Discussion in 'Video Games' started by zombiejames, Sep 4, 2018.
I remember quite a few downgrade believers in that thread said they know for a fact that it is downgraded because they have eyes and they can see it. Well today a video of Neil deGrass popped up in my YT feed, and I couldn't help but chuckle for first few minutes of that video.
The shots i posted are in sync (they are like .15 secs off) and from the IGN video. You can go ahead and watch the video yourself. Those explosions on the left never happened on the right. And there were more aswell. I just thought 3 pictures were enough to show the difference. I could have posted 20 pics and cluttered the thread.
Do that, devs.
So, looking closely at that scene again, it seems like the main big change here is the intensity of the dynamic light. Both versions use a dynamic light during the explosion but it's higher intensity in the demo. In the final game the light doesn't seem to penetrate objects in front of it. Like, you see those ceiling bits? In the demo, everything lights up - the explosion happens behind the ceiling piece but the opposite side is orange. They also use a strong radial blur. In the full game, it seems like the light can be occluded perhaps.
It looks like there are a lot of particles in both. Would be interested to hear the reason for the changes. I could see visibility being the reason for toning down the radial blur - they still use a similar effect but it's less strong. I do think it still appears quite detailed in the final game if you look at all the individual objects in the scene. It's difficult to make out in the demo as there's too much motion which causes macro-blocking.
There seems to be one or two additional explosions that happen in the demo as well. I can't imagine they would be "too expensive" to render, though. There's no indication of that as there are a lot of other scenes with heavy explosions.
I think that is part of the folly of focusing too much on this demo. It's like, oh this detail is missing from the final...but that same detail can show up in other places in larger quantities. What do you guys think? Does this explosion look better or worse to you?
These shots are paused using photo mode, by the way - the rendering doesn't change, though. It's just to remove the motion blur so we can get a closer look at the detail.
In the demo, Martin Li is in the chopper with another guy firing rockets and those rockets are damaging the building. In the final game, there is a different type of rocket with blue-ish smoke. Those rockets project a blue light instead of an orange one.
So it seems like the entirety of the explosions are resulting from that large transformer crashing down onto the roof - the building is damaged. In the E3 demo they simply have a different style of attack coming from the chopper and those extra explosions originate from that.
Overall, things are just different. The final build has more going on when the generator or whatever crashes through the roof:
edit: I synced them up closer.
Yeah, the explosions in the final look like it's from a different source.
Even the lighting, to me it looks washed out in the demo, like too much contrast?
Seems like some ppl, even if there's changes, want things to look the same, even if it doesn't make sense?
How about for what both the demo and the final shows, it looks good. In the context of what they wanted to show.
Jesus are people still talking about downgrades? It’s like they actually WANT these sorts of issues just so they can create drama. Oh wait, that’s exactly what they want.
The last two pages omg. A couple of Clowns among us.
The fire explosion in your picture is NOT fully visible during game-play, hence doesn't fully affect performance. You achieved those pic using photo-mode and it looks like different pics of the exact same explosion. Whereas the demo had 9 big explosions.
I counted NINE BIG fiery explosions in the demo. Half of them being in full view during gameplay.
And that's without mentioning the performance heavy alpha effects in the dense smoke particles compared to the final game. From the IGN demo I only see two small explosions in the final game and both are occluded by objects. If anyone has a better final game footage then i would like to see it.
Damn. What happened here?
He’s like Bizarro thelastword.
Also, could you direct me to a post of yours where you criticize an Xbox or Switch title to this degree?
You sure do like to insult developers, though. Why exactly? Why does this matter?
My fellow Youtube has the game
I’m crying but I’m not sure if I am laughing or I feel really bad for the guy.
Are there any detailed comparison of Regular vs Pro, more in-depth than what DF did? Found it pretty lacking in service of this silly E3 comparison stuff.
When it comes to Sony AAA games he is be out in full force .
Thanks for all the hard work and question you answer so far .
Their problem is that this awesome and high rated game is again exclusive to the bad bad Playstation 4 and nothing else.
