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Magic: The Gathering |OT| Throne of Eldraine - Will and Rowan's Excellent Adventure

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,900
Let me put it this way: Theros didn't give us a card called "Heliod, Lightning God King"

It took themes and character concepts from Greek mythology and made new things based on those things.

This set is giving us "literally the thing from the fairytale, but we changed the name".

It doesn't feel interconnected with itself, let alone the other, Arthurian Legend, half of the set. And it doesn't feel like Magic's take on classic fairytales, it feels like a fairytale version of that fanmade Star Ward set that one guy did.
Theros notably went above people's head with the references a lot of times and wasn't that popular IIRC.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,909
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Theros notably went above people's head with the references a lot of times and wasn't that popular IIRC.
I don't think Theros' problem was the mythology being too hidden, though I do wonder if the Greek mythology stuff is really popular enough to carry a product even if it were more direct. I feel like it just wasn't that exciting of a set that was followed up by two weaksauce expansions. That said, I feel like this set being closer to a direct analog might increase its popularity with casuals or even non-Magic folk.
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,765
Theros came upon the solution of leaving the more obscure references to rare, and in that regard, I think that worked out. Kamigawa was the "what even is this" block. Theros's problems were entirely on a card design level, and choosing not to have anything interesting storywise happen in the second set.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,562
The fairy tale side does feel oddly disconnected, yeah. With the Arthurian stuff, you can tell there's an internal history to the world. On the fairy tale side, there is no history. Everything is happening right now, and nothing happened in the past.
This is what I'm missing. This stuff is so on the nose that I'm looking for any kind of diegetic or metatextual explanation for why this stuff is happening in Eldraine, for why all the magic here is whimsical.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,900
Theros came upon the solution of leaving the more obscure references to rare, and in that regard, I think that worked out. Kamigawa was the "what even is this" block. Theros's problems were entirely on a card design level, and choosing not to have anything interesting storywise happen in the second set.
I wouldn't call it working out when there's almost no legendaries from Theros people remember but part of that is surely most of them being trash.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,562
for most of these stories, there isn't actually a way to convey the meaning of the fairy tale AND put an original spin on it AND keep the cards simple

the reason innistrad worked well for these kinds of designs was because they got to choose both halves (theme & mechanics), so they could be flexible with either part to make the whole card work

here they're stuck with really complicated themes and can only add 3 mechanics to magic's base rules to convey them. you're not going to get more than 5-10% of the fairy tale across in a card, and it's hard to satisfy 100% of people that way

i think they could have gotten the camelot stuff done right if they had an entire set for it. my main gripe with this set is that it's spread too thin across too much different stuff. it's a good approach for a supplemental product, but i'd prefer a deeper dive for the standard expansions

but at the end of the day, as long as the cards play well i won't really care
Here's what I think I'm missing: why are there so many one-offs in Eldraine? All the fairy tale stuff doesn't feel like worldbuilding, it just feels like weird stuff that happens to be occurring. The full set review could prove me wrong, but I don't get a sense that these fairy tale tropes are pointing at anything consistent underlying them.
 
Opportunistic Dragon
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,765
This is what I'm missing. This stuff is so on the nose that I'm looking for any kind of diegetic or metatextual explanation for why this stuff is happening in Eldraine, for why all the magic here is whimsical.
Ah, that's what you meant earlier.
I would like to know what, say, Rowan thinks of all these fairy tale events.

I wouldn't call it working out when there's almost no legendaries from Theros people remember but part of that is surely most of them being trash.
The gods are pretty popular.



Neat design, and a cool way for red to get white "exile until CARDNAME leaves the battlefield" effects.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,805
Control Magic/Steal Artifact is too much to be in red's wheel huh?

