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Mark Hamill Once Again Expresses Unhappiness With New ‘Star Wars’ Sequels

Stiler

Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
6,659
Seesaw15 said:
Ehh, the original three being back together on screen wouldn't have really worked for anything more than fan service.
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Fan service? Did it make any sense in respect to how ROTJ ended that Solo would end up going back to being a two bit smuggler or that Leia would stop be a diplomat and leader of the republic and go back to leading a small rebel force or Luke would just up and go off by himself?

None of that really fit with their characters and where they ended up by the end of ROTJ, these were people that would have naturally stayed in touch throughout the life, so no having them on screen at one point in time in the new trilogy would have in no way felt like simply "fan service" to me, it would have felt logical and like something those characters would naturally do. Have Solo still be by Leia's side and have Luke come visit from time to time while he's out training or an an adventure.
 
UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Praetorpwj said:
The new trilogy will end up being a totally irrelevant slice of nothing and Hamill can take comfort in being the best part of it. Like the prequels it plays better in the imagination.
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Depends what your expectations were, if your expectation was merely reasonably well directed, acted films that are of a general higher quality than the prequels in the Star Wars universe, you probably more or less got that.

If you were expecting something to pay off 30 years of hype you had building in your head and give you some kind of cathartic moment(s) that took you back to your childhood ... good luck with that one.
 
liquidtmd

liquidtmd

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,134
Seesaw15 said:
Ehh, the original three being back together on screen wouldn't have really worked for anything more than fan service.
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Whilst you're not wrong, so much of the new SW ventures from 2015 onwards is done purely for fan service

It's a franchise from 40 odd years ago.

Out of all the things they've done, would ONE scene with the old guard have a smile and laugh been worse than what we've already had in some respects?

And whilst I've liked some of their output, Mark's right about the small stuff with 3P0. That it didn't even register to Rian is a bit depressing
 
Prattle

Prattle

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
995
Garou said:
On one hand I can understand why he is not happy, this role is one of the defining things of his life, so of course he would have been open for something better/more.
On the other hand, building the whole new trilogy around him would be a mistake, the new characters wouldn't have had a chance to breathe if they classic 3 were the focal point all the time.
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It was epsiode 7, 8 and 9 of the Skywalker saga. Not a new Trilogy.

The mystery boxes should have been built for the new characters to explore later.
 
Rendering...

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Zeel said:
I totally understand him, Rian is a hack who basically ruined Star Wars now, something even Lucas didn't manage with the shitty prequels. Oh let's just subvert all expectations, because good filmmaking is simply about doing everything opposite to what people expect, even if the choices make no sense at all.
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It's clear you don't have the faintest clue what constitutes good writing, since you seem to have missed Luke's great character development in TLJ, which wouldn't have been possible to write without an intimate understanding of 1) the entire Original Trilogy, and 2) the nuts and bolts of effective storytelling on paper and in the language of film.
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,855
Praetorpwj said:
The new trilogy will end up being a totally irrelevant slice of nothing and Hamill can take comfort in being the best part of it. Like the prequels it plays better in the imagination.
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The prequels had the luxury of having novels, novelizations, cartoons, comics and games that completely elevated the source material and it overall left Star Wars in a good spot.
 
Prattle

Prattle

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
995
UltraMagnus said:
Depends what your expectations were, if your expectation was merely reasonably well directed, acted films that are of a general higher quality than the prequels in the Star Wars universe, you probably more or less got that.

If you were expecting something to pay off 30 years of hype you had building in your head and give you some kind of cathartic moment(s) that took you back to your childhood ... good luck with that one.
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They managed it with the Lord of the Rings. Why not Star Wars.
 
KingSnake

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,999
I love it when people blame Ryan for the lack of a scene with all three together considering what happened in TFA.

I want only to take a moment and appreciate how Han got a movie and Luke got a movie in this trilogy and how both characters are so much better drawn and so much less 1-dimensional at the end of their stories. Too bad that Leia didn't get her own movie in episode 9.

And this happened while it allowed new characters to appear and take over the story.
 
