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Masahiro Sakurai presentation announced for Terry Bogard in Smash Ultimate (11/6 5AM PST, 45min~ long)

Quacktion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,882
Disappointed in no Garou costume or music but hey Rock is there at least. Awesome presentation otherwise.
 

Boiled Goose

Member
Nov 2, 2017
9,310
So who would you replace with Elma?
That's not really how it works.
Imagine asking this in the workplace. What matters are outcomes. And the outcome is a lack of representation.

Yes it was. Elma being in Ultimare still has nothing to do with Shulk whatsoever. Even if they didn't add Shulk in 4, there was no guarantee he would have made it to Ultimate due to the other Ultimate newcomers. Once again, it's Elma vs Ridley, K Rool, Simon, etc.
See above.

There are only six unique newcomers in the base game: three super mainstream characters from massive series (Inkling, Isabelle, Incineroar), and three of the most fervently requested characters (Ridley, King K. Rool, Simon). Realistically, why would Elma have been included over any of those? She's a really niche character to have such high hopes for.
Elma is just one example. See above.

Lara is owned by a company with a reputation of being REALLY hard to work with and has a share of IP's that are probably gonna be a lot more attractive to the people working on this game.(unless you really think Tomb Raider deserves to get in before DQ and FF in which case we are simply not going to agree.)

Frankly if you want a female fighter from Square it'd probably be more likely if you asked for 2B.
Specific character doesn't matter. See above.

Where did I say that Lara couldn't get in? I was just describing her.

The rest is not excuses but just facts. You didn't bring a single good argument for Nintendo to do it outside of "it'd make representation better". Which is cool, but has nothing to do with Smash. I'm sure they have no issues bringing in more female characters, but again, popular characters are the ones getting in via DLC. The rest will get in via the main release of a game.

Again, you're acting like it's Nintendo's job to solve the industry issues. They have their most important female characters in the game. Some third party ones and smaller ones are in the game via mii costumes, spirits or assist trophies. Not everyone is getting in, male or female. It's a game celebrating the industry's iconic franchises and characters, not about making the industry better.
Yes. The sole argument is representation. Sure.

From your post it's clear that's less important to you than other factors. And it's the same for Nintendo.

That's the truth. We can have different values and discuss the merits of these values. But let's be honest about it instead of making excuses. To you and Nintendo, getting currently popular characters in is more important than representation.

(Ignoring exceptions constantly made for niche male characters)
 

Gravidee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
761
If the last fighter in this pass is another male character then I can only presume that the next fighters pass will be female oriented only.
 

Lowblood

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,197
I do wish Haohmaru or one of the Metal Slug four had made it into the cameo roster, but I'll take their music and a spirit for Haoh as compensation.

(and seriously, two remixes of Psycho Soldier. They know what I want before I even do)
 

¡ B 0 0 P !

Member
Apr 4, 2019
1,471
Greater Toronto Area
Where did I say that Lara couldn't get in? I was just describing her.

The rest is not excuses but just facts. You didn't bring a single good argument for Nintendo to do it outside of "it'd make representation better". Which is cool, but has nothing to do with Smash. I'm sure they have no issues bringing in more female characters, but again, popular characters are the ones getting in via DLC. The rest will get in via the main release of a game.

Again, you're acting like it's Nintendo's job to solve the industry issues. They have their most important female characters in the game. Some third party ones and smaller ones are in the game via mii costumes, spirits or assist trophies. Not everyone is getting in, male or female. It's a game celebrating the industry's iconic franchises and characters, not about making the industry better.
Lara Croft is by far the biggest female character in gaining besides Princess Peach, Zelda, and maybe Chun-Li. She'd be a huge pick for DLC.

(Ignoring exceptions constantly made for niche male characters)
Yep. People will shoot down popular female characters by claiming there's more important popular male characters first in line but don't bat an eye when the likes of Joker and Terry get in before Chun-Li or Lara Croft.
 

linkwashere

Member
Nov 9, 2017
284
That's the truth. We can have different values and discuss the merits of these values. But let's be honest about it instead of making excuses. To you and Nintendo, getting currently popular characters in is more important than representation.
As it should be. No character should get into Smash just for their gender, be it male or female.
 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,656
My respect for Sakurai just keeps getting bigger, any man that loves SNK like this deserves it.
 

Troubled Bat

Member
Oct 26, 2017
632
Austin, TX
Chun-Li would be the 3rd character of an already represented series. We don’t need her.

Lara, just won’t happen being tied to Square Enix. But I would be all for it if it did happens. It’s like with Konami owning Bomberman who should have been a character that got in
 

"D."

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,191
I aint gone lie, I'm hella disappointed we didn't get Garou Terry as a costume change
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,680
North Carolina
I love how he made the video into kinda a video essay about FF and KoF.

“Y’all motherfuckers asking ‘who?’, I’ll tell you who!”

it’s clear he absolutely adores the SNK fighters.


I aint gone lie, I'm hella disappointed we didn't get Garou Terry as a costume change
All the background characters probably took away from the budget for that outfit. Would have been sick though.
 

Zhadgon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
434
Well if you want to balance the male/female ratio.

