Male Body Image in Modern Television and Film

GC-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,505
These things don’t come about in a vacuum and their effects aren’t immediate. There are a lot of people who are ridiculously fit that may feel inadequate simply because this hyper unrealistic version of being fit is what’s pushed.
This is a very good point. The perception of what is ‘fit’ has become incredibly warped. I don’t do social media or really give a shit about Hollywood movies, I’ve been active in some form of fitness thing or another for about a decade and the realities about what is fit and what isn’t are completely misaligned. Maybe this is due to the two factors above, I don’t know but the imbalance is there regardless of the cause. Not just what looks fit but also what is actually achievable by people within a reasonable time frame and adequate effort. Also what are the realities of PED’s and how easy people are to jump on labelling people being users of them.

Talking with a friend recently who’s only form of exercise is likely wanking i was really shocked to hear some of his responses about other people, specifically another friend. The other friend is possibly one of the fittest people I have ever met and has an extremely good body and all he could say was “he’s not 5%”, “he’s not baki”, the second I had no idea what that meant but checking it out I wanted to give him a hard slap at how silly that comment was.

You just have to look how people called your example “skinny” to see how warped it has become.
 

Flousn

Member
Jan 16, 2018
555
Movie stars are enhanced(PEDS), they don't just get that jacked in 3 months without assistance. It takes years of dedication to look like them naturally so yes, I do think it can cause unrealistic expectations in people but why is this so serious that you have to curse about it?

The reason it takes so long for most and is a huge struggle begins in childhood. Parents pass down bad habits and have no knowledge of how nutrition works. Trainers and dieticians are not needed. Just basic calorie counting and learning better habits over time.
Exactly, and the topic is precisely about the impression that these types of bodies are starting to be so prevalent in media that they warp the idea of a "healthy" and "fit" male body.
No one here wants to argue that being buff and ripped is per se unobtainable or not manageable with a normal life, but it takes a certain mindset and a real desire to look like that. A desire that goes beyond wanting to be fit and healthy in general.
If you work out 3 days a week and don´t overeat, you already are above the norm and i would argue that this regimen will only get you a superhero body if you work out in a very specific and dedicated way that achieves this look in particular. And that kind of routine is simply not (and does not need to be) for everybody.

I go running 3 times a week, do martial arts on tournament level 2 times a week and eat as healthy as i can while still eating what i generally want to eat, yet i look no where near as ripped and muscular as even the guy in the OP (who is small compared to people like Thor Hemsworth). Because i have absolutely no interest in going to a gym and i hate lifting weights. Yet, i feel extremely healthy and fit, especially compared to a lot of my co-workers and friends.
It´s not about not being able to go lifting weights and achieving a certain physique, but that the body you get form this specific kind of workout is not the only type of a fit&healthy (and attractive) body people can and should realistically go for.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,972
Motivation is always my issue. I'm just lazy. A better body is clearly within my grasp, but I like eating junk and I like lazing about playing games or watching telly. I have ample time to get to a gym, I could easily go for a run for half an hour after work, I can cycle work. I do get some exercise but that's entirely countered by my terrible diet.

I fundamentally don't want to put the effort in at the moment.
 

Hjod

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,003
Behind my desk.
This is a very good point. The perception of what is ‘fit’ has become incredibly warped. I don’t do social media or really give a shit about Hollywood movies, I’ve been active in some form of fitness thing or another for about a decade and the realities about what is fit and what isn’t are completely misaligned. Maybe this is due to the two factors above, I don’t know but the imbalance is there regardless of the cause. Not just what looks fit but also what is actually achievable by people within a reasonable time frame and adequate effort. Also what are the realities of PED’s and how easy people are to jump on labelling people being users of them.

Talking with a friend recently who’s only form of exercise is likely wanking i was really shocked to hear some of his responses about other people, specifically another friend. The other friend is possibly one of the fittest people I have ever met and has an extremely good body and all he could say was “he’s not 5%”, “he’s not baki”, the second I had no idea what that meant but checking it out I wanted to give him a hard slap at how silly that comment was.

