Masashi Kishimoto new series, Samurai 8 is a dud

Dale Copper

Member
Apr 12, 2018
6,093
Fame creator of Naruto (though he's only the writer) new manga just released it's first 2 volumes this week, after very heavy promotion upon release and even before hand. The next series from a creator of a debuted.....pretty bad.



With the 2 volumes selling below 15,000 each and a combine total of 24,164 copies. Now from the start this is pretty bad...it gets worse my friends. The Pic above only shows the sales of the newly released volumes for this week (really 3 days), here's the top 50 manga sales.

September 30th ~ October 6th (Credit to Kaizou_10 / Negative Syndicate, who I took all this data from)
01. One Piece #94 (1,182,323)
02. Kimetsu no Yaiba #17 (368,502)
03. Yakusoku no Neverland #16 (218,380)
04. Spy×Family #2 (109,702)
05. Gotouge Koyoharu Collection of Short Stories (94,166)
06. Shokugeki no Souma #36 (91,290)
07. Black Clover #22 (89,103)
08. Jujutsu Kaisen #7 (88,157)
09. Boruto -Naruto Next Generations- #9 (65,934)
10. Kimetsu no Yaiba #16 (51,187 / 651,875)
11. Kimetsu no Yaiba #9 (49,070 / 647,280)
12. Asa Dora! #2 (48,985 / 50,084)
13. Kimetsu no Yaiba #1 (48,856 / 711,941)
14. Kimetsu no Yaiba #13 (48,793 / 629,002)
15. Kimetsu no Yaiba #12 (48,775 / 635,083)
16. Kimetsu no Yaiba #11 (48,737 / 643,646)
17. Kimetsu no Yaiba #8 (48,254 / 658,136)
18. Kimetsu no Yaiba #14 (47,857 / 613,626)
19. Kimetsu no Yaiba #2 (47,766 / 683,816)
20. Kimetsu no Yaiba #10 (46,449 / 641,156)
21. Kimetsu no Yaiba #15 (46,112 / 618,447)
22. Kimetsu no Yaiba #3 (45,099 / 667,626)
23. Kimetsu no Yaiba #7 (44,639 / 656,020)
24. Kimetsu no Yaiba #4 (42,670 / 653,947)
25. Kimi ni Todoke Bangaihen Unmei no Hito #1 (42,479 / 123,207)
26. Kimetsu no Yaiba #5 (41,705 / 652,824)
27. Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio #18 (41,179)
28. Kimetsu no Yaiba #6 (40,059 / 659,085)
29. Toshokan Sensou Love & War Bessatsu-hen #8 (38,067)
30. Chainsaw-man #4 (37,276)
31. Nanatsu no Taizai #38 (35,177 / 312,645)
32. Ramen Daisuki Koizumi-san #8 (32,974 / 33,729)
33. Kidou Senshi Gundam Thunderbolt Gaiden #3 (32,948 / 33,617)
34. Koi to Dangan #3 (32,352 / 85,954)
35. Kono Oto Tomare! #21 (32,040)
36. Tsubaki-chou Lonely Planet #14 (31,520 / 132,084)
37. Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san #18 (30,387)
38. Golden Kamuy #19 (30,285 / 249,494)
39. Asa Hinagu #31 (28,603 / 29,622)
40. Coffee & Vanilla #13 (28,508 / 94,591)
41. Kaguya-sama wa Kokurasetai〜Tensai-tachi no Renai Zunou-sen〜 #16 (27,756 / 255,902)
42. Gotoubun no Hanayome #11 (26,372 / 468,982)
43. Hoozuki no Reitesu #29 (25,395 / 161,567)
44. Boku no Hero Academia Official Character Book Ultra Analysis #2 (24,687)
45. Risou no Himo Seikatsu #7 (24,348)
46. Gochuumon wa Usagi Desuka? #8 (24,333 / 59,339)
47. Dungeon Meshi #8 (23,463 / 346,568)
48. Spy×Family #1 (23,323 / 308,518)
49. Ashi Girl #13 (22,400 / 88,326)
50. Skip Beat! #44 (22,166 / 162,012)

That's right, it's not EVEN in the top 50! performing titles of the week, so I bet you wonder where are they placed....at 65 & 73!



So....that bad to not even be in the top 50....but let's break it down further!

