Yeah I suppose the additional context surrounding it sortve throws that theory out of the water.
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[Major Spoilers] One of the endings in Catherine: Full Body gets extremely transphobic... moreso than that original (OP Updated Feb. 17)
- Thread starter HylianSeven
- Start date
I am sending a formal request to the admins to add Catherine: Full Body to the Era banlist. This is a situation where the game itself is indefensibly riddled with offensive and inexcusable content, and condoning said content in its core messaging; same as Hatred, Omega Labyrinth, or other entries on the list. We cannot give this shit a platform here.
Please quote this post if you would like me to add your name to the message.
EDIT: The staff have received and made a formal response to our petition. Please see Morrigan's post. I will not be collecting further signatures, though I thank those who signed with me.
Please quote this post if you would like me to add your name to the message.
EDIT: The staff have received and made a formal response to our petition. Please see Morrigan's post. I will not be collecting further signatures, though I thank those who signed with me.
Last edited:
What the fuck kind of disgusting shit is this? ATLUS are fucking scumbags. Never touching this.
What's weird to me about the transphobic/homophobic jokes in Atlus games is that they're completely out of character, every single time
Persona 4, and its spin-offs, have massive monologues about accepting who you are and being your true self. It's literally the theme of the game. But characters constantly bring up Kanji's shadow as a joke, even though that happens with literally no other character after they're recruited (imagine if everyone was like "gonna go strip, Rise?" it'd be appalling)
The frustrating thing is they have an out for most of it too - make Yosuke closeted. It wouldn't be perfect, but that sort of deflection would actually make him somewhat realistically written - speaking from personal experience as a teen. As is the case now, though, he becomes a baffling jerk to Kanji for no reason, and no one stops him. Teddie is even worse and I think he gets way too much of a free pass for his shtick.
Same goes for Persona 5, almost everyone is great to Lala but those two gay stereotypes are to be feared/laughed at.
IIRC Lala was one of the most popular characters even in Japan so maybe that'll tip make them tweak things for Persona 5 R. But probably not.
Persona 4, and its spin-offs, have massive monologues about accepting who you are and being your true self. It's literally the theme of the game. But characters constantly bring up Kanji's shadow as a joke, even though that happens with literally no other character after they're recruited (imagine if everyone was like "gonna go strip, Rise?" it'd be appalling)
The frustrating thing is they have an out for most of it too - make Yosuke closeted. It wouldn't be perfect, but that sort of deflection would actually make him somewhat realistically written - speaking from personal experience as a teen. As is the case now, though, he becomes a baffling jerk to Kanji for no reason, and no one stops him. Teddie is even worse and I think he gets way too much of a free pass for his shtick.
Same goes for Persona 5, almost everyone is great to Lala but those two gay stereotypes are to be feared/laughed at.
IIRC Lala was one of the most popular characters even in Japan so maybe that'll tip make them tweak things for Persona 5 R. But probably not.
I'm not really committed to doing a boycott on Atlus products but I completely understand why people are willing to do it after this.
Regardless hopefully Atlus actually does do something about this because this goes beyond having some dumb shitty side characters that you meet once or twice in a 80 hour RPG. This is a full blown ending that you work towards and is implied to be the ideal ending, this is way more insidious to what they've done before.
So whatever Atlus does with Hashino I honestly wouldn't mind if the next Persona is handled by someone else if he's not going to take the hint or if they should even give him a chance to do it. He's made some cool ambitious games with a great style but if his touch is going to continue some toxic feelings toward the LGBT community then I wouldn't mind it if Atlus showed him the door.
Regardless hopefully Atlus actually does do something about this because this goes beyond having some dumb shitty side characters that you meet once or twice in a 80 hour RPG. This is a full blown ending that you work towards and is implied to be the ideal ending, this is way more insidious to what they've done before.
So whatever Atlus does with Hashino I honestly wouldn't mind if the next Persona is handled by someone else if he's not going to take the hint or if they should even give him a chance to do it. He's made some cool ambitious games with a great style but if his touch is going to continue some toxic feelings toward the LGBT community then I wouldn't mind it if Atlus showed him the door.
A nigga really had hope for this game
How incredibly dissapointing
Like what else has Full Body done wrong because I'm only hearing of the content based on this OP so far
Because unless there is minor sexualization shit going on this is no where near Hatred, Omega Labyrinth or those other entries.
How incredibly dissapointing
Hold on now, I'm going to need some sources for "indefensibly riddled with offensive and inexcusable content"
Like what else has Full Body done wrong because I'm only hearing of the content based on this OP so far
Because unless there is minor sexualization shit going on this is no where near Hatred, Omega Labyrinth or those other entries.
I'm guessing this sounds way cooler than it actually is.