You just have to look how people called your example “skinny” to see how warped it has become.
This is a good point.

My fiancees brother is in the military, special forces and he is the most fit person I know. He runs 10kms in under 40 minutes. When he goes running he goes for 15km or 20km. That's his standard run. He is in no way close to Helmsworth or The Rock in muscles or size. But his fitness is in the 1% but he looks like a regular dude.
 

ZackieChan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,593
I've lifted for going on 20 years and I love full body routines 5-6 times a week. I choose 2 leg exercises and 3-4 upper body movements and do 3-4 sets of each. At my level, I have to do drop sets or myoreps to really tear the muscle if I want to improve at all. It happens at a snails pace but I love it so whatever.
Avatar quote
Do you even lift bro
 

DvdGzz

Member
Mar 21, 2018
956
I curse. It’s what I do. It’s a bad habit. I need to cut down on it but it feels so fucking right most of the time. Pay no mind.

It’s serious because body image issues can lead to major depression. Or add to that. It’s serious because that can also start in childhood. People’s self worth can be tied up heavily in that sort of thing. And those trying to break into the industry because they love acting feel pressure to basically become gym rats, too. Or take PEDs. How is this not serious?

And yes you can become fit with basic calorie counting. You can be healthy with good eating and basic exercise. You’re not going to turn out like Theroux, Mamoa, or Helmsworth just by fucking chance though. Days on, days off, calorie counting, macros, proper form, cycling the right exercises, etc all go into that. It’s beyond even enthusiast level. And even then as we’ve said they’re likely not drinking for days and doing other things to enhance those few minutes on screen.

Personally I exercise a lot. Like a lot a lot. I’m ridiculously fit. But the only way I can fit things in is basically in between or during other shit. I bike a lot because I can do it while I work. I do body exercises like pushups, pull-ups, bicep curls, and crunches when I’m done in the bathroom or thinking for a few minutes or while my wife is nursing the baby. I simply cannot plan out exercise routines and lifts that all go together correctly to get to the state some of these actors are in. And that should be fine because as I said I’m fit as hell. But why doesn’t television show healthy and fit in other forms?
What do you mean by that last sentence? Looking like you can do something will always trump just being able to do it. Hollywood will always be about what is aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Some muscle definition and a low body fat is what they want.
 

DvdGzz

Member
Mar 21, 2018
956
This is a good point.

My fiancees brother is in the military, special forces and he is the most fit person I know. He runs 10kms in under 40 minutes. When he goes running he goes for 15km or 20km. That's his standard run. He is in no way close to Helmsworth or The Rock in muscles or size. But his fitness is in the 1% but he looks like a regular dude.
Great cardio endurance is never going to make you muscular. Take a sprinter vs. an endurance runner in the Olympics. Their bodies are vastly different in muscularity.
 
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RDreamer

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,408
What do you mean by that last sentence? Looking like you can do something will always trump just being able to do it. Hollywood will always be about what is aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Some muscle definition and a low body fat is what they want.
I mean there are a lot of body types that are very healthy. There are also a lot of body types that are aesthetically pleasing to the eye. But they seem to mostly show one. It’s a specific one and it doesn’t make sense for a lot of roles, too.

And what is aesthetically pleasing has changed. Yes it’ll always being pleasing but what that means is brought about socially. Look at super hero and action hero body types in the 70s and 80s and look now. Did Hollywood change to be aesthetically pleasing now? No they’ve always been, but pressure keeps ramping up.
 
Nov 17, 2017
6,186
Nobody here is arguing that going to the gym 3 or more times a week is the norm.

We’re saying you can go to the gym 3 or more times a week if you have a regular ass lifestyle (full-time job, rich social life, some kids) outside of that.

We never even said it was easy, we just said it was wholly compatible with an average lifestyle. And it is. Claiming otherwise is being dishonest and isn’t actually helping anyone.

Being fit should always be solely about what makes you feel good in your body, which shouldn’t be skewed by what the outside world is telling you you should look like.