Also it's pretty funny that literally every other colour has big hasty creatures but the dragon doesn't lmao
 

Koz

Member
Sep 5, 2018
211
I think the dragon is best for decks that have lots of sacrifice outlets, otherwise it's a pretty tenuous removal being held by a 3 toughness creature.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,962
sure, or I'm clarifying what I meant. I'm talking about the triads of fate, the king macars, the RW pair whose name I can't even recall or know what they are referencing.
I mean isn't this true of basically any set? Once you remove all the major legendary characters, people forget the minor ones. You think people are going to remember Lannery Storm or Kopala from Ixalan?
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,900
there are unmemorable cards from every set, though. so if that's what you originally meant it's not very illuminating imo.
There are unmemorable cards in every set but a set that's drawing on the likes of Herakles, Orpheus, Leonidas, Achilles, Pandora, Helena,... for legends shouldn't have troubles making memorable ones beyond what the gods ended up being
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,805
Dragons that only hoard tend to pack on pounds.
I mean, it's not like they're consistent in how they design dragons.



"I tame lightning in my spare time."

R&D: Let's not give it haste but give it firebreathing instead. Oh and it has echo because fuck you.



"I'm so fast I can make everyone attack again."

R&D: Give me artwork that has the most pedestrian looking dragon that looks bored out of its mind.
 

Alternade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
318
Have seen any cheap food producing creatures or reusable spell? I see lots of ways to use food but not too many ways to make it
 

PsionBolt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
789
I've been away from Magic for a while, and this probably sounds extremely silly, but my first reaction to all the spoilers in this thread isn't about the uninspired flavour (though that's true too) -- the thing that stands out as weirdest to me are the changes to templating/rules implementation since I've left. It feels so off, somehow... Influenced by digital, maybe? I dunno. But weird. Tangentially, I can't get behind how darn much text nigh-on every card has -- and I can't help but feel like those things are related, like they're now more okay fuzzing over some bits they used to spell out explicitly because they're focused on saving some space in the text box.

I guess it's been a trend since they changed mana generation to "add {M}." and ditched the Planeswalker bandaid rule in favour of "any target" templating. (It still bugs me that that's an outright lie. You can't target a card in a graveyard, for example, even though that is a legitimate thing to target on other cards that say so. Magic rules text shouldn't lie to you to make things simpler! That's what reminder text is for!)
So then, maybe they did this in other recent sets too, but now this set introduces two subtypes with rules meaning, Adventure and Food. That like, never happened before! Pretty much the only exceptions I can think of are the basic lands. It just feels so bizarre to me that the effect of those comes from the type, and not actual text; It's like if instead of making Changeling an ability, they tied it to the Shapeshifter creature type and just put it as reminder text on commons, or if they had never made Devoid, and just tied colour identity to the card frame instead. that's just not how they used to do things, but I can totally see those things happening now.

I know basically no one else even considers this stuff. I just felt like ranting for a bit.

On the plus side though, and it's a big plus: Adamant, now that's my jam. A clear, simple ability word that takes a no-nonsense effect and embiggens it under certain conditions? That's the kind of Magic I know and love.
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,765


Wizards is apologizing for previewing Trapped in the Tower on 9/11 and removed it from their preview article today.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,580
I have to imagine that it’s a cost reduction instead of making it totally free thanks exclusively to Hammer Time being in Standard.
 

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,040
I have to imagine that it’s a cost reduction instead of making it totally free thanks exclusively to Hammer Time being in Standard.
T1: Sigarda's Aid
T2: Fervent Champion + Colossus Hammer

Fun times.

Obviously not in Standard and probably too fragile in Modern, but sure to annoy your friends around the kitchen table.
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,765
For those not aware, in the past, World Championship winners (or whatever it was back then) used to design a single card and it would be included in a future set with their face on the art. The last one of these was Snapcaster Mage in Innistrad, I believe. They brought this program back, but now the champion just chooses an existing card for their face to be on.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,962
So then, maybe they did this in other recent sets too, but now this set introduces two subtypes with rules meaning, Adventure and Food. That like, never happened before!
Auras, Equipment, and Vehicles are all common subtypes with rules meanings. Food is pretty much the same thing as Clues.