• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Manafort held secret talks with Assange in Ecuadorian embassy

junomars

junomars

Banned
Nov 19, 2018
723
Stop It said:
This isn't a trial and the equivalence is just not there.

The Guardian are a respectable source of investigative journalism and Wikileaks is literally a vehicle for Assange and his agenda. When one of these sides makes a claim that the other denies, only a fool would put equal weight to both sides.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I disagree completely. And I don't hold them (WL/Assange and The Guardian) equally credibility wise.

You can say this is not a trial but a trial is honestly the only context this has relevancy in. The goal is to prosecute the Trump campaign. You have to have a perfect case with tangible evidence and even then you have to convince a grand jury to convict.

This is informative to a largely clueless community like us but to Mueller this is nothing and likely something he already knew.
 
cameron

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,823


Manu Raju @mkraju

Mark Warner on Guardian report about Manafort apparently meeting with Assange: "I'd like to know if the story is accurate or not"

I asked him if he were aware of it, and he said he wants to know if it's accurate, a sign that this report is news to Senate Intelligence Committee


Natasha Bertrand @NatashaBertrand

WikiLeaks is adamantly denying that Assange ever met with Manafort. But they also adamantly denied ever communicating with Roger Stone. (We now know that they exchanged direct messages in October 2016.) https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...stones-secret-messages-with-wikileaks/554432/ …
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
This is collusion or what? Massive BFD from Guardian if true.
 
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
RustyNails said:
This is collusion or what? Massive BFD from Guardian if true.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's why you've got a lot of people waiting to see if anyone else can corroborate this story. If someone else comes out with this same story in the next few days, then it's a verified megaton.
 
DrROBschiz

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,494
B-Dubs said:
That's why you've got a lot of people waiting to see if anyone else can corroborate this story. If someone else comes out with this same story in the next few days, then it's a verified megaton.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well isnt the investigation looking at Wikileaks and Roger Stone

I imagine these facts would come to light in definitive details soon enough
 
ZealousD

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
DrROBschiz said:
Well isnt the investigation looking at Wikileaks and Roger Stone

I imagine these facts would come to light in definitive details soon enough
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Given the timing, I had assumed this had come to light because of Manafort lying under his plea deal. I.E. this was the thing he was lying about.
 
Casa

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,533
Trump saying "heroes will come from this and it won't be Mueller."

Wonder if that's a hint about what he has ordered of Whitaker. Trump, Fox News and his millions of deplorables will all hail him as a hero and patriot who put an end to the Great Witch Hunt.
 
LinktothePastGOAT

LinktothePastGOAT

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,879
Oh wow!!! Carl Bernstein said his sources say Mueller has known for A YEAR!!! that Manafort visited the Pres of Equador in spring of 2017 and the connection of the meeting to Wikileaks.
 
Username1198

Username1198

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,123
Space, Man
Wikileaks/assange>manafart>prez shitbag

LOCK EM UP!

There has to be video of manafort walking into the embassy.

And LMAO at shitbag flailing.

12 angry democrats? 30 million cost?

GTFO go straight to jail asshat.
 
cameron

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,823
LinktothePastGOAT said:
Oh wow!!! Carl Bernstein said his sources say Mueller has known for A YEAR!!! that Manafort visited the Pres of Equador in spring of 2017 and the connection of the meeting to Wikileaks.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
>

David P Gelles @gelles

NEW: .@carlbernstein reports Mueller's team has been investigating a 2017 meeting between Manafort and Ecuador's president in Quito in 2017, and has specifically asked if Wikileaks or Julian Assange were discussed in the meeting.
 
barit

barit

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,163
Man the books and movies about this insane ride will be glorious and probably the best political thrillers based on a true story that we´ll see for the next decades. Can´t wait till we find out all the other juicy parts.
 
fick

fick

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 24, 2018
2,261
Call me crazy, but I'm gonna side with the Guardian and Carl Bernstein over Glen Greenwald and some twitter fingers.
 
Kernel

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,889
Well part of the skepticism is that WL denies it which amounts to nothing.