I’m well aware my genes as far as fitness goes are sitting well north of the vast majority of the population, as I’ve stated here many times. Nobody should be modeling their fitness goals after my own because I’m almost guaranteed to be able to get further, faster than they are.

And still, I struggle with body image. It never really stops for anybody, which is a testament to how unhealthily programmed we are to reach an ideal that almost nobody needs to be at to be happy.

That conversation should be completely divorced from the reality that being fit as hell still isn’t some unattainable barrier for most people. Me saying “you shouldn’t assume you couldn’t reach that goal with the right diet and training” is not me passing judgement on anyone who could, but doesn’t care enough to. Most people don’t care enough to reach “Marvel hero” status, including a large percentage of said heroes who just do it because it’s part of their job description.

We’ve all got our priorities, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with someone prioritizing other aspects of their lives over looking like Thor.
So if you understand that people have body image issues, why is your first reaction “wow you guys have this much trouble? It’s just so easy for me to be fit 🤷‍♂️

I’m talking about the complete lack of empathy coming from other men when it comes to male body image. The urge to humble brag about your body, how easily buff you are or spout off technical terms like you’re a personal trainer when we’re dealing with people that feel disgusting in their own skin. Showing off your Instagram ready body to people who are struggling with accepting their own. The tendency for us to see body dysmorphia from a position of cold logic instead of what it truly is, a psychological issue. It’s the toxic masculinity of it all, pushing this idea that if you do X, Y and Z to obtain this one type of body, you will be happier and better as a person.

And I know you will probably deny having said that. The point is that is what you reinforce, intentionally or not, when you ignore the emotional component of body image and instead immediately lecture people on how to get that hot bod. Or how hitting the gym 3+ times a week is so average anyone and everyone could and should be doing it easily. Because when someone says they hate their body because they’re not buff enough and your response is how to get that body, you may think you’re helping them achieve that body type and helping them but truly you are only reinforcing the idea that body type should be achieved, that those people should feel bad about not being that fit and that they need to put in the work to get it.

It’s not about it being some unobtainable barrier. It’s about changing the public perception til a point where buff, ripped and chiseled is only “average.” And if you don’t have huge cut muscles but are otherwise in shape, you are “below average.” What is average to people is consistently shifting up because of media and the pressure is mounting. The time and effort to get that body is being downplayed, the expectation of having that body is being pushed. We have movie stars playing roles where guys who dont do anything special are buff and a culture of instagram influencers who make money off of promoting their idealic life as tied to their physique. People don’t know what skinny is anymore. They think Dad bods is anything not perfectly cut with low body fat. They’ll look at a pretty buff guy and think he’s small or “normal” because he isn’t the Rock or something. It’s a cultural mindset that hurts people. If you really have body image issues you should understand this and where people are coming from.
 
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Hjod

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,003
Behind my desk.
Great cardio endurance is never going to make you muscular. Take a sprinter vs. an endurance runner in the Olympics. Their bodies are vastly different in muscularity.
I know, that's not the point I was trying to make. My point is that fitness or the thing movies portrait as being fit isn't really being fit.

How fit is the Rock? He's strong, sure but how "healthy" is he really?
 
Nov 17, 2017
6,186
Great cardio endurance is never going to make you muscular. Take a sprinter vs. an endurance runner in the Olympics. Their bodies are vastly different in muscularity.
You’re missing the point. The guy in that example is healthy. Many people feel that unless you have that muscular physique you are not healthy. That’s the problem. The goal doesn’t always need to be muscular, it should only be healthy and that can take many forms yet one is push disproportionately over all others as the most common and average. Your response is totally tone death to the topic at hand. We should be telling people they don’t need to look like they’re training to compete in a physique show to be fit and healthy or to have self worth in their own body. But instead we just want to talk on and on about how buff we are, how we got buff and the best ways to get buff.
 

DvdGzz

Member
Mar 21, 2018
956
I know, that's not the point I was trying to make. My point is that fitness or the thing movies portrait as being fit isn't really being fit.

