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Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,172
Greater Vancouver
Maybe some clarification of my specific situation will help you understand where I'm coming from better.

I was raised in Dayton in conservative Christian private schools by a conservative Christian family with "traditional family values," and I believed in them.

I am ashamed of the actions I took during that time in my life. Non-white people made me nervous when I was a kid, even into high school. I was heavy into guns and gun culture, and wanted to go shooting with my Dad every weekend. I was stuck in that echo chamber, eating up every word. My mother had been cowed to the point that she was afraid to speak up. I thought gun control was a government conspiracy, designed to funnel us all into a box and make us into slaves.

Then I went to college.

I was called out all the time, and I had friends that were becoming more liberal calling me out on my bullshit. At first I was angry, but over time I started to see the real truth of the matter. I started to understand that yes, there is a gun problem in America. Racism does exist, and oh my god I am a racist. Immigrants are NOT the cause of our problems after all. The evidence to me was overwhelming.

I was a bad person, and I was complicit.

It took me literal years to change my behaviors, and my thought patterns. If I had just been cut off, I'd still be in that alt-right hellscape, yelling into the echo chamber about how fragile my whiteness is. When I sit down with my Dad and talk to him about this stuff, I'm trying to get him out of the echo chamber. I do not go to family events, because I've become somewhat of a "black sheep" for having "communist brainwashing" driven into my head by a "socialist college."

I helped my Mom realize that she needed to divorce my Dad finally, too. Quite a bit of that is because of how nasty he had gotten over Trump and his politics. She's thriving without him, and she gets most of my support. I see my Dad maybe once a month, and there's always an argument and a debate, but I can see it slowly wearing him down. He sent me a text today asking me to help him understand Incels, because he'd never heard of them before. I can't just let my Dad slip back into that echo chamber and keep spewing hate.
The people directly affected by these attitudes can't go on living their lives being told they need to be patient for some bigot to learn some basic fucking empathy. They didn't sign up to be someone else's guide to basic emotional growth.

If these people wanna cut these assholes loose, they have every justification in doing so.

If you want to keep hoping someone in your family can change, god be with you. But that's your family. You can't expect someone who already has to endure this shit all their lives to care any more about one hate-monger vs. the next. It's fucking exhausting.
 

LProtagonist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,576
Where? I haven't seen any reports pick this up.
I meant people stumbling upon it and talking about it, and then being picked up by places like heavy.com which causes it to spread more. I don't think it's hit traditional news yet. If you go through that though, you'll find some pictures that look exactly like the person in other pictures released.
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,688
Reno
So... it's pretty much a military assault rifle in all but name and easily customized to be only slightly less devastating than the genuine article.

Assault rifles-but-not-really. 100-round drum barrels. How can people with the power to actually change gun laws look at this stuff and not think there is no event in which a civilian needs this much firepower? Even ignoring the political climate in the US right now how can anyone feel safe leaving the house when guns like that are legal? What a timeline.

It's an assault rifle. The AR-15 doesn't exist if the original ArmaLite AR-15 wasn't created, and then modified to become the M16/M4, and then modified again to make it legal for civilians. Those modifications just change it enough to make it legal for civilians to own, it doesn't change the fact that it has the exact same capabilities (minus burst, which is actually less deadly then semi due to the decrease in accuracy).

Those distractions (it's not an assault rifle because it's semi only is a big one) are just that, distractions.

It doesn't change the fact that the AR-15 is a gun that comes from a line of guns that were designed to kill people efficiently in combat. Just because it's had burst capabilities removed, doesn't negate the fact that it's an assault rifle.
 

notsol337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
366
The people directly affected by these attitudes can't go on living their lives being told they need to be patient for some bigot to learn some basic fucking empathy. They didn't sign up to be someone else's guide to basic emotional growth.

If these people wanna cut these assholes loose, they have every justification in doing so.

I completely agree. If it negatively affects your mental health, then kick them out. If they're toxic to you, kick them out. If they're telling you you're a race traitor, communist, or anything else they think is offensive, get rid of them. There's no reason to keep a toxic person around if they're hurting you.

