit your land drop for the turn. The value a single 2/2 zombie provides that you might get a turn... at the least you have a body on the field and at the most you have fodder for another engine? Zombie decks are slow as far as tribal decks go and the decks that care about creatures/tokens benefit much more from explosive turns rather than consistency. Not to mention the point in the game where I have 7 differently named lands on board is when I start dreading drawing and playing more land.

I don't know much about the meta in standard or modern atm but it seem much more problematic in them. From an EDH pov, it honestly seems like a card that'd come in one of the commander precons as some chaff, has a cool effect but generates limited value. If you want problematic cards in EDH, look at stuff like Smothering Tithe or Rhystic Study.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,645
I mean it's fine to include in your decks, but it's no big deal. It's not like a Smothering Tithe type "this card was built almost exclusively for Commander and belongs in every deck that can play it forever" type card, it's just a really good Standard card that can play in EDH.

I would say, as I originally implied, that it was built to combo with Scapeshift and Golos and the fact it did so (in both cases) shouldn't have surprised anyone in Play Design and should have been tested around properly.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,967
Might be I'm off base here but I would at least recommend to try jamming it into decks you'd not expect it to do much and see how it goes.

Regarding Study, Mystic Fish and Smothering Tithe I stopped running these because of the annoying "do you pay X" gameplay. Tithe I don't think is all that problematic since it's easier to deal with the treasures than it is to deal with cards drawn.

Do get annoyed by them still on a regular basis tho
 
Nov 2, 2017
325
Holy shit, in Arena, I would face 1000 Oko decks than a single Cauldron combo deck. Sitting there and waiting through the other player slowly going through his triggers is fucking torture. One game against this deck takes longer than 3 with any other.
 

Buttzerker

Powerhouse Protector
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,618
Holy shit, in Arena, I would face 1000 Oko decks than a single Cauldron combo deck. Sitting there and waiting through the other player slowly going through his triggers is fucking torture. One game against this deck takes longer than 3 with any other.
I'm fast as hell with mine but I also have way more triggers. I've had people concede when they saw Henge, Trail Wildborn Preserver all proc off a cat loop lol
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,645
They should make it so time lost on the rope is more aggressively cumulative. If you're mashing through your triggers constantly, fine, but if you're taking 2-3 seconds per trigger to pass priority you should run out of rope fast.

Y'all can just go ahead and Opt or Once Upon a Time or whatever, it isn't impressing anyone holding priority every single phase for it.
 

Poppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,745
corvallis, OR
man torbran consistently causes me to immediately die

also i 7-2'd a draft with what i thought was a garbage red green midrange creature deck but got crushed on what i thought was a pretty amazing red blue tempo/card draw deck, alas
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,001
So I was checking the MTG events coverage page and I forgot they recently changed grand prix to magic fests (even though wizards still call them grand prix for some reason.) So wizards literally have nothing to do with organizing grand prix anymore? I miss the live coverage, previews, meta data, limited insights, deck techs etc. they produced. All that information is now gone. All channel fireball does is post a short summary and tweets on their coverage page.

We live in the digital age now and the way competitive magic has regressed over the years is disappointing to say the least.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
377
So I was checking the MTG events coverage page and I forgot they recently changed grand prix to magic fests (even though wizards still call them grand prix for some reason.) So wizards literally have nothing to do with organizing grand prix anymore? I miss the live coverage, previews, meta data, limited insights, deck techs etc. they produced. All that information is now gone. All channel fireball does is post a short summary and tweets on their coverage page.

We live in the digital age now and the way competitive magic has regressed over the years is disappointing to say the least.
They are calling the convention event thing a magic fest. The tournament is still called a grand prix.