How fit is the Rock? He's strong, sure but how "healthy" is he really?
The guy in the OP looks really fit. The Rock is on drugs so I doubt he is anywhere near as healthy. The Rock is a huge exception. There are very few movie stars who look like him.

You’re missing the point. The guy in that example is healthy. Many people feel that unless you have that muscular physique you are not healthy. That’s the problem. The goal doesn’t always need to be muscular, it should only be healthy and that can take many forms yet one is push disproportionately over all others as the most common and average. Your response is totally tone death to the topic at hand. We should be telling people they don’t need to look like they’re training to compete in a physique show to be fit and healthy or to have self worth in their own body. But instead we just want to talk on and on about how buff we are.
I think most people know that as long as you're not at a high body fat level and are close to a healthy BMI and you're active, you're pretty healthy. I'd say a very few percentage of people think you need to be ripped to be healthy. I just don't see the problem with wanting to look like some of these actors. It's not a bad thing to strive for.
 

aSniperJones

Member
Oct 26, 2017
187
District of Columbia
that [a healthy body] can take many forms yet one is push disproportionately over all others as the most common and average.
I agree with this.

The entertainment industry as the de-facto health aesthetic standard is a problem. The entertainment is an aesthetics driven industry, even outside of the actors; cinematics are of the utmost importance, often sets are overly pristine and/or exaggerated.

If you look at Tennis, American Football, Boxing, Basketball, Cricket, Baseball, etc.. you'll see healthy bodies of many shapes and sizes. The professional sports industry would be a better de-facto.
 

Euler007

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,132
Maybe it's just me, but I was really struck by Avengers:Endgame. I found most male actors incredibly underweight, especially Robert Downey Jr and the dude that plays Winter Soldier. Near the end of the movie there's a scene where you see all the characters from the front and Winter Solider is next to Scarlett Johanson. Scarlett looks perfect (as always), with a healthy muscle mass and body fat percentage. Winter solider looks famished next to her, his shoulders and upper body mass seem smaller than hers.
Maybe my perception is warped from working in construction and spending a lot of time in muscle gyms where people are chasing PRs (just 1-2 serious builders that cut for competitions), but man the actors in that movie looked small (and of course had superhuman strength). The only people I know with similar body fat are boxers that have to make weight and guys that I know are continuously starving themselves.
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
So if you understand that people have body image issues, why is your first reaction “wow you guys have this much trouble? It’s just so easy for me to be fit 🤷‍♂️

I’m talking about the complete lack of empathy coming from other men when it comes to male body image. The urge to humble brag about your body, how easily buff you are or spout off technical terms like you’re a personal trainer when we’re dealing with people that feel disgusting in their own skin. Showing off your Instagram ready body to people who are struggling with accepting their own. The tendency for us to see body dysmorphia from a position of cold logic instead of what it truly is, a psychological issue. It’s the toxic masculinity of it all, pushing this idea that if you do X, Y and Z to obtain this one type of body, you will be happier and better as a person.

And I know you will probably deny having said that.
The point is that is what you reinforce, intentionally or not, when you ignore the emotional component of body image and instead immediately lecture people on how to get that hot bod. Or how hitting the gym 3+ times a week is so average anyone and everyone could and should be doing it easily. Because when someone says they hate their body because they’re not buff enough and your response is how to get that body, you may think you’re helping them achieve that body type and helping them but truly you are only reinforcing the idea that body type should be achieved, that those people should feel bad about not being that fit and that they need to put in the work to get it.

It’s not about it being some unobtainable barrier. It’s about changing the public perception til a point where buff, ripped and chiseled is only “average.” And if you don’t have huge cut muscles but are otherwise in shape, you are “below average.” What is average to people is consistently shifting up because of media and the pressure is mounting. The time and effort to get that body is being downplayed, the expectation of having that body is being pushed. We have movie stars playing roles where guys who dont do anything special are buff and a culture of instagram influencers who make money off of promoting their idealic life as tied to their physique. People don’t know what skinny is anymore. They think Dad bods is anything not perfectly cut with low body fat. They’ll look at a pretty buff guy and think he’s small or “normal” because he isn’t the Rock or something. It’s a cultural mindset that hurts people. If you really have body image issues you should understand this and where people are coming from.
Because it’s my experience, as someone who still struggles with his own body image. Is this thread just for people of a certain body type, or is it a space to share our own experiences with our body image issues? I didn’t call myself the runt of my family in that post for shits and giggles.

