Man City banned from Champion's League for 2 years

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,863
This won't stick.

Not to mention if they win it this year it will be a real farce.

Guardiola won't leave. He sees out his contracts.
 

Retroarnold

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,001
So does the 5th team in England get in in their place? Sheffield United in the Champions League. What a time lol
Yes. If the ban sticks then 5th placed will get it. Doesn't mean The Blades will get it. Remember, Spurs are only two points behind (with a game in hand) and Utd and Wolves are only 4 points behind also with a game in hand. Everton have played the same number of games, but are only 3 points behind.

Not only is this ban justice, but it has also made the league more exciting. Now there is a real race for 5th place to get the last Champs league spot.
 

ryodi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
655
When it's inevitably reduced what they should do is make City start from the first qualifying round for the next two seasons they qualify for the Champions League so even through they will still make it this will prevent them going on money spinning pre season tours and ruins their pre season.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,564
It won't stick, but it'll motivate Man City to call all the other big clubs who have to find cute ways to circumvent FFP and see if they want to start a Super League of European clubs that exists outside of FIFA/UEFA control.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,564
A league with like 5 teams in won't be very popular.
Liverpool
Manchester City
Manchester United
Chelsea
Arsenal (I know, I know)
Tottenham (see Arsenal)
PSG
Juventus
Inter Milan
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Atletico Madrid
Bayern Munich
Borussia Dortmund

I mean...that's a league that people would watch. It's about chasing international dollars now. The game is global. Imagine the TV rights fees that these clubs would split amongst one another.
 

DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,769
Liverpool
Manchester City
Manchester United
Chelsea
Arsenal (I know, I know)
Tottenham (see Arsenal)
PSG
Juventus
Inter Milan
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Atletico Madrid
Bayern Munich
Borussia Dortmund

I mean...that's a league that people would watch. It's about chasing international dollars now. The game is global. Imagine the TV rights fees that these clubs would split amongst one another.
All of those teams would not join a new league that has PSG and City in it able to spend without any restriction.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,564
All of those teams would not join a new league that has PSG and City in it able to spend without any restriction.
Maybe. I don't know that I'm convinced that two clubs being able to spend state money on their teams would stop them. Shit, Real Madrid did that shit in their own domestic league for literal decades before FFP came about.

I think the TV rights money and global reach (and the money to be made outside of TV from that reach) would be a bigger draw than the "state-owned clubs" issue would be a setback for the rest of those clubs, personally.
 

DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,769
Maybe. I don't know that I'm convinced that two clubs being able to spend state money on their teams would stop them. Shit, Real Madrid did that shit in their own domestic league for literal decades before FFP came about.

I think the TV rights money and global reach (and the money to be made outside of TV from that reach) would be a bigger draw than the "state-owned clubs" issue would be a setback for the rest of those clubs, personally.
Part of what makes the PL so popular worldwide is that a nobody team can play a big team and win and completely upset the apple cart.

How would anyone in this magical superleague get booted out for being shit?

It's honestly never going to happen.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,521
I know it is impossible because CBF would never hire an outsider, but I would like Pep going to manage Brazil.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,564
Part of what makes the PL so popular worldwide is that a nobody team can play a big team and win and completely upset the apple cart.

How would anyone in this magical superleague get booted out for being shit?

It's honestly never going to happen.
I mean, a closed league like the NBA is also popular worldwide.

I fully accept that it's my background as an American that makes me say this, but I don't think that pro/rel will ultimately matter; the high quality of the product matters. If the product is the best in the world, as a European Super League would very obviously be, the viewers will watch.

But again, I'm someone who grew up with closed leagues. I appreciate pro/rel, and it works for countries at the club level, but I'm not convinced that a cross-country superleague would want or need it.
 
Jan 10, 2018
4,697
I mean, a closed league like the NBA is also popular worldwide.

I fully accept that it's my background as an American that makes me say this, but I don't think that pro/rel will ultimately matter; the high quality of the product matters. If the product is the best in the world, as a European Super League would very obviously be, the viewers will watch.

But again, I'm someone who grew up with closed leagues. I appreciate pro/rel, and it works for countries at the club level, but I'm not convinced that a cross-country superleague would want or need it.
Nations League is basically that for national teams and borderline noone cares. Tradition matters a whole lot, just look at Liverpool. Didn't win anything worthwhile for a long while and still got more butts in the seat than City.
 

