Here's the credits:
Catherine (Original):
Catherine Full Body:
Hopefully this shuts down the "but actually!!!" posts
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[Major Spoilers] One of the endings in Catherine: Full Body gets extremely transphobic... moreso than that original (OP Updated Feb. 17)
- Thread starter HylianSeven
- Start date
Hopefully this shuts down the "but actually!!!" posts
Reminder that the fact that Kanji "isn't gay" is supposed to be a happy resolution. The lesson is that "liking girly stuff doesn't have to mean that you're gay." It's very uplifting.
Jesus fucking christ I feel disgusted with myself for having ever believed in this game and Hashino (and perhaps Atlus by extension).
Ugh. Ugggh.
Ugh. Ugggh.
What they did with Kanji is such a fucking cop out in retrospect
Like I said before, this changes how I read what they wanted to do with Naoto
Stop supporting Atlus guys. This kind of aggressions and misrepresentations to the LGTB community have to stop. They pull the same kind of shit since persona 2.
I recommend this article about Atlus and their lack of touch as a company to LGTB community
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...dling-of-lgbtq-characters-catherine-full-body
I recommend this article about Atlus and their lack of touch as a company to LGTB community
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...dling-of-lgbtq-characters-catherine-full-body
I guess the Catherine business would have to do with how Japan seems to file transgender expression under a general "okama" file, where they seem to be perceived as "gay???"
Yeah, he was the director of Catherine, and as the producer, he no doubt had a lot of influence on this game's creative direction. He also did indeed say that Full Body represented a manifestation of the values they could not convey with the original.
But I think it's erroneous to put it all on Hashino. Even if it's just, like, Soejima needing to listen to him when it comes to his desire to make all of the female characters "cute."
And Catherine specifically at #4 trending on US Twitter trends for me. (Unfortunately it is on a Friday night.)
People are learning the difference more and more as LGBT people speak up. But I'm sure people if Hashino's generation mostly still think that way.
Its trending at 2 for me. A cursory look at the responses shows they're appropriately upset at what the fuck is happened.
Not fair because the power balance is completely different. It is not the hill you want to kill your career on and be blacklisted
There are other Atlus games outside of Persona and Catherine and they don't have these issues.
This shit has been consistent which Hashino's games and should be called out but there are plenty of other Atlus games that haven't been nearly this bad about it and I don't think the entirety of Atlus should be thrown under the bus for one Director's potentially bigoted views
How much of this is on Atlus only and how much is it on Japan's society? I'd be genuinely curious.
Welp I lost any interest I had in this game.
Other people in the thread are saying that people in Japan are also pissed.
Hm, is it? I suppose the hierarchy of "director" and "character designer" is usually clear-cut, but it's still Soejima we're talking about here. Dude's not gonna kill his career in the least by opposing ideologies like that. And, again, Gotoh was Full Body's director while Hashino was the producer; he'd presumably need to approve the game's contents in that case, which he did.
It's a complicated issue. I don't think any other Japanese developers on the level of Atlus consistently put out unfriendly LGBT content anywhere near as much as them. And basically all of it can be traced to the games under Hashino (the other staff and the company themselves still take some of the blame for going along with it). However, lack of visibility for LGBT social issues in Japan is why it still doesn't get addressed since international markets are secondary. While there are Japanese LGBT groups complaining/protesting, mainstream acceptance is still nowhere near where it should be.
I guess that's to say, it happens because of Atlus/Hashino. It continues to happen because of Japanese society's indifference.
L Thammy Just going to insult me, then move right a long when i respond. Charming.
The former is reflection of the latter.
Its on Atlas. They made the game. You can't pass the buck like that.
As many posters have mentioned in this thread, there is dozens of Japanese media out there that respectfully portrays LGBTQ+ issues (I mean Swery the GOAT just came out with The Missing) and Japanese LGBTQ+ gamers are rightfully pissed at this. I'd say this is more on the folk over at Studio Zero than Japanese society.
Not to mention it's something they've been repeatedly criticised for. Even from a Japan-centric perspective (where there's still people talking about it), it's hard to believe they've never gotten any feedback on these issues.
How do people interpret this (below)? It doesn't sound as bad as I feared it did, but I'm cishet so I might be missing something.
Thanks for posting.
Competitive Catherine player David Broweleit will no longer be playing or streaming Catherine because of this.