As for denying having said “that”, what is the “that” you’re referring to? Because I definitely never said anyone would be happier or better with X body, which is what it sounds like you’re claiming in the bolded. People have to find where they’re going to be most happy and be comfortable with staying around that area. It’s gonna vary for different people. If you’re gonna claim I said that, I’m gonna ask you for proof.

Offering advice to someone who wants to be more fit isn’t reinforcing that they have to be fit (certainly not as fit as a Hollywood actor), especially if you stress (as I have, many times) that nobody needs that shit to feel happy or fulfilled, or to even be healthy. Quite the contrary, many people drive themselves to deeply unhappy and unhealthy places in their journey to looking like Hercules, which is the reason this thread exists.

Nobody claimed hitting the gym 3+ times a week was the average, or easy. I said hitting the gym that many times a week is totally compatible with an average lifestyle. Because it is. Stop twisting that point up, because you’re just trying to make it sound like I said something that I didn’t.

And dude dropping his IG pic didn’t strike me as humble bragging. Quite the contrary, someone tried to call him out as a liar when he pointed out you can have a regular lifestyle and still achieve certain results after a time, and he showed his own results. Those persons recanted and gave him his props.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,475
I feel like this thread is reaffirming that I have odd genetics (even being the clear runt in my family height/weight/athletics-wise), because I’ve never had to really struggle to look like some of these bodies y’all are claiming are actually just unhealthy idealizations.

I get we all have different shapes, but damn...
I don't know why it takes this thread to realize that. Do all of your friends look like you? If not, it should have been clear that looking like some of these pictures isn't easy if the people around you aren't easily looking like that, either. lol
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
I don't know why it takes this thread to realize that. Do all of your friends look like you? If not, it should have been clear that looking like some of these pictures isn't easy if the people around you aren't easily looking like that, either. lol
Most of them do. Some of them I consider to be even more fit than I am (but I tend to see myself as less fit than I probably am, as I’ve explained). And as I’ve said a few times here, I’m one of the runtier men in my family (even among a lot of the women, height-wise). I’m much taller than average, but when you grow up shorter than most everyone in your family, it can fuck up your perspective of things, especially as an athlete. Add in that my metabolism will likely never slow down much and that I have issues with missing meals when I’m depressed (ie, every day, damn near), and you’ve got a guy who tends to be “underweight” (relative to where I want to be, anyways; I don’t know what weight is considered average at 6’2), which I fucking hate and struggle with all the time. It’s the opposite issue of most Americans since apparently most of us are overweight, but it is an issue a lot of people struggle with.

As far as people outside of my social circle (ie “everybody else”), I don’t tend to imagine what people look like without their everyday clothes on, so aside from the obviously obese/extremely skinny people, I have no idea what most people look like. I just know my friends, my family, and the people I see when I’m out running or at the gym (as they’re typically wearing clothing that accentuates their own figures). Which is where the Hollywood ideal can (and does) really mess people up, myself included.

I’m fully aware that I have a fucked up skew.
 
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RDreamer

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,408
Dude, you look FANTASTIC. Ignore the few shit talkers here, you should be super proud. It's clear you put effort and temperance into your dieting and working out and it shows. I'm jealous. Not the bitter kind though. Just the mild kind.
The ‘shit talking’ mostly amounted to people saying he’s downplaying his own hard work and dedication though. No ones saying he doesn’t look good or shouldn’t be proud or whatever.
 

