Manga |OT|: No matter how I look at it, it's discord's fault we're not popular

BassForever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,732
CT
You know Super can’t have any real tension because it takes place before the introduction of Uub at the end of Z, you have to disconnect from that and enjoy the spectacle and story at face value.

To get back on topic of Black Clover, the entire Elf possession arc felt like an anime filler arc idea that somehow made it into the canon series. Between damn near everything being reset to the status quo at the end, the ease of which the possessions could be undone by Asta, battles that were abandoned unfinished, characters introduced who added nothing to the overall arc, and the virtual deus ex machnia of both the final boss and how they were defeated.

I want whatever people were smoking when they said this was one of the best arcs of the series.
 

Silfer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,156
There would have been tension of Goten and Trunks were in it.
I...don't think so but I would preferred to have them in there anyway lol.
Nothing makes me happier than seeing Black Clover get more popular while people whine about it.
The recent sales chart I looked at gave of the impression that it had plateaued around 230k actually. Did it start growing again?
Yeah I also thought it'd been kinda steady now. Though maybe it's just in Japan. I know it's been killing it on Crunchyroll lately and the recently released Vol.16 was the top Shonen release on Amazon (which I don't think had happened before) when it came out though so maybe it's growing in the west.
I want whatever people were smoking when they said this was one of the best arcs of the series.
Not gonna bother arguing what you said cause it feels in bad faith and like I'd be wasting my time but I think this is the best arc of the series and though I can't give you anything to smoke, I can give the advice to not feel the need to discredit people's opinions like this as if yours cannot be legitimate without that. You can dislike something without antagonizing the people who like it. And it makes others more receptive to what you have to say anyway.
 

RochHoch

Member
May 22, 2018
3,891
You know Super can’t have any real tension because it takes place before the introduction of Uub at the end of Z, you have to disconnect from that and enjoy the spectacle and story at face value.

To get back on topic of Black Clover, the entire Elf possession arc felt like an anime filler arc idea that somehow made it into the canon series. Between damn near everything being reset to the status quo at the end, the ease of which the possessions could be undone by Asta, battles that were abandoned unfinished, characters introduced who added nothing to the overall arc, and the virtual deus ex machnia of both the final boss and how they were defeated.

I want whatever people were smoking when they said this was one of the best arcs of the series.
I feel like Black Clover fans wanted a turn to gush over how good their series is, and were willing to completely overlook the many, many, glaring flaws so that they could have their time in the sun.

Part of it was probably because they expected a meaningful end result instead of a simple return to status quo, which was an unwise decision considering that its been pretty obvious for a while now that Tabata just makes stuff up as he goes along.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,813
I feel like Black Clover fans wanted a turn to gush over how good their series is, and were willing to completely overlook the many, many, glaring flaws so that they could have their time in the sun.

Part of it was probably because they expected a meaningful end result instead of a simple return to status quo, which was an unwise decision considering that its been pretty obvious for a while now that Tabata just makes stuff up as he goes along.
Or. Or! People are enjoying the story being told? That could be it too!
 

Silfer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,156
Or. Or! People are enjoying the story being told? That could be it too!
Nah, that's inconceivable. BC fans can only be desperate.

Tabata: Writes a story where literally every big "twist", reveal, development is either foreshadowed or straight up told to you it's gonna happen in terms you maybe just don't understand yet, sometimes more than a hundred chapters in advance.

"Astute" Reader: It's been obvious for a while he just makes stuff up as he goes along.

This is something that makes me feel like the hate this series is can get irrational so easily. It's fine to dislike something but we don't need to make shit up. If you dislike Black Clover, that is a perfectly legitimate way to feel. There's no need to straight up lie about stuff on top of it to justify it. It's justified enough without it.

But to say he makes stuff up? As I re-read this series and see all the ways various things are set up in advance, I can't help but find that just laughably inaccurate and sad. It just comes off as RochHoch "wanting a turn" to talk shit as much as they think people wanted a turn to praise it.
 

BassForever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,732
CT
Or. Or! People are enjoying the story being told? That could be it too!
People enjoy lots of terrible written crap, sword art online has been one of the most popular series of the last decade. I don’t doubt some black clover fans are enjoying the story, but that doesn’t mean the story is any good. I’m a black clover fan and I thought the arc was awful, give me more arcs like the selection tournament or the dungeon exploration arcs.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,813
People enjoy lots of terrible written crap, sword art online has been one of the most popular series of the last decade. I don’t doubt some black clover fans are enjoying the story, but that doesn’t mean the story is any good. I’m a black clover fan and I thought the arc was awful, give me more arcs like the selection tournament or the dungeon exploration arcs.
Quality is subjective. The Dungeon Exploration arc was very very weak compared to this most recent one.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
6,347
You know Super can’t have any real tension because it takes place before the introduction of Uub at the end of Z, you have to disconnect from that and enjoy the spectacle and story at face value.
Even without that, there's no tension. I'm not even convinced that End of Z will be canon because it makes no sense for Goku to come back and be all excited about training Uub. But beyond that, there are just too many ways out now. At least the current manga arc is trying to do something a little different, I'll give it that.
 

