I missed the story on this one.
Okay found a link: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...inspired-by-farright-police-say-a4093986.html
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Major terrorist (white supremacist) attack in Christchurch (NZ) [UP6: 4 suspects in custody, 50 confirmed dead] (READ THREADMARKS)
- Thread starter Trevelyon
- Start date
I missed the story on this one.
Okay found a link: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...inspired-by-farright-police-say-a4093986.html
"I concede in my post the two events are completely unrelated, but I'm gonna go ahead with this poor comparison anyways."
Violence is an agreed upon distinction. Nobody can deny that punching someone is a violent act which is why we are comfortable saying that violence is not caused by music or games because we all have the ability to recognize violence and stop ourselves from engaging in it.
Racism, sexism and the sort do not have an agreed upon distinction. There are thousands of people who don't think saying "Death to all Jews" is antisemetic, the world doesn't have the same agreed upon distinction that violence has about these things. Because of that not everyone is able to recognize that the racist lyrics they are hearing or sexist imagery they are seeing are bad things, especially if they are not being framed as bad things. And when people have been convinced by media that calling someone the N word doesn't make you a racist then people end up using it because after all, what's the harm in doing something that isn't bad?
Second of all. Not everyone deserves to be on the equal space. People can say whatever they want but that doesn't mean going on Nick Jr and spouting off white genocide conspiracy theories should be accepted. If people wanna do that shit they can go on fucking Stormfront or any other racist website out there. It should not be on the same platform that others use to spread messages of peace. It should not be in the public discourse treated as an equal opinion.
These social media companies have billions of dollars and have not made the level of investment required to stop this.
There should be a dedicated team of hundreds worldwide at Facebook to monitor livestreams, and an algorithm for accounts that usually don't have that many views but are suddenly getting massive traffic on their livestream that will automatically place that livestream as a major priority for immediate review.
There should also be a delay on livestreams for unverified accounts.
Basically I'm saying these super duper smart tech companies are complete failures when it comes to public safety and I'm all for the government stepping in when they fail the next time.
There should be a dedicated team of hundreds worldwide at Facebook to monitor livestreams, and an algorithm for accounts that usually don't have that many views but are suddenly getting massive traffic on their livestream that will automatically place that livestream as a major priority for immediate review.
There should also be a delay on livestreams for unverified accounts.
Basically I'm saying these super duper smart tech companies are complete failures when it comes to public safety and I'm all for the government stepping in when they fail the next time.
nzherald @nzherald
Exclusive: Accused mosque gunman sacks lawyer and plans to defend himself, concern he'll use a trial as platform to promote beliefs http://nzh.nu/SRTP30o4We2
6:52 PM - Mar 17, 2019
Andrew Beatty @AndrewBeatty
The Australian gunman charged in the New Zealand twin mosque attack plans to represent himself, his court-appointed duty lawyer tells @AFP's @curious_scribe
11:16 PM - Mar 17, 2019
Exclusive: Accused mosque gunman sacks lawyer and plans to defend himself, concern he'll use a trial as platform to promote beliefs http://nzh.nu/SRTP30o4We2
6:52 PM - Mar 17, 2019
Andrew Beatty @AndrewBeatty
The Australian gunman charged in the New Zealand twin mosque attack plans to represent himself, his court-appointed duty lawyer tells @AFP's @curious_scribe
11:16 PM - Mar 17, 2019
History has shown capitalists don't give half a fuck about public safety or even common decency.
It has to be forced on them every time.
Regulating social media should have been a conversation 10 years ago.
Patched gang members as well. We have multiple gangs here but they don't go around randomly killing
His name is already out there. And...
Why else do you think he had all those white supremacist terrorists' names on his guns?
Makes sense. I know who he is but wish more incidents were handled in this way.
I remember when Occupy Wall St happened, 8 years ago, and everyone thought Banks were the most dangerous thing in the world
Close enough, but yeah.
EDIT: Removed descriptions. Yeah, really bad idea.
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Terra Firma He does - and it's one of the most truely heinous things I've ever seen someone do to another human.
Do us a favour and remove that part from your post, I for one having seen it, don't need to be reminded of it.
Do us a favour and remove that part from your post, I for one having seen it, don't need to be reminded of it.
