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Sesha

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,824
Y'know.... I've shitted on Naruto with that big retrospective I did and how Kishi ruined his own series, but yet... I take no pleasure in this.

I just pity him.

I don't. Dude made bank on Naruto when he basically slept through the series for the better part of a decade. Then his new series is a wet fart from the start, suggesting that very little changed on his end. If Naruto hadn't been so great at the start, it would've fared similarly. He was lucky that people kept reading Naruto, and his luck as an author has run out.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,603
Is this maybe an indication that the series isn't likely to get cancelled any time soon? Dunno if the JP side would have much say in this, but it strikes me as unlikely that Viz would push it if they felt it was in danger of getting canned.


I'd count this just as another push for it, but in the western market. As the other poster said, it's more just advertising the upcoming physical copies in english and nothing more than that. I highly doubt that Viz would get any insight of cancelled series ahead of time.
 
Numbers for the newest volume puts Volume 3 around 9,500 copies which is a decline from the first 2 volumes, Japan defiantly has moved on and doesn't care.

In good news Jujutsu Kaisen is now selling around Black Clover without an anime so thats good news for future prospects of the series Silfer
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Numbers for the newest volume puts Volume 3 around 9,500 copies which is a decline from the first 2 volumes, Japan defiantly has moved on and doesn't care.

In good news Jujutsu Kaisen is now selling around Black Clover without an anime so thats good news for future prospects of the series Silfer
That is good news! Hopefully its anime is handled well and bring even more people in.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,655
You know, I think maybe going from Ninja's to Samurai (even if it is Sci-Fi stuff) wasn't the best move. Not that Samurai aren't popular... But that Demon Slayer is already dominating that market and also kind of a boring move on Kishimoto's part. Would have been better if he did something radically different and not try to feel like he's desperate to capture the same audience.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,018
You know, I think maybe going from Ninja's to Samurai (even if it is Sci-Fi stuff) wasn't the best move. Not that Samurai aren't popular... But that Demon Slayer is already dominating that market and also kind of a boring move on Kishimoto's part. Would have been better if he did something radically different and not try to feel like he's desperate to capture the same audience.

Didn't help that Mashima beat him to the punch on having a new spacefaring shonen series either. People readily had alternatives if the series didn't make a strong enough case for itself, which has become more and more apparent it has not.

The last dozen or so chapters are just a blur of inconsequence to me, which is annoying enough if it's part of some 100+ chapter series. But when it's a third? Straight up problem. Only thing that's stuck with me was our traitor's background reveal.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,603
The last dozen or so chapters are just a blur of inconsequence to me, which is annoying enough if it's part of some 100+ chapter series. But when it's a third? Straight up problem. Only thing that's stuck with me was our traitor's background reveal.

I get this. I read stuff through to the end a lot of the time (helps when waiting in lines as a time waster or whatever), and it's mainly been a blurr. It's like, stuff happens, some story on a character you should care about, planet going to blow up, stuff happens, more story.... rinse and repeat. I have zero investment with these characters and even when they do get story, seem super bland :/

I think it's amusing how we keep bumping this topic though, watching to see where/when it's just going to end.
 

OtakuCoder

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,372
UK
Speaking of sci-fi and Shonen Jump: I didn't read Astra: Lost in Space until after it had finished (soon after the vault opened) but man did I really enjoy that series. Got reminded of it the other day when I was scrolling through the Funi app and happened across the anime. It seems pretty good except for the letterboxing overuse.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
You know, I think maybe going from Ninja's to Samurai (even if it is Sci-Fi stuff) wasn't the best move. Not that Samurai aren't popular... But that Demon Slayer is already dominating that market and also kind of a boring move on Kishimoto's part. Would have been better if he did something radically different and not try to feel like he's desperate to capture the same audience.
I don't think the samurai subject matter is the issue, it's the terrible writing and completely unrelatable and lazily done characters. I honestly read it out of habit, but I can't find myself actually caring about what happens next or caring about any of the characters. They're all just so meh
 

Mendrox

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,439
Numbers for the newest volume puts Volume 3 around 9,500 copies which is a decline from the first 2 volumes, Japan defiantly has moved on and doesn't care.

In good news Jujutsu Kaisen is now selling around Black Clover without an anime so thats good news for future prospects of the series Silfer

9500 lol it's just dead. Don't waste your time Jump.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,603
9500 lol it's just dead. Don't waste your time Jump.

I still have no idea how they greenlit Agravity Boys... It's the least Jump feeling series ever. So yeah, same Jump that accepted that is also dragging Samurai 8. I wonder if there's some kind of contract involved to keep it going? In the last 4 weeks, S8 made it to the very bottom twice, and second-to-last twice. How much longer will it go?
 