Gawge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
743
I mean, a closed league like the NBA is also popular worldwide.

I fully accept that it's my background as an American that makes me say this, but I don't think that pro/rel will ultimately matter; the high quality of the product matters. If the product is the best in the world, as a European Super League would very obviously be, the viewers will watch.

But again, I'm someone who grew up with closed leagues. I appreciate pro/rel, and it works for countries at the club level, but I'm not convinced that a cross-country superleague would want or need it.
I'd love to see the reaction of German fans to description of them as a product. Hell, it would probably be enough for genuinely impactful action from English clubs.

Fans of the clubs would not be willing to accept a move to a European super league. It would need to be done slowly (e.g. morphing the Champions League into a Super League). No way will fans of any major European club (with a few possible exceptions, maybe PSG) would be willing to leave their domestic league.

Of course, profit and TV revenue is king for the clubs - but nobody is going to leave the fans behind to that extent.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,564
Nations League is basically that for national teams and borderline noone cares. Tradition matters a whole lot, just look at Liverpool. Didn't win anything worthwhile for a long while and still got more butts in the seat than City.
I totally get where you're coming from, but I don't think Nations League and a club superleague are analogous, mostly because people are supporters of their own national team, but they are supporters of multiple clubs, usually one of the biggest clubs in the world. I root for USMNT and USWNT on the national level because I'm from here, but on the club level, I have a MLS side (Seattle Sounders FC), an English side (actually two, I know, I know, Newcastle United FC and Fulham FC), a Dutch side (Ajax Amsterdam), and a German side (Hertha Berlin).

My point being that worldwide, there are a ton of, say, Tottenham fans that are not from the UK and for whom that sort of tradition wouldn't have the same hold as for people who are in families that have been there locally, following the same club for generations.

I genuinely believe that these big soccer clubs will see themselves as global entities much like NBA teams do and will cater to their global audiences though the tradition is that these are local clubs that operate in their neighborhoods.

The sport is changing before my eyes, and I've only been following it for a few years. I've read enough and seen enough to see where this is going, though.

But I also think there is value to the way that things are right now; I wouldn't want pro/rel in MLS, but I love it in England and Germany, so if the current state of things is preserved, I'll be just as happy.

I'd love to see the reaction of German fans to description of them as a product. Hell, it would probably be enough for genuinely impactful action from English clubs.
By "product," I was referring to the product on the pitch itself, not the fans. I think this goes back to my point: The superclubs don't see their fanbase in the traditional way that maybe the fans do or smaller clubs that are still owned locally do. The fanbase to a Man United isn't simply the local supporters who show up to Old Trafford regularly and, while it's nice when the folks at Old Trafford offer a great atmosphere for the audience watching at home, they're consumers of the product, not part of the product. I would guess that this is much different at the vast majority of other clubs that aren't superclubs, who are often locally-owned and are distinctly clubs of their neighborhoods and towns. To me, that issue is causing a lot of the tension that I read about now among football fans, especially when their clubs are big clubs who go chase dollars in foreign lands.

Anyway, you could definitely be right, and it could be that the big clubs will have to use UEFA and the CL as a method to get a super league. *shrug* We'll see. I think the next decade will be fascinating when it comes to the big business aspect of the game.
 
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DBT85

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,769
I mean, a closed league like the NBA is also popular worldwide.

I fully accept that it's my background as an American that makes me say this, but I don't think that pro/rel will ultimately matter; the high quality of the product matters. If the product is the best in the world, as a European Super League would very obviously be, the viewers will watch.

But again, I'm someone who grew up with closed leagues. I appreciate pro/rel, and it works for countries at the club level, but I'm not convinced that a cross-country superleague would want or need it.
It may well be, but it has always been like that in the US. Just as EU football has always been open and a team from the top division can in 3 short years find themselves playing 3 tiers down because of bad management and attitude. Just as a team with the right attitude and personnel can climb the ranks and do incredibly well.

What would put the super teams off is the lack of certainty. They really really like knowing that with the current way things are, PL teams will get a fair share of a £2.3bn pot a year, La Liga teams will get whatever etc.

Football in the EU is also about local bragging rights and beating the team from literally half a mile away. In this new league United would never play Leeds again. Liverpool would never play Everton again. Arsenal would never play Spurs again or whatever. That can't happen. It literally removes what is a huge part of the sport for the fans in the persuit of yet more money for things like the expanded world club cup etc.