  1. A My Hero character book sold better than the combine total of Samurai 8 volumes, selling 24,687 copies.
  2. One Piece Doors 3, a collection of cover stories/drawing for the series One Piece outsold both individually.
  3. The final volume of an unpopular but good Sumo series, outsold the new Kishimoto series debut.
  4. Chainsaw man, a super violent manga that's out of place in SJ which seemingly has been slowly growing, outsold both combine. I should also mention the first volume release of Chainsaw outsold but combine, Chainsaw Man 1 - 25,518 (7 days).
  5. Other recent series first debut had high debuts than a more promote series from a mega hit creator: Dr. Stone 1 - 36,075 (6 days) Jujutsu Kaisen 1 - 28,581 (5 days) The Promised Neverland 1 - 24,380 We Never Learn 1 - 16,014 Yuuna 1 - 29,743

So while even Kishimot has mention that he knew launching a sci-fi series in jump might be difficult he believes his name will commend more patience from readers!.....well it didn't translate to sales.



But even patience has run thinned with readers, with the TOC rankings. Yes I know Rankings aren't exactly the best data because while they are influenced by the readers surveys they are influence by Jump Editors though shouldn't that say something with it's ranks with how it's viewed....but again not super accurate/hard data.

Samurai 8 had...pretty high ranking upon it's debut, the the likes of chapter 2 - 7 being in the TOP 5 ranking series of the week.

Shounen Jump Issue 28:
One Piece (Cover, Lead CP)
Yakuoku no Neverland
Kimetsu no Yaiba
Samurai 8
Black Clover
Dr. Stone (CP)
Beast Children
Boku-tachi wa Benkyou ga Dekinai
Tokyo Shinobi Squad (CP)
Act-Age
Futari no Taisei
Boruto (CP)
Boku no Hero Academia
Hinomaru Zumou
Jujutsu Kaisen
Jigoku Raku (CP, Special Chapter)
Chainsaw-man
Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san
Shokugeki no Souma
Haikyuu!!
Kamio Yui wa Kami wo Yui
Saigo no Saiyuuki

The decline started with the 9th chapter of the series, debuting 8 from the bottom of the list.

Shounen Jump Issue 33:
Boku no Hero Academia (Cover, Lead CP)
Kimetsu no Yaiba
Hinomaru Zumou
Yakusoku no Neverland
Black Clover
Boku-tachi wa Benkyou ga Dekinai (CP)
Jujutsu Kaisen
Dr. Stone
Chainsaw-man
Shinrin Shugosha Mori King (CP, One Shot)
Haikyuu!! (CP)
Samurai 8
Act-Age
Tokyo Shinobi Squad
Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san
Beast Children
Kamio Yui wa Kami wo Yui
Futari no Taisei
Saigo no Saiyuuki

With Chapter 12, the series reach the bottom 5, the lowest ranking manga's in Jump. And unfortunately continues to remain with the latest chapter rankings.

Shounen Jump Issue 36/37:
WSJ Cast (Cover)
One Piece (Lead CP)
Kimetsu no Yaiba
Yakusoku no Neverland
Dr. Stone
Black Clover
F Ken (CP, One Shot)
Haikyuu!!
Jujutsu Kaisen (CP)
Boku-tachi wa Benkyou ga Dekinai
Boku no Hero Academia
Chainsaw-man (CP)
Act-Age
Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san
Saigo no Saiyuuki
Samurai 8
Kamio Yui wa Kami wo Yui
Tokyo Shinobi Squad
Futari no Taisei
Beast Children

Shounen Jump Issue 46:
Boku no Hero Academia (Cover, Lead CP)
Kimetsu no Yaiba
Haikyuu!!
Dr. Stone
Black Clover
Jujutsu Kaisen (CP)
Yozakura-san Chi no Dai Sakusen
Yakusoku no Neverland
Boku no Hero Academia Team-up Mission (CP, Special Chapter)
Boku-tachi wa Benkyou ga Dekinai
Mitama Secu-Re-ty
Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san
Jump Gag Matsuri! (One Shot)
Chainsaw-man
Act-Age
Kamio Yui wa Kami wo Yui
Samurai 8
Futari no Taisei
Beast Children
Tokyo Shinobi Squad

Now what may have caused this? Well honestly I think the exposition really drags the series down at the start, which looks you need to explain your setting but it's just....not interesting. The world is visually cool but it's just a bit confusing to look at.

The art while clean it just...visual busy to look at, note the pics I have may not be the worst.




Maybe the art style of Naruto was just more appealing, especially when Kishi name is attached to the work.