I still have no idea how they greenlit Agravity Boys... It's the least Jump feeling series ever. So yeah, same Jump that accepted that is also dragging Samurai 8. I wonder if there's some kind of contract involved to keep it going? In the last 4 weeks, S8 made it to the very bottom twice, and second-to-last twice. How much longer will it go?

I think its more so new stuff will be starting up in Jump soon adn they will be waiting for the sales of Mission Yozikura Family and Megumi (or whatever its called) whos first volumes come out next month
 

OtakuCoder

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,372
UK
Agravity Boys just reminds me of Level E. I have no idea whether I mean that as a compliment.
 

A.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,387
Saw this and had a laugh. It wouldn't surprise me if Kishimoto was back at his old tricks of copying his better contemporaries.
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JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,018
I was not aware of this

This makes me want to read it

If nothing else I guess it makes for a good case study on the ins and outs of a successful shonen jump series - and how not to make one. Like yes, every series the magazine puts out that proceeds to bomb kinda qualifies, but Samurai 8 has the particular issue of being so dismal a failure both in reception and in general sales when its creator previously put out one of the single biggest series of the last few decades. There are things here that could and should appeal but are buried beneath the avalanche of doldrums, others still where they might make sense conceptually but aren't developed by the series well enough to hit the right note, and ideas that just fundamentally seem baffling.

Seriously, that the idea of a space samurai battle royale is somehow wasted is honestly fascinating just in terms of how you mess that up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Seriously, that the idea of a space samurai battle royale is somehow wasted is honestly fascinating just in terms of how you mess that up.
Yeah, it's wrapped up and literally no new characters of note came from it nor were there any exciting fights really. I guess Daruga's was alright when he turned into adult Naruto? What's baffling is that you'd think only having to focus on the writing would mean significantly better writing, but it's actually gotten worse. Other mangaka...I imagine if Togashi actually relegated art to someone else and how amazing that could be. Kishi has proven that isn't always the case somehow
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
If nothing else I guess it makes for a good case study on the ins and outs of a successful shonen jump series - and how not to make one. Like yes, every series the magazine puts out that proceeds to bomb kinda qualifies, but Samurai 8 has the particular issue of being so dismal a failure both in reception and in general sales when its creator previously put out one of the single biggest series of the last few decades. There are things here that could and should appeal but are buried beneath the avalanche of doldrums, others still where they might make sense conceptually but aren't developed by the series well enough to hit the right note, and ideas that just fundamentally seem baffling.

Seriously, that the idea of a space samurai battle royale is somehow wasted is honestly fascinating just in terms of how you mess that up.
Well one thing I can tell right here just from the pictures I have seen

The character designs are kinda ass
 

Altair

Member
Jan 11, 2018
7,901
Both Kishi and Hiro's new series seem to be duds. Haven't been remotely interested in either of them. Their best is past them. Part 1 of Naruto was way better than anything in part 2 as well as Samurai 8 and Rave Master was way better than Fairy Tail and thus far, Edens Zero.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,603
Unless you want to hate read or you're just curious, there are other better things to spend your time reading

Agreed. It's interesting since I follow Viz/Jump on Twitter and curious to see what comments are like on S8... apparently a fanbase exists, but I'm pretty sure it's only those 5 people :x I just... don't see what they see in it.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,018
Agreed. It's interesting since I follow Viz/Jump on Twitter and curious to see what comments are like on S8... apparently a fanbase exists, but I'm pretty sure it's only those 5 people :x I just... don't see what they see in it.

It's one of those right now I'd feel kinda okay recommending the first volume, maybe the second, but then like... what else even is there? Once you're past Hachimaru nominally starting on his quest I just... there's honestly nothing to latch onto, and even the bit beforehand is just... comfy, more than it is exciting, really.

I just liked the disabled kid getting to go outside and see the world for the first time; misadventures ensuing when he met people. It was nice while it lasted.
 

IzzyRX

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
5,816
I wonder if it's already cancelled and they're giving him a chance to end it on X chapters.
My little cousin in Japan said no one in his class reads that, only Demon Slayer.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,155
Toronto
Seriously, that the idea of a space samurai battle royale is somehow wasted is honestly fascinating just in terms of how you mess that up.
To be fair, you don't really see that type of arc until a manga hits its stride, because of the large number of chapters it needs to span. You keep it in monster of the week mode or short character introduction/building arcs until then. But really, he should have saved it until the manga hit that point.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,018
To be fair, you don't really see that type of arc until a manga hits its stride, because of the large number of chapters it needs to span. You keep it in monster of the week mode or short character introduction/building arcs until then. But really, he should have saved it until the manga hit that point.

The bolded is certainly one thing you can lay against it.

Though equally, if one must do it this early, well... there's ways to do it better. Like, as a quick point of reference, I decided to go back and check just where exactly Dragon Ball - template of most modern shonen - was at around the same chapter count, since it too made its big tournament arc - the tournament arc - its second major story arc.

