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Masahiro Sakurai presentation announced for Terry Bogard in Smash Ultimate (11/6 5AM PST, 45min~ long)

Spine Crawler

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,465
Terry is such a fun character to use. I love how he can use desperation moves. Power geyser in all star smash is incredible.
 

RedShift

Member
Oct 27, 2017
561
ah...so a governing body is determining what is fun (or not)...and thus whether it can be played or not.

hmmmm....
If you wanna set up your own tournament with circle camping, ledge camping, random single hit KO items etc no one is stopping you mate.

You might not get a lot of attendance though. Because it wouldn't be fun.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,404
Tokyo
If you wanna set up your own tournament with circle camping, ledge camping, random single hit KO items etc no one is stopping you mate.

You might not get a lot of attendance though. Because it wouldn't be fun.
That's not fair, Nintendo conducts their Smash competitons with items and without banning characters, and it still brings in crowds and contestants. It's fine if your league doesn't want to do it that way, but you shouldn't act like it is the superior competitive play style.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,404
Tokyo
No characters are currently banned.
Nintendo's tournaments with all items and stages and no prize money are not the same kind of competitive, more like casual competitive.
I don't follow the western scene but I had heard Yusha was banned, I guess I was mistaken. I know the stakes are different, I was contesting the statement that playing like that would not be fun and would reduce attendance.
 

Choppasmith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,587
Beaumont, CA
*sigh* I swear, every damn time, someone so much as raises an eyebrow at competitive Smash and Pixel is like



To be fair, I get why it's banned, it can just be such a downer to see sometimes.

Garou Terry is a loss, but I'm more upset by the lack of the real Terry Bogard. I don't know who this guy in the jacket is, but that's not her.
Ugh Like, I can understand wanting her and all, but calling her the "real" Terry is just so gag inducing.


Fatal Cutie Terry made it in after all.
This is the real Fatal Cutie as far as I'm concerned.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,150
I can;t hear Kirby's 'Rock you" as anything other than "Fuck you."

Who taught the precious baby such vulgar language?
 

Piccoro

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,182
I spent more time in the Jukebox, then I spent practicing Terry, lol.

As a SNK fan that grew up in the 90's, the 50 songs they chose are all amazing. So many favourites of mine are there, like the Kim Kaphwan song from FF2, Andy's song from 2 (arranged by Yoko Shimomura)...

And OMG at the Yuzo Koshiro remix of the Athena theme and the Art of Fighting theme in the Tekken style.
 

Naga

Member
Aug 29, 2019
1,611
Important/iconic characters like Tung Fu Rue and Daimon? Those are nobodies. Even important and iconic male characters like Benimaru, Rugal, and K' missed out. Leona missing from the Ikari Warriors team is going to raise eyebrows, especially when a nobody like Tung Fu Rue made it in.

Even when you get to music, tons of less popular tracks were prioritized over more iconic and obvious ones.
The "debate" was about playable characters. I've already complained about Leona not being with the Ikari Warriors.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,720
ah...so a governing body is determining what is fun (or not)...and thus whether it can be played or not.

hmmmm....
It stands to reason that in a game with hundreds of thousands of permutations, there would be specific rulesets designed for optimal competitive play, and Nintendo themselves have their own rulesets they've done in this regard. Competitive play was the whole impetus for For Glory in Smash 4.

No one plays Smash the same way. Some people play timed mode, some people play five stocks. Some people prefer to disable certain items, some play with them on high/medium, some of them don't use them at all. Even casual players in my midst avoid stages like Great Cave Offensive like the plague because they're just not fun, or are we going to argue that just because it's wacky and random that suddenly makes it good?

And even if you took a time out to dive into the competitive community you'll find there's no malice towards casual play amongst competitive players. Nairo regularly streams "casual" games on his Twitch.

Splitting hairs about how someone plays Smash is pretty damn self absorbed when no one person plays the game the same. Even competitive players are split on minutiae about the rulesets; a lot of Japanese players want stage hazards available for select stages whereas many western players want certain stages banned/unbanned. Competitive players aren't policing how you play Smash, they just play it their own way. What you're effectively complaining about is something that's entirely removed from your own bubble that has no effect on you.

