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Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
Forgive me if this isn't new info, but a quick google only shows a recent mention of this on Reddit and not much elsewhere.





Silent Hill 3 was supposed to be an arcade spin off/a rail shooter, not a direct sequel to SH1. Was a terrible plan. The sales of SH2 was really not good start. So I guess it was one of the causes of that. Also that plan wasted much time & some budgets of SH3. It wasn't SH:Arcade.

When I was told that plan, I was really dumbfounded. Because I was one of core members of that team. I'm really glad that plan was cancelled.

I can't tell you the details of that plan, sorry.


Something else Masahiro Ito tweeted last month that I'll include here.



At least the sales of Silent Hill 2 was really not good start in Japan. It was often insulted on the Internet because it was not a legitimate sequel to the previous one and its direction of creature design was really different from the previous Silent Hill's.
 
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Toriko

Banned
Dec 29, 2017
7,711
While I am in the camp of Silent Hill 1 > > Silent Hill 2, it is still a fantastic game.

Thank God SH3 was a legit SH game. It was fantastic.
 
Dec 6, 2017
10,989
US
Just a giant what-the-fuck from me...

I understand these are businesses and money is king at the end but as a consumer and fan, some of these decisions still always blow my mind utterly.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,573
Konami sabotaging Silent Hill? Why I never. That they even managed to bring out decent games at all is a testament to the dedication of the teams involved. the
 

Gradon

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,470
UK
You missed this one OP



same. I adore SH3 and it would've been crazy to see Silent Hill jump into a different genre so quickly.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,767
Bigger news here is that Silent Hill 2 was seen as a disappointment in Japan. Silent Hill 2! Aka the greatest survival horror of all time!!1
I distinctly recall reading that Silent Hill 2 was very much a bigger title in the west than it was in Japan, so it doesn't surprise me too much that they were split on where to take 3.

The Silent Hill franchise is arguably one of the most mismanaged "legacy" IPs I can think of, really. The first three games are all quality but it seems kinda clear that the powers-that-be were becoming really indecisive of whether it was hitting its full potential. It was never quite a Resident Evil, that's for sure. Every post-3 game seem like an admission of the struggles this series had to go through in search to find proper footing.

To this day I'm honestly really skeptical of whether Silent Hills could ever have lived up to its pedigree.
 

NightShift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,025
Australia
latest

It's fucking crazy that these people still managed to make a masterpiece despite all the shit SH3 went through. I hope they're still doing well because they are pure talent.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,382
It really wasn't just Japan that didn't "get" SH2 initially.

PSM's review

SH2's foremost fault is the convoluted and confusing storyline. Throughout SH2, players will encounter a number of mysteries involving James' (the lead character) background, the evil town itself, the monsters, and the supporting cast. However, very few of these enigmas ever get an explanation, which always left me anticipating a suspenseful answer. Even after I completed the game, I still couldn't definitively determine what the hell was going on in Silent Hill; it's like reading a poorly written novel.

Game Informer

Instead of the brain-bending adventure with scares and gore that I had so desperately hoped for, it turned out to be a sloppy, monotonous bore that nearly put me to sleep.

There are others, but the story especially seemed to rub people the wrong way back then.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
It really wasn't just Japan that didn't "get" SH2 initially.
"Instead of the brain-bending adventure with scares and gore that I had so desperately hoped for, it turned out to be a sloppy, monotonous bore that nearly put me to sleep."

Sounds like this person would love the first-person jump scare fests made for Twitch streamers these days.
 

Kokoro

Member
Jan 23, 2019
218
France
Hard to believe Silent Hill 2 reception was so bad. It's one of the best survival horror I've played. Having an arcade shooter instead of Silent Hill 3 would have been terrible.
This reminds me how much I miss Silent Hill :(
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
Silent Hill 3 is my personal favorite entry in the series, and one of my favorite games ever, so very happy it ended up happening.

A Silent Hill on-rail shooter arcade game did eventually release. It has some of the corniest voice acting I've ever heard, but if you can accept its existence then it's not a bad arcade game by any stretch.

Silent Hill 2 is now hailed as one of gaming's masterpieces, but yeah at launch it wasn't received that well. Complaints about it not being related to the first game, being too easy and dumbed down survival-horror, as Ito mentioned the lower variety of monsters wasn't as well received at first, and how much downtime there was in the game was critiqued and that it wasn't as scary as the first game. Some even critiqued the story being ambiguous and confusing. It's actually a really good example of how expectations of a game can make people really dumb with critique, the gut reaction of how different SH2 was to SH1 made a large group of people at the time tear into the game for what it wasn't rather than for what it was. A lot of the critique of SH2 had to do with people's expectations as a horror game and as a sequel to SH1, and as SH1 had a reputation back then as "one of the scariest horror games ever," SH2 going a very different direction initially had mixed response. Expectations can be killer.
 

