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Oct 25, 2017
3,686
Seb McKinnon art is cool but it does tend to look very similar to me (e.g. bowed heads) so I'm glad it's only on a few cards. Otherwise it would lose its unique appeal.
 

Yeef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,439
New York
If the format's slow, Ashiok will be better in limited than it looks at first glance. It mills 20 cards over 4 turns, which is a ton.
 

Deleted member 13560

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
3,087
Yeah... I might have to make room for The Elderspell in my planeswalker deck. Pump a planeswalker by sacrificing yours and other players' to it.

Exactly how The Elderspell works in the story. The flavor is spot on.
 
Huatli's Raptor; Ashiok's Skulker; Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God; God-Eternal Oketra; Sarkhan the Masterless; Spark Reaper; Jace, Arcane Strategist; Jace's Ruse; Jace's Projection; Guildpact Informant
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,499
t015r0ezyds21.jpg


Huatli's Raptor
Creature - Dinosaur
Vigilance
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, proliferate.

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God-Eternal Oketra
Double Strike
Whenever you cast a creature spell create a 4/4 zombie warrior token with vigilance
And the usual god thing that goes back three from the top

image0.jpg


Sarkhan
Whenever a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control, each dragon you control deals 1 damage to that creature.
+1: All your planeswalkers become 4/4 flying dragons until end of turn
-3: Create a 4/4 dragon token with flying

D4NaTcdWkAAv99a.png:large


PLANESWALKER DECK cards
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Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,463
That Nicol Bolas Dragon God art is pretty.


Is it just me or is Amass way overvalued when it comes to casting cost compared to proliferate? Proliferate just seems to be across the board cheaper to cast than amass and has way more utility.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,957
716
Amass sucks and likely does because they changed it late in development due to power concerns with going wide.
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,499
MaRo's article explains the previous army mechanic, skirmish, and more

Skirmish sounds pretty wild. The idea is that it would create a small game board where you could "advance" your position every time you dealt combat damage to a player, cast another skirmish spell, or did a third thing. When you fully advanced, you got a reward. This would work like monarch, in that much of the rules text would be on this separate game piece instead of the skirmish spells. They also experimented with you getting different skirmish boards, like contraptions in Unstable.

After that, they went with the amass variant that created 1/1 tokens that had to attack and block together. The problem was how anthems and other group boosting effects became too strong, which led to the current form that only creates one Army. This was all done in vision design, so amass in its current form was in Set Design from the start.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,957
716
Hm so not a late change but it's definitely replacement. Was def supposed to be better.
 

ThLunarian

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,547
Is it just me or is Amass way overvalued when it comes to casting cost compared to proliferate? Proliferate just seems to be across the board cheaper to cast than amass and has way more utility.
Amass is good for limited but probably way too slow and durdly for constructed

Seems like you guys are evaluating it based on having a deck full of Amass cards. That's not the way to use them.

Amass is at maximum value when it's creating a token. And many of the cards are underpriced when you use it for that.

To use Amass to full effect you need to only have 1 or 2 cards with it in your deck. When you do, it's great value.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,463
Seems like you guys are evaluating it based on having a deck full of Amass cards. That's not the way to use them.

Amass is at maximum value when it's creating a token. And many of the cards are underpriced when you use it for that.

To use Amass to full effect you need to only have 1 or 2 cards with it in your deck. When you do, it's great value.


Even then I'd rather have proliferate pretty much any day.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,957
716
Seems like you guys are evaluating it based on having a deck full of Amass cards. That's not the way to use them.

Amass is at maximum value when it's creating a token. And many of the cards are underpriced when you use it for that.

To use Amass to full effect you need to only have 1 or 2 cards with it in your deck. When you do, it's great value.
I personally want it to work in my Modern Polymorph deck. I just don't think any of the cards it's attached to right now are very exciting.
 

ThLunarian

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,547
Even then I'd rather have proliferate pretty much any day.

Proliferate is a symbiotic mechanic. It doesn't do anything by itself and relies on having other cards, so its effect is highly variable. If you have no counters on the board then you're sad to draw a Proliferate card.