That's spot on.
I should be surprised that Atlus would be this anti-LGBT+ but I'm not. If you paid attention to their games you would see a consistent message across all of them.
Atlus hates LGBT+ people. There is no defending them any longer.
Fuck Atlus.
Atlus hates LGBT+ people. There is no defending them any longer.
Fuck Atlus.
I guess it will depend if a lot of people is also feeling hurt by this. Unfortunately, if we're alone in our little corner of the internet to be angry it will not have much impact. Do we know what is the general feeling outside of Era?
These games (Team P) always set their stories as fighting against a conformist society. And always, ends up reinforcing that conformity.
Shame really.
But expanding it beyond that. Would be thoroughly unacceptable.
Shame really.
That's good to know.
But expanding it beyond that. Would be thoroughly unacceptable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender_and_transsexual_fictional_characters#Games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animated_works_with_LGBT_characters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_non-binary_characters
While these lists are far from comprehensive, the amount of work that's sourced from Japan that treats LGTBQ characters with dignity and respect shows that this isn't an issue with all of Japan's creative sector. Not even close.
Combine this with Persona 2's treatment of the protagonist being able to come out as gay (with that being treated as the "canon" option by the writer), and it's clear that at least some of the blame lies with Katsura Hashino.
Sega/Atlus should respond to this and make amends somehow. This is a massive problem that silence will only make worse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animated_works_with_LGBT_characters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_non-binary_characters
While these lists are far from comprehensive, the amount of work that's sourced from Japan that treats LGTBQ characters with dignity and respect shows that this isn't an issue with all of Japan's creative sector. Not even close.
Combine this with Persona 2's treatment of the protagonist being able to come out as gay (with that being treated as the "canon" option by the writer), and it's clear that at least some of the blame lies with Katsura Hashino.
Sega/Atlus should respond to this and make amends somehow. This is a massive problem that silence will only make worse.
I'm really seeing it now, P4 gave me a little hope albeit small and P5 just slapped it out of my hands but this is just what the fuck
I already messaged Cerium, but go ahead and add my name, especially if this message is being sent to the other admins.
Yeah. It seems like they did actually want to improve on the 'LGB' part of their reputation as I think there's also dialogue talking about how two of the female wrestlers they watch were dating, and it's treated without turning it into a joke about them. They trashed the 'T' part.
This news came from a Tweet so I'd imagine it will spread through Twitter.
I don't think this will go unnoticed. Only reason it would is Full Body not being that well known to the public but even then I don't think "Atlus made a super trans phobic good ending" is going to not get attention. Only reason Atlus got away with it before is that they were typically on a smaller scale. Hell P5 which was previously the worst offender with this was just 2 shitty side characters that would barely get 5 minutes of screentime. This is so much more prevalent in the game
Can we remove the single player so Catherine is just a purely competitive multiplayer game? It is the truest format that not even Atlus could hamfistly mess it up.
I'll cosign. I had kinda been looking forward to this release, but fuck this nonsense. It's totally inexcusable.
Some perspective from an industry member.
Hello, trans woman who works in the industry and also is about a dozen hours into the Japanese version of Full Body here. A few things:
1.)
2.) From Japanese industry scuttlebutt, this is 100% Hashino and his view of LGBTQ and global issues. Sickening given that he said that Full Body was the "completed" concept of the original Catherine, that they supposedly had to hold back on because society was in a different place 8 years ago. And then they made it worse.
3.) Atlus self-professes to not thinking at all about the global market when making games. I know very directly from current and former Atlus USA employees that they will never listen to Atlus USA when they make suggestions or voice opinions about the contents of the games. That said, it isn't only the Western audience that finds this shit gross. The Japanese market did in fact complain about Erica in the original game, and I've already seen early complaints about Full Body's treatment. To say that there isn't an active and vocal LGBTQ community in Japan is ignorance; they just don't get international media coverage.
4.) I have it on good authority that Atlus USA has been...doing their best with what they've been given. But I still expect this content to be in the Western release. Ugh.
1.)
The tweet isn't misrepresenting that specific ending. It's absolutely fucked. Also not the only transphobic moment in the game. When Vincent sees that Rin has male genitalia for the first time he feels tricked and instinctively hits Rin, causing her to run away. The rest of her route, should you pursue it, is about tracking her down.
2.) From Japanese industry scuttlebutt, this is 100% Hashino and his view of LGBTQ and global issues. Sickening given that he said that Full Body was the "completed" concept of the original Catherine, that they supposedly had to hold back on because society was in a different place 8 years ago. And then they made it worse.