AquaWateria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
993
I’ll be honest I never understood why Black Clover gets the amount of hate it does. Like imo I rate it next to My Hero Academia in terms of writing, yet the latter gets more praise than the former even tho it uses a lot of the same tropes as well. Heck at least with Black clover it actually goes out of its way to use its female characters.

Now I’m not saying Black Clover is well written, but to me it really isn’t worse than most Shonen battle manga. Either way I’m probably in the minority regarding this lol.
 

A.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,250
I’ll be honest I never understood why Black Clover gets the amount of hate it does. Like imo I rate it next to My Hero Academia in terms of writing, yet the latter gets more praise than the former even tho it uses a lot of the same tropes as well. Heck at least with Black clover it actually goes out of its way to use its female characters.

Now I’m not saying Black Clover is well written, but to me it really isn’t worse than most Shonen battle manga. Either way I’m probably in the minority regarding this lol.
The biggest factor was probably the "Next King of Shonen" marketing it got.
 

BassForever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,732
CT
Or maybe people just don’t think the series is very good, despite wanting to like it regardless of whatever marketing hype surrounds it.
 

alexi52

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,008
I thought the popularity of black clover was the pace of content from the series.
Yep, the quick action packed pacing made people forget about the lackluster writing
I’ll be honest I never understood why Black Clover gets the amount of hate it does. Like imo I rate it next to My Hero Academia in terms of writing, yet the latter gets more praise than the former even tho it uses a lot of the same tropes as well. Heck at least with Black clover it actually goes out of its way to use its female characters.

Now I’m not saying Black Clover is well written, but to me it really isn’t worse than most Shonen battle manga. Either way I’m probably in the minority regarding this lol.
Both MHA and BC start off as pretty standard Shonen stories, the problem with BC is Asta doesn't quite give positive first impression (especially in the anime), and I'd argue MHA has been trying different things writing wise lately while BC just escalates from one arc to the next with no breathing room, and the current hate for the new chapter is even coming from die hard fans, bringing that character back is just not a smart move
 
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AquaWateria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
993
Yep, the quick action packed pacing made people forget about the lackluster writing

Both MHA and BC start off as pretty standard Shonen stories, the problem with BC is Asta doesn't quite give positive first impression (especially in the anime), and I'd argue MHA has been trying different things writing wise lately while BC just escalates from one arc to the next with no breathing room, and the current hate for the new chapter is even coming from die hard fans, bringing that character back is just not a smart move
I don’t know for me after the All for one vs All Might, My Hero went downhill especially when that certain moment was introduced later on. I mean there are certainly enjoyable moments here and there. Also I feel like the series was always carried hard by its setting (Superheroes) which the west gravitates a lot to. I don’t know man I’ve always seen My Hero in the same vein as Black Clover it’s just the latter has just been hated more.

I certainly don’t think My Hero’s writing is any different or better than Black Clover. Maybe more entertaining? The series is also fast paced during certain moments as well. Tbh a lot Shonen Jump Battle manga have been fast paced especially newer series. Then again I really don’t expect the greatest of writing from Jump only because this is a magazine for teenagers after all.

Edit: I can see where the latest controversy is coming from, but honestly it’s one of those battle manga tropes you usually see coming from these series. Not saying it’s a good thing, but it’s a common trope.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,385
Or maybe people just don’t think the series is very good, despite wanting to like it regardless of whatever marketing hype surrounds it.
Evetyone obviously has their own reasons, but there were definitely people who were upset with the series based solely on how Jump was promoting it back before the anime even started.

People enjoy lots of terrible written crap, sword art online has been one of the most popular series of the last decade. I don’t doubt some black clover fans are enjoying the story, but that doesn’t mean the story is any good. I’m a black clover fan and I thought the arc was awful, give me more arcs like the selection tournament or the dungeon exploration arcs.
As someone that likes Black Clover those are probably the two least enjoyable arcs imo.

Nah, that's inconceivable. BC fans can only be desperate.

Tabata: Writes a story where literally every big "twist", reveal, development is either foreshadowed or straight up told to you it's gonna happen in terms you maybe just don't understand yet, sometimes more than a hundred chapters in advance.

"Astute" Reader: It's been obvious for a while he just makes stuff up as he goes along.

