Magic: The Gathering |OT| Throne of Eldraine - Will and Rowan's Excellent Adventure

[Nacho]

It's just lazy design, to cram all that stuff on a single card. And there's a lot of it these days. Look at The Questing Beast. It has so many abilities the people who actually play it forget what it does.

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I forget every time about one of the things. Either Deathtouch or can't be blocked. Actually I just remembered typing this that damage can't be blocked too I legit forgot.

And that's 4 fucking mana in a color that mana ramps so hard it might as well just start the game with 5 mana default.

 

[Poppy]

drafting 5 merfolk secretkeeper and a wildborn preserver sure feels like cheating

see i thought i heard that the bots took secretkeepers now but i dunno if that's really the case

 

[Bigkrev]

The design of "a billion things on a card" is going to get worse, not better, because the point of a lot of that stuff is to make Best of One on Arena play better.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Regarding Eldraine limited: I have to say its growing on me the more I draft it. I really misjudged how viable aggro decks were at the beginning, and the more I draft proactive decks the more I'm liking the format. I don't think it's an all-timer, but it's not pure garbage like I thought it was at first.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

Eldraine limited is fine in paper, trash ass on arena

 

[Bigkrev]

Eldraine limited is fine in paper, trash ass on arena

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I was listening to a podcast with Zvi Mowshowitz talking about his prep for the PT, and him realizing late in his testing that Arena Eldrane and real life Eldrane are actually completely different formats made me laugh, but it's true. "You draft towards archtypes and decks in paper when going against humans, but you can only draft colors on Arena, unless you are trying to make a mill deck with a bunch of late picks"

 

[Steve Winwood]

Agree with the gap between Arena Eldraine and the real format. MTGO >>> fake drafts on Arena.

The design of "a billion things on a card" is going to get worse, not better, because the point of a lot of that stuff is to make Best of One on Arena play better.

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I think they're way overreacting to the difference between bo1 and bo3, then. I mean, they've managed to create the worst Standard in history, so really they should just do the opposite of whatever they're doing.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I was listening to a podcast with Zvi Mowshowitz talking about his prep for the PT, and him realizing late in his testing that Arena Eldrane and real life Eldrane are actually completely different formats made me laugh, but it's true. "You draft towards archtypes and decks in paper when going against humans, but you can only draft colors on Arena, unless you are trying to make a mill deck with a bunch of late picks"

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There's zero good excuse for not having pod drafting in Arena at this point. It's quite frustrating.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

There's zero good excuse for not having pod drafting in Arena at this point. It's quite frustrating.

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wotc afraid that some people may rare draft and get a little more value from drafts
the horror

 

[JustinBailey]

Arena is trash in general, I've found. Again, paper magic is the absolute best way to play magic. Arena is GREAT for the game, terrible for gameplay.

 

[Bigkrev]

wotc afraid that some people may rare draft and get a little more value from drafts
the horror

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I think it's more of a "what happens if someone loses their connection, how do we handle the draft timer" type stuff, and right now they are more commited to monitization elements like the pets/battle pass/skins in development than figuring that stuff out

 

[Deleted member 2809]

I think it's more of a "what happens if someone loses their connection, how do we handle the draft timer" type stuff, and right now they are more commited to monitization elements like the pets/battle pass/skins in development than figuring that stuff out

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if somebody times out or just bails replace them with a bot, idk, give byes. They can figure it out.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I think it's more of a "what happens if someone loses their connection, how do we handle the draft timer" type stuff, and right now they are more commited to monitization elements like the pets/battle pass/skins in development than figuring that stuff out

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You know, I can't imagine it would be that hard for a bot to pick for them if they dropped.

 

[Firemind]

Regarding Eldraine limited: I have to say its growing on me the more I draft it. I really misjudged how viable aggro decks were at the beginning, and the more I draft proactive decks the more I'm liking the format. I don't think it's an all-timer, but it's not pure garbage like I thought it was at first.

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I've said this before, it's a great limited format. I ranked it below Dominaria but I might rank it above it now because drafting U/R is much more fun than drafting and playing cheap wizards in Dominaria.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

I've said this before, it's a great limited format. I ranked it below Dominaria but I might rank it above it now because drafting U/R is much more fun than drafting and playing cheap wizards in Dominaria.

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But UR isn't very good/reliable in ELD, with payoffs being unco and rare

 

[Firemind]

I said fun. I didn't say it was good. :p

 

[SigmasonicX]

https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2019/11/reviewing-war-of-the-spark-forsaken/

Yeesh, those story details don't sound good at all. I guess Greg Weisman just isn't a novelist.

Spoiler: Story details

* Dovin Baan is dead, killed by Dimir agents.
* Jace and Vraska break up again.
* Lazav (Dimir leader) and Tezzeret are working together now.
* The Gatewatch just kind of breaks up with no one caring. This part will probably be disregarded.
* Kaya takes back Liliana's Chain Veil to Niv-Mizzet as proof that she's dead, but in fact, they're going to work together to do something on Fiora.

