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Masashi Kishimoto new series, Samurai 8 is a dud

brinstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,032
Why is the manga community so gleeful to call authors hacks, talentless, and other horrible things?

It's one thing not to like something or someone, another to be disappointed in something you used to like, and another to shit all over them with reckless abandon at every opportunity. Reminds me of the Star Wars fandom.
I agree, it's really off putting
 

OtakuCoder

Member
Oct 27, 2017
419
UK
I was actually on board to join this topic (since I'm mostly only reading SJ stuff right now), but locked immediately due to "manga OT exists"... That sucks :/

That’s too bad. I dip into the manga thread butI find it largely populated by people reading ahead of the English releases. I haven’t really got beef with that but it makes it hard to engage, y’know?
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,580
It must be damn terrifying to come off such a huge series and start a new one from complete scratch
 

Mankoto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
434
I don't get it, is the Mangaka one of Oda's former assistants?


Basically Demon Slayer went from good sales to ridiculously high sales after the anime aired. It's sold out anywhere you go. Sales are restricted to one of one volume per customer, etc. Now, out of nowhere it's nearing One Piece's sales for the year with some thinking it will surpass it.
 
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lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,695
Toronto
That's a shame, I've been enjoying it. It carries a lot of similarities with Naruto, but it's weekly light reading so I don't care.

If its popularity doesn't pick up, I wonder if they'll pressure him to wrap it up early or simply drop it.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,440
That’s too bad. I dip into the manga thread butI find it largely populated by people reading ahead of the English releases. I haven’t really got beef with that but it makes it hard to engage, y’know?
Yeah I haven't read scans in ages, and don't need to rush to read something 2 days ahead or whatever. I just stick to whatever full series SJ, SJ+, and Crunchyroll offers (which is already a TON of content).
 

Uzumaki Goku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,421
Honestly.... I think the way Naruto ended... (the whole stretch) and all the stuff with the.... ending... really turned a lot of people off from Kishimoto's work. (I remember a father writing to him telling that he had given his daughters a bad message and that they would never read anything by him again)
 

DWarriorSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,100
PA
Yeah, that's true. Mashima clearly has a different thing going on that Kishimoto doesn't do. I read a few chapters of Eden's Zero and it seemed to be Fairy Tail 2.0 (with Natsu and Lucy expys to boot and also literally just Happy) so I think it will have the same appeal as Fairy Tail when the magic and the technology of both worlds fundamentally do the same things.
Weren't the Fairy Tail characters already the Rave Master characters? Did he really do it again lol?
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,627
Why'd he get banned anyway?
It's either Naruto or Japan video game sales related, probably the latter

Weren't the Fairy Tail characters already the Rave Master characters? Did he really do it again lol?
Yes.

I've been enjoying the manic Mitama Secur(e)ity as well. I feel like that could do well as a gag-anime, doing like 2 chapters an episode, sort of deal (since it would probably be really fast-paced).
What's that about

Kishimoto doesn't have the best track record for female characters but I think that's still a bit premature to say. Would be a wasted opportunity to not flip the concept on its head at some point as well (female samurai, male princess/prince). Wasn't Daruma's master from the first chapter a black woman? I'm still willing to see what he does with the concept because yeah, it would be bad if it always remained that simple.
Like I said, we'll perhaps get something like that, but it still wouldn't change that the concept itself is really dumb to put it politely.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,440
Basically this girl in high school has an entire QUEUE LINE of spirits that's haunted her for years and she's used to it, but some get out of line, and this guy who's an exorcist helps her exorcise them... He's very neurotic and powers up when he cries. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. It's absurd and amuses me :p
 

OtakuCoder

Member
Oct 27, 2017
419
UK
Basically this girl in high school has an entire QUEUE LINE of spirits that's haunted her for years and she's used to it, but some get out of line, and this guy who's an exorcist helps her exorcise them... He's very neurotic and powers up when he cries. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. It's absurd and amuses me :p
I think this is the only current SJ manga that doesn’t have an English simulpub. I actually found out yesterday that Seven Seas is releasing it under their “horny” product line lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,669
That's a shame, I've been enjoying it. It carries a lot of similarities with Naruto, but it's weekly light reading so I don't care.

