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Masashi Kishimoto new series, Samurai 8 is a dud

NewErakid

Member
Jan 17, 2018
380
I never once brought up factual evidence just my own observation over the years both in real life and on websites like this. You're the only one using factual evidence to support your argument, despite sales not correlating with what people think of the quality of the series. I mean personally I've been collecting Dragon Ball merch, the entire manga, the entire anime series on DVD and Bluray my entire life and at I think the series is like a 5/10. You can still enjoy something and still recognize something isnt a quality work.
Just goes back to my point that sales doesnt really equate to what people think about the series. Sometimes people just need hot trash in their life they can consume consistently because they may like a certain character, or they like a magic system, the art, etc. Naruto is cut from the same clothe though it isnt nearly as bad as Fairy Tail by any stretch.
Why wouldn't you use actual evidence to support a claim though? That's just bizarre.

Why does it matter if someone thinks what they are consuming quality work as long as they are enjoying it? You're argument was that people must not have enjoyed naruto to make them not wanna buy Samurai 8 ( a claim you don'y have evidence for). so i'm not really understanding what you're trying to say here.


I’ve enjoyed Eden’s Zero more then I have Samurai 8 🤷‍♀️
Dunno why, in some aspects its even worse than fairy tail.
 

BassForever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,509
CT
In what ways? I haven't read it yet. It looked more interesting. Did the fanservice level go up again? Is that the complaint?
Thus far it’s had the level of fan service on average that any random fairy tail arc has had. What I like about it thus far is it has fun with the sci-fi world and has done some clever things with it like a space dragon that eats time or going to a time wizard who has everyone fight in a fake tournament that secretly trains them to fight foes she knows they’ll battle later. All the problems of FT are still here, but unlike FT this actually started with a tiny cast and has expanded, as opposed to having a bunch of characters at the outset and needing to remember everyone.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,623
Question for those who keep up? Has any of the 7 other "keys" other than Hachimaru shown up yet? The cat master was looking for them and I assumed they would become his supporting cast like Luffy's crew.

If he does have to cut short I wonder how he would deal with them? Introduce a ton at once. Or have some already be dead/indisposed but their "keys" still usable to open Pandora's box.

I calls to mind the 7 Swordsmen of the Mist and how after Zabuza and Kisame the rest show up for an offscree Kakashi/Sakurai fight. Or Tailed-Beast hosts themselves aside from Naruto, Garra and Killer Bee. Though all of these didn't seemed to be posed to be comrades.

I'm also reminded of how Soul Eater made a big deal of the 8 Shinigami Warriors like the Big Bad Asura and Eibon but in the end has one be Excalibur and never names three of them just having the last known one be a black blob in a book who says the other three old ones are dead. Immediately after this the final arc starts so it seemed time to wrap it up.
Not yet. I'm not kidding when I say that the actual series didn't start until like 4 chapters ago. They landed on a planet supposedly holding a tournament for a ton of cash (they're broke), and it's basically PUBG/battle royale.

The lead-in for this series was just so overindulgent. If you cut that all down to a quick few chapters, and then leave the rest for some well-timed flashbacks later, it would've been fine.
 

Narroo

Member
Feb 27, 2018
989
It started off kind of lame IMO, it was heavily borrowing from the “whats beyond the walls” Shingeki no Kyojin formula except all the protagonists were like baby geniuses and 8 year olds.

I stopped reading it when they got beyond that and it became more of a survival horror, but it was finally starting to do its own thing, maybe it’s gotten progressively better.
It did start bad, then it suddenly got good for awhile, and now it's super rushed for no obvious reason.
 

NewErakid

Member
Jan 17, 2018
380
In what ways? I haven't read it yet. It looked more interesting. Did the fanservice level go up again? Is that the complaint?

Well first of all i've mostly just skimmed the series since i read the first chapter and didn't like it so maybe there is some depth to the series i'm missing but I doubt it.

From what i have read It just feel very recycled in a lot of ways. Right away you'll notice how many charcter desings just feel copy and pasted from fairy tail.you mention fanservice and while i'm not sure i can say it's gone up i also certainly don't think it's gone down, you get the same revealing outfits and ass and boobs shots as fairy tail. Even the battle system feels the same. In eden's zero they have ether gears which gives the user a specific power, like the main character who has gravity powers. You could basically just replace ether with magic and once again ,same as fairy tail.

The biggest issue that i have with it and why i say that in some aspects it' worse than fairy tail is where Mashima tries to differentiate eden's zero from fairy tail by making it "Darker."
Most of the villains are cartoonishly evil in their depictions in the most hamfisted way. Like you can just hear Mashima yelling in your ear "hey isn't this guy super evil? isn't this dark and disturbing?" Like there is one character who is a narrator for the story that basically turns to the reader and says that.