 

[Carthago Delenda Est]

if somebody times out or just bails replace them with a bot, idk, give byes. They can figure it out.

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I'd even be fine with playing against opponents outside my pod. Just drafting with a pod would make a huge difference.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I'd even be fine with playing against opponents outside my pod. Just drafting with a pod would make a huge difference.

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100% agree! In fact, I'd prefer not to (because I don't want to have to wait for other games to finish). I just want human beings in the draft. I'll queue for a draft that's fine.

 

[aidan]

I swear I didn't write this, y'all:

Source

She's not a lesbian, guys, she's, just, like, in love with Nissa and shit.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

I swear I didn't write this, y'all:

Source

She's not a lesbian, guys, she's, just, like, in love with Nissa and shit.

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oh no

 

[Joe Molotov]

Now everything's different.

 

[Firemind]

Why can't ya'll just be normal and not write smut?

 

[Poppy]

BULLSHIT

 

[aidan]

Why can't ya'll just be normal and not write smut?

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This is from Greg Weisman's latest book.

 

[Firemind]

It reads like fanfic.

 

[Metroidvania]

That writing is atrocious, but I forget, what 'broke' them up in the first place?

Nissa go back to her genocidal/racist roots?

fake edit: Also, her mtg gamepedia wiki page says she and/or Chandra confess after Bolas bites it in WotS? Which would take place after this?

I'm confused, lol.

edit:

Apparently, the next sentence after that bit ends says ' But both of them knew deep down they were only speaking platonically.'

eesh.


Also, on a different note, if anyone wants to crack some packs, Walgreens apparently has a 40% off sale on all MtG (and pokemon) products - apparently Target has price matched in previous instances, if you bring the paper ad (or the mobile ad) to them.

I'm half-tempted to see if I can find any random Modern Horizons out there, but there's admittedly the risks of sneaky re-packs.

 

[onpoint]

The design of "a billion things on a card" is going to get worse, not better, because the point of a lot of that stuff is to make Best of One on Arena play better.

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I should just sell all my cards if this is where the game is headed

 

[Bigkrev]

Glad to have been on the right side of history, who took one look at the Diabolic Tutor in Kaladesh and said "I think I'm done with all of this, i'd play an Force of Will or another Anime TCG if I wanted this kind of crap in the game"

 

[Toxi]

https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2019/11/reviewing-war-of-the-spark-forsaken/

Yeesh, those story details don't sound good at all. I guess Greg Weisman just isn't a novelist.

Spoiler: Story details

* Dovin Baan is dead, killed by Dimir agents.
* Jace and Vraska break up again.
* Lazav (Dimir leader) and Tezzeret are working together now.
* The Gatewatch just kind of breaks up with no one caring. This part will probably be disregarded.
* Kaya takes back Liliana's Chain Veil to Niv-Mizzet as proof that she's dead, but in fact, they're going to work together to do something on Fiora.

Click to shrink...

Vraska's entire character got fucking torpedoed.

 

[Nacho]

The design of "a billion things on a card" is going to get worse, not better, because the point of a lot of that stuff is to make Best of One on Arena play better.

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Honestly, it wouldn't be as infuriating if it didn't all form around green. The meta of magic can have crazy power creep and cards can get crazy and things can still be fun, but when it's all centered around one already powerful color, it just turns the game into the same couple of decks being played because there's no alternative.

 

[Poppy]

vraska should just kill everyone

and they should cancel the teferi set and make a vraska set

 

[Firemind]

Yeah, it is pretty funny that they continue to print more and more powerful creatures and planeswalkers but counterspells and burn spells are somehow off limits. The same shitty variations of Cancel and Shock ad nauseum. Sometimes literally Shock being the best burn spell Standard has to offer.

 

[Carthago Delenda Est]

That writing is atrocious, but I forget, what 'broke' them up in the first place?

Nissa go back to her genocidal/racist roots?

fake edit: Also, her mtg gamepedia wiki page says she and/or Chandra confess after Bolas bites it in WotS? Which would take place after this?

I'm confused, lol.

edit:

Apparently, the next sentence after that bit ends says ' But both of them knew deep down they were only speaking platonically.'

eesh.


Also, on a different note, if anyone wants to crack some packs, Walgreens apparently has a 40% off sale on all MtG (and pokemon) products - apparently Target has price matched in previous instances, if you bring the paper ad (or the mobile ad) to them.

I'm half-tempted to see if I can find any random Modern Horizons out there, but there's admittedly the risks of sneaky re-packs.

Click to shrink...

My target has Modern Horizons. $4 a pack with that discount.

 

[ZealousD]

Jace had inconsistent writing between Ixalan and Dominaria.
Vraska went off the rails.
Chandra x Nissa went off the rails.
Garruk was turned into a mindless puppet for most of the Eldraine story.

