DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
Title: Should be mandatory everywhere.

Czech Republic has made face cover (scarfs, home-made masks) wearing mandatory and they have flattened their curve.

As for mask, any kind can do help the limit of the spread. The key reason that it works is because it prevents asymptomatic people from viral shedding.


www.scmp.com

Austria requires mask-wearing in supermarkets to cut pandemic’s spread

The move, the first by a European nation, could be seen as vindication for Asian officials who have stressed the importance of the practice.

The masks to be distributed in Austria are below medical grade and aimed at preventing the wearer from spreading it to others by coughing or sneezing, Kurz said, adding: "Currently the infections are far too high."

 
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fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
7,038
Agreed. It also freaks people out and helps keep their distance , and makes it harder for you to mess with your own face. Super easy to make with an old t-shirt.

Also related-this isn't so much airborne as aerosols, basically people singing in the same room for 2.5 hrs and 75% of them got COVID. Exposure was three weeks ago north of Seattle.

Choir Practice Turns Fatal. (LATimes)
 

Saya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,972
Couldn't find any mask, so I made my own from old shirts. Here's an easy tutorial if you're interested. Video is in Czech, but is easy enough to follow.

 

Ephonk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,003
Belgium
Take care with stuff like scarfs, this can give a false sense of security while not actually protecting a lot. Keeping distance and washing hands is still the most important part.

Proper masks are ofcourse ok, although we are seeing a worldwide scarcity so make sure your health workers don't need them more then you do as a citizen.
 
OP
OP
DukeBlueBall

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
www.nhs.uk

COVID-19 advice and services

Get NHS advice about COVID-19 and COVID-19 services, including testing, vaccination and the NHS COVID Pass.

"do not touch your eyes, nose or mouth if your hands are not clean"

Not evidence that eyes shed viral loads.

I think he means that besides the mouth, you can still catch it when the virus hits your eyes & nose. Not that someone is going to cry into your nose.

That's obvious and not the reason for encouraging mask wearing.
 

texhnolyze

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,560
Indonesia
Staying home =+1 point
Washing hands = +1 point
Wearing masks = +1 point
Etc.

Every little thing helps. The more you do, the better.
 
Oct 28, 2017
122
Unless you are displaying flu syntoms, and if that's the case why aren't you staying at home, you should not be wearing a mask. A mask will prevent you from touching your face but it will also grant you a false sense of security. That's it. Right now masks are scarce and should be reserved for the ones that truly need them: medical staff and pacients.
 
OP
OP
DukeBlueBall

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
Unless you are displaying flu syntoms, and if that's the case why aren't you staying at home, you should not be wearing a mask. A mask will prevent you from touching your face but it will also grant you a false sense of security. That's it. Right now masks are scarce and should be reserved for the ones that truly need them: medical staff and pacients.

If 100% of the population wears masks, then 100% of asymptomatic/symptomatic carriers are wearing masks, which results in significantly reduced spread of the virus, because any covering reduces viral shedding from the mouth significantly.

It's what's happening in Czechia and they've flattened their curve.
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,747
its amazing how people here are ignoring the homemade mask part of ops thread and then telling people not to wear masks. scarfs and bandana count as masks too. dont let the mask hoarding make you say stupid things
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,916
I linked this in another thread, but mask wearing was mandatory in the U.S for the Spanish flu 100 years ago.

www.theatlantic.com

How a Fragmented Country Fights a Pandemic

During the 1918 influenza crisis, public officials faced similar challenges to the ones American government is confronted with today.

While medical experts could not always agree on the steps local governments should take to prevent the spread of the flu, the most widely recommended were strict quarantines of towns and the mandatory use of face masks in public, although, as The New York Times reported on December 13, 1918, health officials in some of America's larger cities "opposed both these measures and placed great reliance on [the development of a] vaccine."

As one can well imagine, compulsory face-mask laws were hugely unpopular. News reports noted resistance in many towns across the nation. The local health officer might order it; whether the police chief would enforce it was another matter. Usually arrests were made without violence, but in one notable instance a San Francisco health officer shot three people, two of them innocent bystanders. Under the alarming headline "Refuses to Don Influenza Mask; Shot by Officer," a reporter for The Bellingham Herald described how the attempted arrest for refusal to wear a face mask led to the shooting.
 

Monkey D.

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,352
The point is not to protect yourself. It helps only a little. The point of any face covering is preventing the virus from spreading.
That makes no sense. If it doesn't protect you why would it protect others?

edit: i take back what i said. Having a mask or anything is better than nothing !
 
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Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Never saw anyone with a mask or scarf in countryside Germany or in any company I visited. People probably feel weird doing it alone. The most I saw was a woman covering her mouth with her shirt. So you are right OP, it should be mandatory because it's so easy to do and everyone has a scarf, old shirt, bandana laying around - you don't even need a medical mask. And if it's forced by authorities no one will feel weird doing it.

EDIT: My wife just told me that it's contraproductive to wear cotton mouth protection because it gets wet from your mouth/nose and then you spread the virus even more if you have it. Is that true?
 

Brannon

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,601
its amazing how people here are ignoring the homemade mask part of ops thread and then telling people not to wear masks. scarfs and bandana count as masks too. dont let the mask hoarding make you say stupid things
Pretty sure some people are being deliberately obtuse, there's no way so many people are failing to parse even the title alone by accident.
 

Nightfall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,003
Germany
Because the virus is spread through respiratory droplets when you sneeze or cough or just breathe. If you wear a mask, they don't travel onto other people.
Infection through surfaces is way more likely than infection through the air. So it wouldn't help much. As soon as you've touched an infected surface and later touch your face you're done for.
 
