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[MinnMax] Media Molecule Co-Founder Mark Healey Reflects On LittleBigPlanet, Dreams, And His Exit

Zebesian-X

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Dec 3, 2018
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View: https://youtu.be/she0P0pTDbU?si=Gk7UjN6fTa6ut2fu

View: https://x.com/minnmaxshow/status/1787517680926220795?s=46&t=gbYgL_rvpbF6qlAMTodElw
MinnMax's Ben Hanson talks to Media Molecule's co-founder Mark Healey about his recent departure from the beloved PlayStation studio, the origins of LittleBigPlanet, his biggest regrets on Dreams, how he created the first indie game on Steam, and his current passion project about art history. Support long-form interviews like this by subscribing to MinnMax's YouTube channel or unlock the podcast version of this interview and directly support independent games media by checking us out on Patreon.
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Check out the timestamps below to jump to a particular discussion...

00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:42 - Mark Healey's life after Media Molecule
00:03:27 - Developing his passion project
00:09:01 - Why Mark isn't at Media Molecule anymore
00:11:59 - Dreams needed online multiplayer and PC support
00:13:59 - Media Molecule's future
00:16:13 - Embracing art history with his solo project
00:21:39 - Love for the Commodore 64
00:22:58 - Working at Bullfrog with Peter Molyneux
00:25:12 - "It's true that I did go a bit mad"
00:31:01 - Avoiding crunch
00:33:28 - Rag Doll Kung Fu was the first indie game on Steam
00:35:40 - Valve and The Room's portal tech demo
00:43:27 - The origins of LittleBigPlanet
00:46:33 - Microsoft and LittleBigPlanet
00:49:03 - Thoughts on Sackboy: A Big Adventure
00:50:05 - LittleBigPlanet 3 servers going offline
00:53:00 - Free-to-play LittleBigPlanet Hub
00:54:00 - Dreams origins, wanting to call it LittleBigPlanet "3 or 4"
00:56:34 - Dreams' "Golden Ticket" of letting the community sell their creations
01:00:24 - Thoughts on Dreams in retrospect
01:03:05 - What Mark misses about Media Molecule
01:06:04 - Thoughts on the game industry
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Can't be understated how much I loved Dreams, just randomly diving in every month or two and seeing what the community was getting up to. Fascinating to hear Mark speak on the project in hindsight, a PC Version and multiplayer definitely would have brought it to the next level
 
Moebius

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Oct 28, 2017
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I really want to watch this but it's going to be painful. I love Dreams and wish it would have gotten that PC release. It would have exploded in popularity.
 

level

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May 25, 2023
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Dreams was one of the best games of the last generation. I sunk hundreds of hours into it.
 
Angie

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View: https://youtu.be/she0P0pTDbU?t=839


At 14:30

He says from what he understands, Mm's new IP is more of a game than a creative tool. Sony let them do whatever after LBP but now Mm needs to make something "people can have faith in on a console".

He talks a bit about Dreams, which as he points out, is the result of Sony giving them a lot of creative freedom, after the success of LBP which, as Healey puts it, caused them to do some "mistakes"


Also talks about PC/MP; he regrets not pushing PC more since he admits Dreams was better suited for it, and he also regrets not implementing MP functions from day 1 of the game
 
Zukkoyaki

Zukkoyaki

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Oct 25, 2017
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This was the logical assumption but it's nice to have a confirmation*

*not technically confirmed but close

Healey has always been a real one. I need to really listen to this full interview. The snippets of information I've seen suggest he's sober to the missteps MM took in the last decade .
 
JaseMath

JaseMath

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I respect what Dreams attempted, but Mm needs to pivot away from the user-generated content model and back to something akin to LBP1.
 
PaulloDEC

PaulloDEC

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Dreams is an incredible product, but it clearly lacked the kind of wider appeal that LBP had. I do wish they'd been able to launch it on PC though; I feel like that audience might've appreciated it in a way that perhaps the console market didn't.

Still, I'm stoked to play any new MM game, especially if it's anything like Tearaway.
 
HouseDragon

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Dec 4, 2017
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Dreams not being on PC is the single biggest mistake that game had.
They had Roblox-level potential on their hands... and they just squandered it by letting it sit only on PS4. So sad.

Also, Tearaway is my favorite game of theirs, so excited to see what's next!
 
Drachen

Drachen

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May 3, 2021
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I'm honestly very glad to hear that as someone who loved the LBP games. Obviously Dreams is really impressive, something like that is just not for me at all.
 
Bishop89

Bishop89

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this-pleases-imhotep-the-mummy.gif
 
TheNatureBoy

TheNatureBoy

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Very smart and logical decision. They should be the type of developer that puts out smaller type titles every few years hopefully.
 
Random Character

Random Character

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Nov 21, 2017
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Thank God this will give them more breathing room at least from Hiroki possibly shutting them down. Though if they miss development milestones I still wouldn't be shocked if he gave them the axe. Still hoping for the best with this new IP from Media Molecule.
 
msdstc

msdstc

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HouseDragon said:
Dreams not being on PC is the single biggest mistake that game had.
They had Roblox-level potential on their hands... and they just squandered it by letting it sit only on PS4. So sad.

