so the people who dislike white supremacists are the ones causing the real division?
I'm not talking hate groups, I'm talking about blaming whole groups of people, typically based upon their religion or the color of their skin.
so the people who dislike white supremacists are the ones causing the real division?
I'm not talking hate groups, I'm talking about blaming whole groups of people, typically based upon their religion or the color of their skin.
I'm not talking hate groups, I'm talking about blaming whole groups of people, typically based upon their religion or the color of their skin.
I've seen people (like that Aussie Congressman) blaming the victims and treating them like "Others" because of their religion. I hope that's what he's talking about.
Last I checked, no one is blaming all white men, guy with 18 month old account with barely 50 posts.
I've seen people (like that Aussie Congressman) blaming the victims and treating them like "Others" because of their religion. I hope that's what he's talking about.
you're a bit more generous than i am. i didn't think they were preaching to the choir
I understand what you're talking about but in relation to this topic, this man was a white supremacist. That is an ideology that deserves to be hated and treated with disdain.True, but when hateful statements are made against groups who are able to read the same book without killing people, it just causes an even wider division and lights the fuse for the next attack.
I understand what you're talking about but in relation to this topic, this man was a white supremacist. That is an ideology that deserves to be hated and treated with disdain.
In your mind, which groups are hateful statements being made about in relation to this topic?
Whenever a tragedy like this happens we always blame
- A whole group of other people
- Their religions
- The laws
- Their upbringing
- Their friends
- Books
Let's blame the crazy person who did this, instead of causing even more subdivision and hate.
It was more of the digging around by the media to try to come up with some sort of reason for this, and all the mental gymnastics on twitter. I just watched the video of his parents and it broke my heart, why even bring them into the picture? What are they supposed to say? And who cares about his upbringing?
Everyone who has walked this earth for a few decades have had to deal with shit, it doesn't excuse any type of violent behavior.
All I wanted to say is focus on the person who did this, and don't blame everything else.
I don't even understand why white supremacists groups are legal, or any hate group for that matter.
It was more of the digging around by the media to try to come up with some sort of reason for this, and all the mental gymnastics on twitter. I just watched the video of his parents and it broke my heart, why even bring them into the picture? What are they supposed to say? And who cares about his upbringing?
Everyone who has walked this earth for a few decades have had to deal with shit, it doesn't excuse any type of violent behavior.
All I wanted to say is focus on the person who did this, and don't blame everything else.
I don't even understand why white supremacists groups are legal, or any hate group for that matter.
Whenever a tragedy like this happens we always blame
- A whole group of other people
- Their religions
- The laws
- Their upbringing
- Their friends
- Books
Let's blame the crazy person who did this, instead of causing even more subdivision and hate.
Hate the killer, not what made him kill. That honestly sounds like what you are saying, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you aren't saying that, correct?
This post reads as if people are wholly separate from the world; they are not. Whether we are "loners" or "extroverts" we are still intrinsically linked with and influenced by the larger environment, which we then in turn influence ourselves. So, while each individual is indeed "personally responsible" for themselves, we cannot simultaneously only look at the person as cut off from the rest of the world. You need to uncover the balance between the individual's doing and the greater doing of the environment they are in/put themselves in. It is a hard balance to find but we must strive to. It is far too easy to pass the blame from the individual to external causes in just the same way it is far too easy to blame an individual as if they were an isolated event.
Just don't paint with too broad of a brush when trying to figure out why.
What I'm trying to say is don't attack large groups of people who might have shared the killers religion, that doesn't help anyone. Don't push the blame away from the killer an onto things like "Well, he had a rough childhood, no wonder why he did that" Or "Oh, he was a muslim, that's why he did it". We have to be much more diligent.
Police said it's bad timing but unrelated, guy was just intoxicated and has been arrested.
Radicalization is always a fear for large-scale terrorist attacks. In the case of Muslim terrorists, it is important to know where they were radicalized (whether it was a local mosque, chat group, internet video, direct contact with known terrorist group) while not demonizing all Muslims. Similarly, for the people involved here it's important to root out where they came up with the idea to do such a thing, who supported them, and if there are more likeminded individuals out there. The "he's a crazy lone wolf" bit doesn't help anyone.