What I don't agree with is that anyone trying to do so for any reason is a complicit nazi. Lots of them are a lost cause, and the only way forward is to talk amongst ourselves and raise better children as the generations change. Some people just don't recognize the trap, so you can show them the door. It's up to them to step through it, and up to you to decide when it's time to close the door.
 

Orin_linwe

Member
Nov 26, 2017
706
Malmoe, Sweden.
He sent me a text today asking me to help him understand Incels, because he'd never heard of them before. I can't just let my Dad slip back into that echo chamber and keep spewing hate.

It's probably way too much of a culture-shock, but Natalie Wynn's video on Incels is honestly so good - in the way it both describes the phenomeon itself, and also provides autobiograpical insight for why it's alluring - that it might be something to consider showing your dad.

It's probably not going to "work", but on the other hand, people can sometimes surprise you, once their guard is lowered.

 

HeySeuss

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,845
Ohio
I swear I read that some judge said he couldn't delete his tweets because they need to be kept for records.
This is actually correct. His twitter represents the White House, which makes all of his tweets public records and he's not supposed to delete them. Unfortunately the public records law doesn't give anyone the right to sue for damages or termination of employment if something is done improperly like this. So essentially he can do whatever he wants.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
Those pictures on the heavy.com article of the shooter and his sister are eerie as hell considering she was one of the victims.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,353
Something tells me that won't matter very much...

What's going to be their argument? That leftists can shoot up places as well? Is that really a good argument? That seems like even more reason to have gun control since it's not like anyone thought this was just restricted to one party. And it's not like any of that changes anything about the Texas shooting in which you have an open white supremacists, outlining his love for Trump, his hatred of Mexicans and then driving hours in order to shoot up a plkace where he thought he'd find a lot of them.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
Judging from the selfie posted in February, this is 100% him. Which is, uh, maybe why you should wait for confirmation of motive instead of making assumptions like 99% of people in this thread did?

Now the right is gonna have a field day with this regardless of whether he was politically motivated or not.
The right has field days with crap like this regardless, so not too worried about how they will spin and minimize the gun violence situation.
 

ChuckXL

Banned
May 3, 2018
2,448
If this is for real, and it means what I think you're saying, shit's about to get really interesting, isn't it? A united feeling online might get completely and utterly derailed.
This particular shooter could possibly be a "Democrat". But he shouldn't have those weapons and that ammo. No one should. That's the issue in this particular case (so far anyway, still not knowing the motive).
 
Feb 9, 2019
2,470
Gacha Hell
It's an assault rifle. The AR-15 doesn't exist if the original ArmaLite AR-15 wasn't created, and then modified to become the M16/M4, and then modified again to make it legal for civilians. Those modifications just change it enough to make it legal for civilians to own, it doesn't change the fact that it has the exact same capabilities (minus burst, which is actually less deadly then semi due to the decrease in accuracy).

Those distractions (it's not an assault rifle because it's semi only is a big one) are just that, distractions.

It doesn't change the fact that the AR-15 is a gun that comes from a line of guns that were designed to kill people efficiently in combat. Just because it's had burst capabilities removed, doesn't negate the fact that it's an assault rifle.

Oh I agree. While I can't say I'm all that knowledgeable about guns, I'm aware of the controversy around the AR-15 and I'm firmly on the it's a freaking assault rifle camp. Was just referencing the (weak) excuse people use to justify making it available to civilians.
 

notsol337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
366
It's probably way too much of a culture-shock, but Natalie Wynn's video on Incels is honestly so good - in the way it both describes the phenomeon itself, and also provides autobiograpical insight for why it's alluring - that it might be something to consider showing your dad.

It's probably not going to "work", but on the other hand, people can sometimes surprise you, once their guard is lowered.



He's shocked there's an entire sub-culture of men that feel women owe them something, and he didn't know about it. I will send him this, but I don't know if he'll watch it. Thanks.
 

Magni

Member
Reading that Heavy article, I wouldn't be surprised if he had an account here.

Targeting his sister and a racially diverse entertainment district doesn't look like a leftist attack... some people are just crazy (which is why we shouldn't have assault weapons and large capacity magazines just laying around waiting to be legally bought by whomever).
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
Reading that Heavy article, I wouldn't be surprised if he had an account here.