Sure, beating Barca is great, but beating the local enemy is always a great feeling.

Maybe its different in the NBA because there are so few Pro teams by comparison. In the English football alone there are 92 Pro teams in the top 4 leagues.

Below that are a further 5000+ teams all in different leagues and divisions who can, on any given year, end up getting relegated or promoted or in a dream scenario playing a big team like United or Liverpool or something in the FA cup. It might seem like nothing but due to the way the FA cup is structured, getting a top team in the FA cup 3rd round can mean that some lower tier clubs can get enough money just by turning up to fund the club for a decade. A team that usually plays in front of a crowd of 300 can end up hosting that big club or, better yet, going to that clubs stadium and playing in front of 30, 40, 50,000 people and getting half of that gate money.

It's great to challenge against other top teams in Europe, but the bread and butter of every nation is about playing the team from across the city and pumping them. or playing the team from the neighboring city and doing the same in their own back yard. These are all teams founded like 120+ years ago when its was just dudes with moustaches working in one mine trying to beat the blokes from the local factory. That's where the history of football in europe comes from.

Without that, the game would lose its soul.
 

ty_hot

Member
Dec 14, 2017
4,181
4 years later... just shows how worried UEFA is. They will appeal it and reduce it, maybe just a season, maybe not even that. Funny to see LaLiga representatives talking about it when Barça and Real poach young players and pressure older ones for transfer all the time.
 
Jan 10, 2018
4,697
I totally get where you're coming from, but I don't think Nations League and a club superleague are analogous, mostly because people are supporters of their own national team, but they are supporters of multiple clubs, usually one of the biggest clubs in the world. I root for USMNT and USWNT on the national level because I'm from here, but on the club level, I have a MLS side (Seattle Sounders FC), an English side (actually two, I know, I know, Newcastle United FC and Fulham FC), a Dutch side (Ajax Amsterdam), and a German side (Hertha Berlin).

My point being that worldwide, there are a ton of, say, Tottenham fans that are not from the UK and for whom that sort of tradition wouldn't have the same hold as for people who are in families that have been there locally, following the same club for generations.

I genuinely believe that these big soccer clubs will see themselves as global entities much like NBA teams do and will cater to their global audiences though the tradition is that these are local clubs that operate in their neighborhoods.

The sport is changing before my eyes, and I've only been following it for a few years. I've read enough and seen enough to see where this is going, though.

But I also think there is value to the way that things are right now; I wouldn't want pro/rel in MLS, but I love it in England and Germany, so if the current state of things is preserved, I'll be just as happy.
Thats a whole lot of words to not say alot. Sorry mate. Fans care about the national league and Champions League. Than some care about the national cup, if there is enough prestige behind it ie DFB cup. The rest is struggling as it is. The simple existence of yet another league/cup won't create some interest out of nowhere. Noone is growing up dreaming of winning yet another league or see their team win it. Such interest comes over a long time and massive changes to the structure of all european competitions.
 

Gawge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
743
By "product," I was referring to the product on the pitch itself, not the fans. I think this goes back to my point: The superclubs don't see their fanbase in the traditional way that maybe the fans do or smaller clubs that are still owned locally do. The fanbase to a Man United isn't simply the local supporters who show up to Old Trafford regularly and, while it's nice when the folks at Old Trafford offer a great atmosphere for the audience watching at home, they're consumers of the product, not part of the product. I would guess that this is much different at the vast majority of other clubs that aren't superclubs, who are often locally-owned and are distinctly clubs of their neighborhoods and towns. To me, that issue is causing a lot of the tension that I read about now among football fans, especially when their clubs are big clubs who go chase dollars in foreign lands.

Anyway, you could definitely be right, and it could be that the big clubs will have to use UEFA and the CL as a method to get a super league. *shrug* We'll see. I think the next decade will be fascinating when it comes to the big business aspect of the game.
The fans are absolutely a part of the product, especially for TV.

Football clubs, even huge ones, are still very much an identity. You couldn't pick them up and move them around like American 'franchises'. There would not be a good audience for these games, taking clubs out of the leagues they have been playing in for 150 years.

It just can't feasibly happen any time soon.
 

