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[Major Spoilers] One of the endings in Catherine: Full Body gets extremely transphobic... moreso than that original (OP Updated Feb. 17)
- Thread starter HylianSeven
- Start date
What........ Didn't play the original, but what the hell at this, plus the dead naming in the credits.
Oof, I remembered "Operation Babe," but maybe I didn't originally take notice of her being trans via Portable. Damn at them adding a (?) to pretty lady.
Oof, I remembered "Operation Babe," but maybe I didn't originally take notice of her being trans via Portable. Damn at them adding a (?) to pretty lady.
You gotta feel for the people in charge of localizing this game. At some point, Japanese company needs to learn that this shit won't fly in where they want to sell the game.
This thread wouldn't exist if the game is banned, yet I think it should exist. Talking about something is not the same as endorsing it. In your eyes Era is a giant advertisement board?
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I'm hoping the game at least mega bombs. Losing money is probably the only way they will learn.
Not the case in Classic but then again that was handled by SEGA Europe so I'm not entirely sure.
That's why I never knew about this scene. I only played P3P, and only played the FeMC route.
Seeing it, though? Yikes...
I think a comprehensive thread detailing the transphobia and even homophobia in ATLUS games would be very welcome now with the wave of attention this particular case will bring. It's a great opportunity to bring light to this issue.
I'm not as well-versed in ATLUS' full catalogue as some, so even I could use a lesson in that regard.
For example: Almost 10 pages of discussion and this is the first time it's been raised that Erica was dead named in the original title's credits. Wow.
I'm not as well-versed in ATLUS' full catalogue as some, so even I could use a lesson in that regard.
For example: Almost 10 pages of discussion and this is the first time it's been raised that Erica was dead named in the original title's credits. Wow.
Yeah, that's also kinda the thing. Though it seems like he really started to become influential once he became a producer, after Kouji Okada, one of the company's founders, left. Kazuma Kaneko has also done a lot less work lately, so most of the original/founding members of Atlus have largely either left or been pushed into the background at this point.
The result is a VERY different Atlus from what it once was, with Hashino largely leading the company's direction now.
What's with the insult ? And why are you accusing me of being disingenuous ?
And i do understand. As disgusting as this is, it's not comparable to pedo shit. And shouldn't be banned.
The game shouldn't be a forbidden topic for discussion.
And i wasn't suggesting that people were those things. i was Pointing out that the poster was hypothetically cool with one from over bigotry, but not the other.
Then why care about Hashino's beliefs ? The bigotry still exists in the art. Whether the artist is alive or dead.
Seconded.
Yeah, I specifically want to know this about Full Body.
The thing is that the optics of all of this are so bewilderingly bad that it'd be incredible for it to all be intentionally harmful and not, at least in part, horribly misguided.
There's the comment that they apparently don't demean Erica when she talks about participating in woman's wrestling now. So I want to know the credits element, too, to see if they at least attempted to rectify mistakes they made in the past, or if this was truly, 100% a case of them not giving a shit.
The sexism is worth detailing as well, I think. For example, Persona 3 doesn't allow platonic relationships with girls because Hashino couldn't imagine friendship between boys and girls, as he admitted in an interview.
Because I don't want to support him financially?
This isn't hard to grasp
I'll just wiki the game
Can we at least not have threads advertising the game, such as OTs and trailer threads?
We actually talked about it on page 2, for what it's worth. I brought it up and then it was backed up.
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Which ablsoutely fine. But that's not the same as wanting it to be ban it from being discussed.
Which was my point.
honestly disgusted . no respect for those who identify as trans . how is it that Nintendo that was an uptight japanese company progress a lot to having their main characters (male) cross dress in feminine clothes to hopefully make those who do in real life relate to the characters , while atlus is stuck in the past, keeping these disrespectful ideas?
I feel like that's the best way to go about it, though I feel bad for the person who made the OT already.
That actually reminds me. While Hashino likely won't get any money from Joker being in Smash, having two characters tied to homophobic creators back-to-back may not be a good look for Nintendo if "Brave" is who we think it is (& is Fighters Pass Character #2).
I want to believe this is driven by ignorance rather than maliciousness, but I suppose the result is the same. Like, Vincent being shocked at Rin's genitalia is ultimately something realistic and could have set up a character arc of him learning to accept it or something but his reaction and pretty much everything else is some shit. I hope at some point it's brought up in an interview with Hashino.
Hashino won't, but Atlus in general getting money from my DLC purchase bums me the fuck out. Atlus will enable Hashino until the end of time.
Who can add to this list of characters associated to assholes? Earthworm Jim maybe?
Here's the credits:
Catherine (Original):
Catherine Full Body:
Ah, how kind of them to at least put her name before her deadname this time. Wow.
They couldn't even resist doing "EricA"? Really?
Here's the credits:
Catherine (Original):
Catherine Full Body:
So it is basically the same.