Masquerader

Member
Nov 4, 2017
598
The ‘shit talking’ mostly amounted to people saying he’s downplaying his own hard work and dedication though. No ones saying he doesn’t look good or shouldn’t be proud or whatever.
That is shit talking IMO. The man can describe his approach to fitness using whatever terminology he wants. If he wants to understate his fitness, he's hardly providing any unrealistic male body representation... More likely that people are looking into it wayyy too deep into his words.
 
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RDreamer

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,408
That is shit talking IMO. The man can describe his approach to fitness using whatever terminology he wants. If he wants to understate his fitness, he's hardly providing any unrealistic male body representation... More likely that people are looking into it wayyy too deep into his words.
Where he used that terminology is important though. In the fitness thread? Sure. Here? Come on.

Like hopping into a thread about poverty or financial struggle and talking about how easy it was to buy your jet.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,475
Most of them do. Some of them I consider to be even more fit than I am (but I tend to see myself as less fit than I probably am, as I’ve explained). And as I’ve said a few times here, I’m one of the runtier men in my family (even among a lot of the women, height-wise). I’m much taller than average, but when you grow up shorter than most everyone in your family, it can fuck up your perspective of things, especially as an athlete. Add in that my metabolism will likely never slow down much and that I have issues with missing meals when I’m depressed (ie, every day, damn near), and you’ve got a guy who tends to be “underweight” (relative to where I want to be, anyways; I don’t know what weight is considered average at 6’2), which I fucking hate and struggle with all the time. It’s the opposite issue of most Americans since apparently most of us are overweight, but it is an issue a lot of people struggle with.

As far as people outside of my social circle (ie “everybody else”), I don’t tend to imagine what people look like without their everyday clothes on, so aside from the obviously obese/extremely skinny people, I have no idea what most people look like. I just know my friends, my family, and the people I see when I’m out running or at the gym (as they’re typically wearing clothing that accentuates their own figures). Which is where the Hollywood ideal can (and does) really mess people up, myself included.

I’m fully aware that I have a fucked up skew.
I was only speaking from the perspective of someone who's worked out for years and has swung back and forth with weight gain. Still, I'm in the best shape of my life, but that's going to the gym three times a week, and I still feel like I have room for improvement. But I know my perception is warped because everyone says I'm slim and fit yet the small layer of abdomen fat around my midsection makes me feel enormous, and it isn't a healthy thought. I went from being very overweight many years ago to what I am today, but I still haven't gotten rid of the toxic scrutiny I have of myself.
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Is this why shirtless men always look so pissed off in movies? lol
It really is ridiculously demanding to build their bodies up and maintain them for months of shoots.

I both envy and don’t envy them.

RDreamer We need a poll asking guys if they are comfortable/confident enough to take their shirt off in public or whatever.
Even that’s skewed based on body image issues.

I can take my shirt off in public, but I’m not comfortable or confident in doing so. Rationally, I should probably know I look fine, but the mind believes what the mind believes, so I just end up feeling like an unattractive, scrawny nerd and not enjoying myself at all.

There’s more at play there (general confidence issues and extreme anxiety/introversion), but, yeah.

I was only speaking from the perspective of someone who's worked out for years and has swung back and forth with weight gain. Still, I'm in the best shape of my life, but that's going to the gym three times a week, and I still feel like I have room for improvement. But I know my perception is warped because everyone says I'm slim and fit yet the small layer of abdomen fat around my midsection makes me feel enormous, and it isn't a healthy thought. I went from being very overweight many years ago to what I am today, but I still haven't gotten rid of the toxic scrutiny I have of myself.
Lol I’m in a similar situation. I can be ridiculously pouty about the near non-existent amount of fat my stomach has. Which is dumb when you realize how much time I spend obsessing over not being able to gain/keep weight as much as I’d like.
 
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Maxximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
181
Gotcha. I always read that for beginners who are just working out a few days a week, a full body routine is best. But I’m no pro!
Full body is the best and most malleable routine for beginners. The best thing about it is that if for whatever reason you have to skip a training day it's no big deal like it would be training upper/lower or even more specialized. Full body with 5x5 for big compound movements(once the proper technique has been mastered) is soooo rewarding.
 