Praetorpwj

Praetorpwj

Member
Nov 21, 2017
4,361
UltraMagnus said:
Depends what your expectations were, if your expectation was merely reasonably well directed, acted films that are of a general higher quality than the prequels in the Star Wars universe, you probably more or less got that.

If you were expecting something to pay off 30 years of hype you had building in your head and give you some kind of cathartic moment(s) that took you back to your childhood ... good luck with that one.
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I was expecting .....something. To have all the key elements in place, all the actors still alive, near unlimited budget and then come up with an emotionally uninteresting arc that first copies and then deconstructs the original trilogy (depending on who is in charge that day) is very disappointing. I can't see how a third film that follows a second which effectively shut down every interesting plot thread is going to salvage that. Oh wait they get to kill off Lando I suppose.
 
Prattle

Prattle

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
995
Rendering... said:
It's clear you don't have the faintest clue what constitutes good writing, since you seem to have missed Luke's great character development in TLJ, which wouldn't have been possible to write without an intimate understanding of 1) the entire Original Trilogy, and 2) the nuts and bolts of effective storytelling on paper and in the language of film.
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Oh, let's turn Luke into a crazy crackpot Yoda type.

What great writing, what a twist, what a clever way to show we understand the original trilogy.

It's like poetry. They rhymes.

(The character development was non-existant, shoehorning the dice in was diabolical.)
 
Laser Man

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,683
Bog said:
He's right. They had no respect for the original trilogy or characters.
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In the end, they were nothing more than marketing material to get the nostalgia fans into the seats. That was kinda expected to some degree, but the writing really wasn't hiding that fact well at all.
 
Replicant

Replicant

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MN
Rendering... said:
It's clear you don't have the faintest clue what constitutes good writing, since you seem to have missed Luke's great character development in TLJ, which wouldn't have been possible to write without an intimate understanding of 1) the entire Original Trilogy, and 2) the nuts and bolts of effective storytelling on paper and in the language of film.
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What was Luke's great character development? I totally was down with him as a character in hiding or feeling guilt from what happened, but how he just gives up is not Luke. His scene with Yoda set Luke back to his Empire days of not understanding the force.
 
Replicant

Replicant

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MN
Autumn said:
Must pissed him off what Ford received.
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I don't think money has much to do with it.

It's the fact that had him bust his ass to get into shape, grow a beard only to be in a movie for literally 29 secs. And then another movie where he barely does anything.
 
Blue Ninja

Blue Ninja

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,766
Belgium
Han's death was a good one, imo. I can see why Mark feels otherwise, considering he really wanted the three of them to be back on-screen together, but Han's death was a good catalyst for Kylo Ren's further development.

Also, I thought it was confirmed Hamill was back for 9 as well?
 
Replicant

Replicant

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MN
Blue Ninja said:
Han's death was a good one, imo. I can see why Mark feels otherwise, considering he really wanted the three of them to be back on-screen together, but Han's death was a good catalyst for Kylo Ren's further development.

Also, I thought it was confirmed Hamill was back for 9 as well?
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He's back but it's a very small minor role. Probably force ghost for one scene..maybe the ending. He wasn't on set very long. A few days
 
Jecht

Jecht

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,650
He wanted to participate more, can't blame him really. But his character is so very important to the films in either case and he has some of my favorite scenes in VIII regardless.
 
Prine

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Luke is right once again.

God dammit Rian, you pleb.
 
subpar spatula

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,139
Mark wanted to have a more standard space adventure with his friends. Disney wanted to upset the balance and make a simple space trek into something... smart? Oh well, it made a bunch of money at the box office and got generally OK reviews. Life will go on. OT Star Wars will be the one remembered for decades to come so there's no need to worry, SW Fans.
 
Surfinn

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I can't believe Disney silenced and forced him into outright praise of-

Oh

Mark is a treasure and I'm glad he offers his criticism of the films. I hope he gets a significant moment in 9.
 

