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Wulfric

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Oct 25, 2017
5,963
Judges confirmed on Reddit that, if they wanted to, it would be extremely easy to mark someone's cards intentionally. While two judges check the deck, only one actually goes and picks it up and there are many opportunities to step aside and do the deed. Now a judge obviously wouldn't do that for no reason, but this is a high-level competition with a lot of money on the line. It's possible another team bribed a judge to mark the cards.

I'm not saying I believe he's innocent, to be clear. I've got no idea. We probably will never have any idea. But it isn't completely outrageous.

That would be a worse scenario than Yuuya actually cheating. More drama than an episode of Drag Race.
 

Poppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,268
richmond, va
dunno if he's innocent, but i refuse to believe the cards (well, sleeves) weren't marked on purpose, and without any other evidence i can't see it falling on anyone other than yuuya

if a judge did do it then that would be pretty delicious drama having to comb through every event that potentially corrupt judges were part of
 

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,769
We spend a lot of time making excuses for people because we like their public persona. Twist yourselves into pretzels trying to come up with a story about Yuuya being framed all you want, but by far the most likely explanation is that he cheated and got caught. If he didn't mark his cards, it'll come out in court when he sues WotC.
 

Yeef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,439
New York
Maybe the cards marked themselves. If that's the case, then we have a bigger problem on our hands.

In all seriousness though, he probably did it, but it seems like such an strange set of circumstances. He'd just changed the sleeves the round before, had already made the Top 8 and the markings are very obvious, even to a layman. I can see why, given all that, people might think something is up. My understanding is that he'd been deck-checked several times already. It's possible he thought that, because of that, he didn't need to worry about any more deck checks.

I honestly don't understand why paper tournaments for standard is even a thing anymore when they have Arena, which is infinitely more watchable, and not prone to cheating
This tournament was Modern which isn't on Arena. Even so, there's a lot of technical and logistic reasons why Standard tournaments (especially non-invite ones) couldn't realistically be done on Arena.
 

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
... Yikes.

If possible, I think digital tournaments would be better/safer, but I don't think Wotc is ready yet for that. That would require a dedicated infrastructure and changes to Arena. They may be also pondering if it would be the right choice for their brand, since the physical cards co-exist. I personaly think that Arena will only get bigger with time.

As for the potential corrupt judges... That's a very serious accusation that is almost impossible to prove. If we discover that, somehow, this is true, this would open one gigantic can of worms which could lead to the death of physical tournaments.

It seems there was ample evidence of Yuuga's cheating, considering they seemed to have watched videos and nuked him out of competition.
 
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Wulfric

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
I honestly don't understand why paper tournaments for standard is even a thing anymore when they have Arena, which is infinitely more watchable, and not prone to cheating

This could not work for a tournament with more than a handful of players. They would need to transport dozens of computers, monitors, and set it all up on the weekend of the event. Space would be an issue on combo Grand Prix + Mythic Championship weekends.

Top 8s could theoretically work on PC.
 

Deleted member 29293

User requested account closure
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Nov 1, 2017
1,084
Judges confirmed on Reddit that, if they wanted to, it would be extremely easy to mark someone's cards intentionally. While two judges check the deck, only one actually goes and picks it up and there are many opportunities to step aside and do the deed. Now a judge obviously wouldn't do that for no reason, but this is a high-level competition with a lot of money on the line. It's possible another team bribed a judge to mark the cards.

I'm not saying I believe he's innocent, to be clear. I've got no idea. We probably will never have any idea. But it isn't completely outrageous.
That's absurd, lets not start with this nonsense.

Wotc specifically mentioned they reviewed the recordings of his matches, to me that sounds like they found some fishy gameplay as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,771
That's absurd, lets not start with this nonsense.

Wotc specifically mentioned they reviewed the recordings of his matches, to me that sounds like they found some fishy gameplay as well.

It's more likely that they were looking for unconscious tics. Does he have a documented habit of treating his Tron lands different when in play, etc...
 

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,769
This could not work for a tournament with more than a handful of players. They would need to transport dozens of computers, monitors, and set it all up on the weekend of the event. Space would be an issue on combo Grand Prix + Mythic Championship weekends.