Some people try in this cases to find every dust particle missing from a video from 3 years ago.
They would rather be a web swinging Super hero like Spiderman or an axt swinging god instead of being a hardcore pirate or hardcore zombie hunter :)
So the game will be playable by the public in a mere few hours. Plenty of additional footage will be created and made available. The E3 demo will be moot, and everyone will have their preferences on what looks better or worse in-game. I expect that people here will remain respectful of others' work creating video games, and others' work creating content in appreciation of the craft of video games. This should be easy to do because we all love video games, yes? Thank you.
I'll have some more details to share in regards to the HDR output soon, but it mirrors Dark1x 's onservation about the HDR not being amongst the most impactful.
I mean, I'm not the one who said there's no performance difference between a potentially 4k parallax corrected cubemap versus a generic 128 cubemap.
If only you took your own advice.
Appreciate the analysis DF and Dark1x. It was a good watch.
Also it's been said but just skip the people trying to throw out bait. It's obvious and everyone can see the intentions.
Discussion is good, but wild accusations arent even worth a mention.
"We’ve tried to find the right balance with our HDR implementation such that the medium tones and dark tones in the image look the same as they would in non-HDR, but the brightest parts of the image really pop."
Does this matchup with your findings so far?
It’s still baffling how one person can ruin a thread and we somehow let it happen every single time...
Got an email from Amazon saying that my order has been dispatched. :D :D :D :D
Read my post again. I made that post as a concerned community member, but I am making this post now as a moderator.
Stop this back and forth, and move on.
I've caught a couple of pixels in the centre of particle effects reaching higher values, but these have been super rare.
This is often the way that many UHD 4K discs are mastered, as either the content itself was created with HDR in mind or the HDR master of the disc is deliberately trying not to deviate from the directors SDR vision for the movie.
Blade Runner 2049 is an example of this as well as many older films that have had 4K releases
It may be that later on in the game, when certain other effects such as electricity become more visible, that we see more of these higher values.
On the plus side, the fairly low dynamic range that the main game is using will give a very familiar filmic vibe, which may well be intentional given the type of game it is.
The game also readily outputs near black data, not raising the blacks and tinting them to give them teal movie shadows.
The main issue that this approach will give for some users is that certain common models of HDR TVs are expecting videogame content to be 4000nits, so when presented with content such as this that has significantly lower peak brightness code values, the TV will hold back , reserving it's peak brightness output for high values of data, which of course it never receives, resulting in a dim image.
No game to data to date has produced metadata to stop this happening, however I will check this later too, in case Sony have open up some extra tools in the SDK.
Yes, let’s move on. Blocking the user (first time I’ve used it here and it works well) in question and will continue as usual. Not worth engaging trolls.
Anyways, regarding HDR.
I agree with Boris as well. On the LG C8, I do feel it looks noticeably better in HDR but it’s use is still fairly limited. On the older B6, it can appear dim for the reasons he’s noted.
Edit: just read the mod post.
This isn't conjecture, I have never once even mentioned downgrade or came to a formal or informal conclusion. All i have posted are about the fact there is difference between this scene in the demo and the scene in the final game.
Isn't this a graphic thread? Isn't that what this is supposed to be about? If not can you then point me to the graphics analysis thread? Because I tried to make a thread and it will closed and told to come here.
This is supposed to be a graphics thread and was referred to by several mods. I have no animosity against anyone. If i can't freely talk about graphics in any thread, especially one that is supposed to be a "graphics analysis", politely, with supporting evidence, calmly and respectfully. Then tell me so i can leave and never come back.
I'm somewhat sad I did not pick up a 4K TV with HDR for this. It's time.
Anyway to check what your TV expects the nit value to be? Hoping it looks good on my ks8000
Industry is still moving up the HDR learning curve. Some of the Netflix shows are like when you would waggle a pole into the screen to show of stereoscopic 3d. I have a Sony OLED, and sometimes it actually hurts to look at the screen. I have 0 problems with developers erring on the side of caution.