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Marvel Cinematic Universe | We had a good run, and now it's over
- Thread starter Deleted member 1248
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That fucking thread is a dumpster fire. It is toxic as fuck.
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People don't understand that Sony Pictures has NOTHING to do with PlayStation so they let their stupid console warrior mentality shine through.
I fucking hate discussing films with this community bc its toxic. ResetEra is becoming NeoGaf lite
I expect this to keep going back and forth. This is gonna be a continuous public spat until a deal is made. I'd love to jump straight to the ending though.
Well. At least we got two great Spidey films out of this and got to see him interact with the rest of Marvel
User Warned: Off-Site Drama
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Just throwing this out there -- there's a principle in IP law that if you contribute to the development/upkeep of IP, you take part ownership of the IP.
Sony probably forced Disney to contract out of this right, but stranger things have happened.
Sony probably forced Disney to contract out of this right, but stranger things have happened.
To voice my opinion in a thread that isn't being filled with Raimi nonsense, I was talking with my friend about this and we came to the conclusion that there's too much money on the table for both parties to lose and too much fan ire to deal with.
The way I see it, there are three roads for Spidey now:
1) Spidey enters the Venom-verse: It's an easy thing for Sony to do, but it also means a lot of things that have been brought up by the two prior MCU movies have to now be avoided. Who is Aunt May dating? Where did the suit come from? What about all that shit about Spidey being an Avenger? Sony would have to willingly scrap all this backstory about Spider-Man just to have Spider-Man be in their universe. Now, they could just drop Spidey in and answer none of these questions, trying to play if off like Venom 2/non-MCU Spidey just has all these things. But, considering how much of Spidey's characterization and plot hinges on Tony, the Avengers, and MCU things, it'd be a real rough fit.
2a) Sony recasts: Sony totally could reboot Spider-Man for the 4th time in 15 years, but imagine the team that has to market such a reboot. They'd have to clarify that this Spider-Man isn't in the MCU, isn't Tom Holland, and is also someone you should definitely go see. People went with the reboot of the Andrew Garfield Spidey because no-one really liked him. People love the Tom Holland Spidey, so I think a reboot at the peak of the characters popularity is just a dumbass move.
2b) Disney willingly Poochies Spidey: Let's see how that'll go, just hastily removing a character with no mention of where they are, especially if said character is one of the lynchpins of your universe.
3) Disney and Sony broker a compromise: Considering how the reaction to this news has been to save this deal, both Disney and Sony would be foolish to ignore what the fans want, especially after the fans helped Sony their highest grossing movie of all time. Regardless of what the straw was, I think both parties should now realize that people want Spidey to remain in the MCU. While I think people are more than willing to rush to one of these studios' sides, Disney's upfront demand for 50% co-prod in exchange for a larger piece of the pie and Rothman's outright refusal instead of negotiation are two incredible dumbass moves. After today, Sony must realize that while Spidey alone is valuable, it was Marvel's creative direction that catapulted the character to a billion. I know, Spider-Verse is incredible, but look what happened to Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs, The Lego Movie, The Smurfs, etc. I don't think one good film should excuse the series of mis-steps Avi Arad et al. made with Spidey (including firing Raimi).
At the end of the day, my dumbass amateur analysis is this: if Disney listened """to the fans""" about James Gunn, they should be listening to the fans about this.
Also, as a sidenote to the Raimi fanboys, I get that you love Spider-Man 2, but polluting every fucking thread about the MCU Spidey with variants of "MCU bad Raimi god" is retroactively making me turn on these films. These films are great films, but ardently insisting that every non-Raimi film is complete and total garbage is just shitposting and being annoying.
The way I see it, there are three roads for Spidey now:
1) Spidey enters the Venom-verse: It's an easy thing for Sony to do, but it also means a lot of things that have been brought up by the two prior MCU movies have to now be avoided. Who is Aunt May dating? Where did the suit come from? What about all that shit about Spidey being an Avenger? Sony would have to willingly scrap all this backstory about Spider-Man just to have Spider-Man be in their universe. Now, they could just drop Spidey in and answer none of these questions, trying to play if off like Venom 2/non-MCU Spidey just has all these things. But, considering how much of Spidey's characterization and plot hinges on Tony, the Avengers, and MCU things, it'd be a real rough fit.