Just because Julian tweets from a broom closet in the Ecuadorian embassy that's it's false doesn't mean it is.
 
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
LinktothePastGOAT said:
Oh wow!!! Carl Bernstein said his sources say Mueller has known for A YEAR!!! that Manafort visited the Pres of Equador in spring of 2017 and the connection of the meeting to Wikileaks.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This doesn't explicitly confirm the Guardian's reporting, but it likely strengthens the credibility of what they've put out today.
 
jelly

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Now rope in Farage too please, he visited Assange as well and he can't remember why he was there.
 
fick

fick

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 24, 2018
2,261
junomars said:
Do you have to pick a side? Right now?


I don't know why waiting and seeing is seen as siding with GG.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Picking a side insofar as viewing one side more likely to be telling the truth than the other. Like if someone posts a screenshot of the Guardian editors saying something like, "let's just make up some shit on Manafort", then I'll change camps.

Everyone on here loves to make fun of Boogie for his meet in the middle bullshit, but any time people have to use critical thinking to make a decision based on an incomplete picture, they want to throw their hands up and play wait and see.
 
Doober

Doober

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,295
It irks me that Matt Taibbi still stans for Assange and concern trolls over any government that tries to go after him.

Assange is not a fucking journalist.
 
junomars

junomars

Banned
Nov 19, 2018
723
fick said:
Picking a side insofar as viewing one side more likely to be telling the truth than the other. Like if someone posts a screenshot of the Guardian editors saying something like, "let's just make up some shit on Manafort", then I'll change camps.

Everyone on here loves to make fun of Boogie for his meet in the middle bullshit, but any time people have to use critical thinking to make a decision based on an incomplete picture, they want to throw their hands up and play wait and see.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A huge part of critical thinking is knowing what you know and more importantly knowing what you don't know. To me this writeup is very light on facts and particulars and those are basically the only thing that matter when it comes to actionable intel.

I think people are far too comfortable conflating what they think they know or think to be true with what is known to be true. I don't think the Guardian would lie but that certainly doesn't mean what they say is true either. Waiting isn't throwing your hands up, its avoiding going down a wrong path and getting lost in the weeds. There's no pressure on anybody to make a decision or judgement immediately.
 

JackDT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,123
Waiting for confirmation from other papers. Trump's crew really are comic book tier villains but even so, they'd send a lackey I would think...
 
Stop It

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,352
JackDT said:
Waiting for confirmation from other papers. Trump's crew really are comic book tier villains but even so, they'd send a lackey I would think...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Manafort was the lackey.

It was a function he performed in Ukraine too for their Moscow backed government.

This isn't anything outside of his playbook.
 
fick

fick

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 24, 2018
2,261
junomars said:
A huge part of critical thinking is knowing what you know and more importantly knowing what you don't know. To me this writeup is very light on facts and particulars and those are basically the only thing that matter when it comes to actionable intel.

I think people are far too comfortable conflating what they think they know or think to be true with what is known to be true. I don't think the Guardian would lie but that certainly doesn't mean what they say is true either. Waiting isn't throwing your hands up, its avoiding going down a wrong path and getting lost in the weeds. There's no pressure on anybody to make a decision or judgement immediately.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I get what you're saying, but I feel as though that line of thinking is what leads a lot of people to say, "Oh well why hasn't Trump been indicted yet if he's guilty?"

What I'm getting at is that this article doesn't sound far fetched. Could it be wrong? Sure, and I'll admit and accept that if it happens. I just get the feeling that when I see people looking at a situation like this, and saying, "Well Wikileaks and Greenwald said it's false...let's wait and see," they're hiding their fear of being wrong about something behind a guise of intellectual morality (which is really why I compared it to Boogie...his is just alt-right bullshit behind the guise of intellectual discourse).
 
fick

fick

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 24, 2018
2,261
Clipjoint said:
'Waiting and seeing' is literally siding with GG...but waiting for evidence is seen as reflexively siding with WL/Russia/Trump for some reason these days.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Because all the evidence we've seen thus far has been entirely damning and has corroborated the Steele dossier. We're not going to be given all the evidence, given then seriousness and clandestine nature of all of it.