Its fairy tail trying to be edgy to simulate having depth.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,292
Los Angeles
Well first of all i've mostly just skimmed the series since i read the first chapter and didn't like it so maybe there is some depth to the series i'm missing but I doubt it.

From what i have read It just feel very recycled in a lot of ways. Right away you'll notice how many charcter desings just feel copy and pasted from fairy tail.you mention fanservice and while i'm not sure i can say it's gone up i also certainly don't think it's gone down, you get the same revealing outfits and ass and boobs shots as fairy tail. Even the battle system feels the same. In eden's zero they have ether gears which gives the user a specific power, like the main character who has gravity powers. You could basically just replace ether with magic and once again ,same as fairy tail.

The biggest issue that i have with it and why i say that in some aspects it' worse than fairy tail is where Mashima tries to differentiate eden's zero from fairy tail by making it "Darker."
Most of the villains are cartoonishly evil in their depictions in the most hamfisted way. Like you can just hear Mashima yelling in your ear "hey isn't this guy super evil? isn't this dark and disturbing?" Like there is one character who is a narrator for the story that basically turns to the reader and says that.

Its fairy tail trying to be edgy to simulate having depth.
If it's just darker and edgier Fairy Tail then I would probably prefer it to Fairy Tail then just because part of Fairy Tail's awfulness was how saccharine it was. I mean it's Mashima so I expect that type of cheese but if there's less of that then all the better.

Also edgy stuff like that sounds good for a laugh. Mashima's work after Rave Master is trash but it's entertaining trash.
 

noyram23

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,783
It's bad, way too many info dumps, the art style is ineligible a lot of times, and the pacing is odd. It's probably near cancellatio since they're doing a tournament arc. I wish Kishi went with his baseball one shot instead
 

Apath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,133
I just lasted three chapters. Not for me, but then again, I am not the target audience.
 

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,436
Nice at Spy x Family. The manga is quality and deserves it.

Kimetsu no Yaiba is pretty nuts.
 

Thuddert

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,031
Netherlands
There's various sci-fi series and settings, with Dr. Stone running in the same magazine lol. It's not a fault of the genre.

The key was always gonna be kishimoto's direction and writing. I thought it could be something good, because he wouldn't have to focus on art, but he clearly didn't improving his writing much.

Way too much exposition in first few chapters. Messy flow, a weak mc and that kinda makes it a boring read. I dropped it after 3 chapters.
 

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,194
MC seems lame.

For all of Naruto's flaws, his lovable dickhead shtick at that start was interesting IMO...hell when he became Ninja Jesus is when the series started to lose me actually.
 

Andi

Member
Oct 29, 2017
609
I had a hard time following the artwork.
Some shading would have helped and maybe a wee bit less busy.
 

Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,021
Holy shit at those demon slayer sales!
Also I didn't think Food Wars would be that high.

Is the promised neverland that good ?
 

Kegels

Member
Jan 24, 2019
2,251
i wouldnt start a new ninja series while i was watching naruto and im not starting a new samurai series while im watching demon slayer
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,895
i wouldnt start a new ninja series while i was watching naruto and im not starting a new samurai series while im watching demon slayer
Seems like a random rule lol, though even then, I never really viewed Demon Slayer that way. Whereas Samurai 8, well, it's literally in the name, among other things lol
 

Kegels

Member
Jan 24, 2019
2,251
Seems like a random rule lol, though even then, I never really viewed Demon Slayer that way. Whereas Samurai 8, well, it's literally in the name, among other things lol
i dont know if its a "rule" as much as just how I operate, I can't even watch The Illusionist since I saw The Prestige first
 

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
1,861
WSJ cut off so many interesting works because they couldn't find an audience (Psyren etc.), it would be interesting to see how they can handle a superstar like Kishi when he's falling.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,260
Pretty sure it’s popular enough for Jump to let the authors pick when to end it.
That's what I've been thinking, except it apparently been popular?
Huh? I don't see that in either the SJ rankings or the single volumes sales number. Even on here it's VERY divisive, with more negative than positive mentions of it. Something popular still needs to show proof. The heavy marketing means nothing but SJ realllly trying to push it.
 

OtakuCoder

Member
Oct 27, 2017
393
UK
Huh? I don't see that in either the SJ rankings or the single volumes sales number. Even on here it's VERY divisive, with more negative than positive mentions of it. Something popular still needs to show proof. The heavy marketing means nothing but SJ realllly trying to push it.
Well, in the chart posted in the OP it shows the latest volume selling a lot. It's up there with the latest One Piece and Demon Slayers and over double of the title behind it (Spy x Family). I'm not really sure of good resources for historic manga sales but I'm pretty sure a plot-intensive series like this one would've been selling well for quite a while to get numbers like that on the 16th volume.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,186
Not every manga is going to be successful, even ones from high-tier mangakas. Like, what did Makoto Raiku do after Gash Bell? Gash Bell was the highest of highs, one of the few shonens not from Jump that could be considered a Big 3 of the time.