The judge seems to be on the case. Hopefully he shuts down anything that's irrelevant to the attack.
Just to clarify, the funeral costs and income compensation is not Jacinda Ardern going above and beyond specifically for the victims to pay their funeral costs.
Both of these are already existing entitlements though ACC (Accident Compensation Corporation), granted to any victims of murder or manslaughter, regardless of their citizenship or immigration status.
Yes, but the point is that you get none of that in America. Hence the comparison in the tweet.
The US doesn't even meet the NZ baseline.
I hope the judge literally orders the suspect to be gagged during the trial.
Does New Zealand have publication bans? If so they better have one for whatever this guy says.
That story is crazy. He literally chased a gunman around a car park dodging shots then picked the empty gun and threw it back at him. The guy must have had so much adrenaline running through him I'm surprised he didn't throw a car at him. What a hero.
Post-Cabinet meeting press conference summary with PM Jacinda Ardern and Deputy PM/Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters
Full video: https://www.facebook.com/jacindaardern/videos/546035515886781/
- reiterates free text/call hotline is available for people who are distressed or have mental health concerns due to the attack
- tomorrow, MPs will gather in Parliament for statements of condolence
- Jacinda returns to Christchurch on Wednesday to meet with first responders and families
- process of returning bodies to families is fully underway, aims to be completed on Wednesday
Cabinet meeting details
- Included members of Labour, NZ First and Green Party to discuss key issues around the attack
- Cabinet has made 'in-principle' decisions on gun laws (basically the outcome has been decided but the details are still to be worked out), more details before next Cabinet meeting next Monday
- within 10 days of the terrorist attack, gun law reform will be announced
- Cabinet was unified in decisions with no disagreement
- understands that gun owners may have concerns, says that they are not targeted by the reform, believes that most gun owners will be in favour of the changes
- reminds and encourages people that they can surrender their gun to the Police at any time, has heard reports that people are doing this
- there will be an Enquiry around the attack, regarding what each agencies knew, or could/should have known, the offender's activity regarding travel and gun ownership, his use of social media and relationships to others, and information sharing between agencies. Includes SIS, GCSB, Police, Customs, Immigration. Details being finalised
- preliminary discussions around official national commemorations, memorial date to be announced soon, but will not be this week to prioritise the families and their grieving
- funeral grant available through ACC for families of victims, up to $10,000
- Victim Support to finalise other support eg. transporting bodies overseas
- high police visibility to continue in Christchurch
Question time (questions and answers paraphrased)
Q. Are you saying a ban on semiautomatic weapons is coming?
JA: If anyone has concerns about the legality of a gun they own, or are concerned about public safety due to the attack, they are welcome to surrender that weapon. We have made in-principle decisions within 72 hours and are taking the time to finalise the details
Q. Will the changes involve semiautomatic weapons?
JA: I've said before that NZers question the availability of military style semiautomatic weapons. But details are still to come. When Australia were in the same position they took 12 days to make a decision, we took 72 hours.
Q. Was the decision hard to make/agree on?
JA: No, cabinet was unified. NZ First party supported them (Winston Peters states it was a Cabinet decision)
Q. What's changed since the original 2017 recommendations?
JA: Unsure if this had ever reached the Select Committee
WP: The reality is our world changed on Friday, and so must our laws
Q. Tell us about the spike in threatening/violent messages after the attack
JA: This is a trend that occurs in regions that experience these kinds of attacks. We are looking at the lessons and patterns around this cycle and are taking precautions. This is also why our terror threat level remains on High
Q. Have you spoken to Facebook since their last update
JA: Not directly, but we know that 1.5 million uploads of the video have been stopped, with 1.2 million of them stopped automatically at the upload stage. I call on social media platforms to demonstrate responsiblity around the content that leads to these events and the people that perpetuate hate speech and violent threats
Q. Has Facebook indicated their changes?
JA: They have sent condolences, are working proactively to shut down video sharing of the attack, they have acknowledged the issues around hate speech. My view is there is more that can and should be done
Q. Details on people panic-buying firearms?
JA: No official reports but I have heard anecdotes. I would advise people who are thinking of investing in firearms right now to be cautious and wait for certainty
