So ... you're agreeing with me that movies represent a wide range of looks for men.
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Male Body Image in Modern Television and Film
- Thread starter RDreamer
- Start date
I'm guessing you don't know much about diets, fitness and looking ripped in general. The mental fortitude alone to keep doing this year round..
It seems there are people who feel it's worth discussing and from what I see evidence suggests increasing eating disorders in men. Feel free to nitpick all you want
The overabundance of super-attractive, super-fit or overly muscular men can be about as problematic to a lot of men's self-esteem/body image as the abundance of impossible beauty standards set by fashion industry's supermodels & Hollywood has demonstrably been for girls/women.
If we're talking about ALL male characters that are in movies? Sure, there's quite a lot of variety. But if we're talking about lead characters who get all the attention & spotlight? Nah. In that regards, men have more variety than women mostly in the age department (as in, women start to have a sharp decline as far as their desirability as leads for mainstream Hollywood goes as they hit their 30s or at most 40s while Liam Neeson is getting lead parts in mainstream action movies even as he's nearing his 70s), otherwise they are still very much dominated by the Chris Pratts, Evanses & Hemsworths.
The main point of your previous post, which you stated explicitly, is patently false. Now you are saying it's nitpicking for me to point that out? And now you are implying I said something I didn't, that representations of men's bodies in mainstream media isn't worth discussing.
You are either dishonest or a poor reader.
This might seem true if the only movies you are aware of are comic movies from the last few years. Otherwise, no, it is not true. Not even close.
And I guess you didnt read it, or don't care, but the post I was replying to was indeed talking about all male roles.
Those same people who are in those "comic book movies" star in a fuckton of other movies as well (from indie/smaller releases to other mainstream movies). Just out of interest, what movies do you consider mainstream movies with unattractive leads?
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OP
I don't think you can just dismiss the power and reach of comic movies, though. It's a massive part of culture now, and they dominate the box office plus merchandising and overall mindshare for a lot of impressionable people. And the stars of those movies are getting a lot of other roles, so the comic physique bleeds into a lot of other films.
That said, I didn't start the topic to say "it is a problem, the end." If you don't think it's as widespread then that's totally fine. Make that point.
In either case, show the leads that aren't stacked to hell. We can have that conversation, too! We can highlight good portrayals no matter what we think of the issue.
I think you're getting hung up on the word "only". Obviously I'm not saying it's absolute and universal, so apologies I guess for that
I stand by my sentiment in it being a problem, which you seem to as well.
Not sure the need to try and imply dishonestly or reading problems. When someone uses ACAB you understand what that means right?
Of course, the discussion here isn't "unattractive." It's "not being shown off as ridiculously ripped/beautiful." And I don't feel like typing out a list of most movies. Black Klansman comes to mind. As does Get Out. John Wick. Sicario. All of Liam Neeson's recent movies. Captain Marvel. Den of Thieves (there is a shirtless Liev Schreiber scene, but I doubt anyone was really yearning for that). The Punisher (Netflix). Heat. Hateful Eight. Etc. Etc. Etc.
You made statements about me that were just clearly not true. What would you call it?
And speaking of, you think I'm a cop? Lol.
And you're implying I'm struggling reading
No I don't think you're a cop. Christ
Lol, pretty much all of those movies have Hollywood-handsome leads (well, the ones I've seen, at least, haven't seen Sicario or Den of Thieves). Liam Neeson is still considered a hunk by a lot of people.
Just seems like you are a fairly perfect example of someone who has had Hollywood set your standards when you'd think those are the kind of movies to list when thinking of movies that don't push Hollywood-levels of handsomness, if you think most people leading those movies aren't on the handsome side of the isle.
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Wait, you're saying John David Washington, Daniel Kaluuya, Keanu Reeves, Liam Neeson, Jon Bernthal, and Samuel L Jackson are all unattractive?
Keanu, Liam, and S Jackson are all three older action stars and likely still get billing because they were established long ago. And they're still very attractive.
Blakkklansman and Get Out leads are played by pretty attractive men. And their box office really can't be compared to most comic movies nowadays, too.
This example list really shows the skew. If those are unattractive then the bar is ridiculously high and thus the only actually attractive leads probably are the comic movie heroes.
It's also important to note that there is extra prep done for male topless scenes as well, like dehydration to accentuate the musculature.
Yep but keep in mind that we are seeing them at or near their best, some don't stay in that kind of shape if they are not shooting. Also, maybe more importantly they still have self discipline and are putting in the work.