The Chan of Latter Day SaintsWhat is the "religion" people are supposedly attacking here? White supremacy?
What is the "religion" people are supposedly attacking here? White supremacy?
Even among radicalized people only a handful of them actually carryout these types of attacks. You can certainly tick a bunch of boxes with common traits these people have, yet you have a large group which ticks the same boxes who doesn't carry out these attacks.
It almost like the gene is out of the bottle, and we can't put it back in. The mental barrier for carrying out these attacks have been softened and somehow "normalized".
If you had one crazy person in the village in the olden days, everyone knew he was crazy. Even the crazy person probably knew. These days you can find people who share your crazy ideas in a matter of minutes, and suddenly it doesn't seem like you are alone in the world with your crazy world view.
Local governments monitor traffic from known terrorist organizations and people who espouse hate speech online to preemptively stop future attacks. Most of these we never hear about, or they get a small writeup when the person is arrested without incident with their stockpile. You can actually read the signs and save lives.
The Western world has tolerated White nationalist extremism far, far longer than any other kind of violent ideology in terms of monitoring and prevention. We can and should be actively looking into communities that believe these kind of attacks are justified and necessary, and what kind of access these people have to weapons that can do harm.
No, it was a general list of things people attack when these things happen. And also in response to people somehow pushing the blame over to the muslims in NZ.
You advocate not just painting people with a broad brush, but then you go and just use a different broad brush ("crazy people"). There are plenty of people with mental illnesses who don't go out and murder people.
Post-Cabinet meeting press conference summary with PM Jacinda Ardern and Deputy PM/Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters
Full video: https://www.facebook.com/jacindaardern/videos/546035515886781/
- reiterates free text/call hotline is available for people who are distressed or have mental health concerns due to the attack
- tomorrow, MPs will gather in Parliament for statements of condolence
- Jacinda returns to Christchurch on Wednesday to meet with first responders and families
- process of returning bodies to families is fully underway, aims to be completed on Wednesday
Cabinet meeting details
- Included members of Labour, NZ First and Green Party to discuss key issues around the attack
- Cabinet has made 'in-principle' decisions on gun laws (basically the outcome has been decided but the details are still to be worked out), more details before next Cabinet meeting next Monday
- within 10 days of the terrorist attack, gun law reform will be announced
- Cabinet was unified in decisions with no disagreement
- understands that gun owners may have concerns, says that they are not targeted by the reform, believes that most gun owners will be in favour of the changes
- reminds and encourages people that they can surrender their gun to the Police at any time, has heard reports that people are doing this
- there will be an Enquiry around the attack, regarding what each agencies knew, or could/should have known, the offender's activity regarding travel and gun ownership, his use of social media and relationships to others, and information sharing between agencies. Includes SIS, GCSB, Police, Customs, Immigration. Details being finalised
- preliminary discussions around official national commemorations, memorial date to be announced soon, but will not be this week to prioritise the families and their grieving
- funeral grant available through ACC for families of victims, up to $10,000
- Victim Support to finalise other support eg. transporting bodies overseas
- high police visibility to continue in Christchurch
Question time (questions and answers paraphrased)
Q. Are you saying a ban on semiautomatic weapons is coming?
JA: If anyone has concerns about the legality of a gun they own, or are concerned about public safety due to the attack, they are welcome to surrender that weapon. We have made in-principle decisions within 72 hours and are taking the time to finalise the details
Q. Will the changes involve semiautomatic weapons?
JA: I've said before that NZers question the availability of military style semiautomatic weapons. But details are still to come. When Australia were in the same position they took 12 days to make a decision, we took 72 hours.