Q. Did you talk to the Australian Foreign Minster about deporting the offender?
WP: We talked about their condolences and their offer of support
Q. Turkish President has used the livestream footage in his election campaign, do you think that's acceptable?
WP: I made it clear to Turkish Foreign Minister that it misrepresents our contry and imperils the safety of NZers and people abroad and is unfair. We did not bring about this disaster and they understood that
Q. Has the terror watchlist changed?
JA: No advice received
Q. National day of mourning?
JA: Yes, details to be announced. Giving time to families to buried their loved ones is priority. It won't be this week because of this
Q. Did Cabinet consider a moratorium on gun sales as the new legislation is finalised?
JA: Yes it was discussed but any details still to come
Q. Muslims have been warning the government for years about this, why wasn't more done?
JA: I have put this question to our agencies who have assured me that threats have always been followed up on. But this is not enough, which is why there will be an Enquiry to look into these kinds of issues
Q. Should there be a Royal Commission?
JA: No specific decision on the nature of Enquiry (Royal Commission, Public Enquiry, Ministerial Enquiry). But timeliness, public confidence, and classified information will be considered when deciding this
Q. Are you suggesting there was disagreement at Cabinet?
JA: No, cabinet was unified, the time taken is because law is complicated
Q. Will the Opposition support your proposed changes?
JA: It's up to them but I imagine they will be supportive
Q. Gun City owner wants to meet, would you be willing to see him
JA: Haven't received his request but would consider it
Q. Does Christchurch have a problem with racism?
JA: WP is right, the primary suspect was not a NZ citizen. However that is not to say that there aren't people in NZ who hold values and idea and use language that is completely counter to what the vast majority of NZers believe. We cannot ignore that and we must be aware of the fact that there are those who do not share our values of openness, diversity, compassion, and we must confront this as a nation
Q. Will you pull advertising from Google/FB?
JA: This has not been discussed today
Q. Attorney General said semiautomatic weapons would be banned and that went around the world
JA: I've spoken to him since then
Full video: https://www.facebook.com/jacindaardern/videos/546035515886781/
- reiterates free text/call hotline is available for people who are distressed or have mental health concerns due to the attack
- tomorrow, MPs will gather in Parliament for statements of condolence
- Jacinda returns to Christchurch on Wednesday to meet with first responders and families
- process of returning bodies to families is fully underway, aims to be completed on Wednesday
Cabinet meeting details
- Included members of Labour, NZ First and Green Party to discuss key issues around the attack
- Cabinet has made 'in-principle' decisions on gun laws (basically the outcome has been decided but the details are still to be worked out), more details before next Cabinet meeting next Monday
- within 10 days of the terrorist attack, gun law reform will be announced
- Cabinet was unified in decisions with no disagreement
- understands that gun owners may have concerns, says that they are not targeted by the reform, believes that most gun owners will be in favour of the changes
- reminds and encourages people that they can surrender their gun to the Police at any time, has heard reports that people are doing this
- there will be an Enquiry around the attack, regarding what each agencies knew, or could/should have known, the offender's activity regarding travel and gun ownership, his use of social media and relationships to others, and information sharing between agencies. Includes SIS, GCSB, Police, Customs, Immigration. Details being finalised
- preliminary discussions around official national commemorations, memorial date to be announced soon, but will not be this week to prioritise the families and their grieving
- funeral grant available through ACC for families of victims, up to $10,000
- Victim Support to finalise other support eg. transporting bodies overseas
- high police visibility to continue in Christchurch
Question time (questions and answers paraphrased)
Q. Are you saying a ban on semiautomatic weapons is coming?
JA: If anyone has concerns about the legality of a gun they own, or are concerned about public safety due to the attack, they are welcome to surrender that weapon. We have made in-principle decisions within 72 hours and are taking the time to finalise the details
Q. Will the changes involve semiautomatic weapons?
JA: I've said before that NZers question the availability of military style semiautomatic weapons. But details are still to come. When Australia were in the same position they took 12 days to make a decision, we took 72 hours.