If its popularity doesn't pick up, I wonder if they'll pressure him to wrap it up early or simply drop it.
Given his clout, if I had to guess probably wrap it up as early as possible but in a way that still satisfies him.
 

Dysun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,549
Miami
That's a shame, I like Kishimoto and was looking to check this out later on. It's hard to follow up a mega hit, not everyone is Togashi
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,747
New Jersey
There's a reason pierrot keep pushing the dead corpse of Naruto around as long as they possibly can to expunge the IP's fans of their cash. Most authors are lucky to not be one hit wonders regardless of how popular their previous series was at one time was, and personally, Kishi just got worse and worse as a mangaka as naruto went on and the IP took on a life of its own regardless of him.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,440
I think this is the only current SJ manga that doesn’t have an English simulpub. I actually found out yesterday that Seven Seas is releasing it under their “horny” product line lol
Nah, you're thinking of Yuuna and the Haunted Hot Springs :p This is on SJ/+ and isn't an ecchi title.
 

Castile

Member
Dec 1, 2017
3,835
I think they're expected to, but I honestly don't know many who have had popular long-form follow-ups outside of Akira Toriyama and Rumiko Takahashi.
Hiro Mashima, you may not like his works but he has two successful shonen manga under his belt: Rave Master, and Fairy Tail. They both have 30+ volumes by the end.
 
Jun 1, 2019
104
I read a few chapters of Samurai 8 and enjoyed it myself. I think the art is beautiful but Kishi could do a better job of contrasting the different elements on each page since they can meld together and make pages less readable. Samurai 8 is also filled with a bunch of cliches so far but I do think it makes for great light reading at least (I'm still a sucker for a few of the tropes *shrugs*). I do find the premise and overall art direction (character designs, environments, etc) to be very alluring though; it all pulls me in and makes me want to learn more about the world Samurai 8. So I'll stick with the manga for now and see where it eventually goes ( If it doesn't get canceled soon that is).
 
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Lunar Wolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
8,849
Los Angeles
Hiro Mashima, you may not like his works but he has two successful shonen manga under his belt: Rave Master, and Fairy Tail. They both have 30+ volumes by the end.
Mashima’s smart though. He knows his market well and gives them what they want with no real risks.

Fanservice moments for women with big tits and asses.

It’s the easy route to generate lots of popularity though.

It’s why he doesn’t really change his formula. Why change something that works?

I suppose Kishi would’ve written Boruto if that’s how he thought.
 
Jun 1, 2019
104
It's even worse than it sounds, they're effectively cheerleaders, to the point where if a princess prays for her man samurai, they get a power boost. It's legitimately a part of the series' battle system.
Lmao very lame. I didn't get far enough to see this concept introduced but for me this is a turnoff from the manga.
 

Uzumaki Goku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,421
I mean Yahagi left just before the start of the Pain arc and that’s considered one of Naruto’s best arcs but then it went downhill from there.

Then again the Pain arc is based on the set up from when Yahagi was there so maybe you’re right.
I think they planned out to that arc exactly... but then.... Kishi got a new editor and with that came a change of direction... so we got the Kage Summit Arc.

...ugh.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,440
I'm just sad Double Taisei is unpopular.
From the start, it kind of felt like it really wanted to be similar to Hikaru no Go in a sense... the art style really feels similar to Takeshi Obata's style. I feel like there's not much direction to the flip-flopped personality thing now. It has some interesting characters, but the story/plot/focus/etc., doesn't really seem to have a direction.
 