Top 8s could theoretically work on PC.

WotC has already confirmed that MC3 is going to be Arena-based.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
Again, mostly playing devil's advocate because innocent until proven guilty and all that.

In all seriousness though, he probably did it, but it seems like such an strange set of circumstances. He'd just changed the sleeves the round before, had already made the Top 8 and the markings are very obvious, even to a layman. I can see why, given all that, people might think something is up. My understanding is that he'd been deck-checked several times already. It's possible he thought that, because of that, he didn't need to worry about any more deck checks.

That's actually the most credible reason why he didn't do it himself. He already qualified for top 8, and there is a mandatory deck check at top 8. So he did know, with 100% certainty, that he'd need to worry about another deck check even though he'd just had one before the penultimate round. Essentially, the allegation is that he went out of his way to mark cards for two matches when he only needed to win one and then would need to un-mark them. It doesn't make a ton of sense.

Occam's Razor says he cheated, so let's leave it at that.

We probably shouldn't judge guilt based on Occam's Razor.

That's absurd, lets not start with this nonsense.

Wotc specifically mentioned they reviewed the recordings of his matches, to me that sounds like they found some fishy gameplay as well.

They said they reviewed gameplay. They didn't say what conclusions they drew based upon the footage. Could have been nothing. The idea that he was sabotaged is unlikely, but it's far from absurd. With enough money on the line, it's even believable. Again, not saying it happened in this way by any stretch -- only that it realistically could have.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
6,113
He's been determined guilty, though, by the relevant body that matters here. He doesn't have a presumption of innocence after an internal investigation determines wrongdoing.

He has a presumption of guilt.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,913
716
I believe WotC doesn't make these decisions lightly. I am willing to believe they did their due dilligence to reach the conclusion of a 30 month ban. I do wish they were more transparent about the process.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,301
Wizard's does great business in Japan, and Cygames is the biggest "real" eSports team sponsering Magic the Gathering players, and Yuya is their top guy. They are going to be looking for ANY excuse to not ban him- and the fact that they not only gave him a 2.5 year ban, but removed him from the Hall of Fame- this is some beyond a shadow of a doubt level confidence they have that he cheated.
 

Steve Winwood

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,589
Obviously it's much more likely than not he's guilty and all that.
I believe WotC doesn't make these decisions lightly. I am willing to believe they did their due dilligence to reach the conclusion of a 30 month ban. I do wish they were more transparent about the process.
One's mileage may vary, but I think Wizards has generally not shown great process in these decisions in the past. I think they tend to be governed much more by what's defensible and how the public will receive things than some abstract notion of fairness.
Wizard's does great business in Japan, and Cygames is the biggest "real" eSports team sponsering Magic the Gathering players, and Yuya is their top guy. They are going to be looking for ANY excuse to not ban him- and the fact that they not only gave him a 2.5 year ban, but removed him from the Hall of Fame- this is some beyond a shadow of a doubt level confidence they have that he cheated.
I think they're painted into a corner absent proactive evidence that he wasn't the one marking them. If they don't ban him, it calls into question the legitimacy of other bans and of judges in general. They can always fall back on "you're responsible for the deck you present."

That said, I'd be interested to hear what they found from reviewing footage of his matches instead of just a vague allusion to the process. It's possible they found specific evidence and it's also possible that, if they had found specific evidence, they would have mentioned it instead of mentioning that "they watched footage" and hoping people draw their own implications.
 

voOsh

Member
Apr 5, 2018
1,665
It's also only going to be 52 people.

Damn I like watching Arena tournaments but 52 people?? That's a travesty. Winning that tournament is not going to be nearly as epic or impressive as winning a 2000-person Grand Prix or a 400-person Pro Tour. At the very least it should not be called a Mythic Championship.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
Damn I like watching Arena tournaments but 52 people?? That's a travesty. Winning that tournament is not going to be nearly as epic or impressive as winning a 2000-person Grand Prix or a 400-person Pro Tour. At the very least it should not be called a Mythic Championship.