Q. Was the decision hard to make/agree on?
JA: No, cabinet was unified. NZ First party supported them (Winston Peters states it was a Cabinet decision)
Q. What's changed since the original 2017 recommendations?
JA: Unsure if this had ever reached the Select Committee
WP: The reality is our world changed on Friday, and so must our laws
Q. Tell us about the spike in threatening/violent messages after the attack
JA: This is a trend that occurs in regions that experience these kinds of attacks. We are looking at the lessons and patterns around this cycle and are taking precautions. This is also why our terror threat level remains on High
Q. Have you spoken to Facebook since their last update
JA: Not directly, but we know that 1.5 million uploads of the video have been stopped, with 1.2 million of them stopped automatically at the upload stage. I call on social media platforms to demonstrate responsiblity around the content that leads to these events and the people that perpetuate hate speech and violent threats
Q. Has Facebook indicated their changes?
JA: They have sent condolences, are working proactively to shut down video sharing of the attack, they have acknowledged the issues around hate speech. My view is there is more that can and should be done
Q. Details on people panic-buying firearms?
JA: No official reports but I have heard anecdotes. I would advise people who are thinking of investing in firearms right now to be cautious and wait for certainty
Q. Did you talk to the Australian Foreign Minster about deporting the offender?
WP: We talked about their condolences and their offer of support
Q. Turkish President has used the livestream footage in his election campaign, do you think that's acceptable?
WP: I made it clear to Turkish Foreign Minister that it misrepresents our contry and imperils the safety of NZers and people abroad and is unfair. We did not bring about this disaster and they understood that
Q. Has the terror watchlist changed?
JA: No advice received
Q. National day of mourning?
JA: Yes, details to be announced. Giving time to families to buried their loved ones is priority. It won't be this week because of this
Q. Did Cabinet consider a moratorium on gun sales as the new legislation is finalised?
JA: Yes it was discussed but any details still to come
Q. Muslims have been warning the government for years about this, why wasn't more done?
JA: I have put this question to our agencies who have assured me that threats have always been followed up on. But this is not enough, which is why there will be an Enquiry to look into these kinds of issues
Q. Should there be a Royal Commission?
JA: No specific decision on the nature of Enquiry (Royal Commission, Public Enquiry, Ministerial Enquiry). But timeliness, public confidence, and classified information will be considered when deciding this
Q. Are you suggesting there was disagreement at Cabinet?
JA: No, cabinet was unified, the time taken is because law is complicated
Q. Will the Opposition support your proposed changes?
JA: It's up to them but I imagine they will be supportive
Q. Gun City owner wants to meet, would you be willing to see him
JA: Haven't received his request but would consider it
Q. Does Christchurch have a problem with racism?
JA: WP is right, the primary suspect was not a NZ citizen. However that is not to say that there aren't people in NZ who hold values and idea and use language that is completely counter to what the vast majority of NZers believe. We cannot ignore that and we must be aware of the fact that there are those who do not share our values of openness, diversity, compassion, and we must confront this as a nation
Q. Will you pull advertising from Google/FB?
JA: This has not been discussed today
Q. Attorney General said semiautomatic weapons would be banned and that went around the world
JA: I've spoken to him since then
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He's definitely going to try to grandstand in front of the court and hope it's televised. They need to be ready to stop him
Swift action, sensible changes, citizens' welfare prioritised over anything else. Why can't all developed countries be so sensible with their gun laws?
I seems that thoughts and prayers are more effective than gun control.
That's image we see in Europe regarding the issue in the USA.
In France we had terrorist attacks regularly for less than 10 years.
We haven't to change the law because we can't buy assault rifles and even if we want to buy a handgun , the process is long and difficult. (Gun permit, no criminal past , you need to register the gun at the police station, the gun must locked in a safe etc...)
And you know what?, we don't have mass shootings (excepts terrorist attacks).
Breivik did the same thing here in Norway he kept his lawyer he tried to grandstand several times but the judge shut him down pretty quickly.
And the media was shut out of the court several times only allowed to report what was going on but not actually film it.
I mean, in the grand scheme of things unchecked capitalism is going to kill us all a lot faster than white supremacy will.
Sorry mate but the reason why people do these things is massively important, it's not acceptable to just go 'dude is just crazy' because that isn't an explanation.
Why don't you tell that to the families of the victims.
True, but when hateful statements are made against groups who are able to read the same book without killing people, it just causes an even wider division and lights the fuse for the next attack.
so the people who dislike white supremacists are the ones causing the real division?