This is something that makes me feel like the hate this series is can get irrational so easily. It's fine to dislike something but we don't need to make shit up. If you dislike Black Clover, that is a perfectly legitimate way to feel. There's no need to straight up lie about stuff on top of it to justify it. It's justified enough without it.

But to say he makes stuff up? As I re-read this series and see all the ways various things are set up in advance, I can't help but find that just laughably inaccurate and sad. It just comes off as RochHoch "wanting a turn" to talk shit as much as they think people wanted a turn to praise it.
Yeah, this arc had a bunch of stuff that was either foreshadowed or shed light on other things and you had people acting like Tabata made it up out of nowhere or say thing like this arc had no importance.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,385
I'll give him the Royal Knights arc, if that's what he means. That was a great arc, and where I felt the manga was reaching its stride. But the Dungeon Exploration arc?? With Mars? That shit was dull as dishwater.
The Royal Knights arc is fine, but I just enjoy the others more. If we’re going to call an arc filler that one is closer to the bill than the the one that's wrapping up now, though I wouldn't use that to describe either of them.
 

Xita

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,208
I’ll be honest I never understood why Black Clover gets the amount of hate it does. Like imo I rate it next to My Hero Academia in terms of writing, yet the latter gets more praise than the former even tho it uses a lot of the same tropes as well. Heck at least with Black clover it actually goes out of its way to use its female characters.

Now I’m not saying Black Clover is well written, but to me it really isn’t worse than most Shonen battle manga. Either way I’m probably in the minority regarding this lol.
Not really, at least for me.

Haven’t read the manga, but I watched the first few episodes of the BC anime expecting to hate it based on what I heard but I really liked it and have been meaning to get back to it. Meanwhile I found MHA (the manga at least) to be pretty dull aside from the art and dropped it about seven volumes in. It felt like I was waiting for some big arc that would make me a fan that never happened. So yeah, bad taste club I guess?
 

upandaway

Member
Oct 25, 2017
250
Black Clover has some really cool moments where it shines/bucks the trend and does something interesting with the writing, especially in climaxes where it doesn't go the "normal" way you'd expect from battle shonen. It's not some carefully crafted masterpiece but it's not pretending to be, at all, it just prioritizes different things.

The post about the elf arc feeling like anime filler is very very weird to me. I really don't understand how, it is literally the culmination of all the foreshadowing and sub plots from the beginning of the manga. What is the definition of filler here?
 

RuffMadman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
539
Personally, I’ve had MHA going downhill since the school festival. Doesn’t help that I think the current arc has been going on for too long. On the other hand, I am curious as to where BC will go next now that the current arc has ended. I’m guessing they’ll have the city recover, have a ceremony for promotions, then go into more about devils and the next big bad.
 

BassForever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,732
CT
Black Clover has some really cool moments where it shines/bucks the trend and does something interesting with the writing, especially in climaxes where it doesn't go the "normal" way you'd expect from battle shonen. It's not some carefully crafted masterpiece but it's not pretending to be, at all, it just prioritizes different things.

The post about the elf arc feeling like anime filler is very very weird to me. I really don't understand how, it is literally the culmination of all the foreshadowing and sub plots from the beginning of the manga. What is the definition of filler here?
The opening and ending of the arcs are payoff for stuff the series build up to I agree with that 100%. Stuff with Julius coming back, patri and litch, niro and the first wizard king, and the demons all feel like things the series hinted and I’m surprised the series blew it’s load on all of these in one arc.

What feels like anime filler is the middle chunk, the “half the heroes are now bad guys so we can have good guy vs good guy matches in a ‘battle to the death’”. It reminded me a lot of one of Bleaches filler arcs where there were clones of everyone running around. While we never got a truly lazy mirror match like that Bleach filler did (except in that one dream world battle where they had the villain dreamed up the person who’s body she was possessing) we still got a lot of match ups I couldn’t give a crap about. What made this worse is that all the elves felt like the same breed of “I hate you human and I’m got superior magic because I’m an elf” which got old for me very quickly. We even got retreads of things we’d already seen like with Finral’s brother being bad or two different fights where Mereleona got to show off how freakishly strong she was in the same arc.

The fact the arc also had zero consequences outside of Julius becoming younger further cements why I said “feels like a filler arc made canon”. I’m not gonna deny the canon stuff that was introduced adds a lot to the overall lore, but the entire set up of heroes being possessed and having to fight each other feels like something studio pierrot would come up with for anime filler, and Tabata built an arc around it.
 

Silfer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,156
Not really, at least for me.