A Mythic Championship is not the main tournament at a GP anyway. I do agree it's not very mythic, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see how it goes.
 

Bandini

Member
Oct 25, 2017
94
After seeing the pictures of Watanabe's sleeves, there's no way he's innocent. How long has he been getting away with it?
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,606
what's weird about the arena MC is that 32 of the participants are made up by the mpl since they auto queue for it. Which imo makes for a bad storyline.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,694
Having the pro league thing be prerecorded makes all the other content the pros are pumping out a bit awkward. The first time someone leaks results by accident will be funny
 

Cade

Member
Oct 26, 2017
134
Nowheresville, MT
Happy that 5k gold draft for WAR is finally on MTGA, even if it's buried hard in the Extra Modes sidebar. 2-0 right now with Selesnya proliferate but I don't think the deck is that strong. We'll see..
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,771
I'm on my second draft. My first was 3-3 with Selesnya and zero bombs. I'm 2-0 in my second - four color green. I dealt 24 non-combat damage to win my second game with Vampire Opportunist and Living Twister.
 

Neverfade

Member
Oct 25, 2017
713
EDH-related question:

Can someone explain to me the benefits of running (for lack of better term) half-color-identity fetch lands in their decks (i.e. a Scalding tarn in Boros)? I can see maybe a little benefit if you're running 3 or 4 color, but wouldn't just fitting your deck with a regiment of check/shock/bond lands be more beneficial?

In summation; ELI5 when or when to not use fetch outside of identity.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
EDH-related question:

Can someone explain to me the benefits of running (for lack of better term) half-color-identity fetch lands in their decks (i.e. a Scalding tarn in Boros)? I can see maybe a little benefit if you're running 3 or 4 color, but wouldn't just fitting your deck with a regiment of check/shock/bond lands be more beneficial?

In summation; ELI5 when or when to not use fetch outside of identity.

Some decks can use lands in their graveyard (eg Crucible of Worlds). And it can be like running another copy of one of your shock lands or dual lands.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
EDH-related question:

Can someone explain to me the benefits of running (for lack of better term) half-color-identity fetch lands in their decks (i.e. a Scalding tarn in Boros)? I can see maybe a little benefit if you're running 3 or 4 color, but wouldn't just fitting your deck with a regiment of check/shock/bond lands be more beneficial?

In summation; ELI5 when or when to not use fetch outside of identity.

They're effectively dual color lands as they'll find your shocks and such. I only have two-color EDH decks and I usually run the three or four allied fetches. Enemies are too expensive and I only have them in two decks.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,606
there's delve, crucible, azcanta, landfall, titania,... so many things that care about cards in the GY or land synergies and such. For 2 colour decks I rarely run the full 7 fetches however as I can quickly run out of lands to pull.
 

Twinguistics

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
478
Attended an official mtg open day yesterday and got a free basic m19 rg deck and a sweet promo card. Also got taught how to play even though I knew anyway I've just never really played much paper magic.

Gotta say, it's great in person.
 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,966
Man, new Teferi is more of a pest for my Feather deck than I initially realized. Obviously shuts down combat trickery and the ability to use stuff on the opponent's turn for scry/draw... but hadn't thought about how he just entirely shuts down the Arcanists, too. Teferi will just forever annoy me in all forms, huh? (Honestly, this one is fine as a card, just more of a pain than I thought against my current favorite deck.)
 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,966
Oof, Card Kingdom has yet to get any stock for the Japanese planeswalkers (still waiting on that), but Amano Liliana already went up from $100 to $130. Yeeeeeeah, that's more than a little too rich for my blood, haha.

(Will probably still grab at least a few others, though.)
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,913
716
Re: Game of Thrones and War of the Spark ending thoughts, spoilerish if you aren't caught up on either.

If you told me these stories would come to their conclusions at roughly the same time back in 2012, and that in the end I would be better satisfied by the Magic story, I would have called you mad.

For all the shit we give WotC about their stories for whatever reasons, and you all know I have, at least their characters generally hold to their natures and development so their actions make sense.