RochHoch

Member
May 22, 2018
5,235
I think they're expected to, but I honestly don't know many who have had popular long-form follow-ups outside of Akira Toriyama and Rumiko Takahashi.
Inagaki Riichirou?

His series aren't nearly as big as the two you mentioned, but Eyeshield 21 lasted for quite a while and now Dr Stone has been doing fairly well for itself..
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,700
are series from a known author supposed to explode on popularity or something?
I think they're expected to, but I honestly don't know many who have had popular long-form follow-ups outside of Akira Toriyama and Rumiko Takahashi.
It would probably be more visible in Japan itself, although it would also be more visible how many mangaka just die by the wayside. They're not on the same level, but I think there are quite a few that managed to have multiple popular works:

Osama Tezuka (too many to name)
Go Nagai (too many to name)
Akira Toriyama (Dr. Slump and Dragonball)
Asao Takamori (Ashita no Joe and Tiger Mask)
Buronson (Fist of the North Star / Doberman Deka)
Tetsuo Hara (Fist of the North Star / Keiji)
Fujiko Fujio (Doraemon / Q-Taro / Ninja Hattori)
Takehiko Inoue (Slam Dunk / Vagabond)
Mitsuteru Yokoyama (Too many to name)
Masanori Morita (Rokudenashi Blues / Rookies)
Takeshi Obata (Death Note / Hikaru no Go)
CLAMP (a bunch of stuff)
 

Cheerilee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,872
Mashima’s smart though. He knows his market well and gives them what they want with no real risks.

Fanservice moments for women with big tits and asses.

It’s the easy route to generate lots of popularity though.

It’s why he doesn’t really change his formula. Why change something that works?

I suppose Kishi would’ve written Boruto if that’s how he thought.
AFAIK, Mashima's often said in his bonus pages "I have no idea what I'm doing. I work without sleep yet deadlines are crushing me, I tried to have a plan for the story but my plan was bad and it exploded, so now I'm flying by the seat of my pants and throwing words at the page so I can get the accompanying drawings done before we go to print, and hoping that people enjoy it enough to not get me fired."
 

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,181
On the subject of series that started this year not doing well, the new Jump series Mission: Yozakura Family seems promising. The art is good, the spy theme is fun, and it has vibes of Reborn (theming) + My Hero Academia (protagonist starting as a weakling but then trains a lot) + My Bride is a Mermaid (protagonist marries female lead to save his life).

It really does feel like the creator just heard the name "Spy X Family" and decided to make a series based on what he thought it was about, though, haha.
 

NewErakid

Member
Jan 17, 2018
381
I read the first few issues of Samurai 8 and it felt rushed. Why set up a story about a disabled kid wanting to be a samurai and then give him a fancy cybernetic body with no downsides in the first chapter? He achieved his goal in the beginning of the series so you were given no time to sympathize with his situation. And I thought it was lame he was able to flex on that other cyborg samurai so easily right after getting his powers. There has to be SOME buildup.

Anyway, my boy Denji is getting that money. GO CHAINSAW MAN!!!!!!
Yea it never sat right with me that his prior disability quickly became an afterthought.
I've seen this take before and I feel it completely misses the point of Hachimaru gaining strength and what that's supposed to mean for his character. It's like looking back at Naruto and saying "well Naruto befriended iruka in the first chapter so his past experience being isolated became an afterthought." Hachimaru does gain strength the first chapter but what Kishi is trying to use Hachimaru to convey is that strength in and of itself is not a virtue. Its just as Daruma says in the story, more important than being strong is why you are strong. Hachimaru Initially wants to be strong just because it seems to cool to him because he's weak. It's very childish and shallow. But as the story progresses he learns there is more to it than that and how he applies that to be a hero is the main arc for his character.

And while he might not be physically disabled anymore his experience with it still plays a big role in shaping how hachimaru interacts with others, There was the fact that he when he initially met ann he lied to her about his past because he was ashamed of ho he used to be and then later uses that same experience to empathize with a Ryuu and kotsuga thereby showing how he's becoming more mature.

