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Masashi Kishimoto new series, Samurai 8 is a dud

Wes D. Mess

Avenger
Aug 11, 2018
447
Chicago
Judging by the general quality of Naruto after Part 1 and how a lot of early Naruto was seemingly saved by editors, this series not doing well isn't surprising.

Still, might be too early to declare this a flop, even if other series had a good start. Personally I have no interest in the series since I feel like Kishimoto is an incredibly mediocre writer.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,250
All of the series launched in Jump around that time have been bombing. Last Saiyuki already got canned, Yui Kamio is rocketing towards the final boss, and last week’s chapter of Double Taisei concluded a mini-arc by having his opponent
commit suicide mid-match with a poison pill. This is a shogi manga.

The bottom five of Jump’s table of contents is pretty consistently filled by the same five series.
This is pretty common. The vast majority of new manga that start in jump have always been failures that end very early. The system is designed to churn out hits by creating a harsh environment where many series get a chance to run, but most will fail super quickly
 

Geg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,732
I read up to Chapter 5 when they got training and just got bored. Read the spoilers about every samurai requiring a Princess to partner with to fulfill their full potential with and laughed and never looked back.

Alps it never felt Sci-fi to me. Just replaced the magic terms with technology ones like programing. It felt very typically magical in that Naruto way.
It's even worse than it sounds, they're effectively cheerleaders, to the point where if a princess prays for her man samurai, they get a power boost. It's legitimately a part of the series' battle system.
lmao. Kishi had the chance to start fresh after fumbling Sakura's character super hard and that's what he goes with?
 

Darryl M R

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,268
I'm not refined with my taste of manga but the pages felt cluttered and it was hard for me to know what was going on.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,270
All of the series launched in Jump around that time have been bombing. Last Saiyuki already got canned, Yui Kamio is rocketing towards the final boss, and last week’s chapter of Double Taisei concluded a mini-arc by having his opponent
commit suicide mid-match with a poison pill. This is a shogi manga.

The bottom five of Jump’s table of contents is pretty consistently filled by the same five series.
Yup, it's been weird with some of these series, and I've been following all the new ones since day 1 (just easier to get into that way) and lots just... don't have a direction. As long as they get a proper ending (instead of what happened with Saiyuki) then at least that's... something. Nothing wrong with a short manga that has substance, but a lot of these are weird with their direction :/


It's even worse than it sounds, they're effectively cheerleaders, to the point where if a princess prays for her man samurai, they get a power boost. It's legitimately a part of the series' battle system.
Yeah the Princess praying thing is one of the dumbest things :/ But you need one in order to be a samurai! I guess there are no girl samurai in this world then (or do they get Princesses too??)
 
May 13, 2019
932
Yeah, Jump can be a real grinder. The two that stick out to me most are Stealth Symphony, from the guy who wrote Durarara, which barely got to 20 chapters before being axed, and Gakkyu Hotei, which was from an unknown author but had art by Obata (Death Note, Hikaru no Go, Bakuman), which only got like 10 chapters published in the magazine before they shipped it off to Jump+ for it to wrap up in a 3rd volume.
The ending of Stealth Symphony was quite the thing to witness.

Series got cancelled? Retcon the main character into a deeply disturbed psychotic killer and have him go into a killing spree as a giant dragon and die at the end!
 

artemis

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,589
Kushimoto was never a good writer, it became clear through interviews that most of Naruto part 1 success was do to the editors and once he got more control over the story it all went to shit, Samurai 8 is just the worst aspects of part 2 Naruto cranked up to 11
Sounds familiar. *cough* Akira Toriyama *cough*
 
OP
OP
Dale Copper

Dale Copper

Member
Apr 12, 2018
6,488
I'll wait till an anime before I really start calling it a dud. On another note why do we discredit creators work so quickly. Now people are acting that Naruto was huge in spite of Kishi? I see same thing from SW fan about Lucas to me it's really lame.
I REALLY don't think this is getting an anime.

I really don't want to discredit Kishi because he has put 14 years into Naruto and even though the editor gave Kishimoto these request he still made what he did. But who knows if the editor didn't have a hand in that ad even beside that those elements REALLY helped elevate Naruto.
 

