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Oct 25, 2017
4,841
How did the guy even get in trouble for this dog video in the first place? I went to his Twitter @CountDankulaTV and it's full of "nationalists" talking about "Muslim rape gangs". He's absolutely terrible and you could definitely find something else to get him in trouble for. But this dog video is harmless and an obvious edgy joke.
 

Ray Wonder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
649
Okay, so if I'm getting this straight. The guy is a shock comic. He made a joke (that most find stupid/offensive, but that's fairly irrelevant). Then he is charged as if he believed those things and was intentionally spreading hate.

Yeah I'm gonna have to side with the comic. I'll admit that I giggled when I watched that video when it first came out.

This is kinda that slippery slope boogeyman that people talk about. Except it actually happened.
 
Nov 30, 2017
809
Exerting social pressures to exclude them from public discourse and positions of power.

It's also important to note that he wasn't convicted of hate speech, he was convicted of 'offensive speech' which is extremely broad and could be applied to nearly anything anyone find offensive. Hence why the woman who jokingly tweeted #killallwhitemen was also prosecuted under the same law. Depending on who is in power (Mike Pence, for example), discussions of homosexuality could be deemed 'offensive'. This is why the first amendment to the constitution exists

Yeah, the USA has done such a spectacular job on that front, let me tell you...
 

Ray Wonder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
649
You know what gets me the most.

There are people out there that are actually Nazis. This guy that spends his days making jokes and pushing the envelope is a waste of jail space, when you could have someone actually hateful in there.
 

Ray Wonder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
649
Exerting social pressures to exclude them from public discourse and positions of power.

It's also important to note that he wasn't convicted of hate speech, he was convicted of 'offensive speech' which is extremely broad and could be applied to nearly anything anyone find offensive. Hence why the woman who jokingly tweeted #killallwhitemen was also prosecuted under the same law. Depending on who is in power (Mike Pence, for example), discussions of homosexuality could be deemed 'offensive'. This is why the first amendment to the constitution exists
That's a dumb law lmao
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Okay, so if I'm getting this straight. The guy is a shock comic. He made a joke (that most find stupid/offensive, but that's fairly irrelevant). Then he is charged as if he believed those things and was intentionally spreading hate.

Yeah I'm gonna have to side with the comic. I'll admit that I giggled when I watched that video when it first came out.

This is kinda that slippery slope boogeyman that people talk about. Except it actually happened.

You have many details incorrect here. The dude is literally a far-right white nationalist and expresses generally very common views of hate about immigrants, spreads lies about muslim rape gangs, etc. etc.

He's just hiding behind the guise of "it's a prank, bro", which the alt-right often does in order to appear innocent.

Also, what, you giggled at him saying gas the jews? He did that in that video. How is that even a joke?
 

Ray Wonder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
649
You have many details incorrect here. The dude is literally a far-right white nationalist and expresses generally very common views of hate about immigrants, spreads lies about muslim rape gangs, etc. etc.

He's just hiding behind the guise of "it's a prank, bro", which the alt-right often does in order to appear innocent.
So your opinion is that he's an alt righter instead of a shock comic
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Yeah, I have a dark sense of humor, which is not for you to decide.

Gasing jews, hahaha, so funny, hahaha. Watching Hitler and saying "you know what, he's right, we do need to gas the jews" is a joke? There's not any nuance. There's no mockery of Nazis. It's literally just spewing Nazi garbage. It's disturbing is what it is.
 

Ray Wonder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
649
Gasing jews, hahaha, so funny, hahaha. Watching Hitler and saying "you know what, he's right, we do need to gas the jews" is a joke? There's not any nuance. There's no mockery of Nazis. It's literally just spewing Nazi garbage. It's disturbing is what it is.
It's an absurdly disgusting statement and a funny reaction from a cute puppy. You're over analyzing it too much.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,841
So your opinion is that he's an alt righter instead of a shock comic
From his Twitter account, I'd say yes. There is no comedy involved in his retweets of "muslim rape gangs coming to the UK and freely raping everyone". That's completely serious shit.

As I posted earlier, I'm wondering why this harmless dog video was the target instead of the other 100% sincere hatred at Muslims in his Twitter. That part is where I agree with you.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Ooo quick with character attacks.

The dude is a far-right white nationalist. His twitter and general online presence is nothing but pushing far-right wing propaganda. That's the blatant fact of the matter. If you want to deny those facts, even after being told them, in order to defend him because "freeze peach" or whatever, then this is going to be a judgment of you. You state something incorrectly about what he is, get told the facts and in bad faith you try to say that the actual fact about who this man is is "a difference in opinion". You're arguing in bad faith.
 