Deleted member 4494

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
I feel bad for Mark because, well, out of everyone I think he has internalized his character so much from the OT, and integrated himself so much with SW fans, fandom, the events, etc., that he has actually gotten too close to the material at this point and probably does himself a huge disservice in this (even if he *is* right about the new movies, which I don't really know). I just imagine him feeling like all these people taking a stab at what he sees as very much his story -- which he almost has complete personal / emotional ownership of now that Fischer is gone and, lets face it, Harrison never cared much -- and people aren't writing it like what he imagined. After so much time and personal investment, and now as a sort of a watchdog, that has to sting pretty bad. To not completely lash out as I imagine he'd actually want to, he probably has developed a serious amount of patience, or at least has managed to compartmentalize pretty well.

For the record, I think TLJ is great and has an awesome send off for his character, but I get him not feeling that way.
 
Seesaw15

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,819
liquidtmd said:
Whilst you're not wrong, so much of the new SW ventures from 2015 onwards is done purely for fan service

It's a franchise from 40 odd years ago.

Out of all the things they've done, would ONE scene with the old guard have a smile and laugh been worse than what we've already had in some respects?

And whilst I've liked some of their output, Mark's right about the small stuff with 3P0. That it didn't even register to Rian is a bit depressing
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Its true that most of Disney's output has been purely fan service which is why I'm shocked/impressed they didn't go for the easy layup with the original trio. 30 years have passed in universe. Life happens and people drift apart. I got the sense that they had a good 15-25 years of happiness but when we come into the story only Han dying would get Luke to confront Leia again. I'm sure if Carrie Fisher hadn't passed away they would have tried to get them all in the same shot for episode 9 in a really forced way.

And for the emotional weight of the scene it would have been weird if Luke went out of his way to acknowledge C3P0. I know they went on adventures together but I always saw his relationship with C3P0 as an acquaintance from work/someone you only keep up with because they are a friends with R2D2. This is the first time he's seen his sister since he helped radicalize her son/the father of her child died. Lukes grieving and knows he's on a suicide mission. He just wants to apologize to his sis.
 
0ptimusPayne

0ptimusPayne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,754
He's not wrong. From a business perspective yea they've milked these movies good, but clearly they could've used more time in the oven IMO especially episode 8.
 
SuperBanana

SuperBanana

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,743
Drewton said:
Luke visited by Yoda, and Luke's final conversation with Leia were all amazing moments.
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The bit with Yoda was ruined by having him act silly and stupid like he did in Empire. You know, when he was tricking Luke into thinking he was a dumb little creature and NOT a Jefi master. The moment luke realized he dropped the act. But as a ghost he decides to do it again because Rian has no idea what the characters are like and this is a blatant tell of it.
 
Trickster

Trickster

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,533
Jesus christ at the 3PO thing. How can anyone defend Rian Johnson if that was his approach to the movie?
 
hank_tree

hank_tree

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,596
I do think it's a bummer we didn't get a scene with Luke, Leia and Han. But can't blame TLJ for that.
 
Amiablepercy

Amiablepercy

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
3,587
California
Seesaw15 said:
Its true that most of Disney's output has been purely fan service which is why I'm shocked/impressed they didn't go for the easy layup with the original trio. 30 years have passed in universe. Life happens and people drift apart. I got the sense that they had a good 15-25 years of happiness but when we come into the story only Han dying would get Luke to confront Leia again. I'm sure if Carrie Fisher hadn't passed away they would have tried to get them all in the same shot for episode 9 in a really forced way.

And for the emotional weight of the scene it would have been weird if Luke went out of his way to acknowledge C3P0. I know they went on adventures together but I always saw his relationship with C3P0 as an acquaintance from work/someone you only keep up with because they are a friends with R2D2. This is the first time he's seen his sister since he helped radicalize her son/the father of her child died. Lukes grieving and knows he's on a suicide mission. He just wants to apologize to his sis.
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I thought the sequels were entertaining/fun but I had more emotional investment and liked The Revenge of the Sith more than any of of them. That says something to me about the new films.
 