Targeting his sister and a racially diverse entertainment district doesn't look like a leftist attack... some people are just crazy (which is why we shouldn't have assault weapons and large capacity magazines just laying around waiting to be legally bought by whomever).
Please don't assume "crazy". Just because someone decides to murder people and we're unsure of the motive doesn't meant they were mentally ill.
 

Soundscream

Member
Nov 2, 2017
9,232
Here's the differences between the AR-15 (the civilian model) and the M-4 (the smaller, military equivalent).

The M-4 is capable shooting a single semi-automatic and a 3 round burst (where one pull of the trigger fires three bullets). The civilian AR-15 can only shoot semi automatic (one trigger pull equals one bullet, but the gun auto chambers the next round).

The common thing you hear is that the AR-15 isn't an assault rifle because it doesn't shoot full auto. People like to ignore the fact that members of the military rarely shoot on full auto, as it decreases your accuracy and wastes ammo. I was in the military for 12 years and the only time I ever shot burst was in training just to see what it could do. Its not something you want to rely on in a firefight as it will decrease your accuracy and waste your ammo. When I was in Afghanistan, I carried 4 magazines with 30 rounds each. Those 120 rounds would be the difference between me living and dying if I got in a firefight (thankfully, it never happened). You want to make every bullet count, burst mode takes that away

The civilian AR-15 is a modified version of the M-16 to make it so that you can't swap the parts that enable the three round burst mode. Colt specifically designed the AR-15 so the lower receiver from an M16*/M-4 can't be used on an AR-15 (although it's not that hard to get around if you know what you're doing) The vast majority of other accessories, including magazines, are swappable

Other then that, they're the exact same weapon. These guns are efficient at what they're designed to do because they were designed with the intent to kill people in a combat situation. They're designed to allow the user to fire a lot of shots off in a short amount of time, empty the clip/reload, and get back to firing as quickly as possible while in a firefight. The last thing you want to do is take to long to reload if someone is shooting at you. That's why the AR-15 has been the weapon of choice in shootings like this. You can carry a lot of ammo, it's quick to reload and it allows you to get a lot of shots off in a short amount of time.

The AR-15 is an assault rifle and anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.

And yes, the dipshits who treat their guns like an extension of their penis are out of their minds.

*The M-16 is very similar to the M4, just with a bigger barrell and is a bit heavier.
Slight correction M16 is semi/3 round burst, M4 can go full auto.
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349


.@DrewGriffinCNN has spoken to classmates of the Dayton gunman who say he was once removed from school for having a "kill list" and a "rape list."

Drew also reports that female friends of the gunman say he was threatening to them, especially when he was turned down for a date

But he liked Socialism so #BothSides, I guess.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,761

Magni

Member
Please don't assume "crazy". Just because someone decides to murder people and we're unsure of the motive doesn't meant they were mentally ill.

By crazy I meant psychopathic, which is a mental illness, but I could have been more specific.

You have to be a psychopath to murder outside of a momentary loss control (crime of passion). He didn't just kill his sister in a fit of rage. He planned and brought weapons of war looking to murder as many people as possible.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,353
A sociopath. But also an incel.

True, but I think the big discussion point is the incel angle due to the other shootings and mass killings that happened for the same reason. The Sante Fe school shooting from last year was a result of a guy getting turned down by a classmate. The Toronto van attack was another incel. You've got dudes that think women owe them sex and when they don't give them it their e response is to go on a killing spree.
 

Dragonyeuw

Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,372
As a non-american I don't know what the response is to this other than a radical mass movement(march) on congress or the white house. This is a threat to the security of your country, if you can't go into a fucking walmart without worrying about whether some deranged lunatic is gonna open fire on innocent people. How many more lives need to be lost? I just...can't wrap my head around nothing coming out of these situations beyond a few days talk and then its quiet till the next shooting, rince repeat. This is horrifying and sickening.
 

AfropunkNyc

Member
Nov 15, 2017
3,958
Lets see... el paso area was heavily populated by Hispanics and that area of Dayton had a large number of African Americans. I see a trend. White supremacist group at foot.