This is just disgusting. How hard it can be to not shit on people like this ? I decide to boycott all their shit for good and forever, that's beyond forgivable and not the first time.
Christ, just when you thought it couldn't get any worse. BAM!Here's the credits:
Catherine (Original):
Catherine Full Body:
Thank you, I think this is best. I'd rather save banning for games that are are just irredeemably offensive trash, not for something that's offensive but... well, the company isn't explicitly catering to transphobic trash so much as having ignorant/bigoted/thick headed people in charge. There's something to actually analyze/call out here, not just a trash tier game that actively has nothing worth discussing except for being awful.
And these changes definitely piss me off, at best it's naively done because they refuse to listen, at worst it's showing unflinching bigoted views. Some of these lines I'm hearing of seem to make me think it's like Hashino might kind of understand these topics but falls into bad/outdated global cultural views and won't seriously try to adjust otherwise. Should he be someone that would actually consider himself an ally or at least someone who doesn't harbor out and out hate in his heart, the best thing he can do is to steer away from these topics for good.
Yeah. I just read about the leaked details, but the game would be... "problematic" even without this.
Why can't we have normal anime game, with pretty characters and without all the pervy stuff?
damn worse than the steam portHere's the credits:
Catherine (Original):
Catherine Full Body:
Well if enough pressure is thrown at SEGA, they can remove Hashino at any time since they own Atlus now. So there is a small chance something can be done now that Atlus answers to someone
Here's the credits:
Catherine (Original):
Catherine Full Body:
Even doing "EricA" FFS.
I didn't weigh in at all on whether or not I personally think the game should banned. I'm saying that if discusssion of the game was banned, and when games like Hatred are banned, that's what the purpose of the ban is. It isn't to hurt the game's feelings. It isn't to punish ResetEra's users. It's a way of preventing the harm caused by spreading awareness of the game and allowing the people who make it to benefit. Which is why comparing it to the works of an author who has been dead for decades is not equivalent.
And, yes, a forum dedicated to video games, which are luxury goods and generally commercial products, is largely a giant advertising board. Not to mention that, you know, the forum is an advertising board.
I am simultaneously extremely disappointed and yet entirely unsurprised
Jesus fucking Christ, Atlas. No wonder Persona 5 was such a shit game, y'all tried to write a story about the disenfranchised fighting the system when y'all just can't help but shit on the disenfranchised
Jesus fucking Christ, Atlas. No wonder Persona 5 was such a shit game, y'all tried to write a story about the disenfranchised fighting the system when y'all just can't help but shit on the disenfranchised
Thanks. So they kept it. Welp.Here's the credits:
Catherine (Original):
Catherine Full Body:
There's going to need to be an official statement from some Atlus department, whether Japan or USA, sooner than later. It's getting to the point where they won't be able to simply ignore it.
Understandably, people point to Hashino a lot for this, but he wasn't the director for Catherine: Full Body. There are other scenario writers / planners for these games. There are other people who are complicit with the ideas, or are even responsible for them in the first place.
Hashino likes themes of togetherness and acceptance, but elements of games he's involved with go directly against that. I would love for him to finally acknowledge that in an interview.
An earlier comment said that there is negative feedback for this stuff in Japan, but I have to wonder just how loud/active it is. Atlus clearly focuses solely on Japan when it comes to the content of their games, so I feel like it'd take a real push from there.
I think you linked to the wrong post, but I see what you're referring to. Thanks for the correction!
As much as I have loved Atlus games I would be a huge hypocrite to continue support this trash. Unless they make some major changes I'm done supporting their work
It's still pretty bad because it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the experiences trans people go through. Why in the everloving hell would Erica delay transitioning just for Toby? Her life doesn't revolve around him; she transitioned in the original game for her own reasons, so the implication that she's waiting to tell him before transitioning is beyond fucked. Also, the "maybe it's not necessary for her because she's happy" is also incredibly messed up for reasons that should be obvious.
I'm not Trans, so I can't speak to someone else's experience, but I can't imagine someone like Erica would ever that long to transition. It just strains believability especially when you consider how happy she is post-transition (+the fact that the wedding at least takes place a decade later since Toby is 10 years younger than the main crew)
Huh, that's bizarre. I think the link didn't copy right? I was having issues with that earlier; I think because I already had a forum link copied I didn't catch it this time. Weird.
EDIT: fixed it in that post, in any case
Didn't Hashino direct the original Catherine though? There was a post earlier in this thread stating that the concept for Full Body is exactly what they wanted to do with Catherine but it wasn't the right "time" yet, whatever that means. I'd imagine he'd have quite a lot of influence in the making of Full Body, delegating a lot of the ideas and concept dev to those under him as you state.
Yeah, he's 23 in the game and only got his job recently iirc, so the picture of then together basically needs to be during the same period of time as the events of the game. Couldn't be much earlier since Toby wouldn't have his work uniform.