Yeah just saw this pop up on my feed holy shit, sad too considering he was really looking forward to it.
I'm hoping it's stuff like this that forces Atlus JP to make a statement.
He's basically the name when it comes to competitive Catherine.
Ty your post was illuminating. I find this kinda crap appalling, shame this dude in charge of Persona has such a stranglehold on Persona in addition to other games his team handles where we have to deal with this kind of crap.
Atlus JPN doesn't give a single fuck about outside Japan. Unfortunately.
Looking over some of his tweets from even a few hours before, it was clear he was really looking forward to this remake.
This really says something.
But Atlus as a company obviously support the guy, my good dude. The top brass don't even care about this kind of aggressions. That is messed up.
At most, you'll see a very facile PR statement. But nothing more.
They won't. Why would they want to damage the perceived value of their own product? They're a business. If they think transphobic content would hurt future games then they will probably prevent that, but until this bombs horribly (which I don't think it will), then they'll let Atlus do what they want.
Twist: Players were promised Sony wouldn't make any "changes" to this game, but people were worried about the wrong issues. Actually, I take that back. There's basically zero crossover between people who'd be upset about a reduction in anime boobs vs those frustrated by transphobic content, so it was just the wrong people who were worried.
Yeah I'm done even vaguely trying to defend Atlus even if they do make some things I enjoy. There was a very, very open and public backlash from P5 recently and it was even reinforced in recent months with the P5 anime, so there's no trying to feign ignorance permitted here. This was already a known problem within the company that's being allowed to continue by management at all levels who clearly give zero fucks about the matter. Or, they might as well not care, for all the effort that's been avoided into changing anything. That includes people at Sega.
At least I know better than to waste any energy on hoping something changes.
Yeah I'm done even vaguely trying to defend Atlus even if they do make some things I enjoy. There was a very, very open and public backlash from P5 recently and it was even reinforced in recent months with the P5 anime, so there's no trying to feign ignorance permitted here. This was already a known problem within the company that's being allowed to continue by management at all levels who clearly give zero fucks about the matter. Or, they might as well not care, for all the effort that's been avoided into changing anything. That includes people at Sega.
At least I know better than to waste any energy on hoping something changes.
I just hope all this perhaps isn't as bad as the initial reactions made it seem. I just want to hope that they really did intended this scene to portray a pre-transition Erica who'll transition and be accepted by Toby down the line, but Atlus really hasn't done anything to earn any benefit of the doubt here...
Most of Persona 4 was "Gay-teasing: The Game". It is very tiring in retrospect, I agree.
The fact that Toby is there with his work clothes on means that it had to have taken place during the same period as the events of the game since Toby is 23 during the game and only recently got his job/met everyone. There could be a hypothetical later transition in this new timeline, but as it stands it erases Erica transitioning when she originally did in that timeline (surgery and otherwise) and has her live (seemingly happily) well into her thirties.
Call me cynical based on previous treatment of her, but it feels like an erasure of her struggles as a trans individual.
I've been kind of grasping at straws in the last hour trying to fit that scene into a non-transphobic interpretation with my very limited knowledge of what's going on, but this sounds like a very sensible explanation as to why trans folks still find it hurtful. Thank you very much. (I'd also love to hear any other thoughts on why else even a charitable interpretation (she's still trans, just pre-transition) could be transphobic, because my understanding of trans issues is less than sufficient).
Male crossdresser. Rin's route is actually not handled terribly. Vincent immediately apologizes for his kneejerk reaction when he finds out Rin's sex, and Rin's route ends with Vincent and Rin in a relationship without any dumb jokes made about them, and Erica and Tobby are hinted to happily be in a relationship in this route too, with Erica debuting as a female pro-wrestler.
Yeah, I've edited my post. It didn't cross my mind about Toby being there. I honestly can't think of a single reason why Erica is pre-transition in that scene, like, she just is, there's no explanation.
Vincent seems to say "you're a boy" and she says "yeah".
Also, regarding Toby and Erica, Toby is never hinted to be gay. Like the opposite is made clear.
So them dating is interesting. It's just given the track record of Atlus it's hard to see good will there.
Also, regarding Toby and Erica, Toby is never hinted to be gay. Like the opposite is made clear.
So them dating is interesting. It's just given the track record of Atlus it's hard to see good will there.