Honolulu Blue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,914
Thats a whole lot of words to not say alot. Sorry mate. Fans care about the national league and Champions League. Than some care about the national cup, if there is enough prestige behind it ie DFB cup. The rest is struggling as it is. The simple existence of yet another league/cup won't create some interest out of nowhere. Noone is growing up dreaming of winning yet another league or see their team win it. Such interest comes over a long time and massive changes to the structure of all european competitions.
This is one of those awful posts/opinions that manages to reduce everything great about sport and following a team, down to winning one of two competitions or being exclusively the best at everything.

“Fans care about the national league and Champions League”. What nonsense. Maybe those who arbitrarily pick one of the top teams to support based on nothing more than the likelihood of winning. But with all due respect.. fuck them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,564
It may well be, but it has always been like that in the US. Just as EU football has always been open and a team from the top division can in 3 short years find themselves playing 3 tiers down because of bad management and attitude. Just as a team with the right attitude and personnel can climb the ranks and do incredibly well.

What would put the super teams off is the lack of certainty. They really really like knowing that with the current way things are, PL teams will get a fair share of a £2.3bn pot a year, La Liga teams will get whatever etc.

Football in the EU is also about local bragging rights and beating the team from literally half a mile away. In this new league United would never play Leeds again. Liverpool would never play Everton again. Arsenal would never play Spurs again or whatever. That can't happen. It literally removes what is a huge part of the sport for the fans in the persuit of yet more money for things like the expanded world club cup etc.

Sure, beating Barca is great, but beating the local enemy is always a great feeling.

Maybe its different in the NBA because there are so few Pro teams by comparison. In the English football alone there are 92 Pro teams in the top 4 leagues.

Below that are a further 5000+ teams all in different leagues and divisions who can, on any given year, end up getting relegated or promoted or in a dream scenario playing a big team like United or Liverpool or something in the FA cup. It might seem like nothing but due to the way the FA cup is structured, getting a top team in the FA cup 3rd round can mean that some lower tier clubs can get enough money just by turning up to fund the club for a decade. A team that usually plays in front of a crowd of 300 can end up hosting that big club or, better yet, going to that clubs stadium and playing in front of 30, 40, 50,000 people and getting half of that gate money.

It's great to challenge against other top teams in Europe, but the bread and butter of every nation is about playing the team from across the city and pumping them. or playing the team from the neighboring city and doing the same in their own back yard. These are all teams founded like 120+ years ago when its was just dudes with moustaches working in one mine trying to beat the blokes from the local factory. That's where the history of football in europe comes from.

Without that, the game would lose its soul.
This is a great post, and I totally understand what you mean. Like I said, though, I don't think a club like Man United, which has thousands of American and Chinese and South American fans, cares quite as much about tradition as you do. I think they care more about monetizing those worldwide supporters as much as possible.

Commentators have been speculating about the death of the lower leagues and the continued issues with lower-league clubs going into administration like Bury has and like Bolton Wanderers almost did precisely because of this concentration of capital, talent, and interest at the top. Part of that is because these global clubs are just playing on a totally different level than poor Bury or Leyton Orient or whatever smaller club you can think of.

I think that you're right that the soul of the domestic game relies on local rivalries and local participation, but I don't know if the bigger clubs care about saving the soul of football in their countries as much as they care about money, money, and more money, and the monetization of their global following.

Thats a whole lot of words to not say alot. Sorry mate. Fans care about the national league and Champions League. Than some care about the national cup, if there is enough prestige behind it ie DFB cup. The rest is struggling as it is. The simple existence of yet another league/cup won't create some interest out of nowhere. Noone is growing up dreaming of winning yet another league or see their team win it. Such interest comes over a long time and massive changes to the structure of all european competitions.
No, it's just that you don't like my words because it threatens your tradition. I feel you on that, but you making false analogies doesn't do much to change reality.

The fans are absolutely a part of the product, especially for TV.

Football clubs, even huge ones, are still very much an identity. You couldn't pick them up and move them around like American 'franchises'. There would not be a good audience for these games, taking clubs out of the leagues they have been playing in for 150 years.

It just can't feasibly happen any time soon.
Maybe you're right. We'll see.
 

Steverulez

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,140
They'll appeal to CAS... it'll get delayed and they'll be in the CL next season, then they'll get it dropped to one season and a small fine.

What happens to Pep i dont know, dont think hell be there next season either way.