Wow @ all the stuff the editor added to naruto

Kishimoto is a borderline hack that got saved by his editor from himself
Honestly when his original editor Yahagi left Naruto. That’s when Naruto went downhill
This is another common take but its dumb because

A.) Every magaka has an editor that gives input into a story and most stories to one degree or another change from there inital drafts, so say that since the final product Kishimoto produced was purely the work of his editor is dumb and reductive.

B.) I remember seeing an interview where Kishimoto states that he went to that original Naruto editor for input into samurai 8 while he was working on it. I might have to look up the interview but i'm pretty sure it said that somewhere in there

C.) That same editor was the same one that suggested adding a rival for Naruto would be good for the story and that character was obviously Sasuke so while i don't personally hate Sasuke, its just another wrench to throw at the narrative that everything people like about Naruto was the editor and not Kishimoto.

Why is the manga community so gleeful to call authors hacks, talentless, and other horrible things?

It's one thing not to like something or someone, another to be disappointed in something you used to like, and another to shit all over them with reckless abandon at every opportunity. Reminds me of the Star Wars fandom.
That''s just common of fandoms in general honestly. Hell i'm guilty of this myself but the more i think about it the more i realize personally attacking people because you don't like they're writing is just kinda shitty and petty. I mean obviously if you want to criticize problematic aspects of a story such as the portrayal of women that's one thing but not just because you think they're writing is bad.
 

Uzumaki Goku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,421
I've seen this take before and I feel it completely misses the point of Hachimaru gaining strength and what that's supposed to mean for his character. It's like looking back at Naruto and saying "well Naruto befriended iruka in the first chapter so his past experience being isolated became an afterthought." Hachimaru does gain strength the first chapter but what Kishi is trying to use Hachimaru to convey is that strength in and of itself is not a virtue. Its just as Daruma says in the story, more important than being strong is why you are strong. Hachimaru Initially wants to be strong just because it seems to cool to him because he's weak. It's very childish and shallow. But as the story progresses he learns there is more to it than that and how he applies that to be a hero is the main arc for his character.

And while he might not be physically disabled anymore his experience with it still plays a big role in shaping how hachimaru interacts with others, There was the fact that he when he initially met ann he lied to her about his past because he was ashamed of ho he used to be and then later uses that same experience to empathize with a Ryuu and kotsuga thereby showing how he's becoming more mature.




This is another common take but its dumb because

A.) Every magaka has an editor that gives input into a story and most stories to one degree or another change from there inital drafts, so say that since the final product Kishimoto produced was purely the work of his editor is dumb and reductive.

B.) I remember seeing an interview where Kishimoto states that he went to that original Naruto editor for input into samurai 8 while he was working on it. I might have to look up the interview but i'm pretty sure it said that somewhere in there

C.) That same editor was the same one that suggested adding a rival for Naruto would be good for the story and that character was obviously Sasuke so while i don't personally hate Sasuke, its just another wrench to throw at the narrative that everything people like about Naruto was the editor and not Kishimoto.



That''s just common of fandoms in general honestly. Hell i'm guilty of this myself but the more i think about it the more i realize personally attacking people because you don't like they're writing is just kinda shitty and petty. I mean obviously if you want to criticize problematic aspects of a story such as the portrayal of women that's one thing but not just because you think they're writing is bad.
No, from what I remember, Kishimoto said that the story wasn't going anywhere, so his editor suggested to give him a rival, so that's when Sasuke was created. He was added because the story wasn't going anywhere without him.
 

Uzumaki Goku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,421
That's what I said the editor was the one who added Him to the story not Kishimoto
Yes, but Sasuke was added because Kishimoto was having trouble plotting out the story without him. So his editor suggested a rival. So Kishimoto wasn't upset about the addition, he said it became easy to plot out the story having Sasuke.