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Magic: The Gathering |OT| Throne of Eldraine - Will and Rowan's Excellent Adventure

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ZealousD

ZealousD

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
2,303
Schreckstoff said:
No Brawl as an eternal format sheds a lot of what makes commander unfun and/or removes a huge monetary barrier to compete.

My playgroup has tried a lot of things recently to curtail our out of control power level and it has helped but we've explored further options like building budget decks. The problem is you don't often get together 4 people that all follow the same house banlist or have all built budget decks, which makes for quite the power imbalance.
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Making Brawl an eternal format doesn't solve any of those problems, it just moves them to different cards. Any casual format will struggle with figuring out how powerful a deck should be. You try and do "casual standard" and you'll run into the same issue.
 
Carthago Delenda Est

Carthago Delenda Est

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
ZealousD said:
Making Brawl an eternal format doesn't solve any of those problems, it just moves them to different cards. Any casual format will struggle with figuring out how powerful a deck should be. You try and do "casual standard" and you'll run into the same issue.
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It does remove/hinder the monetary barrier which in turn allows more competitive decks. The top end price goes to $50, usually less than $20 for the very best cards. People have EDH decks with multiple $100 cards.
 
Firemind

Firemind

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Oct 25, 2017
15,543
Carthago Delenda Est said:
That's why I'm advocating it be an eternal format like EDH.
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That solves some issues but doesn't solve everything. The best cards in Standard are exactly what it says on the tin. New Standard cards could mostly replace the ones you already have, and you should get rid of your Standard cards before rotation because Brawl being an eternal format won't let them retain their value.

Gaea's Cradle is $350 because it's Gaea's Cradle.
 
Schreckstoff

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
ZealousD said:
Making Brawl an eternal format doesn't solve any of those problems, it just moves them to different cards. Any casual format will struggle with figuring out how powerful a deck should be. You try and do "casual standard" and you'll run into the same issue.
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Fabled Passage will never cost what a scalding tarn costs. For the price of a Mana Crypt you can buy like 7 mox ambers.

Not to mention cards like gaea's cradle which is one of the tamer extremely powerful RL cards that are legal in EDH
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
unknown.png


No more eldraine limited for me.
Looking forward to getting elspeth'd turn 4 every theros game :)
 
Firemind

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
Would be nice if in the future they can print commons/uncommons that can randomly hose planeswalkers (like destroying noncreature permanents instead of just artifact/enchantment) for limited balance purposes.

Losing to a t3 or t4 planeswalker when resolved is a pretty feelbad moment. There have been limited bombs before, but most bombs are expensive creatures that can be killed by most common creature removal. The ones that don't (Jitte, Wurmcoil Engine, Pack Rat) are pretty rare. Planeswalkers are in every set. Sure, creatures kill planeswalkers but most PWs have built in protection and quickly spiral out of control unless you're far ahead already.

You might say: "What about stop designing broken planeswalkers?" That solves one issue but creates another since they need to market every set and planeswalkers have become the face of magic. Making them bland hurts their wallets. So I feel like noncreature removal, creature removal that can also kill planeswalkers or burn spells that can also target planeswalkers but not players are design spaces worth exploring more.

PS. Before anyone corrects me, Murderous Rider is a rare and, yes, Scorching Dragonfire hits planeswalkers but good luck killing Oko lol
 
i hate cheaters

i hate cheaters

Member
Feb 16, 2018
2,685
innkeeper seems too strong for a 1-cost card

thought it would just be a limited bomb, but it's randomly OP in standard too

it might get weaker as the card pool grows, but it's annoying that you can't even kill it before the card draw because of how priority works
 
Piecake

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
Cauldron Familiar should be banned for the simple fact that is mind-numbingly boring to play against. As soon as someone drops a witches oven and a familiar I am very very tempted to quit just to save me the pain of that unceasing boredom (and they always have it in their opening hand)

Its bad when a deck wants to make you quit just because its just so boring to play against.
 
aidan

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,770
Piecake said:
I drafted a blue/black mill deck so i could actually stand a chance in limited, but don't really want to play it because the mirror games seem like they are going to be painful.
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U/B mill mirrors in Eldraine limited on Arena are one of the few times when 41 is the correct number of cards for a deck. What an awfully boring matchup.
 
Schreckstoff

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
Piecake said:
Cauldron Familiar should be banned for the simple fact that is mind-numbingly boring to play against. As soon as someone drops a witches oven and a familiar I am very very tempted to quit just to save me the pain of that unceasing boredom (and they always have it in their opening hand)

Its bad when a deck wants to make you quit just because its just so boring to play against.
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I think I've gone up against cauldron familiar oven combo once in over a hundred matches since the set released. It seems very not good and easy to go over the top of, which you already need to do anyway because of Golos and Field
 
Piecake

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
Schreckstoff said:
I think I've gone up against cauldron familiar oven combo once in over a hundred matches since the set released. It seems very not good and easy to go over the top of, which you already need to do anyway because of Golos and Field
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I like playing knight tribal so i have to deal with an unceasing amount of cat block - sacrifice - return. I also have tended to play more in the free play zone as you get less golos decks there. Apparently you get more boring ass cat sacrifice decks though...
 