Chase

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,589
It's even worse than it sounds, they're effectively cheerleaders, to the point where if a princess prays for her man samurai, they get a power boost. It's legitimately a part of the series' battle system.
Don’t sell the princesses short! They also have the important role of being responsible for the eggs locker balls that are required to birth men create samurai.
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,917
lmao. Kishi had the chance to start fresh after fumbling Sakura's character super hard and that's what he goes with?
It's arguably even worse than Sakura, because it pretty much tells you from the jump that there's no hype shit to potentially look forward to regarding Ann. She's just this blatant love interest character that's literally just there to give the MC more conviction or whatever. And it's not just her, but this concept will pervade through the entire series...

It's a massive shame because her character is kinda endearing.


Yeah the Princess praying thing is one of the dumbest things :/ But you need one in order to be a samurai! I guess there are no girl samurai in this world then (or do they get Princesses too??)
At best we'll maybe get one subversion on this dumb concept and call it a day.

Don’t sell the princesses short! They also have the important role of being responsible for the eggs locker balls that are required to birth men create samurai.
Lol

To be fair, it's technically Jump+ :p But yes, one of the surprise hits of the year! Love it, and I cannot wait for the inevitable anime!
This year has been the year of cozy, hilarious series for me between Kaguya-sama and now Spy X Family
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,623
Yup, it's been weird with some of these series, and I've been following all the new ones since day 1 (just easier to get into that way) and lots just... don't have a direction. As long as they get a proper ending (instead of what happened with Saiyuki) then at least that's... something. Nothing wrong with a short manga that has substance, but a lot of these are weird with their direction :/




Yeah the Princess praying thing is one of the dumbest things :/ But you need one in order to be a samurai! I guess there are no girl samurai in this world then (or do they get Princesses too??)
There will almost certainly be a female samurai, fulfilling The Girl trope. 50/50 on whether her princess will be a guy or not.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,292
Los Angeles
Isn't that Hiro Mashima's new manga? If Kishimoto's worry was about explaining things then Mashima has the perfect solution to that: don't!
Mashima also does one other thing that Kishi doesn’t do much of. Fanservice. Tits and ass shots everywhere.

Imagine if Part II Naruto featured Hinata, Sakura, Tsunade and Ino getting as naked as possible through clothing damage.

Or Naruto/Sasuke falling into as many boobs as possible.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,270
This year has been the year of cozy, hilarious series for me between Kaguya-sama and now Spy X Family
I've been enjoying the manic Mitama Secur(e)ity as well. I feel like that could do well as a gag-anime, doing like 2 chapters an episode, sort of deal (since it would probably be really fast-paced).


There will almost certainly be a female samurai, fulfilling The Girl trope. 50/50 on whether her princess will be a guy or not.
We'll see if the series lasts that long >_> I feel like SJ will keep pushing it until the very last minute, just due to name alone. Poor rankings/sales will start to convince otherwise, eventually...
 

Moara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,709
It's arguably even worse than Sakura, because it pretty much tells you from the jump that there's no hype shit to potentially look forward to regarding Ann. She's just this blatant love interest character that's literally just there to give the MC more conviction or whatever. And it's not just her, but this concept will pervade through the entire series...

It's a massive shame because her character is kinda endearing.
Kishimoto doesn't have the best track record for female characters but I think that's still a bit premature to say. Would be a wasted opportunity to not flip the concept on its head at some point as well (female samurai, male princess/prince). Wasn't Daruma's master from the first chapter a black woman? I'm still willing to see what he does with the concept because yeah, it would be bad if it always remained that simple.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,292
Los Angeles
lmao. Kishi had the chance to start fresh after fumbling Sakura's character super hard and that's what he goes with?
To be fair, his heroine is a better character than Sakura from the start. But that’s not hard but also there’s lower expectations for Anne sooo....yeah.

So at least, he did improve although said character feels more like a Hinata than a Sakura.
 

brinstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,977
All of the series launched in Jump around that time have been bombing. Last Saiyuki already got canned, Yui Kamio is rocketing towards the final boss, and last week’s chapter of Double Taisei concluded a mini-arc by having his opponent
commit suicide mid-match with a poison pill. This is a shogi manga.
what the fuck lmao
 

Wispmetas

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,803
The other day I thought about this series and when it would come out.

Now you're telling me we're already at volume two!?
 

Poppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,546
corvallis, OR
All of the series launched in Jump around that time have been bombing. Last Saiyuki already got canned, Yui Kamio is rocketing towards the final boss, and last week’s chapter of Double Taisei concluded a mini-arc by having his opponent
commit suicide mid-match with a poison pill. This is a shogi manga.