Also...maybe they need a better editor to help push Kishi. Know that may be mean I admit but looking at what the first editor asked/mandated at the time for Kishimoto to do to help shape Naruto...help pushed the series to success.


A tv program talked about the early days of Naruto with it's story and characters, while stuff like names is a minor change though the editors names are more appealing, here are BIG things that the editor asked Kishi to do.

“Cutting out a ton of exposition.
Putting in Sasuke.
Making the Wave Country arc (with Zabuza/Haku).
Stopping him from making the hokage and teachers animals.
Having all the characters take the Chunin Exam all at once.
The models for Rock Lee and the other Chunin Exam characters.
Turning Naruto from a fox into a human.
Changing Zabuza’s partner Haku from a bear into a human.
Giving the protagonist narrow eyes and the rival wider eyes.
Having him make the names of jutsu consistent for worlbuilding’s sake, rather than random and all over the place.”
Admittedly I love the idea of the vicious Ninja killer Zabuza....having a pet bear as a partner. Maybe Kishimoto created Ninja Ostrich.



Let's end the thread with this bit from a Crunchyroll news correspondent about Samurai 8....



If anyone from Japan can comment of the overall feeling with Samurai 8, please respond.

Bring back PyschoMantis to shit post in thread if old....or just close the thread.
 

NHarmonic.

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,350
Man, those numbers for Promised Neverland are amazing.

On topic, i didn't even know Kishi's new manga was already out, lmao.
 

Moara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,061
That's a shame because it has been pretty decent and a lot better than late Naruto. I doubt they'd cancel it though and it would obviously see a bump if it ever got an anime.
 

Spaltazar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,738
huh ghost tits actually manages to sell 30k. its alright i guess, but i thought it was pretty lame
 

alexi52

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,463
Kushimoto was never a good writer, it became clear through interviews that most of Naruto part 1 success was do to the editors and once he got more control over the story it all went to shit, Samurai 8 is just the worst aspects of part 2 Naruto cranked up to 11
 

ArgyleReptile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,963
It was definitely a slow start and it's art was way too messy/busy. It's slowly, and I mean slowly, getting better, but it really hasn't grabbed me.
 

Boogins

Member
Oct 28, 2017
58
Kishimoto is a great artist but he's not the one doing the art so that along with a not that amazing narrative made me lose interest quite quickly.
 

NoKisum

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,266
DMV Area, USA
Off topic I know but man, how is Promised Neverland gaining such legs? I remember hearing about the premise, thinking it's gonna be a pretty short series before it hits repetition.
 

KojiKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,182
I'm not sure I buy the sci-fi needing extra explanation over any other popular manga... You'd be hard pressed to find fantasy and isekai series that don't have a million proper nouns and concepts they spend chapters explaining.

Japan just isn't that into Sci-Fi in general for whatever reason aside from a select few exceptions.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
Samurai 8 just looks like another standard shonen journey, except the hook this time is cyborg samurai, which would be fine except the hook for boruto is literally cyborg ninja, so what reason is there to buy a book from a writer looking over his own shoulder and cribbing off his own homework?
 

Moara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,061
Off topic I know but man, how is Promised Neverland gaining such legs? I remember hearing about the premise, thinking it's gonna be a pretty short series before it hits repetition.
It was selling incredibly well even before it had an anime. People were just attracted to a Jump series that was doing something unique and not being just another battle series I guess.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,574
At first I had trouble getting into but it has grown on me over time. It's pretty fun right now

I for the life of me don't understand why Jujutsu Kaisen is so popular
 

Vagabond

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,236
United States
They finally introduced a somewhat likeable character like 3 chapters ago. I really don't like the main characters so far. Even the side characters are pretty uninteresting. I hope it picks up.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
looking over the list it also astonishes me that people still buy shokugeki no soma.

spy x family being top 5 is a welcome sight however.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,812
“Cutting out a ton of exposition.
Putting in Sasuke.
Making the Wave Country arc (with Zabuza/Haku).
Stopping him from making the hokage and teachers animals.
Having all the characters take the Chunin Exam all at once.
The models for Rock Lee and the other Chunin Exam characters.
Turning Naruto from a fox into a human.
Changing Zabuza’s partner Haku from a bear into a human.

Giving the protagonist narrow eyes and the rival wider eyes.
Having him make the names of jutsu consistent for worlbuilding’s sake, rather than random and all over the place.”
Wow, so most of the best parts of the original series was from the editors. This explains so much.