TAFAE

TAFAE

Member
Aug 27, 2018
439
Michigan
Build the Temur Midrange/Superfriends deck that is supposed to be good at beating up on Golos+Field. Go to ladder, play 10 matches and find no Golos whatsoever. Go 3-7, one match loss due to Arena not registering my attack click with Questing Beast (and me missing that it's not attacking because of the long ass animation that persists past my main phase and into combat). Play like 3 mirror matches and mulligan to 5 in ~4 of those games, opponents never mulligan. In one memorable game, spend 4 turns looting with the Royal Scions, hoping to draw literally anything but lands or ramp creatures or other copies of the Royal Scions, unsuccessfully of course. Don't even get to ultimate the Scions, as I have drawn 7 cards worth of air and spent 4 turns doing almost nothing, so I get beat down.

The Gold Swamp is the worst it's ever been, and I don't even have the mythic WCs to try out Mardu Dino-cleave anymore.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
6,113
Every time I pick a deck besides Field to try and do something on Ladder, I immediately run into 4-5 matches of its worst matchup. Give Mono Red a spin? Here's Gruul 4 times. Gives Knights a spin? Here's removal and Rankle heavy BG Adventures.
 
Metal Slugger

Metal Slugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,424
St. Cloud, MN
Firemind said:
They're probably scams.

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Not those, actual hand-packed boxes of draft bulk with some rares/foils/promos thrown in.

For example, in Minneapolis the Dreamers Vault stores have a BCW longbox full off C/U/Tokens from recent sets with a $4-5 rare visible on the outside for $10. Or at Grey Duck Games in Maple Grove they have a BCW half box filled with the same for $5 but they put in at least one promo/buy-a-box, 3-5 rares and sometimes some really spicy stuff (I got a Goblin Guide and that Urza's Saga shroud enchantress out of them before).

Those kind of boxes. The clear mystery boxes at Target/WM are the biggest scam in MTG.

There's also a local store that has $2.5 repack boosters of completely random sets with a chance of the rate slot being something crazy like a Mox. Foil in every pack, pretty cool.
 
Bandini

Bandini

Member
Oct 25, 2017
94
cagey said:
Every time I pick a deck besides Field to try and do something on Ladder, I immediately run into 4-5 matches of its worst matchup. Give Mono Red a spin? Here's Gruul 4 times. Gives Knights a spin? Here's removal and Rankle heavy BG Adventures.
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That can be really frustrating. It seems to happen to me as well whenever I switch off my main deck. That said, if you haven't tried Gruul I recommend it. I think it's the best deck right now. Here's my current list: https://aetherhub.com/Deck/Public/173871
 
Chojin

Chojin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,625
I've joined the dark side.

Also, Broko much?

Also, why do people keep targeting my Fblthp? Is he really that much of a threat?

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Piecake

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
I also joined the dark side. Not the Oko dark side, the ghosting a game dark side. Just got really sick of playing these fucking cat oven decks that take forever. Well, this fucker can take wait to win just like I waited for his slow ass to sacrifice his cat every fucking turn.
 
onpoint

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
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Oct 26, 2017
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I always forget how much this thread dies right around a new standard release, but even moreso when standard is bad. Yikes.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
Standard rotation is usually my favorite time, but... yeah. I think this might be the first time I've felt like Standard was actively worse immediately post-rotation. I honestly didn't even think it was possible.
 
TAFAE

TAFAE

Member
Aug 27, 2018
439
Michigan
Oko certainly has that whiff of a card that will not survive its time in Standard. I wonder if WotC will think about doing errata on him, with Arena being such a big thing now and the fact that it would be easy to fix him with number tweaks. Not to mention that he's the face of a brand new set and they'd probably prefer not to ban him.

Anyway, who's ready to watch some Golos mirrors?
 
Bigkrev

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,327
The wildest part of Oko is that we actually have a good Hero's Downfall and a good Pithing Needle effect in the format, but Oko is so Fast and imprevious to everything else cause of his insane loyalty that it doesn't matter

TAFAE said:
Oko certainly has that whiff of a card that will not survive its time in Standard. I wonder if WotC will think about doing errata on him, with Arena being such a big thing now and the fact that it would be easy to fix him with number tweaks. Not to mention that he's the face of a brand new set and they'd probably prefer not to ban him.

Anyway, who's ready to watch some Golos mirrors?
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Paper is still way too big for them to do a Hearthstone-like Errata on him, like changing his starting loyalty to 3 and making his second ability a minus 1
 
onpoint

onpoint

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Oct 26, 2017
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Honestly, will a Field ban be enough? Or does Oko actually have to go as well? I have a bad feeling about this.
 
Xequalsy

Xequalsy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
386
I dunno, the optics of an Oko ban if he's still a problem when Theros releases...

Will draw comparisons to the horrible standards that were Zendikar into Innistrad and Kaladesh
 
jph139

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,385
How soon could they slot some emergency hate in? A one mana colorless "destroy target Oko," nice and simple.
 
TAFAE

TAFAE

Member
Aug 27, 2018
439
Michigan
Oko has to go but the chance that it happens on Monday is nearly zero. We haven't yet been given a showcase of how busted he is, with the only more oppressive deck not caring about what he does. My guess is, if we're lucky, the ban will be the first B&R announcement after Theros releases so they've got a shiny new Elspeth to point people to. If not, they'll drag it out another month (or maybe Theros will have actually effective planeswalker hate - not holding my breath).
 
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