Haven’t read the manga, but I watched the first few episodes of the BC anime expecting to hate it based on what I heard but I really liked it and have been meaning to get back to it. Meanwhile I found MHA (the manga at least) to be pretty dull aside from the art and dropped it about seven volumes in. It felt like I was waiting for some big arc that would make me a fan that never happened. So yeah, bad taste club I guess?
If you dropped MHA 7 volumes in then you would've seen "big" arc 3-4 volumes later, which many people consider to be the best or the peak of the series. Though by 7 volumes/60ish chapters, can't really say you didn't give it a fair shot. And the arc that made me a big fan came much before that so maybe even the "big" arc wouldn't have done much.
Personally, I’ve had MHA going downhill since the school festival. Doesn’t help that I think the current arc has been going on for too long. On the other hand, I am curious as to where BC will go next now that the current arc has ended. I’m guessing they’ll have the city recover, have a ceremony for promotions, then go into more about devils and the next big bad.
I've really been enjoying this MHA arc so I'm cool with how long it's going. Though it seems it might end soon.

In regards to Black Clover...it's Diamond Kingdom time baby (or at least I hope). By this time next year, we'll be calling BC an adventure manga lol.

I'm curious about how devil stuff works for other countries because in the Clover Kingdom, they possess 4-leaf clover grimoires that are corrupted. So I wonder if the other kingdoms have their own versions of miracle grimoires that get corrupted.

I also want to see who these people are


Henry being there almost 3 years before his intro means that these are probably upcoming characters too. The one on the right is new for sure. The one of the left could be Luck because of the similar hair but they seem too tall for that, especially since they're in the background. One of them is probably the vice-captain who I'm really looking forward to seeing.
(Also can't wait for people to act like these chapter 2 motherfuckers are just Tabata making stuff up as he goes when they're introduced)
 
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Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,540
NZ
Decided I couldn't wait anymore and started catching up on Kimetsu no Yaiba (was only up to date with the volume releases). Just finished reading 143 and oh shit Zenitsu looks like he means business

Also, RIP Shinobu, you gave it your best shot

Edit: 145

Holy shit Zenitsu

Edit 2: all caught up.

This manga is fucking good
 
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Oct 25, 2017
21,654
Decided I couldn't wait anymore and started catching up on Kimetsu no Yaiba (was only up to date with the volume releases). Just finished reading 143 and oh shit Zenitsu looks like he means business

Also, RIP Shinobu, you have it your best shot

Edit: 145

Holy shit Zenitsu

Edit 2: all caught up.

This manga is fucking good
It really truly is. Quickly became my second fav running shonen
 
Oct 26, 2017
186
Just powered through all of Kimetsu No Yaiba to the current arc (started watching the anime first and picked up the manga during the middle of the spider arc where the anime is)

This is probably my 3rd favorite running shonen jump series (Haikyuu is #1 and One Piece is #2)

Most of the demons and demon slayers have freaking tragic as hell pasts particularly
Akaza and Muichirou

Love the break neck speed and pacing of the series, nothing feel meandering. Also got a huge laugh at some of goofier scenes (soba eating contest, ugly cute "girls", Nezuko head butts)
 

A.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,250
KnY 168:
Ay, Rock Pillar finally arrives just like I was expecting. Good thing too sine I wasn't a fan of Wind pillars dumb alcohol blood since it overlapped to much with what Shinobu did.
 

Thores

Member
Oct 25, 2017
424
Tokyo Shinobi Squad 9
Still digging this! Hope the alliance forged this chapter results in these characters joining the main team in the near future.

Beast Children 10
Maybe I jumped the gun when I said this manga had the potential to survive after last chapter. The pacing feels weird again. I'm really rooting for it to recover.

Double Taisei 11
Okay, I actually like the design of some of the new characters. Which gives me mixed feelings, because out of the Reiwa debuts, this is the manga that I least want to see get a second wind.

Science vs Magic
This was fun! I like the setting they managed to build in a short period of time, the action was good. Really hope that Viz keeps simulpublishing one shots.
 

Weiss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,147
So I wanted to get into Made in Abyss but I was told it has some gross sexualization of children in it. Does the Western release of the manga or the anime adaptation fix that at all?
 

Silfer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,156
Tokyo Shinobi Squad 9
Still digging this! Hope the alliance forged this chapter results in these characters joining the main team in the near future.
I've been enjoying this quite a bit. I remember some line in the first chapter had me going "...huh" because it seemed to suggest a...questionable philosophy but besides that it's been really solid. I like the characters and the way they fight is cool. I'm looking forward to seeing what it looks like in more intricate arcs in the future.

Really I've been enjoying all the new series from this year to varying degrees and hope Jump isn't in a rush to cancel anything.
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,689
Wotakoi v1-2
It might be because I've just gotten into a relationship again but I'm melting at this, it is so cute