3.) Atlus self-professes to not thinking at all about the global market when making games. I know very directly from current and former Atlus USA employees that they will never listen to Atlus USA when they make suggestions or voice opinions about the contents of the games. That said, it isn't only the Western audience that finds this shit gross. The Japanese market did in fact complain about Erica in the original game, and I've already seen early complaints about Full Body's treatment. To say that there isn't an active and vocal LGBTQ community in Japan is ignorance; they just don't get international media coverage.
4.) I have it on good authority that Atlus USA has been...doing their best with what they've been given. But I still expect this content to be in the Western release. Ugh.
Eat shit, Atlus
You can't keep getting away everytime
Catherine is one of my favorite games from last gen, but the guys at the beach in Persona 5, Anne's sexualization also in Persona 5 and now this ...
It's clear that Atlus is filth.
And it's not about the "western players reception", people. It shows how the japanese society is dealing with this stuff ,and it's very alarming.
You can't keep getting away everytime
Catherine is one of my favorite games from last gen, but the guys at the beach in Persona 5, Anne's sexualization also in Persona 5 and now this ...
It's clear that Atlus is filth.
And it's not about the "western players reception", people. It shows how the japanese society is dealing with this stuff ,and it's very alarming.
Man, Atlas has always been terrible with this shit yet they somehow always make it worse whenever they re-release their games with new content (see P4: Golden as well). I just knew they would do some dumb shit with Catherine: Fully Body.
I'm just done giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point.
I'm just done giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point.
Okay, great. I'm done with Atlus. Just cancelled my preorder of the Persona Q2 special edition.
They said "Fate", not "Fates".
Pretty sure they meant Fate/Stay night (or more specifically Fate/Grand Order), not Fire Emblem.
welp
that's worse than I knew, than, huh
Add me to it.
I'm of the opinion that we could stand to do this for more games as is.
Er, not Fire Emblem Fates, Fate as in FateGo, Fate Stay/Night and such. My mistake for not being clearer.
Talking about Chevalier d'Eon, Astolfo, and Shi Huangdi for clarity here.
Ah yes, my mistake. We need to give Hashino all the leeway, that's the only way one can justify such a blunder! ... aaaaaaaAAAAAAAAA
I am not sure a ban is needed, specially because of the .... ludonarrative dissonance between the story and the puzzle gameplay and lots of people play the puzzle part don't giving zero fucks about the rest. While in other banned games you can't spend 5 minutes without meeting something that justify's the ban.
That's gonna be a yikes from me.
I would hate to be part of the Atlus localization team right now. This shit is indefensible.
I would hate to be part of the Atlus localization team right now. This shit is indefensible.
Welp, this is the confirmation i needed to see really, thanks, been avoiding spoilers for this game but I can't overlook this shit especially when i wanted to believe they would do better.
Def add me to that list
Thank you for this information. It was very informative. :)
I don't expect any changes, but I imagine contacting Sega heads would probably be the most effective (along with probably the issue just getting more attention). And yeah. It sucks that Atlus USA will probably have to deal with the brunt of this as I know it clearly was a bad situation for them.
Lala is a caricature. One that is treated well by her friends and colleagues, but a caricature non-the-less. Her situation is played for laughs. It's one of those things that I feel gets overlooked because the running gag of the two guys is so over the top, it steals away from it.
But I don't see Lala as a character where you go "yeah, no, she's a really great piece of representation".
Jeez, I feel kinda sorry for Atlus USA for the boat they're in. From what I've heard, Sega of America doesn't have much pull either, so even they can't stamp down on it. And Sega Europe seemingly didn't even know Full Body existed, what with the PC port of the original.
Also that spoiler tag...
Kinda hoping it flops hard at this point, everywhere, even for a nicher Atlus title. For that reason...
I'll co-sign too.
OP
OP
Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door (Japanese version) treated trans people right in TWO THOUSAND FOUR. Catherine Full Body can't do it in TWO THOUSAND NINTEEN.
Thank you for this. I'm glad to hear Atlus USA gets it, but is given so little to work with unfortunately. Would Sega have any authority to force a change in Atlus over this shit?
WRT Naoto and Kanji my interpretation of them was that the devs included the Queer themes as shock value before the characters are revealed to be perfectly heteronormative all along. That you cannot romance Naoto unless you treat her as a damsel in distress and can then coerce her into dressing up as a schoolgirl for your amusement only reinforces this. Kanji, I feel, was made to be more interpreted as queer by the localization but I cannot confirm that.
Persona 4, in particular, is very much about the message that the status quo is what's best for everyone. I keep saying this but if they actually went through with Yosuke being a love interest we'd be talking up P4 for decades to come.
Persona 4, in particular, is very much about the message that the status quo is what's best for everyone. I keep saying this but if they actually went through with Yosuke being a love interest we'd be talking up P4 for decades to come.