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,815
It really wasn't just Japan that didn't "get" SH2 initially.

PSM's review


Game Informer


There are others, but the story especially seemed to rub people the wrong way back then.

Worth noting though that the PS2 version currently has a Metacritic score of 89 and the critic reviews are mostly made up of reviews from the time. The game was critically pretty well received at the time:
GameSpy
If "Resident Evil" was likened to "Night of the Living Dead," then think of Silent Hill 2 as "Twin Peaks," minus the damn fine coffee, but plus the atmospheric gloom and cast of insane deviants, with the entire mixture then taken out back into the woods, shot, hacked into small chunks, and buried.

Official U.S. Playstation Magazine
To fully appreciate Silent Hill 2, you have to let it take over your life for a while. [Nov 2001, p.162]

IGN
It's an experience that, excuse the Chaucerian, is sure to freak the crap out of you. 9.0

GamePro
SH2 makes more effective use of shadows, lighting, and sound than 99 percent of the Hollywood horror movies made in the last 20 years.

Electronic Gaming Monthly
SH2's unnerving mood is so immersive, almost deafening, that it overshadows some of the technical faults…This game will scare you. [Nov 2001, p.212]

GameSpot
A much prettier, somewhat smarter but less-compelling game than the original.

And as a bonus here's Game Informer's much more positive review for the Xbox version of SH2 (which has a Metacritic of 84):
Game Informer
As an entire production, it's really quite brilliant, and couldn't be more frightening. [Feb 2002, p.89]



Bigger news here is that Silent Hill 2 was seen as a disappointment in Japan. Silent Hill 2! Aka the greatest survival horror of all time!!1

He did say initially and as others have pointed out this series has generally done better in the West but yeah that's definitely a bummer to hear.


I distinctly recall reading that Silent Hill 2 was very much a bigger title in the west than it was in Japan, so it doesn't surprise me too much that they were split on where to take 3.

The Silent Hill franchise is arguably one of the most mismanaged "legacy" IPs I can think of, really. The first three games are all quality but it seems kinda clear that the powers-that-be were becoming really indecisive of whether it was hitting its full potential. It was never quite a Resident Evil, that's for sure. Every post-3 game seem like an admission of the struggles this series had to go through in search to find proper footing.

To this day I'm honestly really skeptical of whether Silent Hills could ever have lived up to its pedigree.

What's frustrating is that the series always felt like it was just on the fringe of becoming a RE level hit. I think a game from the right developer could've broken through. Shattered Memories and PT are definitely the two most noteworthy post Team Silent games (or "games"). Having said that even though Shattered Memories has a great story I feel like there's a plethora of reasons why it didn't become a breakout hit. Also I feel like I'm not the first person to say that if Silent Hills was even half as good as PT I think it would've been a breakout hit for Konami. Obviously we'll never know for sure but I feel pretty confident about that (for whatever that's worth to you, lol).
 
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Hentailover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,417
Moscow
Konami sabotaging Silent Hill? Why I never. That they even managed to bring out decent games at all is a testament to the dedication of the teams involved.

Working on silent hill is just a pure passion project, cuz even when you try your hardest, against all odds and Konami's bullshit, you just then get villianized by fanbase anyway...

Yeh, that happened btw? For years, people would blame like one person, as if he was in charge of all bad decisions, when in reality, most of them were just dumped on him by suits and cirucmstances and he had to try and make the best out of it
 

Cajun

Member
Oct 28, 2017
501
I don't think the game sold particularly well in the west initially either, but it did a lot better there than in Japan. That point in Ito's statement still boggles my mind though. You have to get in the mind of the Konami execs:

Okay. Let's put a team together to make a horror series that replicates the massive western popularity of Resident Evil. Oh good, it's doing pretty well! But the Japanese audience isn't buying it? I've got it! We'll make that series an on-rail shooter after only two titles. No, it doesn't matter if it has been successful in its initial focus.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804

This is actually worth mentioning, but Masahiro has been saying recently if another Silent Hill game is made, he wants that team to focus on making it's own thing rather than feeling it must adhere to a certain style. He's gone more in-depth on this, but he feels chasing what the series was isn't the way a modern SH game should be made, rather he thinks they should try to do their own thing and not feel they have to stick to the aesthetics or backstory of SH specifically, just try and figure out what are the core important parts of SH and explore him. He's making the ":P" face since he realizes he used to think that way too about the series, but not anymore.
 

Winston1

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,105
It really wasn't just Japan that didn't "get" SH2 initially.