This is the list of potential third party characters that are female, that I can think of:

Capcom:
Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
Hunter (Monster Hunter)
Amaterasu (Okami)
Morrigan (Darkstalkers)
Chun-Li (Street Fighter)

Square Enix:
Lara Croft (Tomb Rider)
2B (NieR: Automata)

SEGA:
Nights (NiGHTS)

Marvelous:
Asuka (Senran Kagura)

Koei Tecmo:
Kasumi (Dead or Alive)

Bandai Namco:
KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Haruka Amami (The [email protected])

Team Shanghai Alice
Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

Microsoft:
Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark)

Activision / Blizzard:
Sylvanas Windrunner / Jaina Proudmoore (World of Warcraft)
Sarah Kerrigan (Starcraft)
Tracer (Overwatch)

Electronic Arts:
Commander Shepard (Mass Effect)
Morrigan (Dragon Age)

Riot:
Ashe (League of Legends)

Valve:
Chell (Portal)
.n_n.
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,887
Lara Croft is by far the biggest female character in gaining besides Princess Peach, Zelda, and maybe Chun-Li. She'd be a huge pick for DLC.



Yep. People will shoot down popular female characters by claiming there's more important popular male characters first in line but don't bat an eye when the likes of Joker and Terry get in before Chun-Li or Lara Croft.
She's also belongs to Square which in addition to being a pain in the ass to work with has a crap ton of Japanese franchises that probably take priority.

Chun-li is frankly just me not wanting another Street Fighter character.

There are plenty of female fighters I want in. KOS-MOS, Morrigan, Shantae, Arle, I'd be fine with Jill, etc.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,153
I mean that's fair but they were talking about Ultimate not 4. I'm a Fire Emblem Fates fan and even I think that would have been better.
Elma is likely a casuality of how ultimate's roster was made. In a traditional smash 5, she is like 98% sure getting in along with some other ones. With ultimate being fanfocused, at least for the launch roster, she doesn't fit.
 

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,911
Man, hearing Sakurai talk about fighting games makes me wish he would do a more traditional, 2D fighting game for Nintendo.
 
Oct 27, 2017
572
Well if you want to balance the male/female ratio.

This is the list of potential third party characters that are female, that I can think of:

Capcom:
Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
Hunter (Monster Hunter)
Amaterasu (Okami)
Morrigan (Darkstalkers)
Chun-Li (Street Fighter)

Square Enix:
Lara Croft (Tomb Rider)
2B (NieR: Automata)

SEGA:
Nights (NiGHTS)

Marvelous:
Asuka (Senran Kagura)

Koei Tecmo:
Kasumi (Dead or Alive)

Bandai Namco:
KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Haruka Amami (The [email protected])

Team Shanghai Alice
Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

Microsoft:
Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark)

Activision / Blizzard:
Sylvanas Windrunner / Jaina Proudmoore (World of Warcraft)
Sarah Kerrigan (Starcraft)
Tracer (Overwatch)

Electronic Arts:
Commander Shepard (Mass Effect)
Morrigan (Dragon Age)

Riot:
Ashe (League of Legends)

Valve:
Chell (Portal)
.n_n.
As an "avatar" of every human being, NiGHTS is neither male nor female. (Still, I'd LOVE to fight with them in Smash!)
 

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
7,100
It’d be hilarious if the fifth character was a first party character out of left field
 

RPGamer92

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,761
Well if you want to balance the male/female ratio.

This is the list of potential third party characters that are female, that I can think of:

Capcom:
Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
Hunter (Monster Hunter)
Amaterasu (Okami)
Morrigan (Darkstalkers)
Chun-Li (Street Fighter)

Square Enix:
Lara Croft (Tomb Rider)
2B (NieR: Automata)

SEGA:
Nights (NiGHTS)

Marvelous:
Asuka (Senran Kagura)

Koei Tecmo:
Kasumi (Dead or Alive)

Bandai Namco:
KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Haruka Amami (The [email protected])

Team Shanghai Alice
Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

Microsoft:
Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark)

Activision / Blizzard:
Sylvanas Windrunner / Jaina Proudmoore (World of Warcraft)
Sarah Kerrigan (Starcraft)
Tracer (Overwatch)

Electronic Arts:
Commander Shepard (Mass Effect)
Morrigan (Dragon Age)

Riot:
Ashe (League of Legends)

Valve:
Chell (Portal)
.n_n.
You should add Tifa to the Square list imo.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,148
Man, hearing Sakurai talk about fighting games makes me wish he would do a more traditional, 2D fighting game for Nintendo.
I dunno. The whole reason Smash exists is because he felt bad beating scrubs at traditional fighters. Would you really want a developer who loathes the idea of one sided fights making a traditional 2d fitgher? Maybe its cynical, but id expect all kinds of annoying comeback mechanics and limitations.
 

lyte edge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
740
The "Terry history lesson" in the beginning was really fun and nostalgic, but the nerd in me is compelled to point out the slightest, tiniest goof that was made: Billy Kane's outfit being used did not first appear in KOF '97- it was introduced in Real Bout Fatal Fury! Otherwise...OK!
 

Ryce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,934
I don't know why everyone's posting that image to justify every character under the sun when the text states that it's also important for a character to be recognizable, which isn't anything new. There are tons of recognizable characters, and the fun ones are prioritized. "More" and "just" are key words in the sentence. It doesn't say, "it's important that a character is fun to play, not recognizable." This is middle school reading comprehension!
 

BoxingIsCool

Member
May 15, 2019
2,024
Sakurai is an incredible game developer and Nintendo letting him do these is an incredible move. He’s an absolute Japanese superstar