2a) Sony recasts: Sony totally could reboot Spider-Man for the 4th time in 15 years, but imagine the team that has to market such a reboot. They'd have to clarify that this Spider-Man isn't in the MCU, isn't Tom Holland, and is also someone you should definitely go see. People went with the reboot of the Andrew Garfield Spidey because no-one really liked him. People love the Tom Holland Spidey, so I think a reboot at the peak of the characters popularity is just a dumbass move.
2b) Disney willingly Poochies Spidey: Let's see how that'll go, just hastily removing a character with no mention of where they are, especially if said character is one of the lynchpins of your universe.
3) Disney and Sony broker a compromise: Considering how the reaction to this news has been to save this deal, both Disney and Sony would be foolish to ignore what the fans want, especially after the fans helped Sony their highest grossing movie of all time. Regardless of what the straw was, I think both parties should now realize that people want Spidey to remain in the MCU. While I think people are more than willing to rush to one of these studios' sides, Disney's upfront demand for 50% co-prod in exchange for a larger piece of the pie and Rothman's outright refusal instead of negotiation are two incredible dumbass moves. After today, Sony must realize that while Spidey alone is valuable, it was Marvel's creative direction that catapulted the character to a billion. I know, Spider-Verse is incredible, but look what happened to Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs, The Lego Movie, The Smurfs, etc. I don't think one good film should excuse the series of mis-steps Avi Arad et al. made with Spidey (including firing Raimi).
At the end of the day, my dumbass amateur analysis is this: if Disney listened """to the fans""" about James Gunn, they should be listening to the fans about this.
Also, as a sidenote to the Raimi fanboys, I get that you love Spider-Man 2, but polluting every fucking thread about the MCU Spidey with variants of "MCU bad Raimi god" is retroactively making me turn on these films. These films are great films, but ardently insisting that every non-Raimi film is complete and total garbage is just shitposting and being annoying.
Nah, this ain't done, I get the feeling someone will blink before the third movie starts production
Someone might blink before Feige has to go on stage in front of 6,000 rabid sleep deprived Disney fans on Saturday.
Part of me thinks those tweets are posturing, meant to stop """fans"" from being toxic assholes on social media by pushing blame on Disney.
Part of me thinks those tweets are telling the truth. Disney wants more money and is withholding Feige till they get it. While I don't think that 50% value being bandied about is right, if you helped make Sony's highest grossing movie, I think 5% of first-weekend sales isn't enough.
I honestly think that Sony and Disney will end up signing a two-picture deal with Feige to end Spidey's run in the MCU, with a potential to renew if things change.
Part of me thinks those tweets are telling the truth. Disney wants more money and is withholding Feige till they get it. While I don't think that 50% value being bandied about is right, if you helped make Sony's highest grossing movie, I think 5% of first-weekend sales isn't enough.
I honestly think that Sony and Disney will end up signing a two-picture deal with Feige to end Spidey's run in the MCU, with a potential to renew if things change.
Yeah but as we learned with the Synder Cut, this shit will keep going.
It won't, but it at least gives Sony a plausible story: Arrogant Disney stormed in, asked for more cash, and Sony stood up to them. At the end of the day, regardless of what the actual truth is, everyone sides with Disney because Sony was once the holdout for Spidey in the MCU and Sony """ruined""" Spidey at one time. This way, Sony gets to tell "its truth".
That's what I figure as well, it might take a few months or so of them arguing in public but I expect they will come to an agreement again considering the heavy backlash from the fanbase and public. I want to see how Feige responds at D23 when asked about this/Sony's statement...