I said explicitly that I wasn't saying they are unattractive.
Again, "are they attractive" is not the discussion. The discussion is "are they represented as being insanely ripped/hot," as per the OP. Please cite a scene from one of those movies that does that--except the "sorta one" I have already referenced.
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User banned (1 day): trolling, repeatedly misrepresenting other posters' arguments
Oh, so you were just implying I'm a bastard. Got it.
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Sorry I missed that since your initial assertion and then the question was about unattractive leads.
My initial assertion was not about being generally attractive. I've said this repeatedly.
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Edited to add quote
We need a threadmark/read OP message because seems like people won't stop coming in and being like
"The guy in the OP isn't that ripped"
"You can get ripped it's easy"
Everyone please stop doing that
I love this thread.
It started about characters in media being ripped or swole regardless what character they are playing. They casted Henry Cavill as Sherlock Holmes, a depressed opium addict haha.
Let's turn that on it's head, they are looking for someone to play Superman, they cast someone who is obese and out of shape, people would be really pissed off. Casting ripped dudes in roles is totally fine, but casting people who spends hours in the gym as alcohlics or down trodden people who never would be spending time in a gym or exercising is illogical.
Now it's about how easy or how to become ripped haha.
It started about characters in media being ripped or swole regardless what character they are playing. They casted Henry Cavill as Sherlock Holmes, a depressed opium addict haha.
Let's turn that on it's head, they are looking for someone to play Superman, they cast someone who is obese and out of shape, people would be really pissed off. Casting ripped dudes in roles is totally fine, but casting people who spends hours in the gym as alcohlics or down trodden people who never would be spending time in a gym or exercising is illogical.
Now it's about how easy or how to become ripped haha.
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I was referring to this:
As attractive as Keanu Reeves may be, I don't think he fits the topic of too buff/cut.
The problem is that if men are shown half naked in blockbuster movies, they don't look like that. At least not when they are shown in a positive light.
I think the discussion won't be productive if we mix "generally attractive" and "peak physique" as if those are the same. That's also not what the OP was getting at.
The problem is that if men are shown half naked in blockbuster movies, they don't look like that. At least not when they are shown in a positive light.
I think the discussion won't be productive if we mix "generally attractive" and "peak physique" as if those are the same. That's also not what the OP was getting at.
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....no?....
I'm saying that ACAB doesn't suggest that every single cop without fail is a bastard. Just that in the way the system is built, the general rule of thumb, and those also in the service are complicit in, the bastardness of cops.
Mate, stop reading shit that isn't there
Is anyone else having trouble reading my meaning? I don't feel I'm being particularly hard to understand here, but I accept I know what I'm trying to say so it's easier for me to read my meaning.
As attractive as Keanu Reeves may be, I don't think he fits the topic of too buff/cut.
The problem is that if men are shown half naked in blockbuster movies, they don't look like that. At least mit when they are shown in a positive light.
I think the discussion won't be productive if we mix "generally attractive" and "peak physique" as if those are the same. That's also not what the OP was getting at.
Yeah, exactly. The point is differentiating "general attractiveness" from the one ideal of being super muscular dehydrated guys. There's more than one way to be attractive.
You referenced calling people like me bastards. It's right in your post.
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As attractive as Keanu Reeves may be, I don't think he fits the topic of too buff/cut.
The problem is that if men are shown half naked in blockbuster movies, they don't look like that. At least mit when they are shown in a positive light.
I think the discussion won't be productive if we mix "generally attractive" and "peak physique" as if those are the same. That's also not what the OP was getting at.
Keanu's an excellent example of a fit, attractive man who's not crazy ripped or anything like that.
It's more in respone to those who can't believe certain body transformations happening in a natural way.
Where? I was using the phenomenon/example of people using the term ACAB to describe cops as a parallel to how I was referring to the ubiquity of beauty standards/musculature in media and my use of "only" - in that I was admittedly making a sweeping sentiment that should not be seen as an absolute as you seemed to be interpreting it
My apologies if the sentence structure threw you off, it wasn't my intention
Look, it's not that hard. All you need to do is lift weights six days a week, stop drinking alcohol, don't eat anything after 7pm, don't eat any carbs or sugar at all, in fact just don't eat anything you like, get the personal trainer from Magic Mike, sleep nine hours a night, run three miles a day, and have a studio pay for the whole thing over a six to seven month span. I don't know why everyone's not doing this. It's a super realistic lifestyle and an appropriate body image to compare oneself to.