Ironic because it is absolutely BECAUSE Kishimoto is behind Samurai 8 that I didn't really care for it. Nothing in the second half of Naruto made me feel like this would be any better.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,518
I just can’t get into it, the artstyle is very busy and confusing to look at. I did like what I saw (first three chapters) though but it’s too tiring to read.
 

Moara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,061
I just can’t get into it, the artstyle is very busy and confusing to look at. I did like what I saw (first three chapters) though but it’s too tiring to read.
I think the art gets more readable as it goes on. Or you get used to it. Either way, it hasn't really bothered me much lately.
 

pochi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,072
Art is too busy for me. Just my 1st impression.
Dropped it tho cuz I wanted to binge read it the future if thinga get interesting.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,506
Djinn is right Usopp x Robin FTW
Who was that one guy from like a year ago that was a huge Naruto fan that kept trying to pimp this series while claiming it would be the next big thing? Think it was Psycho Mantis but I'm not sure lol. Just remember somebody making some absolutely wild claims about how big this series would be haha.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,339
Sounds like a factor of over-promoting it soured readers big-time. In addition, I didn’t know that sci-fi settings were such a hard sell in Shonen.
I personally didn’t even know it was out. I’d still want to give it a shot. But yeah, it looks like Kishi is one of those mangaka that needs an editor that will push back, which with so much fame, I’m sure he didn’t have this time.
 
OP
OP
Dale Copper

Dale Copper

Member
Apr 12, 2018
6,093
Who was that one guy from like a year ago that was a huge Naruto fan that kept trying to pimp this series while claiming it would be the next big thing? Think it was Psycho Mantis but I'm not sure lol. Just remember somebody making some absolutely wild claims about how big this series would be haha.
It was Pyscho Mantis.
 
I know Kishimoto has talked about it being a hard sell (a high sci-fi series in Jump) and such but then I hear him talk about needing to do alot of exposition for the series and I'm just thinking thats like the antithesis of what Jump series need to do early on since new series need to hit the ground running and get things moving.

In the first eight Chapters of One Piece:
> Meet Luffy and got his story with Shanks, established not only his dream but a mentor figure and what he wants to do
> Shows that Piracy is dangerous and isn't the work of a hero or for a kid, Luffy gets his signature hat and a goal to strive for with giving the hat back to Shanks
> Chapters afterwards show his power and what he can do now that he is older
> Introduces major antagonistic threat and world structure with marines and a helpful friend in Coby
> Introduced to one of the tri-protagnist in Zoro who fights differently then the main hero and other sword users differentiating himself
> Introduced to Nami our first major female character with a unique introduction

Slam Dunk:
> Sport series not really done before
> Introduced to Sakuragi & Haruko that sets up the premise of the series well and there dynamic
> Second chapter introduces our rival character/second most important character Rukawa
> Akagi the captain is introduced soon after along with Kogure & Ayako
> Teaches us the basics of Basketball (that doesn't go on multiple pages)
> While not a good at all early on we see Sakuragi does have potential and talent, along with being dedicated

Naruto:
> First chapter introduces Naruto what his dream is, his position in the village as an outcast, shows while not a good student and not good at fundamentals he is dedicated
> We learn why he is rejected and shows his dynamic with his teacher Iruka that is heart warming
> We are introduced to the three other protagonist with Sasuke and Sakura and get to see who they are and further glimpses into Sasuke
> Introduced to Kakashi there teacher and shown the gap in skill not only between the main three with each other but between there teacher showing a big gap
> Introduces the importance of team work and being a ninja isn't fun and games people put there lives on the line as Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura pass.

I wonder who is the editor for Samurai 8, does he really try to push Kishi for certain things, because:
Naruto's author Kishimoto reveals what characters' names would've been if editor didn't intervene
As well as several other incredible saves made by the editor.
soranews24.com

Looking here the editor really did help early on to establish Naruto and one of the big things was cutting out alot of exposition, something that clearly Kishimoto isn't doing with Samurai 8.