The story leading up to and including War has its shortcomings, but big character moments like Lili trying to face turn and Gideon taking the hit make total and complete narrative sense. These moments felt earned.

I definitely have complained a lot about stuff in the past, so I felt like it made sense to also praise when it was due. I want to give WotC credit and state how much that's appreciated especially when I see how wrong it could go like it did with Dany's big moment in last night's GoT jam.
 

voOsh

Member
Apr 5, 2018
1,665
Savjz and Jessica Estephan added to MPL to replace Yuuya and GerryT who resigned today citing WotC's lack of transparency and unwillingness to listen to feedback. https://www.mtgesports.com/news/mpl-adds-janne-savjz-mikkonen-and-jessica-estephan

While I appreciate WotC's attempt to increase diversity within Magic, I think this decision further clouds the already nebulous concept of the MPL and what exactly it's role in Magic is. Is it actually to showcase top level play or is it purely promotional? In any case I think it's a shame that Eli Loveman, the winner of MCII and a longtime devotee of the game, was overlooked for a spot. Judging by his retweets on twitter he is also upset:

VrMvgAc.png
 

Wulfric

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
Savjz and Jessica Estephan added to MPL to replace Yuuya and GerryT who resigned today citing WotC's lack of transparency and unwillingness to listen to feedback. https://www.mtgesports.com/news/mpl-adds-janne-savjz-mikkonen-and-jessica-estephan

While I appreciate WotC's attempt to increase diversity within Magic, I think this decision further clouds the already nebulous concept of the MPL and what exactly it's role in Magic is. Is it actually to showcase top level play or is it purely promotional? In any case I think it's a shame that Eli Loveman, the winner of MCII and a longtime devotee of the game, was overlooked for a spot. Judging by his retweets on twitter he is also upset:

Spikes must be livid. It's not even worth playing compoteively at the store level/GP level if this is how they choose their competitors for the league.

---

I scanned the Liliana Buy-A-Box poster at high resolution (1200 DPI). Feel free to print out the smaller file at OfficeMax or whatever:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UQQ8q9QLxHejpPwHHVt0TsSDGwukJf67?usp=sharing

I just inquired into official prints, so we'll see if those are being planned.

7AV4yXY.jpg


Also, Narset playmats on the way.

 
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Deleted member 13560

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,087
I'm ready for some Modern Horizon news. I get more excited when it comes to these specialty sets. Only a few more days to go until the leaks start pouring in. I'm kind of excited to see what the new Planeswalker they hinted towards and if it will be a preview to the next plane we are visiting... Or it could just be the unluckiest planeswalker from the 2017 Commander set.

 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,611
Australia
Finally got my Japanese boosters. Only alternate art walker I got was Tamiyo, which is a nice looking one at least.

I joked about getting a regular art Liliana, instead I opened a regular art Bolas instead lmao
 

Ashilyn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
419
Words can't express how badly I want one of those Amano Lilianas. Between this and the Modern Horizons Serra, The Benevolent planeswalker card, I haven't wanted a Magic card so fucking bad in almost two decades.

Hopefully I'll be hoping into physical War of the Spark soon. I've been playing the hell out of it on Arena with a Green/Black Amass/Proliferate deck, but my work sold out of War of The Spark stuff before I could get paid, so I'm waiting until we get more and I can nab it with my discount.
 

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
New Zealand
Sold my Liliana sleeves and poster on eBay for $75... people be crazy. Seeing the art up close kinda made me like it less. I like Amano but it's not my favourite of his.
JP packs sure have spiked in price tho, even here in Japan. Usually a pack is 280 yen, but JP ones are 450. Crazy for a standard set
 

Wulfric

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
Sold my Liliana sleeves and poster on eBay for $75... people be crazy. Seeing the art up close kinda made me like it less. I like Amano but it's not my favourite of his.
JP packs sure have spiked in price tho, even here in Japan. Usually a pack is 280 yen, but JP ones are 450. Crazy for a standard set

I guess $75 was mostly for the sleeves huh?

I had the bright idea to buy the posters in bulk, but so did 20 other sellers on eBay. By itself it's only selling for $15-20.
 
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