So in Chapter 33 of Samurai 8, we have wrapped up this whole shebang, including the reveal that the tournament was being used by the forces of evil for some nefarious end that redirects the story to dealing with that instead.

In Chapter 33 of Dragon Ball, Goku and Krillin have just arrived.

Even if you count it in terms of from when each arc started - chapter 17 for Samurai 8, chapter 24 for Dragon Ball - by 16 chapters in (to match Samurai 8 being at chapter 33), Dragon Ball was still resolving Goku vs Giran, aka round 4 of the quarter finals.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,762
Toronto, ON
After this and the failure of stuff like Beast Children (bog standard sports story) and Tokyo Shinobi Squad (bog standard action manga) should really send a signal to Jump.
 

ScoobsJoestar

Member
May 30, 2019
4,071
After this and the failure of stuff like Beast Children (bog standard sports story) and Tokyo Shinobi Squad (bog standard action manga) should really send a signal to Jump.

Isn't Tokyo Shinobi Squad the one that starts out by going "Tokyo has gone to shit because of immigrants fuck immigration and globalization and stuff"? I remember reading that and going "...Okay. That's uh, alright." (I admittedly didn't get too far into it so maybe the premise is not as bad as it seemed?)
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,762
Toronto, ON
Isn't Tokyo Shinobi Squad the one that starts out by going "Tokyo has gone to shit because of immigrants fuck immigration and globalization and stuff"? I remember reading that and going "...Okay. That's uh, alright." (I admittedly didn't get too far into it so maybe the premise is not as bad as it seemed?)

Huh...I know what you're talking about, can't remember how it was phrased, but it's something like "globalization has brought crime to Japan". There might be something in there about immigration, but I can't recall exactly. Stuff like immigration or anything never comes up in the actual story, it's just the typical nakama/training arc/fighting bad guys type shit.
 

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,498
Isn't Tokyo Shinobi Squad the one that starts out by going "Tokyo has gone to shit because of immigrants fuck immigration and globalization and stuff"? I remember reading that and going "...Okay. That's uh, alright." (I admittedly didn't get too far into it so maybe the premise is not as bad as it seemed?)
That attitude basically completely disappears after the first chapter, lol. The protagonist is presented as friendly to people from other cultures and makes a point of knowing several languages.

It just ended up not having compelling villains or stories.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,655
Agravity Boys just reminds me of Level E. I have no idea whether I mean that as a compliment.

Just started to read Agravity Boys. I remember hearing about the story idea and was super super cautious but it's actually really funny and they did actually poke fun at the idea in the first chapter 1.
 

AoM

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,293
Even The Zombie Hinomaru Zumou sold way more than that per volume and there were always questions about it's ongoing survival. I liked that manga but it certainly wasn't performing well if it sells 9,500 that's deader than dead territory.
Wouldn't say way more, but Zumo was at least ranking well in the ToC and doing well with magazine readers.

Definitely not good to be subpar with both.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,603
After this and the failure of stuff like Beast Children (bog standard sports story) and Tokyo Shinobi Squad (bog standard action manga) should really send a signal to Jump.

Lots of stuff lately just have... no direction. Double Taisei was another, and then Yui Kamio changed genres halfway through :p Hell Warden I was having fun with, but cancelled. Saiyuki started getting somewhere (so, so slow at first), but cancelled.

Ever since SJ announced their $2 subs, I've been reading everything new, since hey, I don't need to read 200+ chapters to catch up with the brand new stuff. I've seen just sooo much lacking in these new series, with only Chainsaw Man really coming out of the current rut. It's unique, stylistic, different, but not bland at all. So much lately has felt very cookie-cutter. S8 is another. I don't see it lasting past say, 50 chapters. Depends how much they want to take a loss on this >_> That marketing push couldn't have been cheap (and with little payoff).
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
Wouldn't say way more, but Zumo was at least ranking well in the ToC and doing well with magazine readers.

Definitely not good to be subpar with both.
By that I mean it was at consistent around double 9.5k. It's normal range was in the 20-30k.

9.5k is a rather substantial drop from that when you take into account profit margins.

After this and the failure of stuff like Beast Children (bog standard sports story) and Tokyo Shinobi Squad (bog standard action manga) should really send a signal to Jump.
It won't send any message. Bog standard action manga and bog standard sports shounens have been failing in Jump for decades. it's jump's normal state of being due to Jumps high burn rate. The magazine has always thrown anything at a wall and almost anythin that's not an immediate success gets killed quickly. As long as they occasionally get a KnY and MHA the numbers game they've been playing will continue.

KnY is a huge success though (biggest in a decade for Jump probably) so I imagine they're reasonably happy overall.
 
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