Q. Was the decision hard to make/agree on?
JA: No, cabinet was unified. NZ First party supported them (Winston Peters states it was a Cabinet decision)
Q. What's changed since the original 2017 recommendations?
JA: Unsure if this had ever reached the Select Committee
WP: The reality is our world changed on Friday, and so must our laws
Q. Tell us about the spike in threatening/violent messages after the attack
JA: This is a trend that occurs in regions that experience these kinds of attacks. We are looking at the lessons and patterns around this cycle and are taking precautions. This is also why our terror threat level remains on High
Q. Have you spoken to Facebook since their last update
JA: Not directly, but we know that 1.5 million uploads of the video have been stopped, with 1.2 million of them stopped automatically at the upload stage. I call on social media platforms to demonstrate responsiblity around the content that leads to these events and the people that perpetuate hate speech and violent threats
Q. Has Facebook indicated their changes?
JA: They have sent condolences, are working proactively to shut down video sharing of the attack, they have acknowledged the issues around hate speech. My view is there is more that can and should be done
Q. Details on people panic-buying firearms?
JA: No official reports but I have heard anecdotes. I would advise people who are thinking of investing in firearms right now to be cautious and wait for certainty
Q. Did you talk to the Australian Foreign Minster about deporting the offender?
WP: We talked about their condolences and their offer of support
Q. Turkish President has used the livestream footage in his election campaign, do you think that's acceptable?
WP: I made it clear to Turkish Foreign Minister that it misrepresents our contry and imperils the safety of NZers and people abroad and is unfair. We did not bring about this disaster and they understood that
Q. Has the terror watchlist changed?
JA: No advice received
Q. National day of mourning?
JA: Yes, details to be announced. Giving time to families to buried their loved ones is priority. It won't be this week because of this
Q. Did Cabinet consider a moratorium on gun sales as the new legislation is finalised?
JA: Yes it was discussed but any details still to come
Q. Muslims have been warning the government for years about this, why wasn't more done?
JA: I have put this question to our agencies who have assured me that threats have always been followed up on. But this is not enough, which is why there will be an Enquiry to look into these kinds of issues
Q. Should there be a Royal Commission?
JA: No specific decision on the nature of Enquiry (Royal Commission, Public Enquiry, Ministerial Enquiry). But timeliness, public confidence, and classified information will be considered when deciding this
Q. Are you suggesting there was disagreement at Cabinet?
JA: No, cabinet was unified, the time taken is because law is complicated
Q. Will the Opposition support your proposed changes?
JA: It's up to them but I imagine they will be supportive
Q. Gun City owner wants to meet, would you be willing to see him
JA: Haven't received his request but would consider it
Q. Does Christchurch have a problem with racism?
JA: WP is right, the primary suspect was not a NZ citizen. However that is not to say that there aren't people in NZ who hold values and idea and use language that is completely counter to what the vast majority of NZers believe. We cannot ignore that and we must be aware of the fact that there are those who do not share our values of openness, diversity, compassion, and we must confront this as a nation
Q. Will you pull advertising from Google/FB?
JA: This has not been discussed today
Q. Attorney General said semiautomatic weapons would be banned and that went around the world
JA: I've spoken to him since then
"He is a terrorist, he is a criminal, he is an extremist. But he will, when I speak, be nameless," Ardern told her country's parliament.
"He may have sought notoriety, but we in New Zealand will give him nothing, not even his name," she added.
Ardern also criticized social media platforms for hosting the gunman's livestream of the attack.
"They are the publisher, not just the postman," she said. "There cannot be a case of all profit, no responsibility."
Clarification from the Police Commissioner today that the suspect was arrested within 22 minutes of emergency calls. Attack started at 1:40pm and suspect was arrested at 2:02pm.
The 36 minute figure reported earlier refers to the suspect being held in custody.
good goodNew Zealand's Prime Minister
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/new-...da-ardern-nameless_n_5c90ce89e4b04ed2c1ae6c62
Nativism and terror: clinging to 'cherished heritage'
The mosque gunman's manifesto shows a combination of nationalism and xenophobia, demanding regions be controlled by groups that identify as the true first owners of the land, writes Chris Wilson
There's been a lot of fantastic articles published this week and I've heard from a friend taking sociology at least they took time in lecture to address the event. I have my media class tomorrow which is about indigienty and settlement where I imagine we'll similarly discuss the myth of NZ as a nation of equal-opportunity immigration.A lecturer at my university wrote this Op-Ed which (while not groundbreaking) I found interesting.
(It does talk about the fact the claims of ownership are complete nonsense to begin with.)
New Zealand's Prime Minister
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/new-...da-ardern-nameless_n_5c90ce89e4b04ed2c1ae6c62
Perfectly understood your sentence