Ray Wonder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
649
From his Twitter account, I'd say yes. There is no comedy involved in his retweets of "muslim rape gangs coming to the UK and freely raping everyone". That's completely serious shit.

As I posted earlier, I'm wondering why this harmless dog video was the target instead of the other 100% sincere hatred at Muslims in his Twitter.
If he has shitty views, that's fair. He's a scumbag and a shock comic.

You don't lock people up for that.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
It's an absurdly disgusting statement and a funny reaction from a cute puppy. You're over analyzing it too much.

Paying attention to the truth of the matter about who this man really is isn't "over analyzing". If you think it's important we consider what a person is, as you so claim he's "just a shock jock" in order to base your argument for siding with him, I'm going to point out what he actually is in order to side against him.
 

Ray Wonder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
649
The dude is a far-right white nationalist. His twitter and general online presence is nothing but pushing far-right wing propaganda. That's the blatant fact of the matter. If you want to deny those facts, even after being told them, in order to defend him because "freeze peach" or whatever, then this is going to be a judgment of you. You state something incorrectly about what he is, get told the facts and in bad faith you try to say that the actual fact about who this man is is "a difference in opinion". You're arguing in bad faith.

Oh boy, I'm "arguing in bad faith"

That's bannable.


No, I'm arguing that people shouldn't be locked up for shit like this, when there are real threats and concerns that should take precedent over a guy saying racist stuff and a cute dog reacting to it.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
One is made by a far right white nationalist where he has a long sordid history of supporting far-right causes and can be seen genuinely watching Hitler videos and saying to gas the jews , which isn't even a joke in any sense whatsoever, and one is a mockery of the Nazis by professional comedians.
Well, when you put it that way they don't sound comparable at all (they never were comparable).
 

King_Moc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,126
From his Twitter account, I'd say yes. There is no comedy involved in his retweets of "muslim rape gangs coming to the UK and freely raping everyone". That's completely serious shit.

As I posted earlier, I'm wondering why this harmless dog video was the target instead of the other 100% sincere hatred at Muslims in his Twitter. That part is where I agree with you.

On the other hand, literally thousands of young girls have been raped by Asian grooming gangs. I'm not a fan of the right, but if they'd done nothing, the left sure as hell wasn't going to do anything either. I mean, you don't want to look racist, do you?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...en-bradford-rotherham-newcastle-a7987381.html

Obviously, the statements from the right wing figures are hyperbolised to the max to create as much hate as possible, but if people had actually acted in the first place, they wouldn't have had the opportunity to politicise this in the way they have.
 
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Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Oh boy, I'm "arguing in bad faith"

That's bannable.


No, I'm arguing that people shouldn't be locked up for shit like this, when there are real threats and concerns that should take precedent over a guy saying racist stuff and a cute dog reacting to it.

Well, yes, you are. You were told the truth about who this man really is in a calm manner and your response is to defend him immediately by calling the facts opinions. This isn't even mentioning that this man does have a large platform to spread his far-right wing propaganda. Him getting punished is frankly fine when you consider the spread of influence he has.

Hiding it behind, "it's just a joke/meme" is what the alt-right does all the time online. They try to turn it into a free-speech issue on purpose in order to let their propaganda continue to slide and influence others while everyone gets tossed up in some dumb free-speech argument that ignores the fact that this other person is quite frankly some far-right loon.

They gather up supporters from "righteous defenders of freeze-peach" (something the Nazi wants to get rid of in the long-run, mind you) and overtime convert more people to their ideals via deflection and pretending to be innocent. They let others defend them so much that these others who don't know better end up following their ideals in the long-run. The Nazi's goal is to make those who oppose them seem as though they're "going too far" with crazy slippery slopes that amount to nothing but hogwash when the only one being punished is the Nazi themselves.

It's by the book their overall goal online these days.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
this is the best way to deal with nazis

as a pacifist i don't really like punching, but their putrid agenda and hate propaganda should not be given any breathing room. prosecuting them is the way to go

some people are worried about precedent, but so far only a nazi got got. no one who didn't deserve it. when someone not a nazi gets in trouble, that's when i'll get up in arms (figuratively) but so far y'all're just defending a nazi?
Horrible post IMO
These posters are defending the right to make gross and offensive jokes. It's like you and plenty of others aren't even remotely aware how easily this precedent could come back to bite you in the future. You have no fucking clue what party or prime minister will rule the UK in 10 or 20 years. What if they weaponize those hyper-aggressive hate speech laws to get their political opponents thrown in jail?
Holding up a "Fuck the System" sign or drawing a charicature of the PM could very well be considered "grossly offensive".
Crazy how shortsided some people are.
to me it is just interesting that the same posters that you will find in every topic on european topics appeasing and normalizing european racist party, posters who are totally not nazis by the way, go out of their way for the right of a nazi to publish hate speech on their youtube channel. it makes me go
9d5wfubq.png
 