GC-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,505
(relative to where I want to be, anyways; I don’t know what weight is considered average at 6’2).
A healthy bmi for that is 65kg to 85kg at an average of 18-24%. That’s not fit levels but that is healthy and not at risk from weight related health issues.

If you are sub 15% and over 75kg you are looking very good to anyone that’s not got a strange body image outlook. You are looking amazing at 90kg and body builders beginner ideals around 110kg - 120kg, anything over that and you are beast mode.

Fitness levels are based on other things like VO2 max, resting and high intensity heart rate, etc.
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
A healthy bmi for that is 65kg to 85kg at an average of 18-24%. That’s not fit levels but that is healthy and not at risk from weight related health issues.

If you are sub 15% and over 75kg you are looking very good to anyone that’s not got a strange body image outlook. You are looking amazing at 90kg and body builders beginner ideals around 110kg - 120kg, anything over that and you are beast mode.

Fitness levels are based on other things like VO2 max, resting and high intensity heart rate, etc.
Man, I’m American, kg don’t mean anything to me 😭

But thanks for the info, I can always convert later.
 
Nov 17, 2017
6,186
I think most people know that as long as you're not at a high body fat level and are close to a healthy BMI and you're active, you're pretty healthy. I'd say a very few percentage of people think you need to be ripped to be healthy. I just don't see the problem with wanting to look like some of these actors. It's not a bad thing to strive for.
You would be surprised. I mean, the whole reason this thread got bumped was because of that post where people were saying Jason Mamoa had a dad bod. The perception of what is "average" has been warped and skewed to be above what is the actual average in reality. The higher that perception of normal is raised, the more inadequate truly average people feel when they absolutely should not. It's far more prevalent than you think and I think it will get worse with how Hollywood and instagram influencer culture promotes this one type of body.

It's not a bad thing to strive for a ripped body type. What matters is the motivation and when it comes from a position of self-hate then yes it is completely wrong and unhealthy.


As for denying having said “that”, what is the “that” you’re referring to? Because I definitely never said anyone would be happier or better with X body, which is what it sounds like you’re claiming in the bolded. People have to find where they’re going to be most happy and be comfortable with staying around that area. It’s gonna vary for different people. If you’re gonna claim I said that, I’m gonna ask you for proof.

Offering advice to someone who wants to be more fit isn’t reinforcing that they have to be fit (certainly not as fit as a Hollywood actor), especially if you stress (as I have, many times) that nobody needs that shit to feel happy or fulfilled, or to even be healthy. Quite the contrary, many people drive themselves to deeply unhappy and unhealthy places in their journey to looking like Hercules, which is the reason this thread exists.
You need to reread what I wrote. I did not say that you said those things about needing to have a buff, toned body to be happy or better as a person. What I said is that the way you chose to enter this topic reinforced that mindset even if you did not intend for it to be that way. Look at it this way; say you have a friend who confides in you about the insecurity they have with their body. They think they're too fat or too scrawny or whatever. Either way they're pretty upset about it. Do you:

A: Tell them you've never had a problem being fit

B: Explain your workout regimen in great detail

C:Try to comfort them and explain that there's nothing wrong with their body and it doesn't define their worth

If you picked A and/or B, you're being tone death and a bad friend by ignoring the emotional struggle they are going through. Not that you can't give your friend advice for getting more fit if that's what they want but there's a time and place for everything. Fitness advice can always come later but chasing these body types with the mindset that you're fixing yourself or improving your worth as a person is not healthy.

You said it's not reinforcing that you have to be ripped by just giving advice to people who "want to be more fit." The simple desire to be more fit is NOT body dysmorphia. It's shame and hatred of your own body for not being whatever ideal is in your head. When you tell someone with this mindset that you just have to do this workout and X, Y, Z to get that body without addressing the emotional component where they feel lesser because of their body, you are inadvertently saying "yes, you're right about your body. You have to get that ideal body to be better and happy." A person has to learn to accept themselves before they can chase these body goals because otherwise they will hold on to that toxic view of themselves even as they workout and get more fit. The guy lifting weights will always see himself as not big enough, not toned enough, etc. It will be tied to his ego and self worth in an endless cycle. You said it yourself that people suffer from this mindset. Where do you think that starts?