And if people didn't find this fun, we wouldn't be seeing over thousands of entrants across several majors and multiple tens of thousands of viewers at every Smash major.
 
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TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
5,621
Brazil
Imagine asking "hey, is this stage used by some players?" and when discovering it's not, you say their way of playing is, at the same time, antifun, gatekeeping (gatekeeping who exactly? No one knows...) and that they want to tell people how to play the game 🤔
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,632
TBH if you actually want variance in tournaments you need to copy the Animal Crossing stages and Pokemon Stadium 2 stage into a mode that all other stages can access since those are the most played stages.
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,891
Imagine asking "hey, is this stage used by some players?" and when discovering it's not, you say their way of playing is, at the same time, antifun, gatekeeping (gatekeeping who exactly? No one knows...) and that they want to tell people how to play the game 🤔
I won’t tell them how to play.

I will say I’m glad I don’t play with them.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,754
I can do all the inputs except power dunk and buster wolf. any one got tips on those?
If you can do Burning Knuckle, you can do Buster Wolf. It's just the same motion twice before the button.

For Power Dunk, use the shortcut: press forward before you do the motion for Burning Knuckle. Congrats, you can now do a Shoryuken 🙂
 

AzVal

Member
May 7, 2018
633
I don't understand the discussion going on the last pages, if the Death Stranding review thread taugh me something, is that games don't need to be fun.


/s
 

Choppasmith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,587
Beaumont, CA
Just noticed that for the full trailer, the English title is The Legendary Wolf but for the Japanese title, it's 100 Mega Shock! referring to a bunch of the old NeoGeo commercials


Also, just noticed, Terry's entrance is basically his background to foreground leaping animation from Fatal Fury.
 

Maligna

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,338
Canada
I love all of Terry Bogard's voice clips so much. There's so many classic ones.

One of the best things I've ever seen on the internet is this edit someone did of a Tony Jaa 4 minute, one take fight scene where they replaced all the sounds with Terry Bogard/Fighting Game sounds. It works so well. (Besides the fight scene itself being truly amazing)
 

SeanR1221

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,051
He plays great. Now I’m interested in some of the AC Neo Geo games on sale. I’ll grab Mark of the Wolves. Of the king of fighters games on sale, which one should I buy? 2000?
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,955
‪I feel like that last Sakurai quote is a bit problematic, as it comes off as a common whataboutism regarding sexualization vs. violence.‬
Agreed. Why even model clothing and panties in such a way that can allow people to put your characters (pretty much women only) in compromising positions?
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,437
Houston, TX
Agreed. Why even model clothing and panties in such a way that can allow people to put your characters (pretty much women only) in compromising positions?
I get that Sakurai's original intention was probably to vent his frustrations regarding how strict the CERO can be, but he could have worded it better. Now it comes off as a talking point that originated from.......certain fans, & it kinda concerns me.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,647
‪I feel like that last Sakurai quote is a bit problematic, as it comes off as a common whataboutism regarding sexualization vs. violence.‬
just a bit odd considering we got Zero Suit Samus and Bayo. Sure, they’re fully covered but they’re pretty skin tight. A shame Mai didn’t get any alternat outfits at all. Should’ve had her in civilian outfits from her endings as a joke.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,437
Houston, TX
just a bit odd considering we got Zero Suit Samus and Bayo. Sure, they’re fully covered but they’re pretty skin right. A shame Mai didn’t get any alternat outfits at all. Should’ve had her in civilian outfits from her endings as a joke.
Zero Suit Samus & Bayonetta are fully clothed and, in the case of Bayonetta, easily toned down. Mai is a completely different situation. I'm not sure if they'd deem it worth the effort to do a redesign for a background character.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,955
I get that Sakurai's original intention was probably to vent his frustrations regarding how strict the CERO can be, but he could have worded it better. Now it comes off as a talking point that originated from.......certain fans, & it kinda concerns me.
Yep. I feel like ZSS shows me that Sakurai as a person probably doesn't shy away from showing off sexuality and his statements echo that sentiment imo, but there's a line here. Sexuality in games can be ok if the women in question have agency over it (and it's not every female character, shouldn't even be 1/4). Palutena showing her panties when knocked in the air is... decidedly not that and should rightfully be removed.
 