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Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
On the other hand, literally thousands of young girls have been raped by Asian grooming gangs. I'm not a fan of the right, but if they'd done nothing, the left sure as hell wasn't going to do anything either. I mean, you don't want to look racist, do you?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/is-my-christmas-jumper-racist.10468/

Obviously, the statements from the right wing figures are hyperbolised to the max to create as much hate as possible, but if people had actually acted in the first place, they wouldn't have had the opportunity to politicise this in the way they have.

The twist that flew under the radar in that topic was definitely this post

Best post in this thread.

I was at this meet. I'm not sure if the jumper is racist, but the things he was saying in it definitively were.

Bringing up unrelated issues with the UK Government and the police is a deflection tactic and it's also what is annoying about topics like this, where it becomes full-scale political warfare of right vs left (or posters throwing wild accusations around of other posters) instead of a more reasonable adult discussion on the legal powers the state has to remove rights and what content it is able to class as actionable under the law.

Some do just outright state they believe a potential prison sentence is justified here, which is what it is, that's how the law currently stands. You can go to prison for this video. The only thing you have to hope is the people who support this as state enforceable also equally apply that stance to the other idiotic things some people have said on social media that were either done in anger/political dissent or are bad taste jokes. The law is supposed to be applied equally, not only towards people you don't like. Precisely because in a partial democracy the same political party isn't always in power, we don't live in dictatorships where the "good guys" are only running countries and taking away citizens rights for crimes.
 
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Deleted member 21380

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
528
Germany
Do you have any examples of similar behaviour falling under Volksverhetzung or Wiederbetätigung? Because I'm 99% sure this wouldn't fall under it.

Actually, by uploading this to YouTube this could very well fall under Volksverhetzung, because he said "Gas the Jews!" and uploaded it to YouTube. However, german judges are mostly sane, so I doubt anything would have happened to him because this is clearly identifiable as a joke.

Remember however that leftist were fined during the 90s for wearing crossed out swastika badges because the swastika was identifyable under the cross out.

I'm talking about this:

https://goo.gl/images/rPsgbb

This shit had to go all the way to the Bundesgerichtshof.
 

LuisGarcia

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,478
to me it is just interesting that the same posters that you will find in every topic on european topics appeasing and normalizing european racist party, posters who are totally not nazis by the way, go out of their way for the right of a nazi to publish hate speech on their youtube channel. it makes me go

Come off it. People can discuss this without being called a fucking Nazi. You are part of the problem.

To be fair most people, including myself, are not arguing for how nice a person the bloke in question is. It's the fact that this is a jail able offence is laughable. Video removed and youtube account banned? Absolutely. Jail time? Crazy.

Ricky Gervais (amongst others) is about as left as you can go and he has come out and said jail time is wrong....is he a Nazi?
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
Come off it. People can discuss this without being called a fucking Nazi. You are part of the problem.

To be fair most people, including myself, are not arguing for how nice a person the bloke in question is. It's the fact that this is a jail able offence is laughable. Video removed and youtube account banned? Absolutely. Jail time? Crazy.

Ricky Gervais (amongst others) is about as left as you can go and he has come out and said jail time is wrong....is he a Nazi?

Ricky Gervais is about as left as you can go? Yeah, I'm not seeing that with the way he's been acting recently.

Gervais said: "[They say] she's always identified as a woman. That means she's a woman. Fine, if that's the rules. If you feel you're a woman, you are. I'm not a bigot who thinks having all that done is science going too far.

"In fact, I don't think it's going far enough. Cause I've always identified as a chimp, right? Well, I am a chimp. If I say I'm a chimp, I am a chimp Pre-op. But don't ever dead-name me. Don't call me Ricky Gervais again. From now on, you call me Bobo."

He added "I'm gonna have species realignment. I'm halfway there. I'm short, with short legs and long arms… once, I was at the zoo, and people were looking at me, and I just started masturbating. So, I am a chimp, right?
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Come off it. People can discuss this without being called a fucking Nazi. You are part of the problem.

To be fair most people, including myself, are not arguing for how nice a person the bloke in question is. It's the fact that this is a jail able offence is laughable. Video removed and youtube account banned? Absolutely. Jail time? Crazy.

Ricky Gervais (amongst others) is about as left as you can go and he has come out and said jail time is wrong....is he a Nazi?