I think you clearly understand the problem, you do have an understanding of body image issues. I think our disagreement is how we approach these issues. My whole point is that there is a completely lack of empathy and sensitivity going around in this thread. It feels like such a typical thing for us as men to gloss over the emotional aspect of body image issues and jump straight into fitness science and bragging about our own physique. Fitness science is so readily available out there especially with how big "fitstagram" culture has become. People with body image issues know this stuff is out there and can easily get the info if they want. Detailing out your fitness regimen, throwing out all these fitness terms... it's useless to that person. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to need to share how buff they are in a thread like this. It's just reading the room so poorly. So many people here have it completely backwards. That's not what people need, they need to learn to accept themselves first and foremost. It's a phycological problem that can't just be tackled head on.
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Look at it this way; say you have a friend who confides in you about the insecurity they have with their body. They think they're too fat or too scrawny or whatever. Either way they're pretty upset about it. Do you:

A: Tell them you've never had a problem being fit

B: Explain your workout regimen in great detail

C:Try to comfort them and explain that there's nothing wrong with their body and it doesn't define their worth
I comfort them and share my own issues with body image with them, which might prove to be a comfort to them. It proves no matter how fit you may or may not be, you won’t be happy with yourself if you’re just chasing some ideal instead of just being happy with being healthy and feeling good. And I absolutely offer advice if they still want to improve their fitness levels, while cautioning against unreasonable expectations.

That’s all I did here. There’s nothing tone deaf about that, and I didn’t reinforce anything. I have been all about addressing the emotional component here, but you’re choosing to ignore that because I refuse to lie about how exercising regularly isn’t impossible to do with an average personal life.
 
Nov 17, 2017
6,186
I comfort them and share my own issues with body image with them, which might prove to be a comfort to them. It proves no matter how fit you may or may not be, you won’t be happy with yourself if you’re just chasing some ideal instead of just being happy with being healthy and feeling good. And I absolutely offer advice if they still want to improve their fitness levels, while cautioning against unreasonable expectations.

That’s all I did here. There’s nothing tone deaf about that, and I didn’t reinforce anything. I have been all about addressing the emotional component here, but you’re choosing to ignore that because I refuse to lie about how exercising regularly isn’t impossible to do with an average personal life.
I never said this. I have to believe you have mixed up my points with something someone else said. Maybe OP? I never said you can't have a normal personal life and exercise regularly. It wouldn't even make sense for me to say that because I work out regularly.

I think you also have to realize that 99% of what I said wasn't accusing you specifically and I was talking about the general response to this thread from many male posters that were lacking in empathy. The only thing I mentioned that referred to something you did specifically was dropping into the thread saying something along the lines of "it's not really a struggle for me to have that body type" which is pretty tone deaf. If you had only said that to your hypothetical friend here, that would be the problem I've been highlighting. However the answer you gave just now is much better and how it should be handled.
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
I never said this. I have to believe you have mixed up my points with something someone else said. Maybe OP? I never said you can't have a normal personal life and exercise regularly. It wouldn't even make sense for me to say that because I work out regularly.

I think you also have to realize that 99% of what I said wasn't accusing you specifically and I was talking about the general response to this thread from many male posters that were lacking in empathy. The only thing I mentioned that referred to something you did specifically was dropping into the thread saying something along the lines of "it's not really a struggle for me to have that body type" which is pretty tone deaf. If you had only said that to your hypothetical friend here, that would be the problem I've been highlighting. However the answer you gave just now is much better and how it should be handled.
I’ve given that answer many times in this thread, and I qualified that initial post you keep referring to by mentioning how out of skew my perspective is due to my station within my own family.

Body image issues effect everyone, not just the people with certain body types, and my own experience with them should be ok to share here. That’s what I did.