Choppasmith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,587
Beaumont, CA
He plays great. Now I’m interested in some of the AC Neo Geo games on sale. I’ll grab Mark of the Wolves. Of the king of fighters games on sale, which one should I buy? 2000?
97 was one of the ones I first tried when I was new to SNK. It's really REALLY story rich especially for a 16bit arcade game from the 90s which just wowed me back then (barring the silly translation SNK was so infamous for back then). 2000 is solid too, but it's the last one they made before the bankruptcy so I feel like it suffers a bit in the presentation and it's just sorta ho-hum in comparison.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,647
Zero Suit Samus & Bayonetta are fully clothed and, in the case of Bayonetta, easily toned down. Mai is a completely different situation. I'm not sure if they'd deem it worth the effort to do a redesign for a background character.
just a shame. At least we got Blue Mary.
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,735
the best thing about KOF 2000 is the lineup of assist characters, which is admittedly not much of a selling point if you’re not already a big SNK nerd
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
5,435
Competitive smash remains the group that's very 'anti-fun'...(no items allowed, many stages banned, Boo-ed when certain characters were used, etc)...

Sometimes it does seems to me that all they want is Melee that's frozen in time without any changes.

Anytime new stuff and content and function were added to smash and they'll be like 'that's not smash. Smash is........' and proceed to layout the frame data of smash and their interpretation of smash as legit doctrine.....

I don't know...i'll rather let the father of smash aka Sakurai, being the legit source of what is smash and he stated many times 'what is smash'.

Fun.

So what if it's unbalanced and certain characters being 'broken'? It's meant to be fun.
This is straight up trash.

Like, yeah, the super unbalanced silly shit is fun, but it's not conducive to a fair competitive environment. Literally the only thing I don't like about competitive Smash right now is that so few setups use any omega/battlefield variants, but at the same time I understand why that's the case.
 

RockmanBN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,076
Cornfields, Nebraska
Competitive smash remains the group that's very 'anti-fun'...(no items allowed, many stages banned, Boo-ed when certain characters were used, etc)...

Sometimes it does seems to me that all they want is Melee that's frozen in time without any changes.

Anytime new stuff and content and function were added to smash and they'll be like 'that's not smash. Smash is........' and proceed to layout the frame data of smash and their interpretation of smash as legit doctrine.....

I don't know...i'll rather let the father of smash aka Sakurai, being the legit source of what is smash and he stated many times 'what is smash'.

Fun.

So what if it's unbalanced and certain characters being 'broken'? It's meant to be fun.
Since all the stuff competitive people do is no fun. Organize your own tournament since everyone will flock to it since it's fun unlike competitive.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,437
Houston, TX
Yep. I feel like ZSS shows me that Sakurai as a person probably doesn't shy away from showing off sexuality and his statements echo that sentiment imo, but there's a line here. Sexuality in games can be ok if the women in question have agency over it (and it's not every female character, shouldn't even be 1/4). Palutena showing her panties when knocked in the air is... decidedly not that and should rightfully be removed.
To be honest, it kinda feels like the ESRB/CERO rating is the only thing holding Sakurai back. He'd probably be more willing to sexualize some of the women in his games if it were rated T or M. We've already seen instances of this with how Palutena & Zero Suit Samus' animations were handled (jump to the section titled "THE DESGIN & PRESENTATION OF SMASH ULTIMATE'S WOMEN").
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,955
To be honest, it kinda feels like the ESRB/CERO rating is the only thing holding Sakurai back. He'd probably be more willing to sexualize some of the women in his games if it were rated T or M. We've already seen instances of this with how Palutena & Zero Suit Samus' animations were handled (jump to the section titled "THE DESGIN & PRESENTATION OF SMASH ULTIMATE'S WOMEN").
I was being conservative in what I was trying to express, but yeah, he may be a bit more of a horndog than not lol.
 

Choppasmith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,587
Beaumont, CA
Competitive Smash *is* fun to those who play it. I wish its detractors would understand this.
I've actually been addicted to online tourneys and such for the last month or so. I can see the necessity and even the fun of Itemless 1-on1s but at the end of the day when stuff about stage bannings gets talked about it's always gonna be like that OCD friend who feels the need to obsessively pick at their food before eating it.