If you're going to link to that duo Baddiel is more suitable of the two as he is Jewish - https://mobile.twitter.com/Baddiel

Then again, people will correctly point out one Jewish person doesn't speak for all Jewish people, but the evidence is supplied not to suggest he or she is the spokesperson for all Jewish people but that seemingly decent people exist that don't agree with this court sentence that aren't secretly Nazis. Especially not Jewish Nazis.

We already have the accusations in this topic someone must be a *wink* *wink* Nazi or Nazi defender not to come out in full support of the UK Government putting this through the courts for 2 years and finally sentencing someone with a criminal record for being "grossly offensive".
 

LuisGarcia

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,478
Ricky Gervais is about as left as you can go? Yeah, I'm not seeing that with the way he's been acting recently.

Are you serious with that quote? It's from his stand up.

The guy has made a career on being offensive. It's not his actual views. There is also a joke about Rottweiler's killing babies.
 

Spuck-

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
996
Okay, so if I'm getting this straight. The guy is a shock comic. He made a joke (that most find stupid/offensive, but that's fairly irrelevant). Then he is charged as if he believed those things and was intentionally spreading hate.

Yeah I'm gonna have to side with the comic. I'll admit that I giggled when I watched that video when it first came out.

This is kinda that slippery slope boogeyman that people talk about. Except it actually happened.

If your 'edgy humour' is indistinguishable from hate speech, you get done for hate speech.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
Come off it. People can discuss this without being called a fucking Nazi. You are part of the problem.
that part of my post was not targeted at every single poster arguing in defence of this man

only at those whose post histories show that their opinions would line up in a very...interesting way in a venn diagram

you should check the post histories of some of those posters who are agreeing with you to see what kind of company you are making
 
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Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
If your 'edgy humour' is indistinguishable from hate speech, you get done for hate speech.

He hasn't been convicted of hate speech though, it's a conviction of being "grossly offensive" under the 2003 communications act

127 Improper use of public electronic communications network

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—
(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; or

(b)causes any such message or matter to be so sent.
(2)A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another, he—
(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network, a message that he knows to be false,
(b)causes such a message to be sent; or
(c)persistently makes use of a public electronic communications network.
(3)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both.
(4)Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to anything done in the course of providing a programme service (within the meaning of the Broadcasting Act 1990 (c. 42)).

As the result of controversial prosecutions of social-media users, the Crown Prosecution Service has drawn up guidelines seeking to limit the cases brought under Section 127.

The Director of Public Prosecutions' 'interim guidelines' (December 2012) for social media prosecutions include the use of Section 127. These attempt to limit the usage of Section 127, to cases which go beyond those which are "offensive, shocking or disturbing; or satirical, iconoclastic or rude; or the expression of unpopular; or unfashionable opinion about serious or trivial matters, or banter or humour, even if distasteful to some or painful to those subjected to it".[1]

As it was in the courts for 2 years I presume the court tried to get hate speech charges to apply, given that they tend to have 12~24+ month prison sentences, but clearly as enough context was in the video not to align it with a literal call to take arms and genocide, it ended up being the charge it is which can only have a max prison sentence of 6 months.

There was no jury, in this case, it was simply a judges decision.
 

nillansan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,520
Denmark
Seems like this needs to be mentioned again, dude is a fucking Nazi coddler and he is complicit in signal boosting far right propaganda.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,398
Do tell

break down 'gas the jews'

Tell me where you find the humor and how it makes you laugh. It should be easy for you to explain! After all, it's your dark sense of humor, right? You just happen to find 'gas the jews' hilarious, apparently.
It's obviously funny to have the least dangerous looking animal in the world look at you with big puppy eyes and then subsequently ogle at Hitler and doing a Nazi salute. That's an absurdist juxtaposition that gets many people to burst out laughing.

Though of course, given the video-makers apparent beliefs, it may not be a joke and so that could play a decisive role in the court case imo. But I also think it's a bit much for law enforcement to get involved.
 

VISION

Member
Oct 25, 2017
988
Sorry, i kinda laughed when the guy had his dog watching Hitler speeches on the computer to indoctrinate him. Its not that nazis are funny, just that the whole idea of indoctrinating a pug is absurd.

The guy may be a nazi but i dont really get how this video should land him jail time. Then again im not British.
 

Deleted member 1041

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,725
c'mon dude.

Hes laughing at the absurdity of the statement because its a terrible thing.

Im glad you could answer for him. Shit, guess its alright to just scream out 'gas the jews' wherever we go, right? As long as someone laughs, we have carte blanche to just say whatever?

Ya'll keep defending this racist motherfucker.