But, after being drip-fed information for over two years now, for people to pop up in a thread about Manfort doing more stupid shit, and saying, "Well, we don't have all the facts yet," seems entirely disingenuous.
 
cirr

cirr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,247
Northern VA
Greenwald burned all the credibility he once had years ago around Snowden's time when he starting eagerly playing into the hands of Russia, Wikileaks and like-minded individuals.

Guardian has nothing to lose here; i mean, these supposed talks would be the least surprising headline i've read this week.
 
Last edited:
Clipjoint

Clipjoint

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
157
fick said:
Because all the evidence we've seen thus far has been entirely damning and has corroborated the Steele dossier. We're not going to be given all the evidence, given then seriousness and clandestine nature of all of it.

But, after being drip-fed information for over two years now, for people to pop up in a thread about Manfort doing more stupid shit, and saying, "Well, we don't have all the facts yet," seems entirely disingenuous.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Two years later and we still don't have the full picture on the case, and there's been more that's been proven wrong/misleading/exaggerated than there has been proven correct. Anyone cautioning skepticism and certainty is just preaching good journalism.

There's no one that's better sourced or that has done more reporting than the NY Times and Washington Post on this story. When they get 'scooped' by The Guardian, it's reasonable to question if they had access to the same sources but chose not to run it. The Guardian has already re-written the original piece to add a number of qualifiers that weren't there originally.

Greenwald's defense of Assange is not about Assange himself, or Wikileaks as an organization. He's a civil libertarian and journalist that is vociferously fighting against the criminalization of receiving and publishing classified information. Yes Assange is a piece of shit, but that doesn't mean we should support the attempts to prosecute him for doing what literally every journalist should be doing, or already does on a regular basis. So it's understandable that he's pushing back against the anti-Russia hysteria being used to justify a crackdown on legitimate journalism just because we don't like the person who received and published the documents.
 
fick

fick

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 24, 2018
2,261
Clipjoint said:
Two years later and we still don't have the full picture on the case, and there's been more that's been proven wrong/misleading/exaggerated than there has been proven correct. Anyone cautioning skepticism and certainty is just preaching good journalism.

There's no one that's better sourced or that has done more reporting than the NY Times and Washington Post on this story. When they get 'scooped' by The Guardian, it's reasonable to question if they had access to the same sources but chose not to run it. The Guardian has already re-written the original piece to add a number of qualifiers that weren't there originally.

Greenwald's defense of Assange is not about Assange himself, or Wikileaks as an organization. He's a civil libertarian and journalist that is vociferously fighting against the criminalization of receiving and publishing classified information. Yes Assange is a piece of shit, but that doesn't mean we should support the attempts to prosecute him for doing what literally every journalist should be doing, or already does on a regular basis. So it's understandable that he's pushing back against the anti-Russia hysteria being used to justify a crackdown on legitimate journalism just because we don't like the person who received and published the documents.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Dude Wikileaks/Assange are Russian assets. This isn't some freedom of the press issue.

And citation needed for the whole "more proven wrong than right" thing, please.
 
jelly

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Remember when Greenwald was revealing the Snowdan stuff via the Guardian etc. was he always mental and a Russian stooge?
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Manafort held secret talks.

Is this the Secret of Mana?
 
cameron

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,823
Full statement:

Zoe Tillman @ZoeTillman

NEW: Statement from Paul Manafort about today's Guardian story, via a spokesman: "This story is totally false and deliberately libelous. I have never met Julian Assange or anyone connected to him."

dtcsatcw0augwjuhvcyw.jpg
 
Sokrates

Sokrates

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
560
jelly said:
Remember when Greenwald was revealing the Snowdan stuff via the Guardian etc. was he always mental and a Russian stooge?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean it was a good thing that they exposed mass surveillance programs back in the day. People forget how much of a shock it was to learn about.

And he's not mental, he's just contrarian to a fault. He doesn't know when to put down the shovel when he's digging his reputation's grave.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.