So it makes me think that Samurai 8 is more distilled Kishimoto then the fruits of not only Kishimotos work and ideas but the guiding hand of an editor
 

Moara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,061
Who was that one guy from like a year ago that was a huge Naruto fan that kept trying to pimp this series while claiming it would be the next big thing? Think it was Psycho Mantis but I'm not sure lol. Just remember somebody making some absolutely wild claims about how big this series would be haha.
that guy was absolutely delusional. I remember when he was trying to convince everyone that Sasuke and Sakura is a healthy and well written relationship.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,476
I mean it's not very good. The art is beautiful but super difficult to parse. It's hard to tell if their in a post apocalyptic dystopia or a neofuturism slum because everything shares visual elements with everything else.

Plus it's another "shouty kid gets magic powers because he wants magic powers" manga.
 

Geg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,648
I've heard very little about this series other than that Kishi was writing it. Based on this thread it sounds like he hasn't improved much since the end of Naruto?

Also wow at all the people buying the whole backlog of the Kimetsu no Yaiba manga after the anime ended lol
 

Saifu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,961
And wasn't this the same story/concept that Kishi wanted to do instead of Naruto initially?
Could you imagine if that happened instead....
 

Arkeband

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,182
Off topic I know but man, how is Promised Neverland gaining such legs? I remember hearing about the premise, thinking it's gonna be a pretty short series before it hits repetition.
It started off kind of lame IMO, it was heavily borrowing from the “whats beyond the walls” Shingeki no Kyojin formula except all the protagonists were like baby geniuses and 8 year olds.

I stopped reading it when they got beyond that and it became more of a survival horror, but it was finally starting to do its own thing, maybe it’s gotten progressively better.
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,305
Who was that one guy from like a year ago that was a huge Naruto fan that kept trying to pimp this series while claiming it would be the next big thing? Think it was Psycho Mantis but I'm not sure lol. Just remember somebody making some absolutely wild claims about how big this series would be haha.
It was definitely him lmao
 

Hellraider

Member
Oct 27, 2017
511
Athens, Greece
It's just not good. Nothing is even remotely interesting. Not the setting, not the characters, not the art, not the action, not the writing. So far it has been tropes upon tropes we have seen thousands of times but unlike most shonen works it doesn't have any redeeming values or interesting gimmicks to counter that.

It's just boring.
 

OtakuCoder

Member
Oct 27, 2017
343
UK
Regarding rankings:

There’s a considerable gap between a chapter getting published and it’s votes being counted (it’s thought to be about seven weeks, I believe).

Because of this, new manga are considered unranked for the first couple of months. This would explain the “sudden drop” OP cited.
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,305
It started off kind of lame IMO, it was heavily borrowing from the “whats beyond the walls” Shingeki no Kyojin formula except all the protagonists were like baby geniuses and 8 year olds.

I stopped reading it when they got beyond that and it became more of a survival horror, but it was finally starting to do its own thing, maybe it’s gotten progressively better.
Started off lame? It's very first arc was its best, frankly one of the one better shounen arcs

After that is where its YMMV as not everyone has been feeling the shift in direction.
 

Saifu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,961
Well kimetsu and promised neverland is ending soon right? Maybe samurai 8 will get a boost then?
 

ArgyleReptile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,963
Looking here the editor really did help early on to establish Naruto and one of the big things was cutting out alot of exposition, something that clearly Kishimoto isn't doing with Samurai 8.
Yup. Kishi isn't being reeled in here and it's a clear difference between this series and early Naruto.
 

El Jefe

Member
Aug 15, 2019
398
California
I heard about this and was kinda interested as a very casual manga reader, as early Naruto was great. Shame to hear it isn’t very good and doing really poorly.
 

Loan Wolf

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,641
Kushimoto was never a good writer, it became clear through interviews that most of Naruto part 1 success was do to the editors and once he got more control over the story it all went to shit, Samurai 8 is just the worst aspects of part 2 Naruto cranked up to 11
So Kishimoto is the George Lucas of mangakas?

But in all seriousness, it doesn't surprise me that it flopped. I read into the first few chapters and the progression of the plot was rushed; it's a shame since I'm fascinated by the premise of space samurai. Kishi is a bad writer but a great artist
 

Castile

Member
Dec 1, 2017
3,511
People may say it is because it's Sci-Fi, but Eden's Zero is also sci-fi and is selling at average 3-4 times more than Samurai 8 on the first week. Astral Lost was also popular a couple years back, and even got a full anime adaption after the manga ended, a rare sight as nothing new was release to promote.
 
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abellwillring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,010
Austin, TX
I remember back in the day that there was already a series called Samurai 7.. does this have any relation? It seems kind of bizarre to name it that if not.