PSM's review



Game Informer



There are others, but the story especially seemed to rub people the wrong way back then.
Yeah, and from what I've heard from some long-time members on the Silent Hill: Heaven and Silent Hill: Community forums, these reviews reflected what a large number of the fandom felt about SH2 at the time (and in some cases they were actually much more positive than the initial fan reactions).
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,431
Damn this hurts to read, seriously these ppl shouldn't review games for a living.
Because they have a different opinion than you they shouldn't get work writing their own opinions? Also don't get me started on the whole judging people in the past over something that became a classic later.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,731
I don't think the game sold particularly well in the west initially either, but it did a lot better there than in Japan. That point in Ito's statement still boggles my mind though. You have to get in the mind of the Konami execs:

Okay. Let's put a team together to make a horror series that replicates the massive western popularity of Resident Evil. Oh good, it's doing pretty well! But the Japanese audience isn't buying it? I've got it! We'll make that series an on-rail shooter after only two titles. No, it doesn't matter if it has been successful in its initial focus.
If I remember correctly, SH2 sold by far the best in Europe, which is why they released SH3 in Europe first.
 

famikon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
ベラルーシ
If I remember correctly, SH2 sold by far the best in Europe, which is why they released SH3 in Europe first.
Europe also received pretty neat looking first-print edition with some bonus content (different packaging + stickers + DVD with "behind the scenes" documentary and some other videos)

silent-hill-2-special-edition.jpg


(and almost the same was for MGS2, except it was in transparent plastic box instead)
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
And then riddled with holes years later
At least the first three games are great, they cannot ruin that. SH3 being a Guncon game would have been horrible.
I know I'm always going to be on the unpopular side of the fence here, but I don't think the post-Team Silent games are that bad at all. Even my least favorite mainline entry, which is Homecoming, I still think is a fun game. I also think Downpour is incredibly underrated, I think it was experimental and managed to do some things excellently, but often gets the blunt end of the stick for it's issues. But Downpour manages to strike in some ways I think even better than the original trilogy did. Shattered Memories also has an excellent story as many have said about it.

I would be interested to see a modern western SH, since it's also worth mentioning I think horror is a bit better understood now than when the Western SH's were happening. It's easy to forget that Homecoming for example is 11 years old now, Downpour is 7 years old now. But I have never really subscribed to the popular notion that the series became trash after SH3 (not the least of which because SH4 I think is an interesting experiment in "anti-game" design but an interesting experience, but the later SH entries I still think are higher on the spectrum of horror games out there). I do understand they're missing the "masterclass" and execution of the original three which is where this viewpoint comes from, but I still think people go way too far with describing the later games.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,241
I know I'm always going to be on the unpopular side of the fence here, but I don't think the post-Team Silent games are that bad at all. Even my least favorite mainline entry, which is Homecoming, I still think is a fun game. I also think Downpour is incredibly underrated, I think it was experimental and managed to do some things excellently, but often gets the blunt end of the stick for it's issues. But Downpour manages to strike in some ways I think even better than the original trilogy did. Shattered Memories also has an excellent story as many have said about it.

I would be interested to see a modern western SH, since it's also worth mentioning I think horror is a bit better understood now than when the Western SH's were happening. It's easy to forget that Homecoming for example is 11 years old now, Downpour is 7 years old now. But I have never really subscribed to the popular notion that the series became trash after SH3 (not the least of which because SH4 I think is an interesting experiment in "anti-game" design but an interesting experience, but the later SH entries I still think are higher on the spectrum of horror games out there). I do understand they're missing the "masterclass" and execution of the original three which is where this viewpoint comes from, but I still think people go way too far with describing the later games.
SH Room is okay, high highs and low lows, uneven as hell but worthwhile game.
I thought Downpour and Homecoming were just horribly executed, games were glued with shoestrings, I did feel like under all the shit Honecoming might have been a good game but we got what we got.

I did like Origins/Zero and Shattered Memories, I feel like Origins could have been a really strong game If it was not for hamfisted connection to SH1.
 

Winston1

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,105
Also, Jeremy Blaustein(voice director of SH2, 3, and 4) has mentioned that the initial fan reaction to SH2 is the reason Silent Hill 3 went back to the story and themes of the first game.
I don't have my old gaming magazines, so I barely remember some of the press, but when I intereviewed Jeremy Blaustein he mentioned that Silent Hill 3 was what it was because people thought Silent Hill 2 was "too psychological." So , in response to the backlash of some people, they made Silent Hill a direct sequel to the first game, including characters related to that story, the cult, Alessa, Lisa, the whole birthing god stuff, and even blood and rust. So the devs listening to what people were saying about the games is not something that has only happened recently.
http://alchemillahospital.net/omg-silent-hill-is-dead-and-other-fallacies/

Jeremy Blaustein said:
The thing is, when SH2 came out, I will NEVER forget the fan reaction. "Why wasn't it more like SH1??" "It's too psychological"" THAT is why SH3 went in the direction IT went. Creators should not listen to their critics and fan base overly much or their creativity will be diluted until it is beige, bland and boring.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,754
Silent Hill 3 is still in my top 5 survival horror games ever. I loved the connection to SH1, and the amazing soundtrack.