The bottom five of Jump’s table of contents is pretty consistently filled by the same five series.
considering how i feel whenever i try to play shogi in yakuza, makes perfect sense
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,193
It's just not good. I would be most people are only sticking with it because it's Kishimoto. I know I am. What's even odder is that you'd think without having to worry about drawing responsibilities and being able to focus on writing it would really shine, but all it's exposing is how much his previous editor had a hand in reigning in his nonsense ideas

I would go as far as saying Kubo might actually be a better writer...I certainly found his one shot more interesting than anything I've seen in S8 so far
 

jaekeem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,516
Wow @ all the stuff the editor added to naruto

Kishimoto is a borderline hack that got saved by his editor from himself
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,193
Yes and no.

The early editors are also the reason behind some of the big problems with Naruto as well.

So Naruto’s dad also being Fourth Hokage (which makes Naruto’s backstory nonsensical) was pushed by the editors.

Same with the invention of Sasuke and Sakura.

The Chunin Exams Arc is lauded as one of Naruto’s best story arcs but it derailed a lot of things.

Kishimoto was planning more of an adventure manga where Team 7 would bond together while traveling throughout villages but because of the Chunin Exams, he was forced to create a bunch of new characters at once which he didn’t know how to use after said arc because they were only
necessary for that arc. Hence all that wasted potential.


So without all that Team 7 bonding, it hurts that the endgame is Sasuke versus Naruto. It just looks like a fight with a boy obsessed with his abusive boyfriend.
A few thoughts

1. Not a fan of the 4th push. It undermined the message that hard work could overcome destiny, but then again Kishi ended up doing that (Neji was right)
2. I think Sasuke and Sakura were good additions. The way he used this was the problem, but they were perfectly fine characters pre-time skip IMO
3. I don't want to get into a fanboy war, but wasn't the bolded the case with all the supernovas in One Piece at Shabody? Oda somehow figured out how to use them in creative ways despite them basically all being dumped within a few chapters all at once

Don’t sell the princesses short! They also have the important role of being responsible for the eggs locker balls that are required to birth men create samurai.
LOL, I totally didn't get this connection. Holy shit
 
Nov 17, 2017
7,719
Mashima also does one other thing that Kishi doesn’t do much of. Fanservice. Tits and ass shots everywhere.

Imagine if Part II Naruto featured Hinata, Sakura, Tsunade and Ino getting as naked as possible through clothing damage.

Or Naruto/Sasuke falling into as many boobs as possible.
Yeah, that's true. Mashima clearly has a different thing going on that Kishimoto doesn't do. I read a few chapters of Eden's Zero and it seemed to be Fairy Tail 2.0 (with Natsu and Lucy expys to boot and also literally just Happy) so I think it will have the same appeal as Fairy Tail when the magic and the technology of both worlds fundamentally do the same things.
 

RuffMadman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
758
I really did give this manga a chance. I read maybe about the first 10 chapters and was willing to come back if things got interesting but it doesn’t seem like it based on comments I’ve read. I don’t even really remember much of what I’ve read besides being a chore to get through weekly.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,650
I'm not sure I buy the sci-fi needing extra explanation over any other popular manga... You'd be hard pressed to find fantasy and isekai series that don't have a million proper nouns and concepts they spend chapters explaining.

Japan just isn't that into Sci-Fi in general for whatever reason aside from a select few exceptions.
You might want to take a moment to consider demographics. Weekly Shonen Jump is a manga primarily targeting teens and preteens. Isekai, as far as I know, is more often for a much older audience - at least, I certainly hope that Shield Hero and shit aren't for teens.
 

SolVanderlyn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,070
Why is the manga community so gleeful to call authors hacks, talentless, and other horrible things?

It's one thing not to like something or someone, another to be disappointed in something you used to like, and another to shit all over them with reckless abandon at every opportunity. Reminds me of the Star Wars fandom.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,270
I was actually on board to join this topic (since I'm mostly only reading SJ stuff right now), but locked immediately due to "manga OT exists"... That sucks :/

 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,650
Why is the manga community so gleeful to call authors hacks, talentless, and other horrible things?

It's one thing not to like something or someone, another to be disappointed in something you used to like, and another to shit all over them with reckless abandon at every opportunity. Reminds me of the Star Wars fandom.
because there are only like a dozen chapters of go go ackman obviously