Hey, can we get a ban for people who come into threads about body dysmorphia and make disgusting comments about feeling happy that "parity" has been reached?
controversial opinion. i think the obscene fitness standards that we've acquired from hollywood are kind of nice.
the downside is that it makes a lot of people feel kind of down about their bodies.
the upside is that the people who work at their bodies are revered and respected more than they would be if these hyper fit body standards weren't as prevelant and important as they are today.
i think it's cool that people who don't have the most classically attractive faces can make up for it with a stunning physique, and that wouldnt be as true if mainstream media embraced more normalized physiques.
the downside is that it makes a lot of people feel kind of down about their bodies.
the upside is that the people who work at their bodies are revered and respected more than they would be if these hyper fit body standards weren't as prevelant and important as they are today.
i think it's cool that people who don't have the most classically attractive faces can make up for it with a stunning physique, and that wouldnt be as true if mainstream media embraced more normalized physiques.
I don't think this is really true, especially because nearly everyone in Hollywood is traditionally handsome on top of being ripped. And at any rate, why should we reward a really small number of people at the expense of everyone else? Is their happiness so great that it makes up for the misery of everyone else?
Wouldn't it just be better if attractiveness, of all kinds, mattered a bit less, or at the very least there was room for more people to be valued and respected?
I would say that isn't a safe assumption.
Androgens do a great job at burning fat. Especially belly fat. In fact, the first visible sign of low testosterone isn't losing muscle. It's gaining fat. If you add that to having trainers, chefs and nutritionists at your call you have a massive advantage over the general population. Looking like the person in the OP wouldn't require much more than sticking to the meal plan and maybe 5 hours in the gym a week.
However, looking like Wolverine is a completely different ball game. That level of body fat is too physically and mentally taxing to maintain.
i like that if you're willing to put in a lot of effort, time, and money, you can attain an esspecially attractive physique to mitigate being physically unattractive otherwise. i think having that door open to the few people who take advantage of it does offset the downsides of unrealistic beauty standards on the general populace. the current beauty standards also encourage healthier habits to some extent (though in rarer cases, also unhealthy habits).
I still feel like this isn't worth everyone's misery. Everyone would undoubtedly be happier if they weren't constantly being compared to an unrealistic standard, and the fact that some people can attain it doesn't make it ok/good. It's unfortunate that people are additionally being judged based on their facial/etc. attractiveness, but honestly I don't think there are lots of people out there who are really that traditionally unattractive but feel totally happy and at ease because they're jacked. Plus, all of this is ignoring the fact that it's not the case that everyone has the genes, time, money, or disposition to attain this standard, and so therefore some people will be punished no matter what and there's nothing they can do about it.
Do you also feel like it's ok for billionaires to have such a ridiculous amount of money and not be taxed at the expense of a lot of poverty? That seems like an exactly analogous situation in which one small group of people is hoarding a lot of resources, often unfairly, at the expense of everyone else, and I feel like, despite the supply-side economics bros, the general consensus is that this is not a great situation.
You are kind of discounting the thousands of people who suffer from depression due to their weight and cannot muster the effort due to it, the time because they have to work 2+ jobs just to make ends meet and the money because they barely scrape by on rent. What you think is encouraging healthier habits is actually demoralizing and demotivating for a significant enough portion of the population. Especially since it's skewing beauty standards and perceived dating standards (whether its true or not isn't the point).
It also pretty directly helps creates incels, since men who feel hopeless are more likely to fall in line with that ideology.
EDIT: It's also toxic masculinity because the "you just have to do it!" attitude of some people completely discounts mental health factors that inhibit people from "just doing it". So your line of thinking is actually at the root cause of a lot of bad attitudes.
What an understatement. I guess I feel kind of down about the rampant police brutality and racism against black people. It just kind of sucks that kids are being ripped out of their parent's arms and locked in cages. It's kind of a shame that people are driven to suicide because they feel like they will never be good enough or strong enough, because everyone just naturally looks like they spend 3 hours a day in the gym in media.
OP's photo isn't so far fetched. A lot of looking good is diet. Exercise is important, but diet is crucial to maintaining.
Except that actor maintains his body with way more than just diet.
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Sure, a good diet, some exercise, good sleep, refraining from alcohol and smoking, and good mental health.... all things the character in that show completely and utterly lacks.