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Man, the Mandarin could have been amongst Marvel's top villains.

Arta

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445


(puts on flame shield)

Yes, I've heard all the defenses for the swerve, I just don't think it was worth it in the end. It defanged what we thought was an updated villain, and gave us one nobody remembers in Aldrich Killian. It the kind of thing that would happen in a Netflix Marvel serial.

I watch the above video, and save from the acting going a little too hammy in the 3rd lesson, they reallty had a base to really made this guy an intimidating and memorable villain in the vein of Killmonger, Tomes and Zemo. In fact he would have been Iron Man's Zemo in being a menace that strikes from the shadows.

I think the story could have given him enough nuances that would flesh him out more than a simple Middle Eastern boogeyman born of xenophobia.

The execution of the subversion doesn't trump what would have been if they had played it straight. At the very least, it would have made an Iron Man movie I'd have actually liked.
 
denx

denx

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Oct 27, 2017
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Well, the All Hail the King short reveals that there is a real Mandarin out there. Dunno if they're ever going to do anything with that plot point tho.
 
kadotsu

kadotsu

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Oct 25, 2017
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So a flashy terrorist with clear other coding serving as a front for the actual military complex villain isn't good these days. Maybe it hits too close to home for some.
 
whatsinaname

whatsinaname

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Oct 25, 2017
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Played straight, what exactly would he have brought to the table? Another terrorist for the hero to punch in the face?
 
Akira86

Akira86

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Oct 25, 2017
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Arta said:
It the kind of thing that would happen in a Netflix Marvel serial.
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wow. after all these years you actually put into perfect terms why I hated this twist, and there fore hated all of IM3.

it was the kind of thing you do as a concession because you can't properly do the great big thing yor originally wanted to do.

I wanted Fin Fang Foom sized fighting with giant Mandarin power displays and secret lairs that make Tony Stark look like he shops at Lowes. Instead I got an episode of Shield, guest starring Robert Downey Jr.
 
Khanimus

Khanimus

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Oct 25, 2017
40,586
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Could have been? He was.

He's a falsified amalgamation of America's paranoia of muslims, China, and religious fanaticism as sold by a rich American maniac. There are few Marvel villains as truthful as what they did with Mandarin.
 

Deleted member 11626

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Oct 27, 2017
4,199
I'd be in for one last Iron Man movie featuring the Mandarin. Feels like they'll let go of Iron Man one way or another though in the upcoming Avengers...but if Downey Jr and Cheadle are down for one more then I'm there day one

Khanimus said:
Could have been? He was.

He's a falsified amalgamation of America's paranoia of muslims, China, and religious fanaticism as sold by a rich American maniac. There are few Marvel villains as truthful as what they did with Mandarin.
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Lotta truth to this though. I have no hard feelings about the approach that was taken in IM3.
 
denx

denx

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Oct 27, 2017
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Btw, I like the twist itself, but Killian is still a lame character.
 
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jph139

jph139

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Oct 25, 2017
14,485
whatsinaname said:
Played straight, what exactly would he have brought to the table? Another terrorist for the hero to punch in the face?
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I'm a big fan of the twist and in general, think it's way better than just going with "Chinese man with magic rings," but pretty much all of the Iron Man movies are about a military industrial baddie backing evil foreign terrorists.

You have Stane pulling the strings behind the Ten Rings in the first one, then Hammer funding Whiplash in the second one, and Killian using the Mandarin in the third. It's not really an original idea, even within the series, it's just emphasized more in IM3.
 
Stay Up Be Easy

Stay Up Be Easy

Member
Dec 31, 2017
1,735
Yeah they were way too smart for their own good on that one.

I get what what they were going for. And they achieved it, congrats.

However I didn't appreciate it at all and wasn't entertained.

That and the humor that didn't know when to quit. Movie undercut tension at every step, it was like a slow leak on a balloon and then a huge pop with the reveal.
 
Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
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Oct 25, 2017
93,985
What a missed chance, their fights in comics are crazy.
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Context Mandarin had his rings embedded in his spine.
 
OP
OP
Arta

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
kadotsu said:
So a flashy terrorist with clear other coding serving as a front for the actual military complex villain isn't good these days. Maybe it hits too close to home for some.
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Dude, I'm not some flag waving guy in a pickup track wearing red, white and blue jockeyshorts. I'm not even from the States.

If they wanted to do an updated Manderin, do that. If they wanted to make a military complex villain, then do that from the start. What I'm saying in that the execution made both characters suffer.

For Pete's sake, 24 did a better job of the military-complex-villain-is-behind-it-all-along reveal in Iron Man 3.
 
Chikor

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Khanimus said:
Could have been? He was.

He's a falsified amalgamation of America's paranoia of muslims, China, and religious fanaticism as sold by a rich American maniac. There are few Marvel villains as truthful as what they did with Mandarin.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also a funny take on the British villain trope.
And beyond that, he was legit funny and the only time an MCU really surprised me.

The original character was a racist, pro Vietnam war caricature, he deserved to be mocked, not updated.
 
Slayven

Slayven

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Oct 25, 2017
93,985
Chikor said:
Also a funny take on the British villain trope.
And beyond that, he was legit funny and the only time an MCU really surprised me.

The original character was a racist, pro Vietnam war caricature, he deserved to be mocked, not updated.
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2 things. he is only like that is you stopped reading comics in the 70s

second
latest
 
Sephzilla

Sephzilla

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah Iron Man 3 is over rated and this twist is part of the reason why. Iron Man 3 abuses subversion to the point that it kills it's own tension.

The movie also drops the ball regarding Extemis big time.
 

Deleted member 13037

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I've yet to hear a take that was better than what we actually got.
 
Volimar

Volimar

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Oct 25, 2017
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I thought it was pretty funny, but even with the one shot that tried to fix everything, it kind of put an end to him appearing for real in the MCU.
 
Bor Gullet

Bor Gullet

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Oct 27, 2017
12,400
The problem with the twist is that Killian, the "real" villain sucks and has a super lame motivation.
 
WaffleTaco

WaffleTaco

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Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,908
Iron Man 3 was super lame I thought, easily the worst out of the three. Maybe I need to rewatch it, but the Iron Man suit's flying hundreds of miles was beyond ridiculous.
 
fade

fade

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,516
Think the Mandarin's rings are too similar to the infinity gems for Mandarin to be a major villain. They definitely could've done a better representation of who he is in Iron Man though.
 
Zvonimir Boban

Zvonimir Boban

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
kadotsu said:
So a flashy terrorist with clear other coding serving as a front for the actual military complex villain isn't good these days. Maybe it hits too close to home for some.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Khanimus said:
Could have been? He was.

He's a falsified amalgamation of America's paranoia of muslims, China, and religious fanaticism as sold by a rich American maniac. There are few Marvel villains as truthful as what they did with Mandarin.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What those guys said, plus the fact that Ben Kingsley was fantastic, meant the Mandarin turned out to be enjoyable as hell.
 
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
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Oct 25, 2017
33,302
The Mandarin is a racist caricature of a character and the movie is better for the subversion. Trevor was an amazing twist, my jaw literally dropped and I started laughing so hard when he started talking.
 
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