Something like Enter the God-Eternals, or Commence the Endgame, are just straight value all by themselves, especially if you don't have a token out when you cast them (but they're still not horrible if you do have a token).
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,499
You play amass and proliferate in Limited. Amass guarantees there's a creature with +1/+1 counters in your deck.



Artist confirms that the guy getting ganked in The Elderspell isn't Ral. Or possibly, it is Ral but they changed their minds too late to change the art.
 

Chronos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,204
D4MzSU4WAAMA20G.png

This is a weird design for Uncommon- It's clearly a constructed sideboard card (and while it's a powerful effect, I'm not sure it's worth 3 mana and the risks of being a planeswalker). Seems like a huge limited trap as well unless there are more mill cards in the set at common

Definitely a staple sideboard card in most formats. Could be interesting in Modern/Legacy and turning all Fetches into dead cards.

Imagine T1 Dark Ritual then Ashiok. Good luck opponent.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
Amass will mostly be a limited mechanic and that's fine. I don't think anybody will be making an Amass deck in constructed but some Amass cards like Enter the God-Eternals will see play just because the value is there.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
You play amass and proliferate in Limited. Amass guarantees there's a creature with +1/+1 counters in your deck.

Agreed. Proliferate is in Bant and Amass is is Grixis so the fact that proliferate interacts with Amass will be very important if you are in blue or crossing colors. You don't want to just run up loyalty counters when you proliferate because you can't guarantee youll even have one planeswalker on the board at a time. You need creatures with counters on them.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
Something like Enter the God-Eternals, or Commence the Endgame, are just straight value all by themselves, especially if you don't have a token out when you cast them (but they're still not horrible if you do have a token).
Endgame is pretty bad in limited, still. Six mana is a lot for an Inspiration, even if it creates a 4/4.
Definitely a staple sideboard card in most formats. Could be interesting in Modern/Legacy and turning all Fetches into dead cards.

Imagine T1 Dark Ritual then Ashiok. Good luck opponent.
Pox lives!
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
The Elderspell probably isn't that much of an issue for EDH superfriends. It's a dead card too often to be worth running unless you're doing it specifically to hose the guy you absolutely know is playing superfriends, and there's plenty of one-shot hosers for decks like that out there that don't stop people from playing the decks in question.

(Hell, the mass proliferation of boardwipes doesn't even stop people from running go-wide tokens decks, and boardwipes are something you know everyone at the table is likely to have, unlike the Elderspell.)
 

Takuhi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,307
So was there ever a reason given why Sarkhan went from Temur to straight red? Seems weird to me.

AFAIK, he was only ever Temur because for a while there Wizards had a policy of making extra planeswalkers (he was the sixth in the block, and each block was only was supposed to have five) three-color so they wouldn't break Standard. Same thing that happened to Tamiyo.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,109
AFAIK, he was only ever Temur because for a while there Wizards had a policy of making extra planeswalkers (he was the sixth in the block, and each block was only was supposed to have five) three-color so they wouldn't break Standard. Same thing that happened to Tamiyo.

Sarkhan had story backing for becoming Temur. Sarkhan is mono red in this set because they needed walkers to fill slots and didn't do any 3 color ones besides Bolas.
 

Steve Winwood

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,589
Endgame is pretty bad in limited, still. Six mana is a lot for an Inspiration, even if it creates a 4/4.

Dunno, think it's likely to be excellent. Phyrexian Gargantua has been great whenever it's been printed. And this card, given that it's instant-speed, plays with amass/proliferate stuff, has upside to be bigger, doesn't lose life etc. is substantially better.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
Weight of Memory wasn't that great and Dominaria was a slow ass limited format. I mean, it's playable, but probably worse than most PWs that can generate card advantage.
 

Steve Winwood

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,589
If your deck is half 2/2s and half lands, it is not good, agreed.

As compared to Weight of Memory, it replaces "draw a card" with "pay one more mana, add 4/4 in P/T to the board" and tacks on instant speed. The two cards aren't similar in power level. With respect to opinions and the unknown limited meta, I think this type of body/effect combo is pretty much always great.
 

Serule

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,766
Is there any good reason for Soul Diviner to not just read "Remove a counter from a permanent you control?" Seems really wordy to just exclude enchantments.
 
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