Also, Tearaway is my favorite game of theirs, so excited to see what's next!
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This is such a ridiculous talking about comparing it to Roblox. Beyond user generation, the games have absolutely nothing in common in terms of appeal. Dreams was dead from the get go
 
Lord Fanny

Lord Fanny

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Apr 25, 2020
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It's for the best. I know some people liked Dreams and the idea was neat, but there was no market for that
 
St. Elmo's Fire

St. Elmo's Fire

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HouseDragon said:
Dreams not being on PC is the single biggest mistake that game had.
They had Roblox-level potential on their hands.... and they just squandered it by letting it sit only on PS4. So sad.
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Not in a million years.
Random Character said:
Not impossible for Sumo to do a new Sackboy or LBP game in the future but at least their next XDev Game Project Carbon doesn't seem to be related to LBP at all.
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Yeah Project Carbon might be the leaked sci-fi game (people here called it Ooze...). I think we will find out very soon what it is.
 
YukiroCTX

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msdstc said:
This is such a ridiculous talking about comparing it to Roblox. Beyond user generation, the games have absolutely nothing in common in terms of appeal. Dreams was dead from the get go
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Agree, I don't even think MM knew what they were doing with dreams either which is part of why it was never going to catch on. I think MM really completely went out of touch when it came to Dreams. It wasnt even some nice hook like a good in game world for socialization where people could share their creations or something.

I'm up for something more tangible, So many games recent times shows still how creative platformers can be. Mm were really great at utilizing vita's features for Tearaway, I think it would be nice to have another match what Asobi are trying to do with dualsense.
 
Zukkoyaki

Zukkoyaki

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Oct 25, 2017
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Plot twist: Media Molecule is making Bloodborne 2... but with a chalice dungeon level editor.
 
Soap

Soap

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Oct 27, 2017
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Honestly, their single player story-mode in Dreams was actually very good (but short) so the talent is clearly there to pivot away from the create-a-game Dreams was.
 
amara

amara

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Nov 23, 2021
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Tren was one of the best puzzle games of 2023. I'm down for anything they put out
 
KeRaSh

KeRaSh

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Oct 26, 2017
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Wait, somehow I thought they closed Mm. Was that just a round of layoffs?
This is good news.
 
BrickArts295

BrickArts295

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Oct 26, 2017
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Honestly Tearaway was GOTY material on the Vita. They got the potential to do something really great, specially with the Dualsense.
 
pants

pants

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HouseDragon said:
Dreams not being on PC is the single biggest mistake that game had.
They had Roblox-level potential on their hands... and they just squandered it by letting it sit only on PS4. So sad.

Also, Tearaway is my favorite game of theirs, so excited to see what's next!
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Im just an armchair expert weighing in, but proliferating the Dreams tools / sandbox in a world with Fortnite/Roblox makes so much sense.

Kind of curious why it didn't happen.
 

Ara63

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Nov 21, 2023
319
Multiplayer support was the bigger thing compared to platform.

You could have put Dreams on whatever platform you want, but as long as it was still strictly for one player only it would never have caught on.
 
Temascos

Temascos

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Oct 27, 2017
12,607
It's a shame Dreams didn't work out, I really liked the story mode and Tren which was added later. It really shows MM have the capability and talent but they need to make something that has a good, lengthy campaign that can be played solo or co-op (Online or local) with some light customisation.
 

LTG

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Nov 4, 2017
327
Sumo Digital are owned by Tencent, I don't think they'll be able to make a new Sackboy game
 
MadMod

MadMod

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Dec 4, 2017
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Dreams was cut off at the knees by not being multiplayer and PC...

Then they kept it dead. Two things which they should have added but didn't...
 
Dust

Dust

C H A O S
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Oct 25, 2017
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Part of me hopes they pull a Naughty Dog and make a gritty game out of their field.
 
Callibretto

Callibretto

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Oct 25, 2017
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MadMod said:
Dreams was cut off at the knees by not being multiplayer and PC...

Then they kept it dead. Two things which they should have added but didn't...
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I'm sure they tried adding multiplayer, but maybe something in how the game is built make it hard to implement. LBP had multiplayer, so it must be one of the thing they want to do in Dreams but just couldn't do it in the end.
 
MadMod

MadMod

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Dec 4, 2017
2,872
Callibretto said:
I'm sure they tried adding multiplayer, but maybe something in how the game is built make it hard to implement. LBP had multiplayer, so it must be one of the thing they want to do in Dreams but just couldn't do it in the end.
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Literally only wanted online Multiplayer to play with my partner... you could only do splitscreen (barely worked) lol. Dumb game. Hope they learnt their lesson from it, I tried very hard to get into it.

Plus Tren should have been released as a standalone. (another unsurprisingly dumb decision)
 
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