Gambit

Gambit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,177
Lakeside said:
I've read so much about not wanting to steal the focus from the new characters. Does anyone really care for any of the new characters in the way we did for he original crew? I mean BB8 is cute but otherwise I don't know anyone that cares about any of them.
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That's where I am at. Give me characters that make me want to stay with them!
After 7 I was invested in Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo, Luke, Leia and Han had a satisfying conclusion (including another flight on board the Falcon).
After 8 I am mildly interested in where Kylo's story goes. Rey is only interesting in relationship to Kylo not on her own. Finn has become meaningless, Poe a charisma vacuum (despite Oscar Isaac!), Luke dead, Leia unfortunately unavailable.

So yes the old characters didn't steal the show but we were given very little in return.

Also I thought Han's role in 7 was just about the perfect amount for the old guard. The play a vital role but are integrated with the new gang and elevate them.

it's Luke's story that bothers me the most. At least if it hadn't ended there would still be hope. Now he'll forever have died of force projecting. Meh.
 
SuperRaddy

SuperRaddy

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
882
Replicant said:
He's not wrong. Han, Leia and Luke should ahve been on screen together at some point. This new trilogy was rushed and wasted potential as far as the eye can see. Han had to die because Harrison wouldn't do the movie otherwise and that's lame. Luke deserved a hell of a lot more than what we got. And they lost the chance of what they planned to do with Leia.

As it stands, Episode 7-9 will be a huge disservice to the first 6 movies. All of the original trilogy characters have been 100% wasted. Even Chewie.
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The new movies have been dreadful, I really wish there were better but it feels like a similar sequence story wise to ep 4-6.

I much preferred rogue one and even solo to this new trilogy so far. Episode 9 will be so pridictable now with the light saving the universe from the dark (yawn)
 
Seesaw15

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,819
Amiablepercy said:
I thought the sequels were entertaining/fun but I had more emotional investment and liked The Revenge of the Sith more than any of of them. That says something to me about the new films.
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That probably has a lot to do with Eugene Mcgregor acting his ass off in that movie. I don't really have any emotional investment in any star wars media but I'm pretty invested in Adam Driver just because he's a compelling on screen presence.
 
DrLight66

DrLight66

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
296
So far the only good Disney Star Wars film has been Rogue One (despite Cassian being one of the worst characters in the entire series). The Force Awakens was complete trash and JJ Abrams deserves all the blame in the world for basically just rehashing A New Hope's plot with nonsensical plotholes and painting the entire new trilogy into a corner with nowhere to go.

Among other major problems, the way The Last Jedi handled Luke was just embarrassing and insulting. I didn't think the sequels would ever do what the prequels did - make me not care at all about the 3rd entry in the new trilogy, and I love the original trilogy (with the exception of the ewoks and how they nearly ruined RotJ).
 
PRrambo_

PRrambo_

PlayStation.jif
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,870
Yeah Rian's take on Luke will always be a let down for me personally, but kudos for trying something different.
 
SkyMasterson

SkyMasterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,001
As much as I enjoyed TLJ, when I had left the theater, I had an emptiness in regards to looking forward to Episode IX.

Han, Luke and Leia are all dead now. I love Rey, but Poe and Finn were heavily underdeveloped in TLJ.

Having multiple directors for a trilogy was a bad idea. Should have had JJ or Rian have them all and give them the time that they needed.
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
Tried to rewatch TLJ on Netflix , couldn't get through it. I saw it 3x in theaters too, I realize that , despite its quality there ka nothing in it I really ever want to return to. Of course illbe there for IX but I think the magic is gone for me. I say all this knowing I'll still be spending ungodly amounts of $ when Galaxys Edge opens here at Disneyland 😅
 
UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Praetorpwj said:
I was expecting .....something. To have all the key elements in place, all the actors still alive, near unlimited budget and then come up with an emotionally uninteresting arc that first copies and then deconstructs the original trilogy (depending on who is in charge that day) is very disappointing. I can't see how a third film that follows a second which effectively shut down every interesting plot thread is going to salvage that. Oh wait they get to kill off Lando I suppose.
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There's lots of directions they can go now that they don't have the baggage of the old cast to be honest. It's all up to them.
 
Razgriz-Specter

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,505
I'll be happy once this trilogy is over and they hopefully move on to something new.
And for the love of christ not ragtag Rebels vs mighty Empire v3.
 
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