Magic: the Gathering |OT| War of the Spark - Enter the Bo-Las (36 Planeswalkers)

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Oct 25, 2017
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Unsettled Mariner is interesting. Could go into Humans or Slivers (can’t imagine Merfolk want to add another color). Curious to see if they’ll print any more powerful changelings like that.
 

Firemind

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Oct 25, 2017
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U/W Merfolk exists.

Also I don't mean to brag but this is getting kind of insane.



Some of these decks don't even have any power! I wish I had this luck at Sealed GPs.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,254
Edit: Beat me by seconds above, so I'll just leave this one.



Here's a list of cards that share a name with the name of a set, courtesy of Reddit:
  • Apocalypse
  • Conflux
  • Conspiracy
  • Future Sight
  • Hour of Devastation
  • Onslaught
  • Planar Chaos
  • Prophecy
  • Time Spiral
  • Torment
  • Weatherlight
  • Morningtide
  • Mirrodin Beseiged
From that list, Conflux and Hour of Devastation appeared in the same set as their name.
 
MH1 - Mind Rake; Smiting Helix

Bigkrev

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Oct 25, 2017
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1.) I would have guessed that "Mind Rake" was used already
2.) This is a design that they would never print in a normal set nowadays but totally could have been a common in the 2000s
3.) Overall, a really cool skill tester/fun design


Very illustrative of the fact that this effect is either B or RW, depending on how you name/flavor it
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,254
Any chance of Leovold being in the set? Or has he been number-crunched out?
He's out.

For gold cards, we have 2 more spaces. One starts with R and the other is R-T. There could be a third gold card, but it'd have to start with "Aa" through "Abo" and that seems very limited.

I don't know how many more rares/mythics are left.

I think the most interesting thing not crunched out is Cabal Coffers. Or, for EDH, Grim Tutor.
 

Bigkrev

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Oct 25, 2017
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Marit Lage's Slumber is a cool design, even if it makes zero flavor sense

Also, "Target Opponent loses the game" is going to be used in the place where "you win the game" used to be used, due to EDH
 

ZealousD

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Smiting Helix is interesting as a teaching tool.

It's also a bad card. Like a four Mana sorcery speed lightning helix MIGHT be playable in this limited format but you're highly unlikely to flash it back so that's all it ever will be. I don't think there are any (good or halfway decent) red/white self Mill decks that can put this into the graveyard for free.
 

Blooddimond

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Oct 25, 2017
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Smiting Helix is interesting as a teaching tool.

It's also a bad card. Like a four Mana sorcery speed lightning helix MIGHT be playable in this limited format but you're highly unlikely to flash it back so that's all it ever will be. I don't think there are any (good or halfway decent) red/white self Mill decks that can put this into the graveyard for free.
Mardu Pyromancer?
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
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Smiting Helix is interesting as a teaching tool.

It's also a bad card. Like a four Mana sorcery speed lightning helix MIGHT be playable in this limited format but you're highly unlikely to flash it back so that's all it ever will be. I don't think there are any (good or halfway decent) red/white self Mill decks that can put this into the graveyard for free.
Double Lightning Helix is not bad, especially not in limited. The flashback is a bonus on an already playable spell.
 

Bigkrev

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Oct 25, 2017
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I believe they once bumped Urza's Rage up to Mythic for the purpose of a duel deck
Now, it's an uncommon, and one they could probably do in a standard set (like Fight with Fire)
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
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This set has a "Poochie" problem with the new cards. Reprints being de-emphasized so that the cards R&D created would be the focus in the FIRST EVER SET TO BRING CARDS TO MODERN OUTSIDE OF STANDARD is something that screams "creative ownership ego at work", where the new shinies your team has invested in creating are valued above the reliable old standbys you didn't have a role in.
 

ZealousD

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I don't like the card in Mardu Pyromancer. It costs too much to hard cast it for Modern and discarding a flashback spell is only a thing that the deck does sometimes, it's not the primary plan. I think the card is powerful only if you put it into the graveyard straight from the library. Like if Dredge started pushing more into white for some reason it would be fine.

Double Lightning Helix is not bad, especially not in limited. The flashback is a bonus on an already playable spell.
But you are unlikely to have the manabase to support it is the issue. You would need a primary black deck that's splashing for the third color. And I don't think a free lightning helix is necessarily worth splashing for on it's own. Maybe you stick in one off-color land and SOMETIMES have the Mana to flash it back but most of the time it will just be a four Mana sorcery speed lightning helix.
 

Steve Winwood

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Oct 31, 2017
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But you are unlikely to have the manabase to support it is the issue. You would need a primary black deck that's splashing for the third color. And I don't think a free lightning helix is necessarily worth splashing for on it's own. Maybe you stick in one off-color land and SOMETIMES have the Mana to flash it back but most of the time it will just be a four Mana sorcery speed lightning helix.
Multicolor ramp/control decks have been really common in these Masters sets; I'd expect there to be a strong 4/5c green deck that is actively interested in casting and flashing this back. Think it'll be a higher priority for those decks than for a more aggressive BR shell to want to splash it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,254
This set has a "Poochie" problem with the new cards. Reprints being de-emphasized so that the cards R&D created would be the focus in the FIRST EVER SET TO BRING CARDS TO MODERN OUTSIDE OF STANDARD is something that screams "creative ownership ego at work", where the new shinies your team has invested in creating are valued above the reliable old standbys you didn't have a role in.
Sure. But most of the cards people would love and demand would be format-warping and overall far too strong. So from a design standpoint, ego aside, it makes more sense to design your own cards at the appropriate power level and find another way to tie it in with Magic's history.
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
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Sure. But most of the cards people would love and demand would be format-warping and overall far too strong. So from a design standpoint, ego aside, it makes more sense to design your own cards at the appropriate power level and find another way to tie it in with Magic's history.
I'm not talking about the format-warping ones though. I argued against Counterspell before spoilers were out.