I think there's a pattern here. WotC shouldn't be dropping characters with extensive histories into the laps of people who don't know these characters. These writers have to spend weeks digesting their backstories and motivations and then write whole novels in a limited amount of time. And then it seems like they can't run away from the established characters fast enough in order to spend most of their time fleshing out whatever character is new that they can work with. Like Kate Elliott had a quick and easy solution here. "What if I just turn Garruk isn't a mindless dog for most of the book so I don't actually have to write him at all? Then I can spend most of the book working on all the new characters who are complete blank slates!"

 

[Toxi]

Jace had inconsistent writing between Ixalan and Dominaria.
Vraska went off the rails.
Chandra x Nissa went off the rails.
Garruk was turned into a mindless puppet for most of the Eldraine story.

I think there's a pattern here. WotC shouldn't be dropping characters with extensive histories into the laps of people who don't know these characters. These writers have to spend weeks digesting their backstories and motivations and then write whole novels in a limited amount of time. And then it seems like they can't run away from the established characters fast enough in order to spend most of their time fleshing out whatever character is new that they can work with. Like Kate Elliott had a quick and easy solution here. "What if I just turn Garruk isn't a mindless dog for most of the book so I don't actually have to write him at all? Then I can spend most of the book working on all the new characters who are complete blank slates!"

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To be fair, with Garruk it's hard to tell the difference.

But I think you have a point. Authors like being able to build their own characters or build further upon the characters they feel a connection to. And they don't like just continuing someone else's work they feel no connection to.

 

[jph139]

I definitely don't envy Greg Weisman, who doesn't seem to have any particular interest or affection for MTG lore, being given the War of the Spark block as a writer-for-hire assignment. "Hey, here's the culmination of like a decade's worth of plot, featuring every major character we have, meeting up in one of our most storied settings. Tons of old grudges, rivalries, friendships, romances, and long-awaited meetings will be featured. Good luck! You've got like six months!"

And it's not like Magic lore is particularly centralized or easy to follow. Sprinkled across novels and comics and short stories and random cards... I hope they at least have some internal plot and character reference material for people.

 

[Frankie Williamson]

Jesus Christ, just let Allison Luhrs be in charge of the story again. It wasn't God awful then. Give the writing jobs to writers who actually care about the product. Fuck.

I also don't envy Greg Weisman, who I know is capable. I mean, Gargoyles fucking rules. But good God, the War of the Spark novel was literally one of the worst things I ever bought.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I know I said I liked Eldraine Limited but having Archon of Absoluton and Revenge of Ravens at uncommon is a fucking travesty

 

[onpoint]

You'd think with Maro's love of Marvel he'd want to unify and streamline the story situation for the MTG universe, especially going forward. But it's increasingly clear that there's less a plan an more a loose outline of plot points, details be damned. Shame, too, as Magic does have some truly unique elements that would make for interesting fiction in the right hands.

 

[Carthago Delenda Est]

You'd think with Maro's love of Marvel he'd want to unify and streamline the story situation for the MTG universe, especially going forward. But it's increasingly clear that there's less a plan an more a loose outline of plot points, details be damned. Shame, too, as Magic does have some truly unique elements that would make for interesting fiction in the right hands.

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Yup. War of the Spark through cards was fantastic outside of a few key missing moments. Whoever did that is amazing. Everything else in the last year has been literally terrible.

Garruk had potential to be an awesome villain with a lot of depth. Completely and totally squandered.

 

[ZealousD]

To be fair, with Garruk it's hard to tell the difference.

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I've only been playing the game since Ixalan, so I am just not that familiar with him as a character. People seemed excited for his return so I assumed there was more to the character than what we got.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

I know I said I liked Eldraine Limited but having Archon of Absoluton and Revenge of Ravens at uncommon is a fucking travesty

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Ravens is one of the worst designs ever for limited

 

[SigmasonicX]

https://twitter.com/michaelyichao/status/1194621572184543233?s=19

Thread from a former Magic writer about the drop in Magic writing quality.

 

[onpoint]

A summary for how I see it:

• Methodically and slowly make Nissa and Chandra a thing over the course of several years
• Decide Chandra will be the face of Magic and get her a TV show
• Look around at the climate
  • Uh oh, will we be sold in China?
  • If Blizzard and Disney won't stand up to them...
• Walk back Nissa and Chandra's relationship
  • * Scooby Doo mask rip off *
  • She was actually straight the whole time!

 

[Poppy]

i can only love dead hunks

 

[Carthago Delenda Est]

I just have so much respect for Wizards as shepherds of good storytelling.

 

[Yeef]

You'd think with Maro's love of Marvel he'd want to unify and streamline the story situation for the MTG universe, especially going forward.

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Outside of the silver-bordered sets, Rosewater has basically 0 to do with the creative.

 

[onpoint]

Outside of the silver-bordered sets, Rosewater has basically 0 to do with the creative.

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I feel like creative needs a shake up. Not necessarily Maro's involvement, but something needs to be done. This is embarrassingly awful.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Looks like the cool people in Magic Story are taking the criticism to heart. Ethan Fleischer and Alison Luhrs also "vague tweeted" about it today, apparently.