At the very least, I think we can all appreciate the 5 incredible MCU movies we got out of Holland's Spider-Man. Maybe it's over, maybe they'll work something out, maybe Sony will come crawling back after 5 Spidey flicks underperform and their second attempt at a Spidey Cinematic Universe goes up in flames. We'll see.
There is plenty still on the horizon. Remember kids...
And the real big guns are still to come...
If anything I bet this whole situation lit a fire under Feige's ass.
There is plenty still on the horizon. Remember kids...
And the real big guns are still to come...
If anything I bet this whole situation lit a fire under Feige's ass.
Unless this is parody its a really stupid take.
Obviously not only because the movie division has nothing to do with the console division but also because the latest rumblings is that both consoles will be roughly the same but with the PS5 having the edge.
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As insane as it would be for Sony to give into a 50% demand, given how much leverage they have, it wouldn't be an unfair split.
Just look at the value MCU brings to the table: Sony spent $250 million producing Amazing Spiderman and after marketing costs, The movie generated $70 million profit.
For Homecoming and FFH, production costs declined tremendous ($175 mil, then $160 mil) and profits have gone through the roof ($200 million, then some ungodly number)
Even at 50/50, Sony's in a better place than they otherwise would have been.
From Sony's perspective though, they hold the IP and have the experience needed to make great films w/o Feige and Co. Why would they bend the knee?
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This is IP horseshit. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
How awkward is MCU gonna be with Spidey just "gone?"
I just can't care about this cuz ultimately something will work out between those two giant studios. Still sucks cuz I was really looking forward to a third "home-xxxx" Spidey movie with Holland.
How awkward is MCU gonna be with Spidey just "gone?"
I just can't care about this cuz ultimately something will work out between those two giant studios. Still sucks cuz I was really looking forward to a third "home-xxxx" Spidey movie with Holland.
Whatever will be, will be. I think an agreement will be reached. If it doesn't then I am confident that Sony will run the franchise into the ground and give Marvel Studios an opening to get him back. It's Sony. Fucking up is what they do.
In other news, Martin Freeman says Black Panther 2 won't start filming until 2021.
This makes me sad :(
Last year James Gunn was fired and then rehired 6 months later, so maybe there is still hope left. Feige will probably do some backroom deal to keep both Disney and Sony happy.
Anyway, I am not really interested in non-mcu spider-man or his related characters. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last year James Gunn was fired and then rehired 6 months later, so maybe there is still hope left. Feige will probably do some backroom deal to keep both Disney and Sony happy.
Anyway, I am not really interested in non-mcu spider-man or his related characters. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It is a horrible take and it wasn't a parody. It was a real tweet that was posted by him he just deleted it.
Yeah. I can't post it again because I got warned the last time. Don't understand how I can get warned for posting an old tweet by someone who posts news and is even verified on twitter for it.
That tweet felt like just an angry reaction to the news just breaking. He's since deleted it.
OP
OP
I wonder what other actor Disney will trot out. This whole thing has gotten crazy very quickly.
Good luck trying to get a fourth reboot off the ground is Tom Holland isn't willing to play ball.
Last year corporate suits got Gunn fired (temporarily, but still set GotG3 back years), and now this year we got corporate morons dropping the Spider-Man deal. What shit will the MCU have to endure next year?
Like what happens in this case? Can Holland just flat our refuse even though he is under contract?
They will be able to force him to do it but I doubt they will. Your lead actor actively not wanting to be there is a recipe for disaster. Hugo Weaving also had a contract with Marvel for more appearances as the Red Skull but Feige didn't act on it because the actor didn't want to do it.
Disney is not just wanting control for the movies. They want to retake the whole license. I can see why Sony is resisting.
Yeah and Disney has been making chess moves to make that their brand, not Sony's. Some people - even in the other thread - think Sony owns the IP, not just the movie rights. They have been relatively successful, they got the remaining merch rights and animated TV rights that belonged to Sony after all, and this last move is a huge one to try to go for a check mate later. Sony is seeing this too and is sacrificing a rook or the queen to try to save the king.
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