Even Rumiko Takahashi made Mermaid Saga which was kind of ehhhhhh.
He made animal land (Dobutsu no Kuni) which was at least popular enough to run for 14 volumes
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,260
Well, in the chart posted in the OP it shows the latest volume selling a lot. It's up there with the latest One Piece and Demon Slayers and over double of the title behind it (Spy x Family). I'm not really sure of good resources for historic manga sales but I'm pretty sure a plot-intensive series like this one would've been selling well for quite a while to get numbers like that on the 16th volume.
....huh?

The next series from a creator of a debuted.....pretty bad.
With the 2 volumes selling below 15,000 each and a combine total of 24,164 copies. Now from the start this is pretty bad...it gets worse my friends
That's right, it's not EVEN in the top 50! performing titles of the week, so I bet you wonder where are they placed....at 65 & 73!
Where in here does it say that vol 2 sold NEARLY that much?


EDIT: Wow I got lost, because people kept re-quoting something from the FIRST page apparently (had to dig where the original reference even was)... I kept thinking this was about Samurai 8, when it was about The Promised Neverland this whole time (which is popular and long enough to get an anime). Nevermind then... That discussion just kept going without any mention of WHICH SJ story was being referred to :/
 
Jan 15, 2018
531
I feel like I gave Samurai 8 a fair shot, and it's just not clicking. None of the characters are nearly as interesting and the universe and lore has been fairly uninteresting so far. I was really hoping Kishimoto would lean heavier into scifi stuff when he announced his next work would be in the genre, but it's much more science fantasy.

I'm very happy to see Jujutsu Kaisen and Chainsaw Man are doing well, they're both super off beat and entertaining, twist the formula in some interesting ways, and are barely shonen manga.
 
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Flame Flamey

Member
Feb 8, 2018
3,955
I'm not that invested in the series as a whole, but I'm actually kind of sad it will probably get axed, because I was waiting for Nanashi to come back, since I was interested in where Kishimoto was going to go with them. Though I have this suspicion that Kishimoto was made to drop them from the series.

I was hoping Kishimoto could pull off a well-done and successful arc for a trans character who's prominent, part of the main cast.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,260
So at this rate, how much longer does it still have before it gets the can?
Most series seem to get canned between ch 20-30 (around when the 2nd volume of the tankouban comes out) if they are a bottom contender. If the ranking/sales keep up like this, I can guess give it around 10 or so more chapters/4 volumes total. I am guessing it will probably be a sudden, abrupt ending. This is one of those stories trying to stretch it looooong (since SJ loves the longer series), but it will never make it.
 

Dragoon

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,226
Curious to give his new series a read, shame it's selling poorly... When are the physical copies coming to NA?

I'm not sure I buy the sci-fi needing extra explanation over any other popular manga... You'd be hard pressed to find fantasy and isekai series that don't have a million proper nouns and concepts they spend chapters explaining.

Japan just isn't that into Sci-Fi in general for whatever reason aside from a select few exceptions.
HxH goes on pages upon pages of world building and backstory including full blown fights and sells very well, so I doubt that either. I don't understand why sci-fi is not appreciated in Japan. I think even something like Cowboy Bebop was much more popular in the west, no?
 

AoM

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,491
Most series seem to get canned between ch 20-30 (around when the 2nd volume of the tankouban comes out) if they are a bottom contender. If the ranking/sales keep up like this, I can guess give it around 10 or so more chapters/4 volumes total. I am guessing it will probably be a sudden, abrupt ending. This is one of those stories trying to stretch it looooong (since SJ loves the longer series), but it will never make it.
Unless the sales really plummet, they'll let him go 100 chapters if he wants.
Curious to give his new series a read, shame it's selling poorly... When are the physical copies coming to NA?

HxH goes on pages upon pages of world building and backstory including full blown fights and sells very well, so I doubt that either. I don't understand why sci-fi is not appreciated in Japan. I think even something like Cowboy Bebop was much more popular in the west, no?
Though HxH didn't introduce Nen until Vol. 6. This has lengthy explanations from the start.
 

Spyder_Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,783
To be honest it's such a boring read and I'm not sure I'd even recommend it to Naruto fans if they want more stuff written by the Kishimoto himself.
 

NeonZ

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,002
Unless the sales really plummet, they'll let him go 100 chapters if he wants.
I mean, how could the sales drop even more? It seems like this is about the bottom for a series from a big name author published on Jump. It's published on a magazine with a circulation of millions and has been heavily promoted and yet barely sold more than 10k.