But there are plenty of cool non-format warping ones in Invasion/Odyssey/Onslaught that could slot right in. Pernicious Deed. Undermine. But they were deliberately not putting high profile splashy old cards in the set because well, let the words speak for themselves.

We liked a handful of reprints (There are 40, plus the snow-covered lands) as an homage to the Time Spiral "Bonus Sheet," but we didn't want the reprints to dominate so much of what the set is about.
They fundamentally didn't understand what players would be expecting from the "first set to ever put cards directly into Modern".
 
MH1 - Soulherder; Thornado; Wall of Blossoms
OP
OP
SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'm not talking about the format-warping ones though. I argued against Counterspell before spoilers were out.

But there are plenty of cool non-format warping ones in Invasion/Odyssey/Onslaught that could slot right in. Pernicious Deed. Undermine. But they were deliberately not putting high profile splashy old cards in the set because well, let the words speak for themselves.



They fundamentally didn't understand what players would be expecting from the "first set to ever put cards directly into Modern".
I mean if that's the metric we're using, then they did put in old cards like that.





Forgot only the white version of Wall of Blossoms (Wall of Omens) is in Modern.
 

Bigkrev

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Oct 25, 2017
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If the pitch for the set wasn't "A set that will reprint cards into the modern format that weren't previously legal while including new cards designed for the format", and instead "a 250 card set that is legal for modern that is mostly new cards, with some cards being reprints that will now be legal in the format", I feel like I would appreciate this set more.
This feels more like a cross between a Conspiracy-style set without any of the gimmicks and being legal for modern, and "what if instead of doing Commander decks this year, we did the set as a booster expansion"
 
Oct 26, 2017
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I'm sure it was a rough balance to strike, keeping the format diverse and unique while introducing things that were previously legal in Legacy and Vintage. I think this set is really cool. I don't honestly get some of the hate I see.
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
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To be fair, I think Cabal Therapy is too powerful in Modern.
It almost certainly is. The issue is that Cabal Therapist is bad and exists solely to make a joke when it could be an actual reprint that won't be in the dollar bin. Who's the audience for this card? EDH doesn't want it. Modern Spike doesn't want it, it's bad. Modern Timmy doesn't want it, it's not impactful. Modern Johnny....has better things to occupy his time.

Just look at Invasion/Odyssey/Onslaught black rares

Balthor the Defiled
Bane of the Living
Braids, Cabal Minion
Chainer, Dementia Master
Decaying Soil
Desolation Angel
Desperate Research
Diabolic Intent
Entomb
Grinning Demon
Ichorid
Mortal Kombat

...and that's only from the first 60 cards in the search.

There are so many options for interesting cards that aren't stupid injokes.
 

ZealousD

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If the pitch for the set wasn't "A set that will reprint cards into the modern format that weren't previously legal while including new cards designed for the format", and instead "a 250 card set that is legal for modern that is mostly new cards, with some cards being reprints that will now be legal in the format", I feel like I would appreciate this set more.
When did Wizards ever imply that this was primarily a reprint set?

All the content creators went bonkers over what stuff they could reprint but literally the first two cards they showed off were brand new, one of which was Serra which was more about flavor and history than any real Modern playability.
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
23,256
When did Wizards ever imply that this was primarily a reprint set?

All the content creators went bonkers over what stuff they could reprint but literally the first two cards they showed off were brand new, one of which was Serra which was more about flavor and history than any real Modern playability.
When the pitch is "for the first time, cards are coming directly to modern!" and there are reprints, the reprints being deliberately de-emphasized to showcase injoke nostalgia designs is not what players are going to expect.
 

Yeef

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Oct 25, 2017
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This set has a "Poochie" problem with the new cards. Reprints being de-emphasized so that the cards R&D created would be the focus in the FIRST EVER SET TO BRING CARDS TO MODERN OUTSIDE OF STANDARD is something that screams "creative ownership ego at work", where the new shinies your team has invested in creating are valued above the reliable old standbys you didn't have a role in.
When the pitch is "for the first time, cards are coming directly to modern!" and there are reprints, the reprints being deliberately de-emphasized to showcase injoke nostalgia designs is not what players are going to expect.
The pitch of the set was "Time Spiral 2." The "new cards to modern" part was just an afterthought since it was an idea that had been tossed around plenty in the past. It's clear why the marketing people would want to emphasize the latter over the former, but in design they were clearly more interested in making a 'normal' set with tons of new, exciting cards.
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
23,256
The pitch of the set was "Time Spiral 2." The "new cards to modern" part was just an afterthought since it was an idea that had been tossed around plenty in the past. It's clear why the marketing people would want to emphasize the latter over the former, but in design they were clearly more interested in making a 'normal' set with tons of new, exciting cards.
This was the internal pitch.

This was not how it was pitched when announced.

The disconnect is a big problem.
 

Yeef

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Oct 25, 2017
795
New York
This was the internal pitch.

This was not how it was pitched when announced.

The disconnect is a big problem.
The disconnect is a problem, but to say that it was an ego thing doesn't work within that timeline. While designing the cards they were making Time Spiral 2. Marketing decided, after the fact, to play up the Modern aspect. That has nothing to do with the design process.
 
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