Oct 28, 2017
122
what your saying is basically whats the point of even trying so lets not do anything at all.
Assume that everyone around you is a carrier, keep your distance, consciously avoid touching your face, wash your hands thoroughly and frequently and if you can, stay at home. That's plenty. If in addition, you choose to cover your face with a permeable cloth of your choice, be my guest.
 

Typhon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,226
Can't see the police abusing this at all and getting a lot of minorities killed /s

"I had to shoot him, his lack of mask made me fear for my life"
 

Nightfall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,003
Germany
Just let me add this (one of hundreds of similar examples):
www.cbsnews.com

The No. 1 way to prevent coronavirus isn't wearing a face mask

Health officials have revised their guidance on face masks.
Wearing a mask is more for people already showing symptoms of coronavirus and their caregivers than for people trying to prevent it
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said it "does not recommend that people who are well wear a facemask to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19," referring to the disease caused by the new coronavirus. Rather, experts caution that putting on a face mask without proper fitting and training could actually increase your risk.

"If it's not fitted right, you're going to fumble with it," explained Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar before a House Appropriations subcommittee on Wednesday. "You're going to be touching your face, which is the No. 1 way you're going to get disease, is unclean hands touching your face."

On the other hand, if you are already coughing and showing symptoms of possible coronavirus illness, that's when wearing a mask could be helpful for protecting those around you.

"The data on the effectiveness of masks for preventing respiratory virus infections is not very clear, " explains Dr. Andrew Stanley Pekosz of Johns Hopkins' Bloomberg School of Public Health. "The best data suggests that if you are ill and showing symptoms, wearing a mask can reduce the chances that you spread the virus to others."

Cloth surgical masks are not helpful at all
The common surgical mask you might be picturing in your head will not help you at all, Pekosz said.

A type called an N95 respirator mask, if properly fitted, can block large-particle droplets that may contain germs, but the FDA warns they cannot filter out "very small particles in the air that may be transmitted by coughs [or] sneezes."

"An N95 mask is the one that is most practical," Pekosz tells CBS News. "It stops 95% of particles of a certain size. ... There is a N99 mask, which blocks 99% of particles, but that mask is difficult to wear for long periods of time because it is hard to breathe through it."

Respirator masks are more expensive. The FDA also notes they are not designed to fit children or people with facial hair.

Even a good face mask isn't enough
"Masks shouldn't be considered to be the sole item that can protect you from infection, but it can be one of several things that can help you stay uninfected," said Pekosz.

"Wash your hands frequently. Practice social distancing — stay 5 feet away from people to avoid being close enough to be exposed to respiratory droplets from that person. More specific guidance will be given by the CDC soon, but those two things should be practiced by people on a daily basis to reduce the spread of respiratory viruses."

And he adds, "Get a flu shot — influenza has killed over 16,000 Americans this year and is still causing disease across the U.S."

You have to change masks every few hours
If you do go the mask route in spite of expert advice, it's important to note that face masks have a very specific lifespan. While there are some with longer lifespans or that have replaceable filters, the most common face masks on the market are disposable and single use. Each one of those is only good for a few hours.

"You want to change masks every few hours to make sure that they are functioning properly and aren't getting contaminated with virus particles on the outside," Pekosz tells CBS News. "It's not like putting one on protects you. One has to follow specific procedures to ensure you are using them effectively."

False safety with a mask that doesn't help just makes people more careless.
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,916
Infection through surfaces is way more likely than infection through the air. So it wouldn't help much. As soon as you've touched an infected surface and later touch your face you're done for.

Again, masks are not about you, they're about protecting other people.

If your mask prevents some of those droplets from falling onto a surface that could infect others, that's a win.
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,747
Assume that everyone around you is a carrier, keep your distance, consciously avoid touching your face, wash your hands thoroughly and frequently and if you can, stay at home. That's plenty. If in addition, you choose to cover your face with a permeable cloth of your choice, be my guest.
no shit but you can always do more. so what if its permeable, it can still help even if just a little.
why the obsession with smarty pants trying to make people taking extra precautions look stupid? especially in a time like this.
 
OP
OP
DukeBlueBall

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
Just let me add this (one of hundreds of similar examples):
www.cbsnews.com

The No. 1 way to prevent coronavirus isn't wearing a face mask

Health officials have revised their guidance on face masks.


False safety with a mask that doesn't help just makes people more careless.

Now show me the examples where masks don't help prevent viral loads from being shed by carriers.

Even your examples agree with me:

On the other hand, if you are already coughing and showing symptoms of possible coronavirus illness, that's when wearing a mask could be helpful for protecting those around you.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,125
Austria just announced mandatory masks in supermarkets (normal surgical masks will be handed at the entrance) and recommended wearing them also outside of the stores.
 

Oreiller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,017
There are so few masks available in France that I can't get any, even though I'm infected. What a mess.
 

Nightfall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,003
Germany
Again, masks are not about you, they're about protecting other people.

If your mask prevents some of those droplets from falling onto a surface that could infect others, that's a win.
Now show me the examples where masks don't help prevent viral loads from being shed by carriers.

Even your examples agree with me:
This won't help the people not infected. The most important thing as non infected person is still to wash your hands and not touch your face. Even if everyone wore a mask you wouldn't stop viral loads being spread by 100%.
As soon as you take of your mask and touch your face with infected hands it's over. It's no 100% perfect solution. And it would make people carless and probably wash their hands less. Which would cancel the positive effect of the mask.

I'm not saying masks don't help and I'm also not saying don't use them., but what I fear most is that mandatory masks would make people care less about the basics like distancing and washing hands. They'd probably think 'I have a mask, I'm perfectly safe!"